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Posts posted by astrophys
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who needs Rally Movement when you've got Rally Heart.
They stack. Use both as a Rally to get +2 Move (+1 from each). Each extra space of move increases the amount of tiles you can reach by more than the last one.
Dark Flier's ratings are lower and even though it has a few benefits its still not the best fit for Cordelia.
Well, in a DLC postgame setting, the fact that DF gets a 1-2 ranged Brave is actually a substantial advantage in tactical options (for example, Brave attack an enemy who has Brave weapons themselves but stay out of their range).
Cordelia - Dark Flier
Galeforce
Vengeance [or another skill]
All Stats+2/Speed +2
Limit Breaker
Lancefaire or Armsthrift
Paired up with a Grandmaster, rallies, and tonics, you gets:
42 [Dark Flier base] + 2 [personal SPD mod] + 2 [sPD tonic] + 10 [Limit Breaker] + 10 [Rallies] + 7 [Grandmaster pair-up] + 2 [sPD +2] = 75
You get a unit capable of of doubling all enemies on Apotheosis; Avatar boosts STR/MAG/SKL/SPD
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Well, if we assume [child + parent]/2 (unconfirmed), Tsubaki x Orochi would give her a 40% growth in magic, whereas Tsubaki x Hinoka would give her a 15% growth and Tsubaki x Oboro would give a 17.5 growth.
Now, 20/20 is that likely, so I'm told… maybe 20/15 is a better guess… I'll still use 20/20 anyways for convenience…. let's compare the lead each character gets form growths over the lowest of these examples, Hinoka!Matoi:
20/20 stats:
Orochi!Matoi: +7.25 MAG over Hinoka!Matoi
Oboro!Matoi: +0.725 MAG over Hinoka!Matoi
Hinoka!Matoi: +0 (used as a baseline)
But skills is also a point….. Orochi gives MAG+2, Oboro and Hinoka give Lancefaire, which is +5 damage (although you lose 0.1 x 2 at minimum for the two levels you must be a Holy Lancer to get it; loss of 0.4 is you spend all four in Holy Lancer instead of Basara; so that's a 4.6 - 4.8 damage gain; Orochi gains 2 from Mag+2, so Oboro/Hinoka can gain on her a bit.)
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Hinoka is pretty much the best shockstick user in the game for Hoshido
Wouldn't this be some variants of Matoi once she's recruited? Yes, she has slightly less base magic, but they have identical (default) growths and Matoi gets Prodigy for +4 damage situationally, which should more than outweigh the magic difference. Plus, Matoi has multiple ways to get Lancefaire in the late game: Hinoka/Oboro as her mother, marrying a Lance Fighter male Avatar, marrying a Lance Fighter male Kanna, or marrying Shinonome.
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In terms of stat modifications, Matoi is getting very little from Hinoka.
Str 1Mag 0Skl 2Spd 0Luk 0Def 3Res 2Yeah her Strength, Speed, and Resistance are patched up, but the stats that Tsubaki capitalizes on (Skill and Defense) are left unaltered, and Magic is left alone completely. In terms of classes, I'm sure that there is nothing wrong with Lance Fighter classes, but Hinoka!Matoi I feel doesn't really give much of anything Matoi would really want. In my opinion, it is easier to focus on Matoi's magical ability than her physical, which if going by the logic that "large area of mobility", makes Felicia a great mother for Matoi if you don't wish to give Matoi Dark Falcon.Well, I admit that I was hyped on Hinoka!Matoi at first because of "redhead waifu bias" and also placing a high value on the ability of Hinoka to pass down her Lance Fighter class to a kid instead of the Pegasus Warrior. That and higher growths +Dragon's Vein.
Although considering Shephen's arguments and reflecting on things, Oboro might be a better choice, both from practicality but also from stat mods:
Oboro!Matoi
Str 1 [same as Hinoka!Matoi]
Mag 0 [same as Hinoka!Matoi]Skl 4 [+2 compared to Hinoka!Matoi; punctuates Tsubaki's SKL mods]Spd 0 [same as Hinoka!Matoi; both fix SPD]Luk -1 [-1 from Hinoka!Matoi; overlaps with Tsubaki's LCK weakness]Def 5 [+2 compared to Hinoka!Matoi; punctuates Tsubaki's DEF mods]Res -1 [-3 compared to Hinoka!Matoi; overlaps with Tsubaki's RES weakness]So Oboro!Matoi has a bit more min-maxed stats, I suppose, with the stats that were focused on by Tsubaki (SKL, DEF) stronger and some of his weaker stats [Lck, RES] weaker.Lance Fighter actually can help her with her magic, as a tree….. Lancefaire gives her +5 damage with Lances, including the Shinrai Naginata (Shockstick). Basara has a higher base magic stat than does Falcon Warrior [5 vs. 4] and equal growths, so it will also always be at least 1 magic ahead of Falcon Warrior; Basara can use actual spells/tomes too. EDIT: But its also slower and gives different pair-up bonuses, so there's that…And even if you don't go magic, its an easy reclass that preserves weapon rank.Note that Matoi's natural growth rate is 15% magic by default. Her strength growth rate is 35% by default. She also has something like 8 as a personal base Str but only 3 as a personal base magic. So Matoi naturally leans towards STR for in-mage usage. Even if you give her a heavily magic mother, the highest she'd ever reach growth rate would be 40% or less [depending on how the calculations work], which is less than characters like Sakura, Nyx, Syalla, Orochi, Elise, +MAG Avatars (even +MAG/-LCK Avatars)….. although she does at least have Prodigy. -
Well, I'll describe my units in more detail…. Avatar is +SPD/-LCK, and like you (Mujuju) he also married Cordelia: A few of my units were early promoted in the level 16-18 range, whereas my other units were promoted at 20. Some also had resealings….
1. Chrom: (Lord -> Great Lord 20 --> Level 7 Paladin)
Paladin
73/73 HP
38 Str
10 Mag
40 Skl
41 Spd
34 Lck
35 Def
22 Res
A swords, B lances
Dual Strike+, Charm, Aether, Rightful King, Defender
2. Severa (20 Merc, 20 Hero, 12 hero)
Hero
80/80 HP
43 Str
17 Mag
48 Skl
49 Spd
37 Lck
40 Def
30 Res
A swords, B axes
Armsthrift, Patience, Galeforce, Sol, Axebreaker; also has Veteran [switched out in extreme late game when she started capping out].
3. Avatar (tactician 20 --> Grandmaster 20 ---> Grandmaster 6)
Grandmaster
63/63 HP
27 Str
27 Mag
32 Skl
36 Spd
26 Lck
22 Def
24 Res
A swords, A tomes
Solidarity, Ignis, Rally Spectrum, Veteran
4. Basilio - Base recruitment level
5. Flavia - Base recruitment level
Lucina - Lord --> immediate switch to Cavalier --> Paladin 17
68 HP
29 Str
9 Mag
39 Skl
40 Spd
37 Lck
27 Def
22 Res
A swords, B lances
Dual Strike +, Speed +2, Aether, Defender, Aegis, Discipline, Outdoor Fighter, Charm
Cordelia, Dark Flier (Pegasus 18 --> Dark Flier 20 --> Dark Flier 2)
60 HP
27 Str
12 Mag
36 Skl
34 Spd
21 Lck
25 Def
24 Res
Speed +2
Relief
Rally Movement
Galeforce
Morgan, Falcon Knight (Pegasus -> Tactician -> Grandmaster -> Falcon Knight 8)
70 HP
30 Str
26 Mag
43 Skl
44 Spd
34 Lck
30 Def
29 Res
B lances, E staves
Rally Spectrum, Rally Speed, Galeforce, Veteran, Ignis, Speed +2, Solidarity, Relief
Anna --/20 trickster
53 HP
20 Str
26 Mag
33 Skl
34 Spd
43 Lck
14 Def
17 Res
B swords, A staves; standard skills
Libra, --/20 War Monk
58 HP
23 Str
25 Mag
24 Skl
21 Spd [man, Libra's Speed STINKS!]
17 Lck
17 Def
21 Res
C axes, A staves; standard skills
Tharja ---> insta promoted to Dark Knight for quickly running up (8 move) next to Grima's left for Hexathema with just Rally movement….. not actual combat unit
Lissa 20/17 Sage
46 HP
14 Str
26 Mag
22 Skl
24 Spd
31 Lck
15 Def
17 Res
E tomes, A staves
Olivia, 17/0 dancer
30 HP
12 Str
11 Mag
20 Skl
20 Spd
16 Lck
5 Def
9 Res
Cynthia was a pair-up bot whom I basically criminally under-used to my detriment… she only got to 13/0 from dual strike EXP
Sumia: level 9 Falcon KNight
51 HP
20 Str
8 Mag
31 Skl
33 Spd
27 Lck
14 Def
20 Res
Skills up to Rally speed
A lances, E staves
Cherche was a pair-up bot and hammer bot….. got to level 14/0, 18+2 Str (which could still actually damage generals with Hammers, because Hammers are just that strong against them), B rank axes.
Gregor: Level 14 Hero (I promoted him at like 16, so 16/14 Hero; I think I also gave him some speed wings to try to help his speed)
54 HP
27 Str
3 Mag
30 Skl
26 Spd
17 Lck
22 Def
11 Res
A swords, C axes
Other characters:
Maribelle: 10/0, from early game staffing
Frederick: --/9
Say'ri: --/1
Henry: 12/0
Gaius 5/0
Lon'qu 10/0 (from early game)
Virion 3/0
Ricken 3/0
Miriel 1/0
Panne 6/0
Stahl 2/0
Nowi 3/0
Sully 2/0
Kellam 5/0
Vaike 3/0
Donnel 2/0
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One comment I'll make about the Tsubaki x Oboro/Hinoka pairings…
Generally, I think Shephen's reasoning is pretty good and I think I have to concede to his conclusions about in game practicality (Oboro x Tsubaki; Hinoka x Silas).
That said, if for some reason you were going to max out your Birthright characters, there is a possible catch:
Of Sophie's three buddy options, two of them are Nohrians; Matoi is her only Hoshidan option. This means that in Birthright her only available buddy seal class is form Matoi's Pegasus class; going Oboro x Tsubaki & Hinoka x Silas would produce skillsets of:
Oboro!Matoi: Pegasus, Samurai, Lancer
Hinoka!Sophie: Cavalier, Mercenary, Pegasus
So attempting to buddy Sophie with her only Birthirght buddy would be a waste of a buddy for her, as she cannot get Pegasus from Matoi when she already has it; but Matoi can still get Cavalier from Sophie. But this means that Hinoka!Sophie is permanently locked to four class sets (instead of five). This represents a loss of potential. It probably doesn't matter as she still has a bunch of good classes, but if you want her to have a full 5 class set its not going to let you do it.
So if you were interested in maximizing their class set options, Hinoka x Tsubaki & Oboro x Silas might be better for Hinoka & Sophie's capped outcomes.
In game, of course, I agree that Oboro x Tsubaki & Hinoka x Silas will be better as you probably aren't getting the kids to BOTH a marriage class AND a buddy class before the end of the game and even if you do you probably aren't class changing them so much to worry about it.
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Are those personal growth rates because they're really fucking awful.
Yes, those are Personal Growths….
Let's add on the class growths (I'll just do the base tree):
Pegasus:
HP - 55%
Str - 40%
Mag - 20%
Skl: 60%
Spd: 35%
Lck: 45%
Def: 45%
Res: 25%
Falcon:
HP - 55%
Str - 40%
Mag - 30%
Skl: 60%
Spd: 35%
Lck: 45%
Def: 45%
Res: 25%
Golden Kite:
HP - 55%
Str - 35%
Mag - 20%
Skl: 65%
Spd: 35%
Lck: 40%
Def: 45%
Res: 20%
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I didn't have Celica's Gale in this playthrough…. I wasn't using the Renown or Bonus Team shop features, and I didn't have the luck to get one from a shiny tile.
I actually did get Severa and Morgan caught up that way, but I didn't pull that off for Cynthia.
Sumia!Lucina's STR growth also fell behind by the endgame… I'm not sure whether I was RNG screwed there or whether it is due to Sumia's lower STR. She could still get kills, but often needed Aether to do it. I mean, Lucina had done stuff like tanked the reinforcements of Ch .17, and she fought several Berserkers in Severa's mission, Ambivalence, so there were places where she had gotten a lot of EXP.
Of course, Chrom was at an "unfair" advantage at the STR front, as I had started feeding him stat boosters that I got during the latter part of the campaign after I did some calculations about the STR he needed to do in order to do a meaningful amount of damage to the final boss. He ended up with 38 STR, which combined with weapon rank, tonics, and rallies let him deal 21 damage to the boss via dual strike (it would be 21.5, but damage rounds down).
I took two turns to beat Endgame… there's a region in the "danger zone" that isn't actually in danger, given that the wall in front of Grima doesn't move from its positions (the four on the sigils to the sides do, however). So that gives a free turn to bring my units up there and position for the decisive 2nd turn. It also means I don't need to rely on massive rescue abuse the turn (2nd) that I kill Grima; everyone can get into position just with some Rally Movement [in this case, courtesy of Cordelia)
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I don't really have Cynthia trained sufficiently to do that, actually… I focused the EXP on Lucina instead…
I do have a Levin Sword to attack them magically, and I do have tomes on the Avatar….
Well, I've beaten Ch. 22, so now I'm facing one of the two back-to-back big rout maps, Ch. 23.
Ch. 21 was done by deploying exactly 8 units, in four pairs of two, specifically my best trained units. As my healers weren't among these units, a variety of Concoctions etc. that I had from drops throughout the game came in handy. Severa + Avatar (her father) skirmished with Severa's Galeforce and a pair of killing edges (with the avatar occasionally using spells) to deal with the enemies… the Mire spells were hilariously inaccurate… but I can only imagine with horror what it would be like if some of the Mire spammers got Hawkeye in Lunatic+…. good thing for me I'm only on Lunatic.
I still have Tiki's paralogue and Gerome's paralogue as untapped EXP resources in case I want to "grind" out my troops without breaking my no-Reeking box, no random encounter, no DLC, no Spotpass guidelines. And I make a habit of leaving at least a large bullion unspent to ensure I have a reserve supply of cash…. although it only really needs to last through Ch. 23 and Ch. 24…. if things go as I want, I'll be "skipping" Ch. 25 with Galeforce abuse and Endgame should be ideally over in two turns.
EDIT: Ch. 23 now complete. Severa is an MVP with Axebreaker…. also, as it turned out, Gregor was able to chip in on the Generals after all…. he could survive an engagement with one, and his Hammer + Cherche Hammer Dual Strike + Hammer (as he could double Generals, even if not the other enemies) actually would slay the General. Of course, we also had Flavia and Basilio, who could help in similar capacity. I basically retreated to the top left corner and used a lot of Galeforce and Rescue skirmishing to chip away at the enemy….
Now one big rout (Ch. 24) left, then two defeat commanders.
Edit:
Ch. 24 was pure "hell on Earth", so to speak. Crazy Wyvern Lords with Hit +20, basically all of them with Swordbreaker, hack-forged Silver Lance ++, Great Knights with Luna, etc….
In the end, the only way I managed to win was to deploy ONLY Hero Severa and Paladin Chrom (force deployed). Thankfully, Severa was one of my more over leveled units.
The idea was Sol spam…. that, and she could use Axes, and thus not be at both weapon triangle disadvantage nor subject to Swordbreaker.
There was one catch…. her axe rank was E.
Fortunately, she had Armsthrift, and she also had access to Chrom's convoy. That and I had a forged Bronze Axe from back when I was training Gregor, plus a pair of glass axes that I had obtained.
During the opening stages of the battle I was able to get Severa to D-axes, letting her pull Hand Axes out of the Convoy and start attacking the ranged attackers to still get Sol.
And this process when on long enough to get her to B-axes by the end of the battle..
Severa's stats at the end of the Battle
Hero, Level 12, EXP 51 (note: level reset; previously 20/20 Hero with base stat inheritance from her parents).
80/80 HP (capped)
43 Str (capped)
17 Mag
48 Skl (capped)
49 Spd (capped)
37 Lck
40 Def (capped)
30 Res
Skill set used in battle: Armsthrift, Patience, Axebreaker, Galeforce, Sol…
All of this in "no-grind".
Conclusion… a really highly leveled Avatar!Child hero does the map VERY well. If you don't have a Nosferatank, this is another option.
EDIT: Beat Lunatic/Classic
Grima had me place Dark Knight Tharja to his left for Hexathema, had character rally for STR, Spectrum, Mag, SPD, LCK, Move. Avatar and Chrom were loaded up on all relevant tonics. Avatar was using a +1 Might forged Brave Sword; Chrom was using the Exalted Falcion. They had A support (male Avatar).
I was highly fortunate the first time around, in that the Avatar proc'd Ignis 4 times in a row (for 5 damage apiece) and Chrom dual striked 4 times in a row, for 21 damage per hit, all of them hitting. As such, I dealt 104 damage to Grima, when I only needed to deal 99 to kill him.
Grima proc'd Ingis and it hit the Avatar, inflicting 55 HP of damage.
If things had not worked, I had Anna with a ranged healing staff and Olivia in dancing range, so I could have launched a second barrage on Grima.
Severa cleared the Berserker in front of Grima to let the others in. She did it unpaired (but rallied) with a Brave Sword; the Berserker had a 0% hit chance and Severa had a guaranteed kill. (I think I gave her a full array of tonics as I new she'd take this role).
Gold: Chrom: 342 Battles, 204 Victories [this might be a first for me, having him win the gold]
Silver: Avatar: 219 Battles, 144 Victories
Bronze: Cordelia: 167 Battles 131, Victories
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So, I'm doing a 2nd Lunatic/Classic playthrough, except this time I haven't used Renown rewards, I haven't done grinding, and I haven't used DLC or spotpass. I do use items I get randomly from the barracks, but I don't deliberately check in at various hours of the day to get them; I just move ahead at a steady pace and just grab them as I go.
Anyways, the 1st time I did it, I just cheesed everything with Nosferatu and by Ch. 16 or so I was mainly just using an Armsthrift Sorcerer Avatar + A-support Chrom solo-pair run.
This time I'm playing it with an actual team.
I just beat Ch. 20: The Sword or the Knee this afternoon. I cannot remember exactly, but I think I'm something like +SPD asset, -LCK flaw, or something like that. I'm playing as a male Avatar and he's married Cordelia.
My team is:
1.Avatar - Grandmaster (now on first Second Seal level reset) - married to Cordelia; A-rank with Chrom
2. Cordelia - Dark Flier (she did this to get Galeforce, plus to boost her husband's magic in pair-up)
3. Cordelia!Morgan - 10 Pegasus/10 Tactician/14 Grandmaster/3 Falcon Knight - inherited Galeforce and Rally Spectrum
4. Avatar!Severa - 20 Mercenary/4 Hero - inherited Galeforce and Veteran
5. Chrom - Paladin (Lord --> Great Lord ---> Paladin) - has an A-rank with the Avatar.
6. Sumia - Falcon Knight [level 8 promoted or so, she's mainly a support unit for Chrom]
7. Sumia!Lucina - Paladin (Lord --> Cavalier --> Great Lord; inherited Aether and Speed +2); she's around level 14 Paladin
8. Chrom!Cynthia - Pegasus Knight ---> She's basically an "equipment" for Lucina… she's just gives Lucy +SPD/+RES and dual guard support; she's still non-promoted
9. Gregor - Hero -- married to Cherche…..
10. Cherche - Wyvern Rider - basically an "equipment" for Gregor
----> These have probably been some of my poorer choices; Gregor cannot really double all that much [except vs. slow enemies like Generals] without Rally Spectrum or Rally Speed assistance…. but despite this, they do fill one key niche… they have a better axe rank than anyone else on my team [severa is still in E-axes, C or B swords], so they get to take down Generals with their Hammers.
Staffers -
11. Libra, 12. Lissa, 13. Anna;
(Morgan also has staff access as a back up, but its not her primary job)
Hexathema bot - 14. Tharja
Dancer - 15. Olivia
So now I need to get through Ch. 21 next time I play… Mire spam foes… FUN! Then we have the Deadlords in Ch. 22, the rout in Ch. 23, the rout in Ch. 24, the defeat commander in Ch. 25 (my plan is to have Cordelia and Morgan double Galeforce to defeat Aversa), and Endgame [i'll buy a brave weapon for the Avatar, put him in front, boost his (HP+DEF) sum total to exceed 90 to survive Grima's Ignis'd Expiration, and have Chrom Falchion Dual-striek form the rear… I'll also want Tharja to be dropped right next to Grima to boost my accuracy by 25%… and naturally, Basilio (who I will have by that point) and Morgan will be providing rallies…. if I recall correctly, I have something like 36 Str on Chrom (or is it 34? I have a stat booster that could raise it to 36 if it isn't already… doesn't matter)… so let's just say (36 STR + 15 x 3 (Exalted Falchion effective damage) + 2 tonic +4 Rally Strength + 4 Rally Spectrum - 50 (Grima's Defense) - 3 (Ire's defense bonus to Grima) ) /2 = 19 damage…. if I get two more STR before the end of the game [quite a reasonable expectation], that would be 20 damage…
So that would mean I'd need 5 strikes from Chrom to connect [assuming the 20 damage figure] to kill Grima, totally ignoring any damage that might be dealt by the Avatar… so I'd need to go two rounds against Grima, although dancing if done properly could account for that… and I need Catharsis or Physic staves to patch me up unless there was a dual guard.
If I don't get enough dual strikes, I can reset the game and try for better RNG; Endgame is not a long level…
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Yeah, I think you might be right there….
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I like the strategic implications of marriages, particularly with the marriage seal development (and the flavor of them getting the class could be thought of their spouse teaching them the trade, so there's at least some line of reasoning that could justify it). I'd also be lying if I denied liking the "waifu" aspect of things.
I like the children from the standpoint of my inner min-maxer, but seeing that I've loved games like The Sacred Stones without them, they aren't essential; I'm fine if they go, but I'm also fine if they stay.
Magic triangle would be nice.
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Thing is, Tsubaki is actually much easier to deploy and S-rank since he has a fast support with Kazahana. In Lunatic, by constantly pairing the two up, I unlocked Matoi's paralogue right after chapter 10. And even then, Tsubaki still held up pretty well past that point and was usable for the most parts.
On that note, how did Hana!Matoi turn out? I imagine that she could be fairly good… she doesn't get Lancefaire (on her own; marriage to a Lance Fighter Avatar or Shinonome can address this), but that's a really late-game skill anyways and won't come into play for much of the game.
In the meantime, her growths seem to position her as a glass cannon…. it should be less HP, MAG, LCK, and DEF DEF/RES than a royal like Hinoka, but superior STR, SKL, and SPD, which should mean that overall she'd also tend to have somewhat more killing power prior to the arrival of weaponfaires….
Which skill did you inherit onto her? Perhaps a Flowing Strike + Swallow Strike combination by passing down Flowing?
Also, to test a hypothesis, if you still have the file, does she give +2 Str, +1 Spd, and +2 Def to her S-rank partner beyond that which her class alone would grant?
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That's a good point…. certain units have weapons they come with or in their paralogue, so depending on how good the weapons are, it might be worth trying to get them, even if you don't use them, so that the main members of your team can get those weapons…
I mean, I suppose Odin could be used as pair-up fodder to some other magic user to get Ophelia and her weapons…
On Hohsido, Tsubaki produces Matoi, who brings us a free Swordslayer Nagainata.
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Well, I do confess a bias for wanting Hinoka!Matoi (for the hair), although there is the awkwardness that that makes her my [character's] niece & wife simultaneously
, or rather, to be more accurate, my [character's] step-neice & wife
, so that pairing does carry incestuous vibes. I'd probably go ahead with it anyways, but that's how it is….
As for upgrading your castle, keep in mind that you only get infinite seals after Ch. 20 or so…. Hinoka is joining you in 8. You get 3 purchasable parallel seals before then (1, then 2). So, yes, I can indeed re-class her, but it also shuts down other character's early reclass options, so there is a real cost there. Also, there would be the cost of only having Tsubaki as my flier for a few chapters… this can be worked around, but it is a cost nonetheless.
Yes, you can visit other castles, but my internet connection here is kind of temperamental, so its not something I want to assume…. I'd rather assume in-game resources.
But yes, I do like Hinoka!Matoi's growths better; Hinoka has 305% and Oboro has 280%, while Matoi has 285% by default; Oboro will drag her down ever so slightly on the net, while Hinoka will lift her up…
If my growth hypthoses is correct, Hinoka!Matoi vs. Hinoka have these growths:
Totals:
Hinoka!Matoi: 295%
Hinoka: 305% [she wins, although she elevates Hinoka to halve the gap from a 20% lead (vs. 285%) to only a 10% lead (vs. 295%)]
HP: 50% vs. 45% [Matoi wins, +5%]
Str: 40% vs. 45% {Hinoka wins, +5%]
Mag: 15% vs 15% [identical]
Skl: 40% vs. 40% [identical]
Spd: 42.5% vs. 45% [Hinoka wins, +2.5%]
Lck: 42.5% vs. 40% [Matoi wins, +2.5%]
Def: 35% vs. 35% [identical]
Res: 30% vs. 40% [Hinoka wins, +10%]
A 10% RES difference is the largest divergence that they have, in Hinoka's favor.
I believe that Hinoka might also have better default bases than Matoi does, which will give her a bit of a league. But I'm not exactly sure how parents enhance kid's bases, so these enhancements might or might not make up for it.
As for Mods:
Hinoka: +1 Str, -1 Mag, -1 Skl, +1 Spd, +0 Lck, -1 Def, +2 Res
Matoi: +1 Str, +0 Mag, +2 Skl, +0 Spd, +0 Lck, +3 Def, +2 Res
Matoi wins in Mag, Skl, and Def. She ties in Str, Lck, and Res. She loses in Spd.
But yes, for most things that matter she'd be Hinoka 2.0.
Although their personal skills would differentiate them some more…. Encouragement and Prodigy have very different functions.
I also agree that a MAG Matoi might also be interesting, particular considering a MAG avatar that I'm planning…. Granted, the highest MAG matoi, Orochi Matoi (who also gets +2 MAG) also has an awful SPD mod and subpar growth, but SPD caps won't come into play in the main game, so its just the growth that could be the issue… although its still better than what Tsubaki has and should give her something like twice his MAG growth rate…. 40% Mag growth if my hypothesis is right as a Pegasus and 50% as a Falcon Warrior…. even 60% as an Excorcist [not idea, but its only 10% less than what Sakura would do]. Although there is also the matter of bases.
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I was discussing Tsubaki pairings for Matoi on reddit, and Shephen offered some commentary….
https://www.reddit.com/r/fireemblem/comments/3oe9zf/how_would_you_ranktier_these_variants_of_this/
He recommended Oboro and Setsuna as topic picks for in-game efficiency… Hinoka was placed a bit lower because:
Worse pair up stats unless Hinoka goes Lancer, and you have to basically cut the number of fliers you have in half since you gain support points faster together which hurts. But Baki and Matoi both get the Lancer Line and their skills which is all they really need. -
Forging is a might/hit/etc. bonus. Yato is a STR/SPD/DEF/RES bonus. They're separate, stacking bonuses.
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Or, I know that you always get the Yato bonus…. that's true enough. However, in the final battles of the game its also a:
16 might weapon with no particular drawbacks
does 75% against Dragonskin instead of 50%.
EDIT to be more polite in how I phrase it… Then again, the TC is asking about PvP, so I suppose this comes down to different prioritization's…. had forgotten and was thinking about in-game optimization…..
On in-game…
Example, the Lunatic IK final boss has 36 DEF and 28 DEF in its final form.
To deal 20 damage to it with other weapons, for example, you'd need:
Physical: 76 ATK
Magical: 68 ATK
To do it with Yato, you'd need:
63 ATK
Given what's realistically practical to achieve in the main game in terms of stacking damage [without stuff like flagrant skill purchase abuse, grinding + Eternal Seals, etc.), you're most likely to get your best damage against the final boss with the Yato. Moreover, any damage stacking that you do on other weapons can also be stacked onto the Yato, except that it scales at 75% instead of 50%… yes, there are Braves, of course, but with their much lower base might and only 50% damage, you'd need to do a TON of stacking to get them to surpass Yato.
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SECOND EDIT: Oops, I misread this and didn't see that you had gone to Wyvern Kanna…. in that case, the magic makes sense, you actually have 1 less base STR and equal growths (so you're actually STR blessed), etc.
EDIT:
Responding to #1756, CompteSecours
Actually, that's not too far off from what I'd expect based on my own guesses of how things work, STR wise….
Jakob has a 30% STR growth and Kanna has a 35% personal growth…. The class has a base of 7, Kanna has a personal base of 3, and the class has a 15% growth…
Nohr Prince bases; 17 HP, 7 Str, 3 Mag, 4 Skl, 5 Spd, 2 Lck, 5 Def, 2 Res
Kanna personal base: 7 HP, 3 Str, 6 Mag, 8 Skl, 8 Spd, 9 Lck, 5 Def, 5 Res
Jakob growths: 50% HP, 30% Str, 15% Mag, 40% Skl, 35% Spd, 45% Lck, 25% Def, 25% Res
Kanna growths: 30% HP, 35% Str, 30% Mag, 40% Skl, 45% Spd, 45% Lck, 25% Def, 25% Res
Nohr Prince growth: 15% HP, 15% Str, 10% Mag, 10% Skl, 10% Spd, 10% Lck, 10% Def, 5% Res
Expectation under my averaged variable + kid hypothesis:
My prediction: 27.85 HP, 13.325 Str, 11.275 Mag, 15.5 Skl, 16.5 Spd, 14.85 Lck, 12.45 Def, 9.1 Res
Your results: 30 HP, 14 Str, 8 Mag, 19 Skl, 16 Spd, 16 Lck, 14 Def, 9 Res
The only thing that bothers me here is that Kanna's magic stat, 8, is less than the sum of her personal and class bases, so that suggests that her bases can be subtracted from, something I haven't seen before….
From bases, she'd start with 24 HP… its possible to gain 6 HP levels, so that's fine. Str is fine… Bases would start at level 10 with 12 SKl, so getting blessed in SKL could definitely account for 19 Skl (get it every level by chance)… speed is near expectation…. luck seems plausibly blessed…. DEF is actually blessed according to my predictions [i expected a base of 10 and then gaining 2.45 due to a predicted 35% growth over 7 levels]…. RES is slightly screwed [i expected a base of 7 and then a gain of two points to 9, but you might have missed one and only gotten 8].
But yeah, except for having less magic than I thought was even possible in the first place [showing something is wrong with my predictions], everything seems reasonable enough or something that could come from a stat bless or screw…
Actually, even if the Avatar was involved, (60%+35%+30%)/3+15% = 13.9666, so actually 14 Str is perfectly reasonable… its actually pretty much near the expectation.
Original post:
Final boss discussion, assumed 20/15 levels, 3rd route; using Avatar x Matoi
And either red-hair Matoi (Luna!Matoi, Hinoka!Matoi) would give +3 SPD at S-rank (+2 class, +1 personal), give at least +4 DEF (+2 class, +3 personal for Luna, +2 personal for Hinoka), and at least the +2 STR of the class [+3 (+2+1) for Luna]. And +2 SKL….
Looking at a 20/15 Avatar, +MAG/-LCK (start level 1 Nohr Prince, gain 19 Nohr Prince, promote to White Blood, 8 levels White Blood, 2 Dark Blood, 4 Trueblade), we have averages [which of course, vary in actual runs] of 40 HP, 28 Str, 25 Mag, 24 Skl, 27 Spd, 16 Lck, 22 Def, and 14 Res…..
So with either of them, we'd be hitting an average of 60[Hinoka!Matoi]-61[Luna!Matoi] ATK power [after +damage effects] due to 28 STR + 16 Might + 4 Yato STR + 3 A-rank weapon + 2 tonic + 2 minimum Str pair [+3 for Luna!Matoi] + 5 from Swordfaire = 60. After that, just plopping Camilla down onto the square next to use gives us 63 attack, which should, if I understand Dragonskin's interaction with Swordfaire and the like correctly, result in 20 damage even against the 36 DEF final form.
27 SPD (27.1 on average, the SPD from Trueblade helps) plus the +3 speed either gives, plus five from Yato (possession + katana boost) plus a speed tonic puts us at 37 SPD, more than enough to double….
22 DEF + 4 Yato -1 Katanna +4 or 5 [Hinoka!Matoi/Luna!Matoi] = 29 or 30 DEF… Camilla's bewitching flower pushes up to 30 or 31 effectively… the prior form has 66 PHY attack, so that could be a 35 or 36 damage expectation… on average its survivable… with pair-up, its even survivable without Camilla…
14 RES +4 -1 +0 for Luna!Matoi or +1 for Hinoka Matoi, and +1 effective from Camilal, gives us 18 or 19 effective RES…. 30 or 29 damage…. survivable….
Oh, and since we're in Guard stance, the basic pattern of Kamui attack - boss attack - Kamui attack builds up 6 shield gauge… and an Astra generates 10…. So if Kamui went into the first battle with 2 shield already built up, it would go: 2 --> (Kamui attack) 4 --> boss attack (6) --> Kamui attack (8) ---> Kamui gets danced for [and doesn't even need to be healed] ---> Kamui attacks [get 10 shield meter] ---> boss attacks and support partner dual guards the attack, no damage --> Kamui attacks.
For hit: +2 SKL from pair, +2 SKL and +4 Lck from tonics, 24 SKL and 16 LCK from average stats ,Bind, and Yato brings us up to a starting value of 87% hit…. being next to Camilla would give our guard stance about +4 hit from the generic bonuses, so 91%…. Consuming two Goddess icons during the game (to help deal with our LCK flaw) would give +4 hit [one in Ch. 4, one from I think Ch.10]… so that's 95% hit. Put ourselves next to another unit standing to our side and that's 99%. A secret book and that's a 101.5% hit rate. If we are below our average skill or luck, someone can rally skill or luck for us….
As for attack we haven't assumed Energy Drops and only used Camilla's boost, we also have safety margin of using Energy drops, Hinoka, Elise, Rally Strength, etc. if our damage falls below the predicted average, so we have safety margins….
Same with HP/DEF/RES/SPD (stat boosters\rally if needed]
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Oops, you're right, I got confused!
Yes, Avatar has to marry Shigure to do that. I'll put a correction in my earlier post.
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Voting for different people on each day doesn't make that much sense, unless you're confident that one of your picks will have a runaway victory anyways… you just dilute your votes and increase the chances that someone else will overtake the character you had preferred the most.
So, for instance, I will only vote for Matoi on the female side as any vote I cast for another woman is a vote that could have bolstered Matoi's position, weakening the chances of my candidate winning.
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Base class.
Azura gets nothing. [Rather, she gets Pegasus, but she already has Pegasus, so its redundant and wasted.]
Hinoka gets Rod Knight (due to the special non-transferable class rule, then the corollary for that rule in the event of a primary-secondary share that results in the replacement of Singer with Rod Knight).
Shigure cannot get Lance Fighter except through Avatar (EDIT)
parentagemarriage. -
List of A-sword (or better) classes, for reference:
White Blood: A-sword, A-stone, B-staves
Trueblade: S-sword
Weapons Master: A-sword, B-lance, B-axes
Dread Fighter (Link Bonus/DLC): A-sword, B-axes, B-kunai
Dark Blood: A-sword, A-stone, B-tome
Paladin: A-sword, A-lance
Brave Hero: A-sword, B-axes
Lodestar (DLC): S-sword
Vanguard (DLC): A-sword, B-axes
Great Lord (DLC): A-sword, B-lances
As for promoted classes with B-swords:
Elite Ninja: S-kunai, B-swords
Blacksmith: A-axes, B-swords
Dark Knight: A-tomes, B-swords
Bow Knight: A-bows, B-swords
Great Knight: A-lances, B-swords, B-axes
Grandmaster (DLC): A-tomes, B-swords
So these are the classes that can utilize Yato when promoted. As its a powerful weapon and Kamui's personal weapon, Kamui should probably end in one of the sword wielding classes in either of the above two lists.
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Um… Hinata would give him Samurai, which is wasted… buddy seal's aren't the most intelligent things when looking at your class sets.
You get the secondary class only if your primaries match exactly [e.g., Hinoka and Tsubaki are both Pegasus Warrior primaries and trade secondaries].
But Odin's primary is Dark Mage (secondary Samurai) and Hinata is primary Samurai and secondary Oni.
So Odin gets Samurai from buddy seal… which he already has, so its pointless and wasted.
Hinata gets Dark Mage from buddy sealing Odin.
So no, Odin CANNOT get Ogre Strike from Hinata.
You can transfer Oni Savage to Odin by an Avatar, but not by a buddy seal… you need to MARRY him with a female Avatar who has an Oni Savage secondary. That's the only way she can give him Oni; the male cannot do it.
The Pairing Thread
in Fire Emblem: Awakening
Posted
How would a +SPD/-DEF Avatar!Severa/Cordelia!Morgan Valkyrie pair with a Dark Knight pair-up?
I understand that Sage is perhaps a more conventional choice, but Dark Knight allows for greater overall mobility of the double-gale pair (+1 move to the Valkyrie on the pair-up, +2 move for a Dark Knight over the Sage).
Granted, DKs don't have staves, but you could always end your turn with the Valkyrie in the lead and have them rescue.
You could cover 11 squares when rallied with the Valkyrie (8+2 rallies + 1 pair-up) and 10 squares (8 +2 rallies) with the Dark Knight….
+SPD/-DEF Valkyrie Severa/Morgan would have, before skills equipped to herself:
HP: 80 +5 tonic = 85 HP
STR: 32 + 2 tonic + 10 Limit Breaker + 10 Rallies +3 pair-up [generic] = 57 Str
MAG: 42 +2 tonic + 10 Limit Breaker + 10 Rallies + 7 pair-up [Dark Knight] = 71 Mag
SKL: 43 +2 tonic + 10 Limit Breaker + 10 Rallies + 3 pair-up [generic] = 68 Skl
SPD: 50 +2 tonic + 10 Limit Breaker + 10 Rallies + 3 pair-up [generic] = 75 Spd [threshold: doubles Anna]
LCK: 46 +2 tonic + 10 Limit Breaker + 14 Rallies + 3 pair-up [generic] = 75 Lck
DEF: 28 +2 tonic + 10 Limit Breaker + 10 Rallies + 8 pair-up [Dark Knight] = 58 Def [threshold: survives Ragnell Paladin's Rightful God Aether]
RES: 44 +2 tonic + 10 Limit Breaker + 10 Rallies + 6 pair-up [Dark Knight] = 72 Res
Move: 8 + 2 Rallies + 1 pair-up [Dark Knight] = 11 Move
As for the Dark Knight partner, the generic SPD of an unmodified DK is 40, so 40 +10 rallies + 10 Limit Breaker + 2 tonics + 7 [Valkyrie SPD pair-up] = 69, so they'd be able to double all but three of the enemies on the map with a neutral or better mod.
I was imagining that Severa and Morgan and their Dark Knight partner could use their mounted mobility +DK movement pair-up bonus to cover huge amounts of ground, Galeforce killing where needed, then on their third action they could either kill a third floor or act as an extra staff bot, teleporting in allies from 35 squares away before skills (76 MAG once Tomefaire is accounted for, so 38 squares away)
Their skillset could be 1. Limit Breaker, 2. Galeforce, 3. Ignis or Luna, 4. Tomefaire, and 5. Proc stack or convenient skill [for example, Armsthrift, so they only need to hold one weapon in their inventory and can stock up the other four slots with stuff like Rescue, Fortify, Recover, etc. to act as an additional back-up staffer].
What do you think?