Batmafia!!! Game Over

[Baldrick]

Well the only reason I have for the first sentence is really that I might have been a little rash. I guess some words pinged me as weird and I didn't like that...

Would you mind elaborating on that? Were the words that pinged you the ones that made you think she was being overly cautious? Did her recent posts make you change your opinion on her earlier posts, or did you just get a stronger read off the recent posts?

Well, she didn't really claim their results from N1 until like right now, her other posts were just... There. It was just to signify that she was here. There really wasn't much to pick off of it.

What reasons can you think of that she might make barebones posts? Would those reasons make her more likely to be town or scum? Given what we know about her night results now, what do you think of the way she claimed it on Day 2?

Alright, I take the blame for that. Usually the times I get to post is before school, which is a pretty hectic time to do it as I have a limited time to do it, and after school, which being stuffed with homework and by the time I get back I'm prodded or w/e. The reason I didn't vote was because I wanted Clarinets to have a time to defend himself before I was sure I had something good on him. Usually by the time votes end I'm not here. So... I apologize.

Were you aware of how much time was left in the phase? You first asked him for reads on Day 1, what made you decide to do so? You had to prompt him again two days after that, how did that affect the answer he gave you?

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

REALLY grossed out by dreamer coming in here with nothing to say about tg

elis disgusting comin in here with a bunch of reads with zero substantiation. coattail riding and shitting on me is cool but thats what you pulled on me last time you rolled scum so are you going to play like scum or play mafia and give out content?

[Tiny_Manakete]

Would you mind elaborating on that? Were the words that pinged you the ones that made you think she was being overly cautious? Did her recent posts make you change your opinion on her earlier posts, or did you just get a stronger read off the recent posts?

Not exactly, although her words were worded slightly weirdly which made me jump to that conclusion. And her recent posts just made me give her a stronger read. I still find them a bit strange but I'm still taking into account that she is still new to mafia.

What reasons can you think of that she might make barebones posts? Would those reasons make her more likely to be town or scum? Given what we know about her night results now, what do you think of the way she claimed it on Day 2?

Looking through her ISO, I can believe that she might have been afraid to give her entire opinion on everyone. As a result I'm more inclined to believe that she is scum. The way she said it on day two bothered me, but we now know that Mancer is an Announcer with a PR. Also, we know that he was roleblocked on N1, giving it why Sniper had no results that night. It still doesn't necessarily clear him of which side he is on.

Were you aware of how much time was left in the phase? You first asked him for reads on Day 1, what made you decide to do so? You had to prompt him again two days after that, how did that affect the answer he gave you?

I was mildly aware of it, but even so I still was out of time to make a good post. I just didn't like the fact he skimmed over my question and perhaps a couple of others, and even so he didn't answer it fully.

Also to answer Refa's question, I only have one, which is Sniper Knight, with the reasons above. [RE: 2nd bolded.] I'd like to say it is still a gut feeling, though I'm slowly believing she is.

[Baldrick]

@Tiny: If Sniper's claim on D2 bothered you, why did it feel genuine to you?

Were you planning to come back to vote before the end of the phase?

If you had to guess, what do you think Sniper's motive for claiming and stopping Mancer's lynch was?

[Tiny_Manakete]

Would anyone like to hear my results/actions from the last two nights...?

@Tiny: If Sniper's claim on D2 bothered you, why did it feel genuine to you?

Were you planning to come back to vote before the end of the phase?

If you had to guess, what do you think Sniper's motive for claiming and stopping Mancer's lynch was?

I was coming back to vote before the end of the phase, but then again I had some hiccups towards the end if you really wanted to know my mother took my tablet away for the whole time nearing the end of D2 and thus how I ended up having a wagon.

Her motive? I can't speak for others but I can only guess that she truly did believe her results.

RE: Bolded: It's because they at least claimed, and that was really the most and only information that she gave. She also targeted me N2, which I can't blame her since I was extremely absent for most of that day.

[Baldrick]

@JB: Please explain why if you only had limited time, your first priority was to talk about Izhuark.

@Refa: I still think Mancer's play is indicative of himself than his alignment. His cases aren't good and he misinterpreted quite a few things, but from what I remember scum!Mancer is more careful and less confrontational. I also thought Sniper wouldn't have claimed the way they did unless they had some substantial result, but I was wrong about that.

I think Blitz was killed because the flipped doctor protected him on a no-kill night

@YOLO: Could you link the game you're talking about? I only ask because I can't see any other way to get a read on Jelly.

[Baldrick]

@Tiny: I wouldn't have thought it was time to claim yet, but given the state of the wagons so far I think you will need to claim this phase (especially since you've already hinted at having results).

If you may be denied internet access at short notice I would claim ASAP

I meant what motive she'd have to stop Mancer from being lynched. I think that if she simply believed Mancer was clear from her results she wouldn't have been vague about it on D2.

It's because they at least claimed, and that was really the most and only information that she gave.

I'm sorry, I'm not quite sure what you mean by this.

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

@baldrick greatest hits. he spent that game giving town yolo a hard time citing my anti town playstyle with little analysis as hes doing here. the happy go lucky shtick does nothing for me

[Sniper Knight]

I was being vague about the tracking because I wasn't sure if repeating PMs word for word is considered quoting, and therefore against the rules, or if quoting is only considered as such when the quote box with timestamps and all is used. I'm thinking the latter, but I wanted to be on the safe side. The way the PM was worded implied that no action, successful or unsuccessful, had taken place. (I'm the Tracker, by the way. In case that wasn't obvious already.) I'm holding off on voting since we managed to lynch the Doctor and the Cop on the first two tries. I haven't finished reading everything from Day 1, but right now I'm thinking that Dreamer > Tiny >>> Refa > everyone else > Mancer > Me. The ambivalent way Dreamer worded her opinion on Tiny is kinda suspicious, so I'm thinking that they're scumbuddies. She's read pretty much everyone as neutral, perhaps to avoid making enemies? I'd also comment on her passive posting style but I'm doing pretty much the same thing so... Tiny's been focusing on her null reads and isn't really talking about her suspicions. Refa's post restriction seems a little convenient, and not as consistent as it could be, but I might just be paranoid; if it came down to it I wouldn't lynch him.

[Baldrick]

That doesn't make sense to me because it's easy to paraphrase it (like you just did). At best, the wording was ambiguous, at worst you were actively misleading us by telling us Mancer was cleared.

Part of the reason the doc was lynched was because people were too slow to put a vote down, so you really should.

What about Dreamer's Tiny read is different to her other reads that makes you think they're buddies?

[Mitsuki]

Balcerzak has been prodded

Good thing only one person had to be prodded [Votals 3.2]
Tiny Goddess (5): Yoloswag, Gaius, Baldrick, Green Poet, Elieson
Baldrick (1): JBCWK

Not voting: Balcerzak, Tiny Goddess, Mancer, Dreamer, Sniper Knight, Refa

35 hours until the Batdivorce! It takes 7 votes to lynch someone.

[MancerNecro]

Hi all, I'm feeling better so I will be going through the thread right now for some reads and stuff. Stay tuned for the Mancer-content-post.

[MancerNecro]

Disclaimer: I've only read the thread from Day 3 (cause lazy).

I agree with Dreamer's post that Sniper could have easily faked the tracker report given the announcement that I had made last night. I also dislike how Sniper immediately claims that I am cleared from a tracker report that is non-indicative of alignment or anything.

##Vote: Sniper Knight

I will be going back to ISO Sniper Knight in a bit to read up regarding the circumstances of his post.

I agree with Refa that scum killed Proto and Proto killed Izhuark. The main reason being the fact that town doesn't seem to have any killing roles and I don't think Proto would kill himself. Proto has also been pretty town-like so far so I believe that that is the main reason why Proto was killed. I will also be going through Proto in a bit to see if Proto has had any strong cases against possible scum players because that is another reason why Proto could have been killed. Remember that to scum, Proto is more or less a town player because of the fact that scum would not know that he is an ITP.

Lord Gaius still pings me off as a gut read but I have no idea how to put that into words right now so this is just a minor issue for me but hey, the other person I had a gut read on flipped ITP/anti-town so maybe you guys should trust my gut.

Dreamer/Green Poet/Refa are more or less confirmed town in my books.

[MancerNecro]

ISOed Corinthian and Sniper Knight: So little posts... I find it weird how he immediately came up and claimed that I was town when his tracker action should have implicated me as scum instead. It feels like he was expecting me to be lynched and was hoping to claim town-credit by stating that I was town from his role?

ISOed Blitz and Proto: I didn't get anything much out of this except for Blitz's almost sole scum read on Dreamer. *sigh* Why does mafia have to be so hard?

[Baldrick]

Lynch priotity is Tiny > Sniper > JB.

Tiny's response doesn't change my opinion one way or the other, there's nothing wrong with it but it's more guarded than I"d expect town to be in this situation. Sniper's confidence on the Mancer clear stands out from the rest of their play and doesn't feel like a natural conclusion from the information they had. JB seems content to let me ignore him, he should be more forceful in making me talk so he can develop his read one way or the other. His other reads are similarly neglected; he analysed Sniper claim's D2, decided he needed to know what Sniper was claiming, then just commented on it when they did fullclaim. He said he was waiting on a Tiny post, then ignored it in favour of useless killspec.

[Jaybee]

@JB: Please explain why if you only had limited time, your first priority was to talk about Izhuark.

it was the only thing explicitly directed to me, and i posted at 6:24am after about 5 minutes of reading the thread.

JB seems content to let me ignore him, he should be more forceful in making me talk so he can develop his read one way or the other. His other reads are similarly neglected; he analysed Sniper claim's D2, decided he needed to know what Sniper was claiming, then just commented on it when they did fullclaim. He said he was waiting on a Tiny post, then ignored it in favour of useless killspec.

i guess keeping my vote on you + saying that nothing had changed about my view on you (iirc after you made another post) is a little too passive. oh well.

Sniper claim was important for clearing Mancer, and because he claimed Tracker we now know that Mancer isn't officially cleared by Sniper's results alone. See above for why I ignored Tiny post.

brb shower, haven't read through anything else yet

[Jaybee]

About 85% of Baldrick's game has been tunneling the shit out of TG. Says he doesn't want to lynch TG without a claim (though I'll let the D2 consolidation vote slide given the circumstances), then starts D3 by instantly voting TG and claiming he wants consolidation. After 1 nothing post, rapid fires 6 questions at TG in 2 posts, encourages people to vote TG because of our D2 mistake regarding Clarinets, then... his reasoning for keeping his vote on Tiny feels weak? Saying that Tiny feels "guarded" doesn't feel like a concrete enough reason (especially when you say that "there's nothing wrong with it")

Speaking of Tiny, would like a concrete opinion from her on Sniper. I can't tell what she's trying to say regarding Sniper... at all? Feels a bit like she's scrambling.

---

Sniper sounds like newbtown to me.

I'm holding off on voting since we managed to lynch the Doctor and the Cop on the first two tries.

this is 0% a scum statement. this sounds more like inexperienced town who's afraid to lynch a power role.

---

I agree with Dreamer's post that Sniper could have easily faked the tracker report given the announcement that I had made last night. I also dislike how Sniper immediately claims that I am cleared from a tracker report that is non-indicative of alignment or anything.

??? Are you saying that Sniper faked his claim that he was roleblocked N2? Part about Sniper saying you were cleared can be explained by a lack of understanding of what a Tracker is (admittedly, not the best defence), and WRT gaining towncred, I said here that it wasn't likely that he would do it to gain towncred.

also voting the guy that said you were cleared = damn son

---

no change in vote. i see no reason to swap from baldrick yet.

I will... go look at Tiny and Dreamer's interactions with each other soon.

[Dreamer]

Urghh. Let’s talk about TG

I understand what people mean by saying that she only gives null reads. And i believe that they are right about that. However, it is the exact same reason that Clarinets was lynched. And because he was a town, I think that the argument “null reads” is not very important anymore.

( Maybe there were later some better arguments, but i do believe that “null reads” were still a big reason.)

Her answers to the different questions from Baldrick and Green Poet were oké. It still don’t give me an idea who she thinks is town and scum.

But this made me a little bit worried:

Would anyone like to hear my results/actions from the last two nights...?I

People were already voting on her, so i understand that she tries to get more time. But i don't think a hammer will fall that fast.

So i'm wondered, because she would also buy more time if she role claimed, so why did she say it on this way?

Is the role important and is she scared to get night-killed if she says it?

Is it a role or information. that can be for both sides? ( I'm inclined to believe this one btw )

Does she need the time to find the perfect rol to claim?

Let's see if i can start a discussion

[Refa]

It could always use more Santa Hats, you know.

Drats, you're right. Time to request 50 more Santa Hats be added onto my avatar. Okay, but seriously (well, as serious as mafia posts can get anyways), onto the analysis (I'm not going to be taking other peoples' cases on her into account for this, so sorry if I'm being redundant). I'm spoilering this because it's pretty lengthy and it's my post, I do what I want (also please look through it because it's not just a meta thing, I'm actually going to be analyzing her posts because I was pretty much writing off her slot before LG started casing her).

[spoiler=Tiny Goddess Analysis]

So I'm going to start with her first content post in both games. It's worth noting that in MSM, she made a few more posts before that point. She talked about how she was tempted to vote for Rapier before uh...not doing so.

Pretty much this

I'm almost tempted to vote for Rapier but I'll hold off for now.

I'm just trying to vote a little wisely, instead of just attempting to what I did blindly.

This is partially what I was referring too with earlier when I mentioned that her play in this game mirrored her play there, wherein she was really hesitant to make a case on someone until she was called out for it. Anyways, moving on...

I still heart you < 3

Catching up on everything now. So I apologize for my lateness...

Would not consider voting Izuhark. Yeah, drawing attention to himself is bad, but there has to be a reason why he's doing it, plus with his, uh 'humor' if his role is as he says. Don't find anything scummy with roleclaiming early; even if his role is bad and he's telling the truth. His claim seems to be pretty genuine, however odd and random as it may be. Eh, but that information could be used against him. That said, I don't get the wagon on Izuhark. It was just because he was attempting to post in a humorous manner, which is annoying, but eh.

Mancer seems to be a bit iffy, but his case isn't that much to nitpick about. He probably wants to get more information, which can be either an advantage or disadvantage on both sides, but I still don't feel any bad vibes from him.

Diego seems to be the one I'm the most mildly concerned about. His unvote seems to be from a lack of confidence. If he really wanted to make an impression, then he should have other cases to worry about and be voting for them instead of backing away and leaving us in the dark without a lead to follow. Also I don't like how he's telling investigative roles to scan Izuhark because of what he says his role tells him to do. However seeing that he wanted to get out of the RVS, I can get what he's saying slightly. Getting a slight bad gut feeling. His vote was a little silly, that's all.

Getting null on other players.

Sorry for the lateness. My brother was in the hospital and I didn't feel like responding for a while.I knew from the last post that after I sent it I was immediately regretting that decision. I was too quick to jump on the vote. Maybe a beginner's mistake on my part and I looked a little blunt. But then again, it's my first game and I'm probably missing a couple of points here.But then again, we are trying to get a lead of who may or may not be scum. Me not telling my reads might end up hurting town... and end up lynching a role that could be useful for town.

Trying to lynch an inactive player doesn't really mean they're scum, but for some reason, I can't really see Splodge as scum either. His posts are pretty good, and they bring up a couple of good points. Poly is only basing his town role simply by saying 'how many times he rolled town.' Not a really good defense, in my opinion. However I still need to see a little more before I can get a good read.

With that said, for now I'll ##Vote: Polydeuces

I'm not the only one who finds it funny how both of the posts start out almost identically, right? So yeah, this is what else I was referring too when I mentioned that her posts were very similar in style and composition. Both of them feature townreads on people who were the point of contention, which she defended adequately in both games (yeah, the iffy wording irks me but in the end they both do have definitive opinions which is all that matters). As for the scumreads, she has a vote on the biggest wagon that's sheeped from other peoples' reasoning. Even disregarding meta, there's nothing here that bothers me (the most dubious part is the sheeping and I don't really view that as scummy in and of itself).

Shit I didn't mean to get prodded ;~; Sorry

Seeing as Diego isn't posting anytime soon, I guess I should focus more on my null reads. The only reason I said that was because I simply skimmed their posts and I didn't see anything wrong at the time. But seeing that I have a little more free time on my hands, I can get to work on some other players and read their posts more thoroughly.

Dreamer is another one that I'm also feeling mild scum vibes from. She's playing it extremely cautious, but it doesn't look like she's afraid to get her opinion out. I think it was her vote on Bal that catches me off guard. We've gotten out of RVS but, even so, she placed a vote on him without any reasoning behind it... Not necessarily scummy, but odd. Her Green Poet vote isn't much to sneeze about, as she did provide nice evidence to back herself, but I think it was a sudden shift in her play. A null read, from what I think it was leaning town imo, but suddenly scumreading her, which is confusing. The only problem I have lynching her is that she's new, and some words might not get across to us, and Diego is a much more higher priority than her. Extremely null, leaning scum.

Clarinets, I understand you were almost subbed out, but is there anything in particular about your null readings that lean more towards Town or scum? Any two of them you think is more likely to flip town or scum?

MancerNecro, now that I've had more time to analyze more of his recent posts, I can see why there's a little ickyness in them. He wasn't getting much praise for his Proto vote, backed off and fell on his other scumread. He seemed to have his eyes set on LG for a while, but after supposedly misinterpreting a small portion of Proto's sentence which probably shouldn't have been worried about imo and still labeling him as such although on a lesser scale, he goes back to LG. Seems more like a case of self perseverance than anything else atm... Or maybe I'm over-analyzing things.

Also: If he supposedly 'whiteknighted' him, then why does he find this scummy? I don't recall ever seeing a post like that...

My lynch order would probably go like: Great Lord Diego->Dreamer+MancerNecro->Everyone else

So I'm assuming that SB can't communicate, at all using quotes? I'll try to explain my vote in the best way possible.

I think my logic at the time was that he was basing it on his luck. I wasn't necessarily voting on Poly for his inactivity, but there was something about that one line that seemed a bit... Weird. I was planning on trying to read more if he planned to post, but at that time, the wagon on Poly increased and then the mishammer happened. I didn't expect that sudden mislynch. My vote was probably a little rushed [maybe because of the nearing time limit or the stress from my brother], but I thought that he would be the safest vote at the time. I didn't want to waffle, if that's what you guys call it.

READS

TOWN

-Refa

-Splodge

-SB

Refa and Splodge have been contributing a lot to and posted frequently in the game and has posted meaningful points about their reads. Their posts are written into detail and not a single word has been left out. I can see them contributing to town by a lot. In SB's case, he's trying his best to communicate through ellipsis and quotes and contributes, which is extremely nice, as I can get a read out of him. Even if he has a vote on me, it's still a lead.

NULL

-Izuhark

-Clarinets

-Lord Gaius

I haven't seen them post a lot or I might have just accidentally skimmed through their posts. Er... I'm not sure who would be more town or scum. Clarinets appears to be much more open and honest and willing to help town, so he's more on a town side. Lord Gaius and Bakura... Well, I can't find much to pick out of Izuharks post other than the post towards Bakura, and I don't frankly agree with LG's Clarinets read... They're null for now...

SCUM

-Bakura

I have a small gut feeling, but after rereading their most recent posts, I think they're being a bit too defensive. That comment towards SB was a bit unnecessary if we're thinking he's still silenced, and we need all of the players' support to find the most scummy ones. Even if I'm one of the most suspicious ones atm. If he can only talk through a vote having a read who's the most scummy, then I think that's the best way he's helping.

Unfortunately, because Diego never posted after being cased (and she never got flak for her vote until later on), there's no equivalent to the followup reads that she had in MSM. Actually, I just noticed that she never posted her townreads here. It's not...scummy, but it's kind of a weird shift. Tiny, why didn't you post your townreads? Who are you even townreading and why? Actually, I feel like her post is more productive here than it was in MSM. There's a lot more analysis being done on Dreamer and Mancer than she did for Bakura in the previous game. Again, really the only thing bothering me here is the wording. She just seems a lot less confident for whatever reason.

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=57975&page=19#entry4116957

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=57975&page=19#entry4117515

Two votes on me already? Man, I'm on a roll here. /sarcasm Mafia truly is a weird game.I'm sorry if I look suspicious, but that's really as honest as I can get. Only the scum read on Bakura is more of a gut read, and I don't know how to explain it so that it looks more... I don't know... The reads are newb reads since this is the first one and like in my earlier post I'll have to reread some things. These are just my honest opinions and I thought they explained my thoughts on the other players good enough. Really that's the only defense I have. But I'll try to change it in the near future.Sorry Splodge. I wanted to see what it was that bothered him the most about your play because he had a scumread on you. Since they said 'everything', I wanted to pick out the smaller parts so that I might actually have something to follow other than a gut read.

That said ...Hm... I'm not sure how to feel about this gutread on Bakura. In a way, I feel he seems more town now when I reread, but most of his reads are 'guts', and I have mixed feelings on it.

Probably the first thing about Tiny Goddess that legit bothers me. Her actual defenses are like whatever, but I really don't like "This is really the only defense I have. So if it isn't to your liking, that's fine... " because it feels like she's just given up. Granted, town can give up too but I dunno...it's just the way she did it that's bothering me. Do you not care if you get lynched?

Would anyone like to hear my results/actions from the last two nights...?I was coming back to vote before the end of the phase, but then again I had some hiccups towards the end if you really wanted to know my mother took my tablet away for the whole time nearing the end of D2 and thus how I ended up having a wagon.

Her motive? I can't speak for others but I can only guess that she truly did believe her results.

RE: Bolded: It's because they at least claimed, and that was really the most and only information that she gave. She also targeted me N2, which I can't blame her since I was extremely absent for most of that day.

With all of the millers... I don't know if I want to trust my one-shot...

I was a cop. As much as I want to believe it, the three, maybe a possible fourth Miller are kinda pulling me away from the result all together...

Hm...Hmm?

It's hard to compare these two because the circumstances were different (and her role is probably different too), but it's something that I'm going to keep in mind when she claims. Speaking of that, you really should claim now.

Overall: I'm not seeing the scum intent in her posts, other than that one part that I mentioned. I feel like she's getting wagoned because her waffly as fuck posting style is screaming "please scumread me" over her content actually being scummy. I want the people who are casing her to answer the following questions (I definitely don't agree with LG's/YOLO's cases now, I still remember GP's being pretty good so I'll check that out again to see if I missed something, and uh...yeah).

1) Where is the scum intent?

2) Where is the scum intent?

3) Where is the scum intent?

4) ????

5) Where is the scum intent?

Also sorry for not voting earlier, I was planning on getting this post done a lot sooner...like, 24 hours sooner. Then the endgame of the semester happened (and is still happening, for that matter) and now I'm dead inside. I still need to analyze all of the posts I've missed but yeah.

##Vote: MancerNecro

[Refa]

At the time, I felt as though I was making no headway in negotiating or agreeing with any of my scumreads (Dreamer, Clarinets, Mancer) on... anything. Knowing that many of the players in this game, like TG, Izuhark, and Dreamer, are relatively/completely new to SF mafia, I felt that it would help get the urgency of my message through if I specified that voting Clarinets was genuinely crucial to keep the game going for everyone, including them, should they be scum.

The wording is weird, I understand, as it involves trying to come to terms with scum on a rhetorical level. But considering that scum!GP would have just posted the message in the scumchat instead, I was confident enough that my motivations would not be misunderstood and that my saying "regardless of your alignment" would not distract from the focus of the situation.

What bothered me was less the practical applications of making such a post (I have no doubt that you wouldn't need to do so as scum) and more the intent that went into making it, as it read as you saying "I'm town but if you're scum, then you should vote along me anyways". That being said, I can buy you using such rhetoric to convey the urgency of your message, so dropping it.

1. Izhuark immediately joke-but-actually-seriously claims his role.

2. He kind of randomly accepts his death like w/e

3. He states he has visitor + PR.

4. Refa gets the most amazing PR and claims to have been visited.

I think his general style of play and the fact that Refa confirmed his role made it fairly obvious (not 100% guaranteed, I grant you that, but a mafia JoAT with visitor would have been... lol).

Um, I wouldn't know if Izhuark visited me (he didn't target me with the fruit vendor thing either). I got two PR's (which at the time I assumed to be from Izhuark, but apparently not) and a message, nothing more nothing less.

Oh, I lied in my big post about TG. There is something that really bothers me about her (and actually has scum intent in it) and that's that I've found a contradiction. TG, earlier you said you were scumreading Mancer and Dreamer. However, now you're only scumreading Sniper Knight. Why are Mancer and Dreamer no longer on your list? What changed WRT Sniper Knight?

@Refa: I still think Mancer's play is indicative of himself than his alignment. His cases aren't good and he misinterpreted quite a few things, but from what I remember scum!Mancer is more careful and less confrontational. I also thought Sniper wouldn't have claimed the way they did unless they had some substantial result, but I was wrong about that.

Not true. I agree that he tends to hold onto bad cases as town as well, but there's a definite difference in his play that people are missing. For one, he doesn't misrepresent peoples' content as town (sure, he may misinterpret peoples' content but he'll correct himself if needed) and he's being a lot more reactionary (like, in a way that comes across as hostile); his responses to people complaining about his LG and Proto cases in particular reads as him being backed into a corner and sticking to them simply so that they don't have more ammunition to use against him. Also disregarding his meta, something that's bothered me is that his opinions have never really changed throughout the entire game. As scum, it's very hard to fabricate a consistently evolving thought process and their reads tend to be more static as a result. That is...pretty much the case here.

I don't think Sniper clearing Mancer so easily is alignment indicative (honestly, it's more likely to be town over scum), but what I don't like about the slot is that he's basically coasting off of his claim and not providing any content or insight into the game whatsoever. I said I was nullreading him earlier but I did a quick ISO of his slot and he literally did nothing other than "clear" Mancer until I called him out on it. He's lower on my priority list than Mancer because I can see him doing some of the same things as town (although I doubt that he'd be lacking in content so much as town), but he's there.

What happened to Balcerzak anyways? I don't actually have any issues with his slot (actually, he was my strongest townread going into today) but it'd be kind of nice if it...existed (I know he said that he was going to busy, but it couldn't hurt to prod anyways).

I was being vague about the tracking because I wasn't sure if repeating PMs word for word is considered quoting, and therefore against the rules, or if quoting is only considered as such when the quote box with timestamps and all is used. I'm thinking the latter, but I wanted to be on the safe side. The way the PM was worded implied that no action, successful or unsuccessful, had taken place. (I'm the Tracker, by the way. In case that wasn't obvious already.) I'm holding off on voting since we managed to lynch the Doctor and the Cop on the first two tries. I haven't finished reading everything from Day 1, but right now I'm thinking that Dreamer > Tiny >>> Refa > everyone else > Mancer > Me. The ambivalent way Dreamer worded her opinion on Tiny is kinda suspicious, so I'm thinking that they're scumbuddies. She's read pretty much everyone as neutral, perhaps to avoid making enemies? I'd also comment on her passive posting style but I'm doing pretty much the same thing so... Tiny's been focusing on her null reads and isn't really talking about her suspicions. Refa's post restriction seems a little convenient, and not as consistent as it could be, but I might just be paranoid; if it came down to it I wouldn't lynch him.

Have you played other forum mafia games before (to clarify, this isn't me taking a shot at you and saying you suck, it's just something that I need to know)? Why is Dreamer scummier than Tiny if your read on her is purely an associative read that depends on the basis that Tiny is scum? I don't see what's wrong with making your null reads into actual reads, so I don't get your Tiny scumread. What was convenient about my PR yesterday (also 100% sure it was consistent because I didn't get any PM's from the mods...actually, I'm kind of curious as to what would have happened it I disobeyed the PR)?

I like that you're making an effort to get into the game but your priorities seem all over the place and your actual reasoning is more calling out bad play than finding scum intent (I mean, this is a trap that newer players fall into a lot of the time but it's scummy when combined with your mixed up priorities).

I agree with Dreamer's post that Sniper could have easily faked the tracker report given the announcement that I had made last night. I also dislike how Sniper immediately claims that I am cleared from a tracker report that is non-indicative of alignment or anything.

##Vote: Sniper Knight

I will be going back to ISO Sniper Knight in a bit to read up regarding the circumstances of his post.

Lord Gaius still pings me off as a gut read but I have no idea how to put that into words right now so this is just a minor issue for me but hey, the other person I had a gut read on flipped ITP/anti-town so maybe you guys should trust my gut.

Dreamer/Green Poet/Refa are more or less confirmed town in my books.

Fair enough on the first part. Honestly, I figured that Scum!Sniper would be a Tracker/Rolecop which is why he'd be okay with clearing you on D2 (or you could just be scumbuddies, but your interactions don't really point towards that).

What do you think of LG's content today? What do you think about his case on TG? Actually, what do you think about TG?

I'm glad that you're townreading me but why the fuck are you townreading me lol. After D1, I've been pretty consistently scumreading you throughout the whole game and it's very weird that you would find me townie for doing so.

i guess keeping my vote on you + saying that nothing had changed about my view on you (iirc after you made another post) is a little too passive. oh well.

Okay, this is the first thing that bothers me about you. Why were you content to make a passive case on Baldrick? Your actual elaboration itself is good (I'd sheep it) but I don't get why you didn't make it until you were called out.

[Tiny_Manakete]

Reading back for now, but I'm going to answer Refa's questions first.

Tiny, why didn't you post your townreads? Who are you even townreading and why?

That will be revealed when I claim... Seeing as I'm shit with town reads, I didn't bother.

Granted, town can give up too but I dunno...it's just the way she did it that's bothering me. Do you not care if you get lynched?

Not exactly. It's not that I've given up, but I haven't been feeling my best in this game, but I should at least defend myself before I truly give up.

Also to answer your other question: I did have a scum read on Mancer, I mentioned it at one point...? I wasn't clear on that.

OKAY TIME FOR THE ACTUAL CLAIM

I am a JoaT with a one-shot of both a watcher, decoy and doctor.

N1: I had watched Proto that night because I had a strong gut feeling that he would be the one most likely to be killed that night. Clarinets was the only one who visited him so I can very much confirm that he doctored him. I didn't say anything until now because I wasn't sure if I had enough information on him yet. That's why I asked him [Clarinets] those questions.

N2: I used my doctor role onto Refa, simply because he was still a strongest town read I had. In MSM, he had been killed pretty early in the game, and I was going with a mindset that he too was going to be next on this game, hence the reason why.

[Sniper Knight]

@ Mancer: provided I did misinterpret the PM that I thought cleared you, going after the Tracker, i.e. the only outed investigative role, looks suspicious on your part, not to mention I tracked you because I found you suspicious. If did nothing is in fact the same result as did an action and failed, that makes you the most scummy one. If you are town, you have no reason to go after me, since if I was scum I wouldn't have bothered to clear you; one more lynch candidate would mean that I would have a better chance of surviving.

General question: Does anyone actually know if "did nothing" =/= "did action but failed," or is a game by game thing? I'm not entirely sure.

[Refa]

Before I give my thoughts on your claim, I have a question. Since you knew that Clarinets docced Proto/Blitz, why did you choose to protect me over them?

[ZoesMad]

stuff happened.

@YOLO Elie is definitely under a post restriction, and I would wait until his next post to jump to conclusions. It looks like whatever it was severely inhibited his ability to talk.

@Refa, was TG on at the time you asked her that question? It doesn't take a long time to answer, and it feels like scum flaking if she was. I'm getting to your defense of her now.

In light of Sniper's recent info, I want people to keep considering Mancer now that we know the "clear" was a no result tracker. I also am now newb town reading Sniper Knight, because I did the exact same fucking thing in FE13 DLC Mafia as a tracker. I targeted Makaze, got a didn't visit result, and then claimed it because it felt relevant to the lynch (Makaze flipped town and we lost the game horribly but that doesn't matter shh). So his mindset coming from a town perspective seems really familiar to me.

Also Mancer. More scummy play, enough to bump him up over TG in my priority. So, he is townreading Refa, someone scumreading him through 90% of the game, while scumreading Sniper, someone who claimed with the intent of clearing him. There are two scenarios I can imagne, and both involve Mancer being scum wrt his Sniper actions.

A: He is scum struggling (most likely.)

B: Scum!Sniper tried to save his life and he wants to make Sniper look better on his flip (kind of a reverse bus, also unlikely.)

##Unvote:

##Vote: MancerNecro

I wanted to get that out, but I probably have time to get another post out and look at other players.

[Refa]

[spoiler=Not Game Relevant]

Also why is your badge Hinoka if you're Nohrian? Pretty suspicious IMO.