Zkirsche
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Posts posted by Zkirsche
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6 hours ago, Paperblade said:
##Phase Extension
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I hate my role pm.
Glad it's dead.
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Skype is Joshua Kirwan, I'm the guy with an owl.
I am cooperative and supportive.
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Yeah and when you think about who's below her it really doesn't take a lot of utility to be better than them.
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In case anyone wants them for anything I recorded the stats of enemies as I beat the game.
Alm & Act 5: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eAkDo4Xi-6coOTH5lzPn4fJA77oJ_uSviyvui3X_H24/edit?usp=sharing
Celica: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iB6Z9i-oBEt4hgOgT5Q1_IqgK06ze4PWZ7iu9BU1OcA/edit?usp=sharing
There were a few terror battles in Act 5 I didn't record and I didn't do any optional stuff like the encounters, but they weren't really difficult. Can extract boss data from these too in case it's wanted for the main site.
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Good work so far, it would be nice to maybe get a feel for your set up before chapters (just going over the units and their inventories should suffice).
Non-mandatory encounters should definitely be included in the turncount (otherwise you could use them to farm exp). Don't particularly like grinding for money either.
2 hours ago, SullyMcGully said:On the topic of turn counts, do both player and enemy phases have to occur to officially pass a turn? Because I can feasibly complete a lot of the dungeon battles before the enemy gets to move if I get a surprise attack. Also, what if the enemy gets a back attack and gets to move first? Does that count as a turn?
There is a turn counter which will decide what turn it is (you can see it clearly if you use Mila's turnwheel). The turn you finish on will be the "number of turns needed to complete the chapter".
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Guys I just had an idea would it be better to just let everyone number everyone? E.g.
Gunter - 4
Azura - 9
Kaze - 5
Rinkah - 6
.........
etc etc
as we could get right into the meat of it. Dunno why I didn't think of this sooner. -
Elise will have 6 skill if you promote her at 10. That is not even remotely acceptable, even with forges. It isn't acceptable in hard mode, so I don't know how you can justify it in Lunatic. Sure, taking risks is good and all, but Silas/Effie/Niles/Leo don't really have to take risks and I think you're ignoring that.
Silas and Effie should be in the same tier: they won't double but they won't die. Technically Silas has a better chance of doubling (he only has 10% less spd growth and his base/class line (paladin) is better for it). If either doubles they kill, if either doesn't they don't. They're tanky enough that they can use the pair up attack option to kill people they don't double. Just merge A and A-.
Charlotte cannot be A while Selena is B-. Let's look at your analysis:
SpoilerShe is a solid unit all around although is relatively squishy. Her skill and luck growths help her dodge consistently. Even though she is statistically better as a Hero, making her a Bow Knight gives you a much needed second bow unit as well as additional movement and the base speed on top of her outstanding speed growths can make her dangerous. Unfortunately, both these classes are relatively underwhelming which affects her greatly.
SpoilerEven when she first joins, giving her a killer axe gives her insane crit numbers. Her strength growth is elite and her skill is well above average so she hits hard and hits often. If you are willing to sacrifice her hit rate for gamble and a great club, her crit rates can reach between 80-90 %. Her high health and solid defense keep her alive for multiple fights as a Berserker (although Sol is very useful as a Hero, you miss out on death blow and loses a lot of her crit). Magic users are an issue though as her resistance leaves her vulnerable: If you could somehow get vantage on her (either through MC marriage or skill inheritance) she literally cannot lose a fight. Probably one of the most broken things I’ve seen.
Selena is "relatively squishy" while Charlotte has "high HP and solid defence". Selena has 24/11 HP/Def with 40/45% growths, respectively, at level 10. Charlotte has 28/8 HP/Def with 65/20%, respectively, at level 10. How on earth is Selena squishy but Charlotte not? Selena takes 3 less damage from each attack so anything that 2HKOs her will 2HKO Charlotte. It's actually easier to 2HKO Charlotte (needs 22 atk, which 3 hits Selena). Selena gets 3HKO'd by enemies with 19-22 atk, Charlotte 18-21 etc.
This assumed that Selena is still at base level for chapter 13 when she's had 3 chapters, one of which was a defence chapter, to level. So she's likely getting 3HKO'd while Charlotte gets 2HKO'd. This picture only gets worse because Selena's defence is gonna skyrocket. and def is far more important than HP. Mages are also less of an issue for Selena, though both will likely get 2RKO'd by the stronger ones.
But let's make some more comparisons: Selena's defence growth is higher than Silas' and at level 10 Silas' has a ~65% chance of having 12 or less def, and has a ~65% chance of having the same amount of HP or less. This is hardly a lead which is going to get smaller! This means she is almost as tanky as Silas, except wait, she has WTA against the deadliest units (axe users), later on may have better 2 range as a bow knight along with sol and good fortune. So Selena is basically as tanky as Silas. We can even pair her up with Beruka and turn her into a wyvern for extra tankiness if she really is that squishy =p.
Now for offence:
Level 10 Selena w/ Iron Sword (C rank): 19 str, 112 Hit, 4 Crit, 15 Speed
Level 10 Charlotte w/ Steel Axe (C Rank): 27 Str, 79 Hit, 13 Crit, 10 Eff spd.If Selena can double then the enemy needs 12 defence or more for the Str lead to be significant. Hang on, that becomes significantly less if Selena is not the person who initiated combat or if Selena has a +str pair up (e.g. Beruka). This is also BASE Selena when Selena is likely to have had 3+ levels. And look at that hit. I guess that's 89 when paired up but damn, she's gonna be facing <50% displayed (which is even lower true) at times and with a not so great defence she can't risk leaving enemies alive.
Now later on this will quickly dwindle, I will admit: Charlotte's offensive stats are very good. But Selena is not weak, certainly doesn't have noodle arms. "A" Swords and counterattacking gives her +6 str lategame on the enemy phase or she can move to axes. A Beruka support can compound on this and fix her lacklustre attack and give her a bit of MoV. Selena is also more flexible: she can move to Bow Knight to get bows and thus a solid 2 range option.
So Selena completely outclasses Charlotte in durability all game, is better offensively for a little bit (easily 1-3 chapters), comes earlier and has a nice class option in Bow knight (no this is not a mediocre class lmao) and yet is 4 tiers below Charlotte? How is this justifiable? No being able to crit the occasional enemies Camilla/Avatar/Elise/Xander miss every so often is not acceptable, heck those units are unlikely to leave anything behind for Charlotte to clean up because they have more mobility than her, which may even be flight mobility. If Selena pairs with Beruka (not even sure this is an optimal pairing btw) then Selena basically has flight too.
EDIT: LOL BASE GROWTH RATES. Fucking whoops I was wondering why everyone has these low growth rates. Well she's still almost as tanky as Silas but he'll almost certainly have 12 def by level 10. Also Charlotte does escalate faster than I thought but tbh I still don't think Selena's offence is that bad *shrug*.
I blame this error on reclassing. Dumb mechanic.
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Sorry for being late, but Felicia scored a solid 7.2/10!
Next is Gunter. How do people weigh his chapter 15 performance? Does letting him gain exp early on hinder us much?
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Poor Jakob, only two people bothered to vote. Ah well. Average of 8.0 I guess.
In the event that this was just a one off, voting has now begun on Felicia.
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You forgot a write up for Selena.
Edit: No wait you did do one but it's merged with the Peri write up.
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8 hours ago, λrc Impulse said:
Some thoughts:
Top Tier looks perfect to me.
High Tier - I have to admit that 20+ playthroughs of FE9 later I have never once used Tanith. What makes her rate above the likes of Ike and Boyd? Is Reinforcements just that good?
As a what if, where would everyone rate Ike if he could promote freely?
Mid Tier - I fail to see Mia above Zihark, he statstically dominates her in HP, STR, SKL and DEF, and let's not forget built-in Adept. They'll both ram the cap on SPD, leaving Mia's only advantages as LCK and RES (and while her RES is certainly better, it's still not exactly good...) I'd also argue that Zihark has a slightly better support list and that sweet, sweet Earth affinity. Initially I thought it might be a question of Mia's earlier availability and performance for her forced deployments but if Stefan is rated higher than both of them that can't be the case at all.Hey there.
Tanith is very strong and is a flier. Flying utility trumps pretty much everything. She'd be top if she didn't arrive so late. I would likely rank Ike where he is right now tbh, he can't get higher because he will always lose out to paladins and fliers, and Boyd is just a better unit (1RKOs more reliably and has 1-2 range).
Mia can do more things in chapter 9 and IIRC using her availability can become a vital part of a low turn clear of chapter 12, whereas Zihark would need resources (read:BEXP) to be able to match her level that she would acquire from CEXP in chapter 8, for example. After chapter 12 both units are considered sub-par and just made irrelevant by fliers/mounts/laguz/other foot units (e.g. Stefan, Ike, Boyd, Nephenee). I think there *might* have been an argument to ferry Vantage+Wrath Mia in chapter 25 to help a low clear of that too but I don't think that was necessary.
I could see Stefan below both of them though as they at least have unique utility in chapter 12.
Edit: Mia, along with Mist, is one of the two most talked about units in this game and her position right now is very well discussed in terms of her vs other low MoV units. Here's a compilation of some of the big posts advocating Mia's rise (she used to be lower mid while Zihark+neph were upper mid):
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Congratulations to Avatar for getting a crazy score of 9.7! Btw what gender is considered best, if any one in particular? This will be an important thing to consider when arguing about Felicia and Jakob. Speaking of which...
Next up is Jakob. I don't really have much of an opinion of him so I will refrain from voting as I believe much of his use comes from reclassing him which is not something I've ever done to much success.
Also would people agree/be opposed with the idea that the tier list should be for drafters? I.e. "the higher the unit, the quicker they should be drafted" type deal?
Also remember to give this topic a follow so you get notified when someone makes a post!
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Fair enough, I was mostly just spitballing the idea and using numbers to back up the possibility. If people were to argue that bolting takes too long to get that's fine, but I wouldn't say that Soren and Ilyana can't use it to good effect IF they have it.
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3 hours ago, Hawk King said:
Without fliers, believe it or not, Rolf is actually the 3rd best option for some LTC strategies.
No, it wont actually save any turns pre-Meteor. Fliers or no fliers. Well, Unless you are doing a Mounts and Mages only run...
Depending on the type of playthrough, Soren can have significant contributions throughout the entire playthrough. And Calill can never use staffs so Soren/Ilyana make more contributions after.
Soren > Ilyana > Calill has already been set in stone at this point.
Well this isn't a strictly LTC list. I think the best way of thinking about it is what order would the units get picked in a draft run.
How would land units do it in a way, mounts can't?
Fantastic, so we're in agreement.
QuoteTrue, but the same can also be said for killing since, some turns, there are no killable foes in range.
This is almost never true thanks to rescue, 9MoV and Canto. Oscar and any other front line unit are killing a good amount of enemies each chapter on the enemy phase, then you give him bexp on top of that because bexping everyone to the same level is silly and suddenly a significant level gap can start to form.
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Without fliers it can possibly save more than two turns. Honestly I don't think it's that big a point anyway, Soren/Ilyana have small contributions before Calill arrives and the same contributions after so it's hard to argue Calill > Soren.
The last point is not going to be true for all teams.
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Edit: Double post pls delet this
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I didn't compare 20/10 Soren with 20/20 Oscar I compared him to level 20/12-20/15 Oscar and co. I merely brought attention to the fact that Oscar should be a much higher level than Soren (which is true front line fighting vs occasional staves and siege combat) so comparing them both at 20/10 is misleading.
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5 hours ago, Ottokar said:
How do you play Mafia?
I would recommend going to a site that is active if you're interested, I think most players here are pretty done with mafia. If you want to learn/understand basic tactics you can try looking at our info dump here:
you can also read a few games but keep in mind that everyone is mafia mafia is not regular mafia.
Edit: I'd probably recommend smogon as a good site to go to for mafia. Lots of active players and it's a pokemon site so the people there are cool.
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Ah I forgot about forges. I'll allow smithy but food is way too inconsistent to be tiered appropriately imo.
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I'll start things off, I don't want to vote in my opening post because it'll clutter the OP and there's nothing more irritating imo, but if mods are offended by the double post then so be it, just merge them.
##Avatar: 10
Top kek. Don't know how much needs to be explained with this guy? Unlimited reclassing. Great stat spread, good early skills. Amazing the whole game. Was tempted to just assume him top of top in his own tier but don't know how much Camilla will get in comparison so thought it best to allow voting incase the consensus is that she's better =p.
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~Voting Phase~
Rules/Goals:
- Conquest Hard mode
- No DLC/Spotpass/Einherjar/Lottery Shop/Invasions etc
- No Kids or their paralogues.
- LTC, no absurd set ups (<5-10% chance of success).
- Reclassing, weapon/item shops, smithy allowed.
- Have fun!
Right now is the voting phase! Even if you are new/inexperienced with this game/debating feel free to drop a numerical vote with some logic behind it (remember your favourite units aren't necessary the best units =p) and then using averages we can tier smash-bros style. After we've done the initial orderings, which I predict will be popularity based and while it'll definitely be wrong we can reorder people drastically through debate.
That doesn't mean discussion is discouraged while voting! Please use each others thoughts and ideas to help influence your vote - which won't be locked in until next week (1 week per character). It's best to keep an open mind and talk using averages found on the site rather than personal experience. To make it easier for me to find your vote if you could put two hastags before your vote (e.g. ##Avatar: 10) that would be greatly appreciated. Tiers will be spereated by a large numerical difference, votes out of 10 please.
Current standings:
Spoiler~Top~
Avatar (9.7)
~High~
Jakob (8.0)
Felicia (7.2)The rules are also open to discussion.
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On 03/05/2017 at 1:17 PM, joshcja said:
You've answered your own question, it shares absolutely nothing with LCQ LTC where the lowest TC's use some truly staggering setup rigging to go for borderline impossible clears on almost every chapter.
(Shoutouts to Ch9)
That said nobody actually enjoys unrestricted LCQ LTC.
Yeah I don't think the majority of people reading this tier list will do it because they want to grind LTC LCQ.
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6 hours ago, Reality said:
Please make it specifically a LTC tier list with organized placement by debate schedule. If some units are initially shafted this is not too big a problem as it will correct itself as we have draft/replacement runs throughout the next year. Don't see how a no reclass tier list would be useful as a resource, especially with regards to elice, setsuna, etc.
What is the problem with efficiency? It's just LTC while discrediting strats with heavy reliance on RNG. I don't really see a tier list that would require someone resetting a lot of the time to succeed as a useful resource. I agree that that is the best way to get it started though, I will reluctantly accept partner/friendship seals.
Also I could not ever do a birthright/revelations tier list personally as I hate birthright and have never finished it. Can barely remember some of the non royals. Haven't played revelations either.
EiMM: All Stars (Won by Ice, Paper, PKL, and Rein!)
in Mafia
Posted
By the way public reminder that phase ends were supposed to be non-negotiable so make sure you have an action submitted in what I presume to be the next 30 minutes.