Zkirsche
-
Posts
2,353 -
Joined
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Events
Posts posted by Zkirsche
-
-
Associative read is a read that happens after a flip.
E.g. if we lynch Ken/Gaius and he flips mafia we might go "oh look Gaius immediately hopped onto the Sully wagon so Suly is probably not scum/mafia". (Not necessarily true but hopefully this puts forth the idea).
-
Comp spent all day updating and I'm about to go to my shift so welp, rereading over N1 I guess.
Everything about Sully reads as ok but slightly wrong which is expected from a newb. For example, I can understand how Sully can interpret BBM's posts as all corrections/observations by his frequent posting style. The posting style and content feels earnest and again I can't see first time scum making a post like his confirmation one. bad lynch.
Ken masters is also a bad lynch, dunno why everyone keeps talking about associative reads and getting info from his flip, he hasn't talked to anyone so what's the point.
QuoteI did say originally Ken/Shinori/Baldrick, but the posts that I found most objectionable from Sully were all after that. I didn't really see the point of voting Ken when he already had a bunch of votes and there was nothing for me to add since he hadn't posted for so long. I almost voted Shinori but I decided Sully was worse. Also, while I'm still not sure about Baldrick there wasn't anything concrete that made me think he was scummy so I didn't feel like voting him either.
You barely mentioned Shinori in your Sully vote post with the only statement I can find in it relating to his alignment to be you find him "relatively null" which is slightly concerning since it seems like he's currently one of your biggest scumreads yet you "can't put a finger" on why exactly. Please read the stuff in quotation marks with the most snark possible as that is my intent.
Iunno if you're a good lynch though because you defended yourself mostly well and I don't know if scum!you would be this calm and detailed in your response. I kinda wish you got pressured in that smogon game more so I would know. At this point I'll tentatively ##Unvote since you bring more to the table than the other options and i think your alignment will become clearer in time. Still think you're scum though.
@Refa: It's moreso the fact that you seem to be approaching every Mack post as something that is likely coming from scum and justifying it afterwards iunno. Keep up the pressure though it isn't bad that it's happening I guess. What do you think of Prims?
Shinori's Bart case is kinda meh, he's not really making clear the scum intent imo in Bart's posts with the main staying point is Bart's sudden suspicions on some people. Like is Bart's Sully case scummy and why? Is Sully being set up as a mislynch and how and by whom? Just Bart? I'm open to the idea but I'm not as paranoid about the people on the wagon bar BBM. Wouldn't be mad about a lynch on this slot as aside from this Bart case he hasn't done much. Still want to know his actual thoughts on me.
I'm going to ##Vote: Prims though because he's doubled down on his Ken Masters park to the point of ridiculousness. My impression from Rein's game is that Prims is the kind of player that likes to bounce off of others to get opinions of people and is very eager to do so about basically everyone and he had a lack of confidence in a couple of his reads IIRC. Now I know that was OC but the first day was played like NOC basically with added rolespec on Prims' part yet that didn't seem to affect my conversations too much with him imo. Here he is a lot more distant and a lot more resigned to this vote. As scum he wouldn't really feel the need to swap because noone else has bothered to care and imo that is what is happening. He is just letting the lynch play out for the most part and unlike some people who're pretty forgettable (Bart, Baldrick) (partly also my faulty tbh got to be picky about who to read) I would expect much much better from him. He's a good lynch because he has associations and is much less likely to flip town (Sully, Ken) and give more associative reads than some (Ken).
-
Prims do you think Ken couldn't be the kind of town that hates D1 and what makes his play so different from other people like that, e.g. Elieson. I've definitely seen this kind of play before and I'm not convinced its scum or a good lynch when there's a lot more in terms of interactions. Why would scum behave the way he is playing?
QuoteSecondly, he's not scumreading Shinori for anything other than being the weakest vote on his wagon, which is bad.
@Refa: The way I saw it is that Mack thought that Shinori was scum trying to find any reason at all to hop onto the wagon, whereas you and BBm were town trying to pressure him and look for clues. I think it's a bit wrong to simplify his townread on BBM as "he's uh uh townie" as he explained that he thinks BBM is trying to start conversations, which he claims is pushing towns agenda (agreeable enough imo). Iunno I think you're starting to get tunnel vision here.
Bizz/Quote is very forgettable and I'm having a hard time remembering his reads. I know he didn't like Bart but that seems to be it tbh.
BBM is flip flopping all over the place and its starting to bug me. He unvotes Marth as quickly as he voted him, seemingly content that Marth is trying to townread people (don't really get this, scum can easily fake town reads because they know who is town. Would like an explanation). He then leaves his vote open to be decided on later, which is fine imo, saying he'll decide on either Ken or Shinori later and prodding Baldrick who I agree is kind of in the background (because I'm one to talk). He then spends the next post waffling about Shinori with no real conclusion on him. He then votes neither and votes Sully for voting people "who don't have votes down at the moment or haven't posted in a while". For starters I think this is inaccurate, here's one of Sully's posts just the previous page:
QuoteNow that you have replied, I'm a little bit more suspicious about you. I just needed a simple explanation of your actions, and judging by the wording in Bart's post, that's all he wanted as well. What we got were a series of very charged posts telling us how illogical we were for wanting answers. Seems like the nice, town-friendly thing to do would have been to calmly explain why you did what you did.
The extra emotional force would be understandable if you were talking to people you think are scum. But you haven't posted any reads yet, so your reaction is kind of confusing. You seem more defensive than what our questions merited. Which one of us do you think is scum trying to get you mislynched? Because when you attack everybody's intelligence like that, you seem less like a team player and more like scum yourself.
You told mich you weren't flustered, and I think that's true. You aren't flustered, you're angry. Whether this is just your personality or you trying to hide something is something I'm trying to figure out.
Now yes, he does mention that Shinori hasn't posted any reads yet but I don't think its' entirely inaccurate to say so as a lot of Shinori's content was reactionary to the cases put forth against him, he of course having a read on Marth and apparently myself (would still like that clarified a bit more @Shinori). However a big part of this is the tone that Shinori took that didn't sit right with Sully. Then Sully unvotes Shinori after he understood Shinori as a person more whcih alleviates some of this concern and switches to you after discussing what he felt was wrong with you before hand.. This all feels very natural to me and not really coming from a scum perspective but I suppose I am biased. I just think you are guilty of what you are accusing Sully of - it was not only the reads but also the tone of Shinori's posts that warranted concern with Sully on page 7.
HOWEVER, all of this is irrelevant as the reason Sully voted Shinori is because of "the timing of his vote" which has rightly been called out as ridiculous. The only part of your case that kind of rings true is that he is hopping his vote around and that the initial vote justification is wack. But being wrong doesn't mean he is scum, I would like to know a bit more about the scum motivation for these two things in particular, not the misrep stuff.
What do you think of Shinori's posts on page 8? What do you think of the more minor characters in this game e.g. Prims, Refa, Bartozio?
Honestly I think I was being a bit too paranoid with Marth before, his page 6 stuff was good. Prims has kind of resigned himself to a Ken lynch which I'm not very happy with, kind of forgettable prods on people too. Baldrick and Bartozio are still kind of floating in the background imo and I will need to reread them. Kind of focused too much on the Sully/Mack/BBM/Marth situation. Shinori's recent reads post was mediocre imo, lots of gut reads, and I wasn't very enamored by their BBM vote but I want to reread his argument again to get some more clarification on that I think. Sully's post this page is town imo because it's all stuff I agree with (potentially very biased here) but they are town because of their confirmation post anyway imo, scum wouldn't post that when they have teammates to talk to.
BBM >> Prims > Shinori
I still don't have a lot of scum reads. Concerned I'm starting to tunnel on BBM like I did with Snike but I still feel like this is the best option right now.
-
Don't really have a lot of time to post right now, will address everything later. Just a few things:
@BBM: Do you have anything more to say about his Shinori vote other than that it was fine? What about the logic he uses to defend the others on his wagon? I feel like the way Refa goes about looking at his scumread is the way town would go about it: his close analysis of his wagon analysis for example is something I would expect. The way you went about it just feels off. Even now you seem to be defending Shinori but you still find something off about him. I'm just having a hard time keeping track of your reads this game which is putting me off.
@Shinori: My vote wasn't just off of disagreeing with him, especially considering I was townreading Mack and was wary of Marth/Magnificence Incarnate.
@Prims: I wanted to hear more from Marth moreso than I had an actual read on him. None of my reads were that strong going into that post, BBM was just the most egregious. I may have voted him regardless because of his early Mack stuff but can't say for sure since my opinion may have swayed more to pressure say, Marth. I'll read his new stuff later after my shift but it looks like the Marth/BBM interactions aren't going to be as interesting as I thought they might, at a glance.
-
Hi.
1 hour ago, Mackc2 said:The reason Michelaar is always lynched when he is town is because he doesn't comment on the game and is overly defensive when people prod at his inactivity so yeah it would be a decent idea to prod him and try to draw suspision onto him
I can't follow this logic at all. The way you've written this makes it seem like you want to make him overdefensive, even though that usually results in his lynch and frequent mislynch? I *think* what you're trying to say is that if he plays the same way Prims/Refa/co will stop the lynch because they are persuasive and know his meta, but that didn't stop them the first few times. I think you're overthinking it.
That said I think Mack is good because I'm a sucker for people who can calmly review their own wagon and react nicely to pressure. Disagree with BBm about the nervous thing, and am kinda confused as to what that even suggests. Would like him to clarify what he meant by that statement (as in, how does it affect alignment) and what gave him that impression in teh first place.
pedit: Really not liking that last vote swap by BBM either, not a lot of emotion in it. If his Mich vote was still bad then why does the Shinori vote completely nullify that? What about the Shinori vote do you like enough to reverse thsi decision? Is Marth simply worse and Mack is still a scumread?
##Vote: BBM
I think Marth's reason for suspecting Bart's sheep vote is good as thinking someone is disinterested is a better read than "he's scummy because he sheeps", but it does feel odd that he is very aware of how many people are on each wagon. If I thought someone was scum I wouldn't be too scared if they had a couple of votes on them, early on at least so long as it wouldn't make them dangerously close to being hammered of course. @Magnificence Incarnate: If the situation was reversed and Mack had the three votes on him, would you sheep him?
Can't really agree with the "Sully being setup as a lynch" either as it's way too early in the day for that. I have some more thoughts on BBM's case but I will let Marth elaborate a bit more first I think. Hoping their interactions will shed some light on their alignment.
My other reads are town reads or null reads. I'm not really sold on the Ken masters cases, while I get where they are comming from, and he definitely is scummy in a "traditional" sense, I just get the feeling he is in that unfrotunate group of players that underestimate the importance of D1, and especially ED1. His kind of stubbornness is very much expected from him imo. I'm also somewhat doubtful scum would just brazenly boast about how they have no reads and how impossible it is to get them this early.
-
/confirm
-
gg wp
Snike your sacrifice was not in vain.
-
-
-
Would happly lynch Elieson he is flailing pretty hard, especially with the Obvious tirade. Snike > Elieson for lynch candidates today.
-
Quote
Why would Snike lose interest in pursuing a case that 99% of the game already doesnt share similar thoughts on? I assume it is because he isnt confident in his case on mich being worth enough weight to mean anything. Its how I read it. Theres a reason why Im not chasing you as scum, and what I just said applies to myself...its not a far cry to think someone else would use the same logic.
That would be fine if that is the excuse that he used. If he had said "I don't think my Mich read is very strong so I didn't pursue it" then fine. But he didn't say that nor did he really imply it. He just said that other people were townreading him and then later on changed this to because Mich is "lynch bait" and he was paranoid about that.
(Not with me) : [4:48 PM] Snike: I don't think putting pressure on mich is worth my time because from what I'm being told he's often lynch bait, so while I think his logic at the time and in other ways is suspect I don't think he is scum?
QuoteWhere, exactly?
This is the part of the log in question.
Spoiler[20:30] jkirsche: ???? when did Snike say he thought Mich was town
[20:31] sb: im talking to him now and he said he reads mich as town
[20:31] sb: i believe
[20:31] jkirsche: hmmm
[20:31] jkirsche: regardless 2 votes is still a lot in terms of this day phase
[20:31] jkirsche: and it was 3 votes
[20:34] jkirsche: Can you give me logs of Snike saying that he thinks Mich is town
[20:34] jkirsche: timestamped
[20:34] sb: [20:22] Snike: on the less negative side of life, I think greencapps is noob townie so far
[20:23] Snike: and from what I'm reading Michelaar being read along those lines by near everyone I've talked to
[20:23] Snike: michelaar is*
[20:26] sb: yeah i was feeling good about mich early
[20:26] Snike: so while I don't know either of those players, not inclined to lynch them based on some noob stuff
[20:34] sb: actually thats not quite true i guessSnike never said that he thought Mich was town yet Sb thought that he said that anyway. This is why I suspect him. This is not a major case and hence why I am not pushing it as strongly as the Snike case.
QuoteIf your case is so OBVIOUS then why are you explaining it with subtleties?
??????????? Crazy deflection here. No comments on the logic and starts going off on something I didn't even say (no use of the word obvious in my previous post m8).
What is "both ways"(tm)? I am reserving judgement on Refa until my next convo with him. I have no read on JB at all.
-
Oh Elie what do you think of Refa since he sheeped LG's case.
-
Re: The Only Lynch Worth Caring About
Quote^came out of nowhere
No it didn't lol read the logs.
[4:43 PM] Snike: that being said next question is probably why am I not voting mich[4:44 PM] Snike: that's because according to next to everyone I've talked to he's obvtown or being townread^^literally admitted that the main reason he didn't vote MIch was because everyone else was townreading him, when that makes no sense coming from a townie trying to catch scum.This fucking reaching buzzword is triggering me super hard. I never said Snike was reaching. I'm not reaching on the Snike case by suspecting SB, those are two seperate things. If I hadn't talked to SB at all this game I would still have criticised Snike.
SB is scummy because he defending Snike badly and in a way that I feel like a buddy would.
Quotedude guys why are we still stacking votes on a nonposter
This isn't what Snike said, Snike criticised Mich's "logic" when there really is no need to imo because he is just trying to add pressure on an inactive. This is bad because it hurts town to diffuse tension on someone being pressured.
Quote"Snike, I'm trying to attack you, but you're getting defensive. What a scum scrub."
Another misrep (ooo look at the buzzwords go), the logs theselves aren't defensive its the post that I'm criticising. Way to completely ignore the subtleties of my statement namely
Snike's whole post is overly defensive. He keeps trying to justify being defensive in his logs when I never criticised him for that. He keeps repeating statements like "damned if I do, damned if I don't" trying to play the victim card super hard and that is basically the "logic" behind his vote on me. Its a thinly veiled OMGUS.
Am I scum? Lynch priority?
OTHER STUFF
Greencapps was the one who said they didn't have anything else, GP may or may not have had other thoughts on stuff.
-
Still would rather lynch Snike. More concise summary of my case imo:
Spoiler[1:40 AM] jkirsche: sb is scum if SNike is[1:40 AM] jkirsche: and SNike obviosuly is[1:47 AM] jkirsche: but why don't you agree with me on that[4:26 AM] LG: [4:19 PM] LG: Lol is he pushing on the fact that there isn't a clear cut "Mich is town" line from Snike[4:26 AM] LG: it's super semantics focused[4:26 AM] LG: like[4:27 AM] LG: Snike saw the general consensus was that Mich was town[4:27 AM] LG: and agreed with it?[4:28 AM] LG: Snike talked to me about being defensive because he thinks you're reaching super hard[4:28 AM] LG: I don't think thats something to push him on[5:52 PM] jkirsche: Snike never agreed with it[5:52 PM] jkirsche: really starting to get peeved at the reaching comments[5:52 PM] jkirsche: if this is NOC people would be jumping on thsi shit asap[6:08 PM] jkirsche: I never pushed on him for being defensive to my actions[6:09 PM] jkirsche: I'm pushing him for being defensive of Junko[6:09 PM] jkirsche: theres no semantics to my case[6:10 PM] jkirsche: he tried to diffuse the tension on Junko for no reason[6:11 PM] jkirsche: *diffuse some tension[6:11 PM] jkirsche: whcih is scummy because it is easy to criticise a pressure vote wagon and it isn't really content[6:11 PM] jkirsche: also buddies up to Junko and makes you look caring[6:12 PM] jkirsche: Then Snike implies that he finds Mich actually pretty scummy but doesn't want to vote him because everyone thinks Mich is town[6:12 PM] jkirsche: whcih is MORE reason to vote him if anything[6:12 PM] jkirsche: OMGUS'd me without actually saying why my case i scummy[6:13 PM] jkirsche: and is now seemingly misrepresenting my case to people like you in private conversationsElie is still an ok lynch because it seems hes still claiming that people are saying the scummy thing is him not being sure about Prims being TL when it is actually the manner in which he brings Prims down that is suspect. Elieson can you comment on any of the things that doesn't relate to the cases on you, for example:
-My case on Snike (see above)
-GP's Case on JB
-SB's case on GP
-Snike's response to my case.
-Junko. -
Where there's smoke there's fire doesn't really hold up when there's no proper evidence that Mich is town, just speculation on the part of the people who have talked to Snike.
-
I didn't even talk about how defensive Snike was before my presvious post so it's kinda suspect that he goes out of his way to justify his behaviour imo. Very self conscious.
-
Not faked logs just fumbled around.
Snike trying to defuse tension is scummy af no reason not to pressure Junko really and the call out on Mich is not only unjustified (it was 3 votes not 2 and yes thats a wagon for D1) but actually counterprodocutive. Really easy way for scum to try and seem like they care (is this what they call chainsaw defence? Legit question can't keep up with the terms they make nowadays) as it's just fluff really. "oh man Mich was kind of (but not actually) overexaggerating about the votes on Junko" hoenstly he keeps trying to justify that his read on Junko is null too which reads super defensive. Yes I went into convo to pressure you and everything in the post was made after I talked to you and you had time to compose yourself so I see no need for you to get this defensive.
-
Snike is also not voting Mich because peopel are townreading Mich which is ???? logic. Lynch here imo.
Sus on SB, he defended Snike by saying Snike thinks Mich was town who had poor justification to his vote (voting Junko to pressure him = poor justification???) but then when I pressured him for the logs it turns out Snike never said that and the whole defence was completely made up.
Snike/Sb scumteam imo, maybe Junko buddy but that is too simple imo.
-
##Unvote
##Vote: Snike
Defence of Junko felt a bit weird. Who cares if there wasn't a lot of pressure at the time. Very nitpicky imo.
-
^^^^^ ##Vote: Elieson sheep worthy. Don't really see the point of Elie's "claim" at all really other than to try and discredit Prims? inb4 reaction test.
If anyone else is asking you for claims seriously (claimt0me isn't necessarily serious) out them asap so we can kill them dead please and thank you.
-
-
On 02/10/2017 at 3:23 PM, Magus of Flowers said:
As much as I agree with what you said, I've spent enough time in the larger video-gaming community to know that even calling someone a n*****, derogatorily, hard-r at the end and all will still have people tripping over themselves to justify it
*cough cough* PewDiePie *cough cough*.Pewdiepie didn't try to justify it, he denounced it and said that he made a horrible mistake and he hates himself for it. He made no excuses for what he did.
-
"Regardless of what these people tell you, they do not care about you. Trusting them is a one way ticket to getting yourself killed"
This really is just what I was trying to say all along (in an aggressive tone), whether or not you'll believe me is another matter though. I only attacked you for one and a bit day phases in this. Before I was just gonna suicide/ die with a whimper.
I should've also made it clear that I didn't take all stars that personally and that really falls under making sure to clear everything up with you privately before beginning the crusade. That really is the take away from this game.
-
1 hour ago, Paperblade said:
I think it's a bit disingenuous to imply that drama is somehow unique to EIMM or OC. There's been plenty of drama in the past with NOC, including stuff which got mods involved. I could probably go find a dozen instances over the years of people losing their shit at each other over NOC games.
The fact is that as long as there is more than one person involved, there will inevitably be conflict and drama.
Man do you not even realise how bad the vile shit you spewed this game was? In case people missed it (I know of some people who did), this is what was said and why I made that poorly timed remark about PB being immature:
Spoiler[3:41 PM] Paperblade: @jkirsche go fuck yourself
[3:41 PM] Paperblade: honestly
[3:41 PM] Paperblade: no one likes you
[3:42 PM] Paperblade: go have emily give you a blowjob and tell you how smart you are
[3:42 PM] Paperblade: because no one else will
Paperblade: maybe if ur lucky
[3:42 PM] Paperblade: makaze will join in
[3:43 PM] Paperblade: honestly I feel bad for you kirsche
[3:43 PM] Paperblade: going through life
[3:43 PM] Paperblade: feeling like a victim
[3:44 PM] Paperblade: for every slight real and imagined
Full context to the above can be easily found by ctrl+f "go fuck yourself" in the EiMM game chat.
This doesn't include Chen's thinly veiled snarky strawpoll, the shit you said to me in private, the shit your group chat said behind my back (don't think I don't know where those memes came from) etc etc. What you and your sheeple did goes way beyond drama and borders verbal harassment. None of this shit happened in NOC, the worst it got was when someone said something offensive and they got roasted for it or a bunch of people ganged up on one player and took things slightly too far, or maybe life got carried away but that's Life for you.
This is hardly an isolated incident either to be fair, after Gaius backstabbed everyone he was harassed hard, this is not the first game Makaze has been called a sociopath or the first game Einto has been targetted. There has never been insults thrown around to the level of what is above before EiMM and the fact that you of all people are acting like this is anywhere close to normal for other mafia games is despicable and shows how unapologetic you are for being this much of an asshole.
Now I could've been more sensitive by being less condescending and I should've brought your attention to the fact that I was gonna call you a backstabber in private, both of which I apologised for, but at the end of the day I actually had very little to do with Einto backstabbing Lil Bean and the game before this one you backstabbed me so it's hardly slandering your character.
Persona 5 Mafia - Game Over
in Mafia
Posted
So my N1 reread was mostly pointless then since it focused entirely on Prims.
Well here it is if any of you want it. Don't want it to go to complete waste.
Gaius’ comments about how early Ken’s content is that Prims is harping on about really rings true. Since I joined late I kinda forgot how early it was, but page 2?
@Bart: Got any scumreads/lynch priority, you said you spsected Mack and Sully but imo those are easy reads to make, what is your opinion on Refa/BBM/Via and why? What was your closing read on Gaius that you didn’t have time to say?
@Baldrick: Can you make like a reads post or something and save me the hassle of rereading you right now will love you forever.
God I fucking hate being wrong now I don't know what to think.
##Vote: Bartozio
Best lead right now because Prims made a good point and that end of day post is kinda meh. Didn't get the same vibe from BBM by his EoD stuff I guess but wasn't really focused on him.