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Posts posted by astrophys
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Well, true….
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Hisame asking Kanna (F) and Matoi out for tea…. interesting….
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So, basically, after beating Ch. 6 (or is it 7?)
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Fair enough… you two raise a good point…. I was a bit too sweeping with my statements/interpretations. I offer a retraction/apology.
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Got mine, not online, but in store at Bloor Street (Toronto)…. as of about 35 minutes ago, there was still about one left (after accounting for the one that I ordered). Someone might have got it between now and then, but I have no way of knowing… who knows, there still might be a chance for someone here if they live in Toronto.
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Most of the players whom I've spoken to who have played the game on Lunatic (I myself haven't played it) have asserted that pair-up still tends to be the superior strategy overall, just not as overwhelmingly superior as it had been before.
If this is true, then asking for a pair-up is essentially irrelevant as we can presume that most of your units will tend to use pair-up anyways. Rally Luck would only be used in more extreme cases like Berserkers (who have inherent crit bonuses, which would make nulling out everything tricky to begin with).
Remember, 14 luck (7 dodge) + guard stance (+5 dodge) + goddess icon or luck tonic (+2 dodge) nulls out the crits of other enemy units like the high-skill Heroes (14). No Yato required.
Berserkers and other heavy crit bonus classes seem to be meant to be difficult to avoid facing a crit chance for most characters. I mean, 21 crit would need 42 luck to null out; you simply won't get that high (seeing that the highest luck classes have 35). You simply aren't nulling that out without assistance.
Bronze weapons also exist if you're scared of crits as a substitute for Yato's +10 crit evade, although due to their low attack power I don't think they're a great option.
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Instant promote someone and pair-up. It works at least until Takumi promotes himself. Promoted units count as higher levels than un-promoted.
It breaks down eventually, but it should work in the early game.
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I mean, aesthetically I like the look of Hinoka!Matoi and I like that she has higher growths and Lancefaire [even though she probably is sticking as a Pegasus in the main game]…. I just wanted to try reevaluating my assumptions and see "who actually would deal the better damage - the unit with poor growths + victory or the units with better growths without it.
Of course, offenses aren't everything, and Setsuna Matoi loses in a lot of other categories too, so having better HP, SKL, LCK, and DEF may be notable, plus Hinoka!Matoi and others like Oboro!Matoi, etc., have better STR and MAG for enemy phase or for play beyond 20/15, where at some point the weaker growths will eventually overwhelm Prescient Victory entirely [such as when grinding for a PvP or hypothetical high-end DLC team].
Shephen had actually sparked the idea a while back when we were talking about Matoi variants on a reddit thread… he had good things to say about a Prescient Victory build, so I decided to do the math here.
EDIT: Actually, if I recall correctly form what I've been told, a Setsuna!Matoi could also pick up Prescient Victory on her own in two levels if she promotes to GKW first, so Setsuna wouldn't have to pass it down for Matoi to realistically get it, although having it from the start would be highly preferable.
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Okay, makes sense. Ch.8.
If you're leaving the prologue at 9/10, what is a reasonable Ch. 8 level?
Changing the subject, thinking back to my shockstick calculations at this post: http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=58830&p=4113843….Setsuna might be a good mother for this, despite the poor magic growth, thanks to Prescient Victory
Back then, I assumed a Pegasus with a 15% growth rate (Hinoka or Hinoka!Matoi [if my guess of optional parent + child default averaging is correct) have this, for example].
But it occurs to me that we could get a better player phase attacker in another way: a Pegasus with Prescient Victory, such as Setsuna!Matoi
Now, I'm going to assume that Setsuna's 0% magic growth and Matoi's 15% magic growth average to 7.5% magic growth. If its actually like Awakening after all (despite my earlier experimentation), then it would instead be 11.666% thanks to Tsubaki. But I'll use the 7.5% figure.
So this is half the personal growth rate from before…. but how significant is this when we're getting +4 damage in player phase from Prescient Victory (which Setsuna can directly inherit onto Matoi as long as Setsuna hits level 10).
Assuming endgame levels of 20.15, losing 7.5% magic growth (15% --> 7.5%) costs a child 1.8 magic in levels on average. But Prescient Victory gives us +4 damage on the player phase [so admittedly, we're behind on the enemy phase, but the Pegasus gets better player phase damage]. For player phase, we're still ahead by 2.2 damage in our attacking by 20/15; the lower magic growth isn't enough to outweigh that damage bonus [player-phase only].
Additionally, the fact that Setsuna passes poor STR might actually turn to our advantage when using Shockstick with Prodigy… some of the borderline cases I discussed last time, like the Heroes who we probably wouldn't get prodigy against due to the likelihood of having equal strength as them, would be much more likely to be in our favor this time around. So that would actually let us get 4 extra magical damage against those enemies.
Also, what about physical attacks, just out of interest? The assumption of Hinoka!Matoi would give us 40% STR growth. Setsuna!Matoi, if my assumptions are correct, would have 27.5% STR growth. So a 12.5% difference. Over 24 levels (recruit at 10/0, promote at 20/0 ->20/1, get to 20/15), this accumulates to a loss of 3 STR, or 3 less damage… BUT we get +4 damage in the player phase, so that's a net gain of +1 player phase damage. So we're still weaker in the enemy phase, obviously, but we get more absolute killing power in the player phase, even with physical attacks.
Of course, earlier on, before the weaker growths have a time to kick in, the +4 damage will be even more dominant over the lower growths…
Disclaimer: The effects of parent stats on bases has not been accounted for, because I don't know how that works this time. This might tilt things more favorably towards Hinoka as a mom in some cases for this role.
Prescient Victory might really be a great skill for such a build. Sure, you miss out on Lancefaire, but that's so late in the game (level 15) that it won't really become relevant, whereas Prescient Victory would be highly relevant for the whole game.
ADDENDUM: About -LCK….
Guard stance does give you +5 dodge, which is the same as 10 extra luck. Also, Ch. 4 has a Goddess Icon, worth +4 luck; you could always just slap that onto the Avatar. There's another Goddess Icon later on too.
My Dark Knight example gets up to an average 14 luck on its own (assuming Nohr Prince route). That's 7 dodge. Guard Stance gets us to 12 dodge. This is without the Goddess Icon. With 1 Icon, you get up to 18 luck + guard stance, which is 14 dodge, on average. With 2 Goddess Icons, you get up to 22 luck + guard stance, which is 16 dodge. This also ignores Luck Tonics on top of this, which could get you to 26 Luck + Guard Stance, which is 18 dodge.
Furthermore, the CH. 27 Yato gives +10 Dodge. Heroes in Ch. 27 have 14 critical…. My average +MAG/-LCK Dark Knight example with 1 Goodess Icon (the Ch.4 one) and Guard stance hits 14 dodge. No crit. If I got RNG screwed, I just slap on a tonic. This also ignores the fact that I could be using Yato, for +10 dodge. 14 luck (no icon, no tonic) + 10 dodge = 7 dodge + 10 dodge = 17 dodge, so I'd still be fine.
The boss of that Chapter has 22 critical. With Guard Stance (5), Yato (10), and 14 luck (7), I get 22 dodge… no Icons required.
Some of the Berserkers have 21 critical, so less than the boss itself… Yato will protect you in that chapter. Without Yato could be somewhat more problematic, but 2 Goddess Icons and a Rally Luck + Guard Stance + Luck Tonic also solves that if needed.
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Discussion of Dark Knights follows (in spoiler box)
As a disclaimer, I don't have the game, so I don't have any practical experience with the actual execution of the Dark Knight build. Maybe its good, maybe its worse than I thought.
Assuming +MAG/-LCK [you could take -DEF for even more offense, but given survivability thresholds I don't think its necessarily worth it]
If Ownagepuffs or anyone else knows, what's a reasonable level for the Avatar to be at by the time he gets the first seal (if he chooses to use it)? In other words, what's the earliest time that you can switch into your secondary? This determines how many levels you can get in the secondary (and build tome rank) if you want to go to a tome class early.
In any event, I might guess it would be a good idea to wait until level 10 anyways so that you at least grab Dragon's Fang.
Here are 20/15 stat average predictions [chosen because it seems like a reasonable endgame level] if you go one of two routes:
1. Nohr Prince --> Dark Mage at 10 (tome rank) -> Promote to Dark Knight
2. Nohr Prince --> Promote --> Seal over to Dark Knight 1
Basically, these boil down to:
1. 9 levels as Nohr Prince, 10 levels as Dark Mage, 14 levels as Dark Knight
2. 19 levels as Nohr Prince, 14 levels as Dark Knight
Either way, +MAG/-LCK base stats:
19 HP, 7 Str, 7 Mag, 7 Skl, 6 Spd, 3 Lck, 6 Def, 2 Res, 5 Move
And these are the outcomes for 20.15, both on its own and with the upgraded form of the Yato in your inventory, unequipped [if equipped, add +1 SPD, -1 Def, -1 Res].
Results, option #1 (spend time as Dark Mage to build tome rank, lose sword access for 10 levels):
Level 20/15: 39.3 HP, 26.35 Str, 29.15 Mag, 23.8 Skl, 25.1 Spd, 13.85 Lck, 24.05 Def, 18.05 Res
w/Birthright Yato: 39.3 HP, 30.35 Str, 29.15 Mag, 23.8 Skl, 29.1 Spd, 13.85 Lck, 24.05 Def, 18.05 Res
w/Conquest Yato: 39.3 HP, 26.35 Str, 29.15 Mag, 23.8 Skl, 25.1 Spd, 13.85 Lck, 28.05 Def, 22.05 Res
w/Revelation Yato: 39.3 HP, 30.35 Str, 29.15 Mag, 23.8 Skl, 29.1 Spd, 13.85 Lck, 28.05 Def, 22.05 Res
Results, option #2 (never temporariliy lose ability to use swords):
Level 20/15: 40.8 HP, 26.85 Str, 28.15 Mag, 24.8 Skl, 25.1 Spd, 14.85 Lck, 24.55 Def, 17.55 Res
w/Birthright Yato: 40.8 HP, 30.85 Str, 28.15 Mag, 24.8 Skl, 29.1 Spd, 14.85 Lck, 24.55 Def, 17.55 Res
w/Conquest Yato: 40.8 HP, 26.85 Str, 28.15 Mag, 24.8 Skl, 25.1 Spd, 14.85 Lck, 28.55 Def, 21.55 Res
w/Revelation Yato: 40.8 HP, 30.85 Str, 28.15 Mag, 24.8 Skl, 29.1 Spd, 14.85 Lck, 28.55 Def, 21.55 Res
Regarding speed thresholds: the Hoshido final boss has 32 SPD and the Revelation Final Boss has 31 SPD. To double them, we need 37 SPD or 36 SPD respectively. (The Hoshido boss has Draconic Curse, so if we attack after getting sung for we'll get SPD -4, but singing gives +3, so we'd need to hit 38 SPD if we wanted to double after being cursed and getting sung for if we're engaging in a second round of battle).
Because the final Yato upgrade lets you do 75% damage vs. Dragonskin (and the weapon has 16 Might), we are presumably using it again the final bosses. So we get its extra +1…. in Birthright/Revelation, this would put our average speed value at 30, rounded down (29 [rounded down] +1).
A speed tonic (+2) and a +4 Spd pair-up (such as a Pegasus with +1 SPD Personal) gets us doubling the Revelation boss. Changing that to a +5 SPD pair-up would make us double the Birthright boss pre-curse, while +4 SPD and a Speedwing or +6 SPD pair-up gets us doubling post-curse. These figures ignore Rally Speed, which could replace +4 speed of these sources: example, SPD tonic (+2 ) and Rally Speed to double the Revelation boss, no +SPD pair-up required.
Disclaimer: These are based on average values. This means at times you will do better than them, while at times you will do worse.
If for some reason you reached the final battles and you were utterly desperate for an extra point of speed or slightly more physical attack, you could make an emergency class change to White Blood. If you did this, you'd get +0 HP, +2 Str, -2 Mag, -1 Skl, +1 Spd, +1 Lck, -1 Def, -3 Res.
Dark Knight actually has a better STR growth rate than White Blood does, but a worse base in it (+5% growth, -2 to base). But White Blood is better for speed (+5% growth, +1 base). Dark Knight is also actually more skillful by base (+1 base) but simultaneously has a worse growth (-5%). Actually, OVERALL, Dark Knight has +3 points in non-move bases (and +2 in movement), but it has -5% total growths and some things (like SPD) aren't as favorable, plus you get different weapons (B Swords/A tomes vs. A swords/A stones/B staves).
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To my knowledge, the only magical tome classes that let you use Yato are Dark Blood (Conquest/Revelation only), Dark Knight, and Grandmaster (both DLC & male only).
Otherwise, you either have to choose Yato or tomes.
Of course, if you relax the requirement of tomes, you can get away with a lot more if you're using Levin Swords, Shock Sticks, etc. Levin Swords are Conquest/Revelation; Shock Sticks are Birthright/Revelation. etc.
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Already unavailable on Amazon? I missed it while at dinner?
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I'd try heading to the store to pre-order at 10 am (assuming they're doing in-store pre-orders as well), but I'm going to be in a pre-arranged meeting with my graduate supervisor.
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You raise a very good point….
You are absolutely correct that Rally Speed exists. Of course, a Pegasus pair-up and a different Pegasus doing Rally Speed exists, so these are not necessarily mutually exclusive.
You are also totally correct about Hinoka/Sakura and their aura effects. As it happens, the Pegasus I specifically had in mind was Matoi, so Hinoka and Sakura would be assumed to be free in my example. But if I was planning on Hinoka, etc., then I'd have to be concerned about losing their aura.
You raise a good point about the movement. That would get you even further; you're absolutely right.
You could even move your unit, pair-up with a target unit, move that unit, switch, and then drop off the original unit.
8 + 9 +1 = 18 spaces, if I count correctly.
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Compacted rambling section into spoiler tags below
I was thinking probably closer to the Nohr Prince --> Promote --> Dark Knight route over the Nohr Prince --> Dark Mage --> Dark Knight route.
I was imagining taking +MAG/-LCK, despite the loss to both offensive stats; I could also take -DEF, but was concerned that in Fates that might be a bit too costly ["low HP Emblem" and all and then making myself even more fragile]. And speaking to other players, they had also encouraged +MAG/-LCK.
I understand that I'd have personal growths of 40% STR and 45% MAG this way (+MAG/-LCK), which works out to 55% growths in both stats as a Nohr Prince. If I went +MAG/-DEF, I'd have 60% growths in each stat [on average, +0.95 more STR/LCK by 20/0, increasing to +1.9 by 20/20, not that I'd reach that high, but at the cost of 2.9 DEF by 20/0 and 4.8 DEF by 20/20; all figures are averages]. I understand that there's a chapter 4 Goddess Icon that could offset the early -LCK penalty.
Anyways, 7 base STR/MAG (thanks to asset +3 bonus) and 55% growths gets me to 17.45 STR/MAG on average at 20/0. Promotion and subsequent Dark Knight class change would give me +1STR and +3 MAG relative to Nohr Prince, bringing me to 18.45 STR and 20.45 MAG, on average.
At that point, I'd have a 60% STR growth and a 55% MAG growth.
Predicted 20/15 STR would be 26.85; Predicted 20/15 MAG would be 28.15 MAG. (If I took -DEF, these values would be +1.65 higher instead).
I suppose I could use an Arms Scroll on the Avatar, although perhaps that's wasteful.
EDIT: Actually, the prior poster (who beat me to posting) raises a good point… although Dark Mage's overall stat growths are lower too by a notable margin: 55% Dark Mage growths vs. 85% Nohr Prince growths; on average, 0.3 stat points difference per level stayed in the class.
2nd Addendum: Hm… considering a hypothetical 1/0 -> 10/0 Nohr Prince (not sure which level I should assume for the first 2nd seal), 10/0 --> 20/0 Dark Mage, promote to Dark Knight, 20/0 --> 20/15 Dark Knight, this is the average stats that a +MAG/-LCK Avatar would end up with:
39.3 HP, 26.35 STR, 29.15 MAG, 23.8 SKL, 25.1 SPD, 13.85 LCK, 24.05 DEF, 18.05 RES
Leveling this way, as pointed out, would let me get the Avatar a better tome rank… as for sword rank, he has Yato (which is probably most of what he needs, although he probably wants to get B (the highest Dark Knight can go) for using it later on.
Luck is pretty terrible, but there are at least two Goddess Icons from the chapters that I know of, including a CH 4 one… if I balanced out the flaw with Icons, I'd get 21.85 LCK
If I did -DEF instead for some reason (becoming much more of a "squishy wizard"), the -5% STR, -5% MAG, -20% LCK, -2 starting luck from the flaw would be replaced with -5% LCK, -10% DEF, -5% RES, -1 starting DEF. Over 33 levels (to 20/15), these would change the stat averages to:
39.3 HP, 28 STR, 30.8 MAG, 23.8 SKL, 25.1 SPD, 20.8 LCK, 19.75 DEF, 16.4 RES
In both cases, Yato's possession bonus would offer +4 STR and +4 SPD, and when equipped +1 SPD and -1DEF/RES.
The Hoshido boss (according to my sources) seems to have 61 ATK in Hard and 66 ATK in Lunatic.
39+18 (do to Yato) = 57, so the averages wouldn't predict survival on Hard with -DEF against the boss, except with an HP tonic (1 HP survival), and Lunatic would need more.
With -LCK, 39+23 (post Yato) is 62, so they'd survive the 61 ATK from the Hard Final boss with 1 HP (on average), while an HP tonic would be needed (on average) to survive the Lunatic final boss. This is ignoring pair-up bonuses from class bonuses and personal bonuses.
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How would a Dark Knight + Falcon Warrior combination be in pair-up in Hoshido?
Obviously, I'm referring to an Avatar Dark Knight, as Dark Mage doesn't exist in Birthright as a playable class outside of generic captures or some marriage seal class-analouge shenanigans unless you take the class yourself.
Dark Knight's class pair-up bonus is +3 MAG, +3 DEF, and +1 Move.
Falcon Warrior's class pair-up bonus is +3 SPD, +3 RES, and +1 Move.
A lot of the praise I've been hearing for Falcon Warrior is to exploit the Shock Stick, which is magical. Dark Knight gives a +MAG pair-up bonus and its +3 DEF also places extra points to shore up one of Falcon Warrior's stat weaknesses [not that it will fully overcome it, just mitigate it]. Because running a Dark Knight in Birthright that's not a generic implies the Avatar, Mysterious Appeal would also be granting an extra +2 damage given/-2 damage received on top of this. Also, the personal pair-ups of the Avatar are guaranteed at least another +1 DEF/+1 RES and +1 SPD; a +MAG Avatar would be giving +1 extra magic and another +1 extra speed as well, so we could be looking at a pair bonus of +4 MAG, +2 SPD, +4 DEF, +1 RES, and +1 Move. Stacking with Mysterious appeal, this would be +6 shockstick damage given and -6 physical damage taken for the paired unit.
Falcon Warrior's +SPD would help offset one of the notable weaknesses of Dark Knight (SPD), as does the inherent Yato Bonus later on (+2 --> +4). RES is also the weaker defensive stat of both the Dark Knight class and the Avatar's growths. So we're looking at a 5/7 (6/8 when equipped) speed bonus of stacking Yato and a Pegasus, before personal pair-up.
Both units are naturally 8 move and they give +1 move in pair-up, so they'd end up as mutually 9 move when paired with each other.
A key drawback that I could see is that the Avatar would end up with dual weakness (horse and dragon).
How would this combo work?
This is a thinly veiled question about how the Avatar and some version of Matoi would work in a pair-up
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Couldn't another strategy be stacking a bunch of STR and SPD, as well as building a slight amount of shield gauge before engaging the final boss directly?
(I haven't played the game, so maybe I'm wrong)….
You'd need 37 SPD to double (or 32 + Swallow Strike) and you'd need 38 SPD to double after getting Draconic Cursed but brought back up a bit with Special Song.
If you go with +SPD (to be particularly favorable to this), you already have an average of 30.1 SPD at 20/15. Yato would give you +5 SPD when equipped, right? That gets you to 35 SPD. A tonic gets you to 37 SPD. Or Rally Speed would have already gotten you to 39. Of course, averages won't always happen, but I haven't even considered Speedwings or Personal Pair-ups yet.
If you went +SPD/-LCK, you'd be at 28.15 STR on average by 20/15. Shura pair-up (+4; generic, not even considering support ranks), Yato (16 Might, +4 STR), A-rank swords (+3 ATK), Battle Command [from your Servant; +2], Encouragement [+2], and a STR tonic [+2] gets you up to 61 ATK.
This is already enough to get the 33 DEF final boss down to 2 HP (78 damage) after accounting for Draconic curse: (61-33)*0.75 = 21; (57 -33)*0.75 =18; 21 x 2 + 18 x 2 = 78.
A simple Energy Drop would place you in the territory of beating the boss on your own [well, as a pair and with Azura dancing for you]. You'd want at least one shield icon to charge up the dual guard gauge beforehand, to block one of the bosses' attacks, that said.
Again, this assumes averages, so results might not meet the threshold in practice. Although it also assumes 20/15, so if you're higher, you have more levels or leeway with the RNG. Also, things would become much easier if Izana' staffing worked, and also this is ignoring that you also have other characters who could attack the boss.
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Could you exploit the child paralogues (such as withholding the paralogue of a child you aren't planning to use on your team until later in the game so that you face higher level enemies who will give high level promoted EXP) as a way of providing an extra resource for leveling your team?
Of course, you'd be giving up their EXP in the short term, but you could get a bunch of high level enemies later on [or perhaps more consistent supplies of promoted enemies after Child Seals start appearing], and then you'd get a bunch of EXP in those stages?
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Well, my calculations are that Lancefaire would tend to give you +5.20 physical damage per hit (5% extra for 4 levels plus 5 from the skill) and +4.60 magical damage per hit (-10% magic per level for 4 levels, plus 5 from the skill).
However, you'd also lose 4 point of magic (and thus 4 damage) for the 4 levels needed to pick up the skill if in Holy Lancer. You'd also consume a seal to get to the class and then another seal to get back to your ending class.
Some of the magical loss can be mitigated by taking some levels (for the first two skills) as a Basara again, but its not a huge deal. As a Basara you'd also GAIN 1 base point of magic during this time. You'd still have to spend at least 2 levels in Holy Lancer (Speed Seal, then Lancefaire).
I haven't played yet, so I cannot really comment on if using the seals like that would be a good use of resources.
Your magical abilities would drop off for 2-4 levels, although your physical abilities would be improved during that time in compensation. The end result would make you better both magically and physically overall, due to boosting both shock stick and regular lances.
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If you're using her for Shockstick, as Shephen suggests, or at least partially using her for that, I suppose that a magic user could also be of use in a pair-up so that they could bequeath a +MAG bonus.
EDIT:
By the way, are these estimates of Shock Stick performance reasonable? (see spoiler tagged section)
I've been trying to run some of the numbers…. these figures are for Matoi (personal bias), but with a 15% magic growth Hinoka should tend to be similar [Hinoka has a higher base, Matoi gets a +4 damage boost if Prodigy triggers]
So by 20/15 we'd be looking at something like 12 magic ON AVERAGE on Matoi [slighly higher on Hinoka] before Spiriti Dusts.
Say we use 2 Spirit Dust…. 16 magic.
Forged Shock Stick…. that would be 11+2=13 Might, right? SO that would be 16 magic + 13 Might --> 29 ATK
Let's consider a +4 magic pair up [it could be more or less; an Exorcist without supports hits it immediately; an S-rank +MAG Dark Knight also hits that, etc. it doesn't really matter where it comes from; actual pair-up values could be more or less]. ---> 33 ATK
If we assumed that Avatar was giving the pair-up, we could further boost it by +2 by Mysterious Appeal. ---> 35 ATK
A-rank lances should be 2 more attack… 37 ATK….
A Prodigy trigger would give us 4 more damage, as if it was 41 ATK….
A magic tonic could put us up to 43 ATK….
You could take Lance Fighter levels to get +5 damage per attack, but that also costs 4 levels of 10% growth, so we're looking at an average of 11.6 magic pre-Dusts plus 5 damage…. so basically (due to no fractional values) 11 magic +5 damage, for a net gain of 4 damage.
You could also easily get Open Assault (situationally) if she managed to buddy, but I don't think assuming a 2nd gen to get both a husband and a buddy is a prudent idea.
I'll ignore both Lancefaire and Open Assault in the below analysis.
Judging from this Hoshido/Hard video, these are some selected Ch. 27 enemy stats:
20/16 Hero: 51 HP, 16 RES, 27 SPD (we expect to double thanks to SPD stat and Swallow Strike)
IF Prodigy can trigger
---> If Hero uses sword, weapon triangle advantage; 44 ATK (+1 bonus) - 16 RES = 28 damage per hit ---> 56 damage over two hits ---> kills Hero.. [actually, we didn't need the tonic…. subtracting 2 x 2 damage still gets us to 52].
--> If Hero uses axe, WT Disadvantage; lose 2 WTB attack and 1 penalty, so -3 ATK… 40 ATK -16 = 24 damage per hit ---> 48 damage; Hero is at 3 HP [Hinoka's Aura or Battle command could fix this, however]
EXCEPT that the Heroes have 25 STR, which my predicted averages suggest Matoi has as well, so her Prodigy bonus would be canceled…. but we could replace this Rally Magic…. although if she were slightly STR-screwed she'd be fine.
Berserkers: 57 HP, 27 Spd (doubled), 8 RES…. we face WT disadvantage here; Prodigy will always work against these as a Falcon Knight [they have more than its cap already]; 40 ATK - 8 RES = 32 damage ---> 32 x 2 = 64 kill
Great Knights: 50 HP, 16 RES, 30 STR (Prodigy will trigger), swords or lances….. we should get a kill…
Bow Knights: Prodigy probably won't trigger against them, and Bows beat Lances… we're looking at 36 ATK, vs. 23 RES ---> 13 x 2 = 26 damage, vs. 44 HP; no kill here… we'd need 9 more damage [Rally Magic, Lancefaire, Encouragement] to get a kill….
Wyvens: 46 HP, axes, 28 STR (prodigy likely), 11 RES;;; 43 -11 = 32 --> 64 damage, easy kill
Strategist: 39/39 HP, tomes (lances beat these, so +1 ATK in triangle), 24 RES, 28 Magic [Prodigy triggers] ---> 44 ATK - 24 RES = 20 damage per hit ---> get a kill. (20 x 2 = 40 > 39).
Dark Knights: 47 HP, 25 STR [Prodigy triggering is borderline, might not happen], 19 RES…. have swords and tomes (+1 damage due to triangel) 44 -4 (no prodigy) - 19 = 21 damage per hit --> 42 damage dealt… not a kill on one's own… but Rally Magic would push us up to 50 and get the kill.
Well, I've rambled there quite a while… the point is, Shockstick Falcon Knight, even with a character with a 15% magic growth, could actually do quite a lot of damage and get a bunch of kills thanks to lots of stacking bonuses and Spirit Dusts [2 Dusts, Shockstick Forge, pair-up, Mysterious Appeal, A-rank lances, Prodigy, Tonic, etc.]
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If I'm explicitly planning to utilize Matoi in my playthrough, would it be better to save the Spirit Dusts for her and make her the Shocksticker over Hinoka?
She has a slightly worse base, given that she starts with 3 magic at level 10 while Hinoka has 4 magic at level 9, but her Prodigy skill would (I would think) tend to grant her +4 extra damage, which would tend to outweigh the difference in bases.
The reason this is a practicality question is of course Matoi arrives later than Hinoka does, so Hinoka could potentially be Spirit Dust + Shocksticking earlier than Matoi, but Matoi could be better at it (I think) later on.
Basically, it is more practical to save them a bit longer for the more powerful option, or should I make use of their power immediately on a slightly less damaging but more immediate option?
I'm likely to make Hinoka or Oboro Matoi's mother, so either way they'd leave her with very similar magic growths and identical magic mods [both to each other and to Hinoka herself]; Hinoka has a 15% personal growth, Matoi has a default 15% personal growth, and Oboro has a 20% personal growth. So there wouldn't be a huge difference.
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Also Basara for a level or two might actually help out her Magic a little bit.
Not really if you aren't planning to stay as one. Basara and Falcon Warrior have identical (10%) class magic growths. In fairness, Basara does have 1 point higher in base (5 magic vs. 4 magic), but that won't apply once you transfer out of the class.
Time spent in Basara would be for the skills (like Breaking Sky), not for increased magic growth [as it isn't increased; its exactly the same].
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And why does a horse give a crap about what a human wears along with which gender the human is?
CLEARLY, they'll come out with the reveal that "Abel" the horse is actually a man who has been bewitched by an evil sorcerer and transformed into a horse, thus explaining why he cares about these things….
Okay, I'm only joking here.
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Wouldn't that mean that using fliers (Hinoka, Tsubaki, Yuugiiri, Crimson, Shigure [if unlocked], Matoi [if unlocked], etc.) would become a valuable strategy for that map? Of course, it would depend on whom you trained, but there are a good number of options out there.
Unit Practicality Thread
in Fire Emblem Fates
Posted
Approaching from another perspective, I'll list off some of the kids who bring you certain limited supply or otherwise notable items upon recruitment… in a few cases, maybe it will be an extra consideration of "oh, if I go for this child, I get this cool weapon thrown in with them".
Deere - Physic
Matoi - Swordslayer Naginata
Seigbert - Javelin
Ignis - Javelin
Velour - Guard Beastone
Lutz - Hand Axe
Ophelia - at end of level, Missletainn [personal tome]
The Javelins and Hand Axes are technically limited supply items, but you get 10 of them from the Armory, plus anything your characters are recruited with, so they aren't that limited…. limiting the prior list to more limited items
Deere - Physic [5 in the store; value: 3000 G]
Matoi - Swordslayer Nagainata [2 in store; value: 3400 G]
Velour - Guard Beaststone [not purchasable]
Ophelia - Missletainn [not purchasable]
So, these characters might offer a slight extra incentive thanks to their items.
Please correct me if I made mistakes.