Ownagepuffs
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Has anybody tried temporarily going Brave Hero with Xander to get Sol as your proc skill instead of Luna? I gotta say I do appreciate Luna procs on the higher difficulties of the game, though, as Xander, believe it or not, often 1HKOs enemies he doesn't double and can sometimes even fail to 2HKO enemies he does double with, like, S-Charlotte. The vitality from running Sol could you give more confidence when facing really large groups of endgame foes.
The only time I've ever done Hero Xander was a mid chapter switch in N26 so that he would lose the beast weakness for the generals in the bottom room lol. Aside from that it's pretty hard for Xander to die to anything physical and Hero does nothing for his Res (he actually loses some!). It's a fun novelty idea if you don't mind dropping the horse for a bit.
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RIP her then. Nothing important was lost.
Soleil's a cool kid though. Base 60% Str growth is higher than Shinonome and her base class is gr8. Actually yeah she's like a female Shinonome except she can go horse. She just has problems existing.
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Isn't Pieri!Soleil outclassed by her mother in main game due to lack of supports?
The pairing was simply about making a good Soleil. Kids as a whole still kinda suffer from lack of supports, yes.
Kanna doesn't seem like a particularly impressive unit this time around… but what do you think are the best pairings (1st gen for 2nd gen Kanna or 2nd gen for 3rd gen Kanna) for making Kanna turn out as well as reasonably possible in a no-grind run?
Kanna's clearly no Morgan, but perhaps some combinations turn out better than others?
Me and Shephen were actually chatting about this a bit the other day. Hana!Kanna is probably one of the better Kannas you can have. Variable parent (Hana) has 1st chapter availability and passes good growths along with being able to take their sword rank into Samurai. Kamui will also always have access to Samurai via marriage seal as well so they can always hop into it for the final bosses. Inigo!Kanna is another interesting option (Kanna can carry sword rank into Merc, Kamui has access to Merc) though the problem is that Laz joins midgame in Nohr. Silas!Kanna is another pretty good one for Cavalier!Kanna and Kamui having access to Cavalier. In Nohr Silas also has first chapter availability too (second chapter availability in Hosh is still good). If you're fine with sacking Effie, something like Arthur!Kanna might be good too. Kamui benefits from Arthur's pair up bonuses and has access to Hero (post promotion). Kanna's growths aren't too bad since they also can go Hero (post promotion). Edit: If you go something like +Str for this pairing (ideal) then you also get a Lutz that benefits from Kamui's strength growth, as well as being able to pass down Noble Lineage to him to make training him easier (like how Robin passes Veteran). Sophie and Soleil would also benefit from this.
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So, do you guys like Camilla as a Malig Knight or a Wyvern Lord and, if both, then when? Personally I think the Malig skills are pretty uber, and while the debuff doesn't see any use when she's mercilessly ORKOing stuff, whenever it does trigger it really helps the weaklings around Camilla score kills they would've struggled to get without it. Overbearing is incredibly useful for +5 dmg on non-mounts, which a lot of Camilla's victims will be, and allows her to OHKO units she fails to one-round, like some ninja and trueblades.
At the same time, Overbearing is only L15 which is most of Camilla's lifetime in your party, and during that time don't you want to give her more strength, more speed and a good deal more physical durability? She also becomes a more adequate defence pair-up partner for the likes of Kaze and Niles, whom she in turns likes being pair-up supported by (Flannel is also a good one, as is their potential daughter), so when she's not the one attacking her future or current husband could be kicking ass and taking names too.
And then again, Malig Knight paired up with Leo or Felicia for mag/spd/def bonuses gets some wicked damage out with a Bolt Axe (it really weakens when reclassing to WLord).
It seems that if you want the most out of Camilla ASAP you'll basically have to constantly shuffle between the two Wyvern Rider promotions (even though Sorc offers Bowbreaker, she's really hard to use as one, plus do you really want to rely on dodging 50-ish or so hit attacks? Vengeance's a nice proc skill though), and that's quite costly for the one path that's really restricted in terms of resources.
She spends time as both. I take her to Rev 5 --> Wyvern 15 --> Rev 16 --> Wyvern again. Sometimes if I feel silly I'll do Zerker Camilia around level 15 or something then Rev then Wyvern.
What is Gunter reclassed to, Malig Knight, for extra magic in that setup? Obviously you want him to fly for chapter 15, but does he need the combat of a Wyvern Lord? Obviously Defence Rallying is useful later on, but somebody else could do that (like Beruka or Camilla). And yeah, I can imagine the Ch25 Silence staff saving a turn or two unless you are able to rig the staff dodges or we figure out how the AI chooses which staff to use and whom - no clue so far except it tends to screw up whatever you had intended to do next turn.
As for your complaint about Orochi!Matoi, doesn't it basically mean any Matoi build is bad because Subaki will always be bulkier? Even Rinkah!Matoi has underwhelming durability, so you either keep using Subaki or you build a character with some actual magic to handle the more powerful enemies in additional to the crappier mooks. Then there's also Revelation where Matoi's offensive edge over Subaki makes her more desirable (at the same time, her lack of durability is even more painful).
But yeah, if Matoi is really as good as children get, then children really are no good (at least in the context of practicality, which is what we're dealing with in this thread). Still, Deere is a 7-8 mov healer that costs you 1 extra turn, Lutz is an extra flier in Nohr who loves Elfie's growth inheritance (the question remains if you really need another flier in addition to Camilla, Luna, Beruka, Gunter and potentially MU), and I've noticed Velour turns out really good though maybe it's just my experience and things aren't so good if you take the Beaststone+ out of the equation.
Children are fun filler units in case their parents fall super behind on their averages or something. Early Effie!Lutz is as good as kids get since he has a great, quick support option in daddy, comes before midgame, and has similar bases to Belka but much better growths. He can sub in for Effie if her speed growth doesn't cooperate too. Deere and Foleo are great drop in staffbots with good movement and their dads see a lot of use. If you pair Silas with a good strong mommy (Hana or Kagerou) then Sophie benefits a lot from their strengths and can sub in for Silas. Hana!Sophie in particular has like a million practical skill combos she can do. Velour is kind of a kill machine but suffers from Garou problems.
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It's actually kinda pathetic that Effie!Lutz can be obtained around the time you get Beruka and he will outclass her whole heartedly. At least Camilla is promoted and has monster growths. However, Tsubaki is far from bad, so even if you have his daughter he can still be your flier support along with her.
Certain kids just aren't great. Despite my best attempts, Soleil just isn't remarkable. Ingis is cursed by mods, etc. But for the most part they can be solid units in any army.For Soleil, have you tried Pieri for her mom? She can combine open assault and patient assurance, the couple joins at the same time and has a fast support due to being a retainer-to-retainer support, and Soleil can go Cavalier or Bow Knight for Horse options while retaining her sword rank from Merc. Also Ignis isn't cursed by mods, he's cursed by having the worst unit in Nohr as a dad in addition to being a Knight, kinda like Hoshido!Tharja
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Olivia 10 times outta 10.
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How useful is Yuugiri?
No one answered?
Very useful in both routes. More useful in IK because she's a sorta early strong prepromote who can either weaken enemies for you growth units to pick up or kill problem enemies (FE6 Zealot?). She's good as a GKW because her bulk is nothing special and Yumi are a strong weapon type that lets her avoid payer phase counters.
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In IK Takumi needs the offense of Holy Bowman to keep up long term. However, in Hosh GKW is admittedly better because offensive requirements nowhere near as high.
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Felicia (C16)/Flannel.
Also, have we banned first servant mounted reclassing?
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Consider me the 4th, though I don't have my game atm. If at any point someone wants to take my place while I'm still unable to play then I resign to them.
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I've gotten warrior weapons as a gold prize before and since those are the Hoshidan equivalents of Braves I'm sure it was from the level 3 lottery since that's the only one that drops gold prizes.
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I'm in support of a Cam ban post C10 (where she should be free).
Question: is pupeteer Kamui considered "mounted"?
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An extra quickdraw Katana. Doesn't sound special, but then you realize that makes the 4th total quickdraw Katana you get, meaning you can forge it to +2. A 10 Mt Weapon that gives +5 Speed is pretty sexy. Edit: I didn't forge it to +2 though because it was a personal challenge to not do any forges outside of the game's realm of possibility (including extra weapons from lottery).
I also got a statbooster at some point but it was something useless like a skill book or talisman lol.
2nd edit: I think Gwimpage got a Brave Lance once lol.
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Why mixed attacker? Using Explosive Shuriken / Levin Sword / Bolt Axe in addition to physical weapons you mean? Cause DFs don't use tomes any longer.
I'm not impressed by Dread Fighters tbqh. Dark Fliers have flight, mounted tomes and Galeforce (which is a big deal for Felicia/Jakob mainly).
Dread Fighters are cool because they have a bunch of magic resistant skills and their skill that lets them escape statuses 2x quicker is cool too. It gives everyone Shuriken/Dagger Access and for most of your unpromoted physical units it's a really nice boost. A little too nice in the early game, since you have a unit with promoted stats but gaining exp like an unpromoted unit. Dreads are much less impressive later on. Anyone with an existent magic growth (or even better, an existent tome rank) can rock Dark Flier though and it's a pretty broken class early on and stays broken for a loooooong time, which is probably why they locked it behind an even bigger paywall than Dread (3 routes instead of 2).
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none of the children?
Children are never more useful than their parents, in my experience. Even Velour, who is a straight upgrade to Flannel, isn't useful because whoever Flannel is being pair up fodder for is likely better than both of them by the time you get her.
A super early recruited Effie!Lutz in Nohr (comparable bases to Belka and if the current growth formula is assumed correct, has ~ 40%HP, 60% Str, 55% Spd, 50% Skl, 65% Def growths as a Wyvern which is ridiculous and can inherit HP +5 and Def +2 easily) or +Str Kamui!Shigure (who has problems existing anyway) are the only notable kids that make a difference, aside from drop in staffbots like Foleo and Dia who are better off recruited later.
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My team size in the routes is usually:
Hoshido: 5 combat pairs (most recent pairings are Ryoma/Kagerou, Silas/Hinoka, Takumi/Hana, Kamui/Servant, and Oboro/Saizou), Crimson (and maybe some pair up fodder for her which makes it 6 combat pairs), Staffbot, and Azura.
Nohr: 6 combat pairs (Kamui/Servant, Zero/Belka, Leo/Felicia, Marx/Charlotte, Effie/Flannel, Camilia/Harold), Azura, and a staffbot.
IK: 4 combat pairs at most prior to chapter 18, where I'll fit in a 5th, Azura, and a staffbot. Lowmanning is much more encouraged in IK than the other routes.
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Well, Nohr sometimes makes me appreciate having a healer who can not die (and also counter). There's Fuuga's map where the wind mechanic is irrational when it leaves your healers alone with an enemy they can't escape from, so it'd be good if they could take an attack while your fliers position themselves to come to rescue next turn. C24 (Hinoka's map) is another chapter where not playing carefully / not activating Dragon Veins in a timely manner can seriously endanger your weaker units. Both Fuuga and Hinoka are notoriously difficult to one-round KO, so the fancy 2-3 turn strategies designed for getting to the seize point ASAP on those maps won't do it for the regular player seeking reliability.
Mostly, I just find Leo's chip extremely meaty when finishing off weakened enemies with Brunusuififo, which I can hardly say about Felicia's combat with the Exploding Shuriken or Elise's combat with lolFire, so if he could be the healer I take along with me, there is more than one thing I'd have him contribute.
If you don't choose Strategist Leo, Asura in his default class also makes a great healer who can counter at 1-range with the Short Bow and at 1-2 range with the Shining Bow (I've got him to one-round enemies with it before through Attack Stance in spite of his low magic). Of course, LTCers trade him over for a pair of Boots.
Leo's a ORKO machine. At base he has like, 33 Atk hitting resistance (30 + 2 Devilish Wind + 1 Weapon rank bonus), 35 with magic tonic. W/ Felicia pair up, tonics, and possibly spd food (milk in Nohr) he has 21 AS, 37 Atk which lets him ORKO the Zerkers, Sorcs, and every unpromoted enemy save the Outlaws. Even in his join chapter, he OHKOs the Bowmen and with Luna pair up he ORKOs the Oni Savages which makes up 2/3rds of the map. 17 and 19 are admittedly awkward for him, but if he gets a speed proc in C16 and builds C support with Felicia he can hit 22 speed to ORKO the puppets in 17 in addition to the pupeteers in 17 with good accuracy due to bind. Chapter 18 he can ORKO the Paladins with 21 AS along with still ORKOing the Sorcs and he 2HKOs the General boss(es) because defensive formation so he can definitely put in work there. If he gets the N17 speedwings he could probably even hit 25 spd to ORKO the bow Knights/Heroes or if you have Azura's special dance that works too.
Long story short he's way too good of an offensive unit to be relegated to Chip n' Heal.
Why not beat the ch8 Soldier before his visiting instead of just Freeze him?
I see the route you're talking about and I wonder why I've never tried it.
Yeah, not many characters are that good on that map. If Leo has trouble surviving as a Strategist, then what does that say about Felicia and Elise? I think the inability to double the Golems and the constant waves of reinforcements giving 0 experience is more than enough incentive to flierskip that map even if you're not LTCing.
I never considered Freezing the Soldier on that map though. Isn't visiting 3 villages the same as visiting all 5 in terms of the reward you get?
fwiw The enemies that don't have Nihilistic Curse (0 exp) give fairly generous experience and it's good for building support between Marx and Charlotte since he doesn't get much of a chance to in 21 (wind is sorta obnoxious).
Also yes, visiting 3 is the same as 5. I tend to visit the initial one, the lower left one and the lower middle one, skipping the northmost one and the middle right one entirely. But I just realized a different route I could take now.
The main gripe is that even though Leon can cap speed even as a dark knight, his speed cap is unbelievably terrible at 25. That means he has to rely on a fast support (Maid Felicia/Adventurer Nyx) to be competent by late to end game. But if you like bulk enough, he's still pretty fantastic most of the Nohr route.
Tbh it's not a problem until reeaallly late, like N27 late and N27 is derp. Even in N26 a capped spd Leo with Felicia S rank and tonic is at 32 speed and spd food puts him at 33 so he doubles everything on the map except the 29 spd Zerkers.
The average Leo fails to cap speed at /20 actually... But yeah, he's slow and the extra 2-3 points of speed as a Strategist can be quite helpful. Dark Knight Leo is also a great defensive support partner for a mage unit, too, providing magic, defence and mobility - basically everything a mage wants. Strategists aren't bad pair up partners either, though luck is nowhere as welcome as phys defence is. Still, you gotta wonder who Leo will be supporting - Bolt Axe Camilla or what? I mean, MU would rather have their servant as a pair-up partner because of the servant's individual skill.
Has anybody really managed to turn Leo into a second Xander of sorts anyway? He hasn't been as good as the other siblings in my experience, and maybe that's why I'm thinking a utility role for him would be more effective to the army.
Treat Leo the way you treat Marx (speedwings, +Spd support), and you'll get more or less the same unit. The difference between them is actually sorta big in IK in Leo's favor because with Exorcist Sakura support and Horse God access Leo ORKOs more enemy types at base than Marx, resulting in Leo gaining exp quicker.
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I'd say he's better as a Dark Knight. Bulk mage is his defining niche, and on average Leo is fast enough to double what you need him to. The extra magic from Strategist is superfluous since Leo overkills anything he doubles anyway except Falcoknights. This goes double for IK where Leo needs that bulk because IK enemies are very strong. Pairing off Leo with a good magic waifu (Felicia or Nyx) will give you a high magic Foleo anyway who can serve your mounted healing needs and Elise has been with you forever. Out of curiosity, is there a situation where you need a healer to take a hit? I'd be lying if I said I didn't have Sakura get whacked here or there in the Hoshido early game, but I don't think I've ever taken a healer to the front unless I need to use a status staff (fun fact: did you know base Elise can take one hit from Flora in chapter 8? It's important because the tile 1 south of Flora is just barely close enough to use Freeze on the Soldier who targets the middle left village).
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Just use him as a staffbot.
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I mean, assuming you aren't grinding, you can make a tier list. But unit balanced is pretty good in Birthright and Conquest, so a tier list isn't too important. Nothing like the GBA games where some characters were absolutely useless.
does not take approve of unit discrimination. -
Definitely trying Elfie!Lutz next time I replay Nohr. How does such a Lutz compare to Beruka in semi-efficient play?
I don't get how you had any success with Servant!Kannas though. +mag MU + Felicia or something? I always get really atrocious ones that aren't good at either combat or pair up, but I can see how the right build and a timely reclass can help out and actually result in, uh, something?
Effie!Lutz is like, the best kid ever. He'd be better than Belka down the line, but they are pretty comparable at first. With some serious focus you could get Effie!Lutz by C13. I have a random play file on C14, checking the bases of Effie!Lutz who inherits Arthur's HP+5 and Effie's Defense +2 at that time (Effie is GK promoted as well, but I'm not sure that has much of an effect on his bases), he is level 14 with 30 HP, 16 Strength, 14 Skill, 12 Speed, 17 (capped) Luck, 20 Defense, 5 Resistance, and D rank axes, halfway to C. Belka's relevant level 14 averages are approx 26 HP, 17 (Str +2 skill included) Str, 17 Skill, 11 Speed, 12 Luck, 17 Defense, and 8 Res. A Belka that has been used to that point will definitely have C Axes though, but Lutz will have a readily available C support with Arthur that grows quickly due to them being related.
Also for Servant!Kanna I just meant the easy and early part to apply to them since Kamui can marry the servant by like C11 or something crazy like that. Not so much practical for combat, but an early recruited +Mag Dia/Deere would give you another Troubadour to have around which is nice.
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Elfie x Flannel? I've never considered that pairing. Elfie getting more speed is nice, but Flannel would also want more speed through Pair Up rather than extra strength and physical bulk, of which he already has enough.
What will Velour have that Flannel lacks anyway? How much will you have to level both him and Elfie to get a good enough Velour; and if you level both enough, won't they be more than strong enough to not require being replaced by their child? Flannel namely, since he's the 1-range one-round KO machine.
It's a pretty amazing pairing. Flannel being locked to 1 range and having an unforgable weapon is kind of a PITA. Tbh as good his frontal combat is, he's better off supporting. After all, he is to female physical units what Charlotte is to male Physical units. Velour is pretty much a slightly less durable but faster Flannel but she's bulky enough. Still, no kids have ever had anything to offer over their trained parents with maxed support ranks. In Nohr Effie!Lutz is probably the easiest, earliest, most practical kid you could get aside from Servant!Kanna and early recuiting him gives you another statistically competent Flier by like C13 who can take his father for a support option which is nice so there's potential there but other than that I don't see much use for the kids.
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I i see you didn't said anything about good guard stance slaves or something like that, imo rinka is one of the best for it simply for good str and def bonuses (Ryoma would like it, wouldn't he?) For example~
But i see the point of getting Rinka and Yomi at the bottom tier, i was also dissapointed by Rinka growths, her weapon rank and maybe even bases. What a waste tho, i like her dessing and that she's only one deflaut oni savage in game. :S
Edit: I see you wrote "no link bonuses" However if someone want to use someone to just support other unit, always good to point this out~
His list didn't include support bots. It was more "how does this character perform as a combat unit except for staffers".
Edit: I do agree that Rinka's bonuses are pretty damn helpful early on.
Resource Management in Nohr/Conquest
in Fire Emblem Fates
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Nohr has a lot of money, you just have to go out of your way to get it. You'll be fine.