NekoKnight

-It's still a bad system if you get more resources than you're able to spend. I'll keep doing the Training Tower for a long time because that's how I get EXP and SP, but those badges? I'll never be able to use the vast majority I collect. It's a common resource that can't be used without a rare resource. There is an imbalance. -I'm not ignoring Arena. I'm excluding it from the conversation because it's a good source of Feathers (although not enough to offset the badge problem). What I'm criticizing are the free 15 feathers (absolutely useless) and the Hero Merit system (way too slow). The "more casual player" isn't going to get nearly enough feathers to do much in the game. I wish I had those problems. Send a Ninian my way, man!

Is anyone else of the opinion that resources in this game are really badly utilized? Crystals: A frequent award of the Training Tower used to give your characters EXP. They come in two varieties and both aren’t worth using. For starters, by using these EXP boosters, you’re actually denying yourself the chance to farm SP, which is easier to do for lower leveled characters. The only thing you should use crystals on is getting Skill fodder characters to level 20, and even then, it’s hardly worth it because 1. Your crystals don’t give you that much exp and 2. It’s really easy to level from 1-20 in the training tower. I guess… they would be helpful on those few 1-2 star characters you get? Badges: The other reward you get from the training tower. The game showers you with these things, which you might perceive as generosity until you realize….you can’t actually use them! I have hundreds of the things and they linger in my inventory because I don’t have…. Feathers: This is the resource everyone wants (after orbs) but we get so little of. It takes 2000 feathers to get a 3* to 4* star (a reasonable investment) but a whopping 20,000 feathers to get your 4* to a competitively viable 5*. The game gives you a paltry 15 feathers a day for logging in (You only need 1,333 days to save for that 5*!) and your next best option (outside of Arena and Gauntlets) is…Hero Merit. I know people were excited for this update but it’s really not that useful. To farm the most Hero Merit, you would need to do the 10th stratum of the training tower to get 5 (times the number of characters) feathers. Let’s say you go through your 99 stamina stock twice a day. You can complete the 10th stratum 22 times to get 110 Hero Merit per character. Since the game doesn’t let you cash in on those feathers until you hit intervals of 500, it would take you 5 days of intensive grinding at the highest difficulty setting to get 2000 feathers! This is assuming of course that all your characters survive, and the 10th stratum is no cake walk. Compare this to the daily Arena quests that would give you 1000 feathers over 5 days for something as easy as 4 Arena victories per day. “B-but the feathers are free!” you say? They’re free in the sense that pulling weeds at 50c per hour gives you “free” money. In summary, crystals should almost never be used, and you can’t use your badges because you don’t have feathers. Sorry to complain so much but this system is broken. How would you “fix” this? I would make crystals give you SP instead of EXP (not a 1 to 1 exchange rate, but something balanced) and give you a lot more Hero Merit, especially for lower stratums. There should also be a way to sell excess materials for feathers.

1 Vote for Path of Radiance. Show's over folks. Go home. I think I speak for everyone.

Maybe do a "Super Sudden Death" round and give people 1 more day to cast their vote for either PoR or Genealogy. Or just flip a coin. Or let NekoKnight decide the value of all games.

I'd prefer something simpler like a unit will suffer Avoid and Critical Evade penalties for each enemy adjacent to them (maybe -5?). This could help dealing with super high avoid enemies. There could also be a skill that makes a character immune to flanking.

There is a reason why you don't tell the stories of the average person who would fail utterly in dire situations. We follow the man who defeats 100 men, not the guy who shat himself and then fled the field when the battle grew intense. This isn't to say all protagonists should be flawless supermen but if the characters aren't competant enough, it's not a story worth telling. Even looking at this through a "real people with realistic flaws" lens, those flaws need to actually be addressed in the plot. No where in Conquest do the siblings show repentance or self-introspection for their failures. There is no scene at the end of the game where Xander says "Because of my cowardice and weakness I allowed evil to triumph." Quite the opposite, Xander says "Yeah, I was always against the war. Peace, now THAT'S what I'm all about!" all while "Sunshine, Lolipops and Rainbows" plays in the background. If the game wanted us to treat their flaws (particularly in the case of child abuse) seriously, it would have talked about them in some way. Now THAT would be a great personal flaw to explore. Everyone wants to be "right" in the way they do things, and characters who redefine what "rightness" means to them. Leo already shows shades of this with him considering his secret subversion of Garon adequate rightness (but he still supports in him in the conquest) but no one calls him out for his other conflicts of morals.

I know how this goes. Rather thab be slain, he jumps into the Infinite Chasm and comes back as a rage monster. Classic archer stuff.

I have less of a problem with their behavior when it comes to self-preservation (although even then, they are pretty heartless to the plight of the Hoshidans). Fear is a very understandable reaction to Garon. If the central conflict were based on fear, however, we wouldn't need Valla, the curse, Gooron or even the conquest. I would have appreciated a scene earlier on where Corrin confronts them about stopping Garon and them reacting with genuine terror at even the notion. Although they don't support his actions, we never see any indication that they want Garon removed.

Buckle in, this is going to be a long one. tldr at the bottom Often discussed on Serenes is the plot of Fates, in particular the *ahem* problematic Conquest route. Even though you are allegedly the goods guys, you and your siblings do a lot of horrible things in the name of achieving peace. The central problem of this route is Garon. Even though he is transparently evil, our "heroes" continue to support him. The question is, why? One defense I've heard in favor of Nohrrin and his siblings is they were abused and couldn't see Garon objectively. I wanted to see if these theories carried any weight so I scoured the script and this is what I found. Let's get something out on the table. Yes, Garon is an abuser. He is quick to insult his children (mostly Nohrrin) when they don't behave as he would like and he makes it no secret that he'd have them executed if they disobeyed him. In F!Corrin's Gunter support, it even says that he would have had the young Corrin whipped to discipline her for shyness! Child abuse is a complicated topic and it's not uncommon for a victim to either justify the abuse as being deserved, be convinced that the abuser is normally kind or not want any attention brought to the abuser for fear that it will just make the abuse worse. So, does this behavior fit the Nohrian siblings? For the most part no. Not consistently at least. One common element we see expressed by all siblings is that Garon will have them executed for disobeying him. Leo speaks on Corrin's behalf twice (P2 and C14) in order to divert Garon's rage and spare Corrin a grisly fate. Camilla also confirms (R13 and C14) that disobedience or failure will be met with death. As we can see, the Norhian children have plenty of cause to fear Garon and act in the interest of self preservation. The problem is, it's not fear that Corrin must help his siblings overcome, it's filial piety. I'll say this again, the game wants us to believe that the Nohr sibs are unfailingly loyal because they love him more than they hate his brutality. When Azura tells Corrin about Garon's true form in C15, the dilemma is not presented as "I need to get my siblings to summon their courage to stand up to Garon's evil". He thinks they wouldn't even believe him that Garon is evil without direct evidence. So, if it's not fear that Garon's abuse created, it must be twisted adoration, right? What do the Nohrian siblings have to say about dear old dad? Elise: Elise has never experienced Garon when he wasn't cruel and threatening but she seems to have a overall positive interpretation of Garon. Elise is, to put it lightly, an extremely naive child (sorry localization team). This is the same girl who thought "suppressing the ice tribe" meant sitting down and having dinner with them. She says that Garon is merely "rough around the edges", despite being present to 3 massacres he ordered. Her viewpoint isn't the best piece of evidence that Garon is worthy of adoration. Leo: In Leo's support with Elise he says that he used to be fond of Garon but that he changed after the death of Queen Arete. Leo was very young when this happened however so most of the positive things he has to say about Garon of the past is second hand information. The Garon he does know is quick to order the executions of his siblings and countless other atrocities. In C14, Leo says to Corrin that the siblings subvert Garon behind his back so that they may "survive with their souls intact". Not exactly a positive commentary on Garon's behavior, is it? In Elise's support he tells her that he never loved his own mother, so it's hard to imagine Garon would leave a more favorable impression. Camilla: Camilla doesn't have a lot to say on Garon but none of it is positive. She says on more than one occasion that Garon wouldn't hesitate to have them killed. In her support with Niles she says that Garon "loved to pit our mothers against each other". This conflict, which the fandom has dubbed "the concubine wars" seems to have been a traumatic event in Camilla's life that she blames in part on Garon. So we have Leo and Camilla who are frank about Garon's dickery and Elise who is too much of an idiot-child to see things as they are. Which leaves just Xander. Xander: Xander is the oldest Nohr sib so he has the most memories of Garon before he went bonkers. Garon even praises Xander on occasion when he is successful with a mission. It makes sense that he'd have the greatest cognitive dissonance and think that Garon might change if everyone cooperates with him. Unfortunately this characterization as him being blissfully unaware of Garon's true nature isn't consistent. In C6, Ryoma informs Xander that Garon killed Mikoto and countless others, which Corrin confirms. In C7, Xander overhears Garon cackling insanely that he wants Corrin to suffer and die. In his support with Corrin he expresses that in the past he would frequently argue with his father because he thought he only acted in his self interest. Finally in C27, Xander admits that the whole war was pointless and that he knew his father had changed. In doesn't add up that these characters who are able to acknowledge that Garon is a cruel person are later defending him because of abuse. When Corrin informs his Nohrian siblings that Garon is an evil goo monster, all of them react with shock and horror. Gooron attacks them and they are unable to fight back. But it's not because they are afraid, it's because they genuinely care about him. The same man who, before being revealed as goo, would have casually ordered them killed at the smallest slight! Some would say this is typical of abusive relationships but there is no actual evidence this. On the contrary, the script suggests that they DO recognize that Garon is bad news. Look, I know killing one's parent would never be easy (unless you're Michalis) but the writing does not support the dedication the children have for Garon. Their perception of Garon isn't warped by emotional abuse, it's warped by inept writers who couldn't make a conquest plot work unless the Nohrian siblings were weak-willed and uncooperative. You know what Zephiel did after his father made two attempts on his life? He fucking put a sword through him! Nohr sibs, I am disappoint. TLDR; While there are certain traits reminiscent of child abuse cases, there is no conclusive evidence that their loyalty to Garon is based on this. What are your thoughts on the matter? Do you think there is evidence that child abuse made the Nohr sibs act the way they do?

Best 3 points: Path of Radiance 2 points: Birthright 1 point: Radiant Dawn Worst 3 points: Shadow Dragon 2 points: Awakening 1 Point: Conquest I'll be interested in hearing about why people score games the way they do. For example, I value story a lot so it is a significant priority (that's why Conquest scores lower than Birthright in my book).

I want characters to have somewhat functional clothing with a bit of fantasy flair. (Fates Mercenaries or Awakening's Tactician, for example) There should be no "fanservice" class like Awakening/Fates Dark Mages or Fighters, and there should definitely not be any unreasonable fanservice differences between genders. A girl wearing a modest skirt to contrast her male counterpart is fine. What's not cool is adding ass-windows to Armor Knights. I think PoR/RD and SoV hit this balance between functionality and fantasy well. Heard you talking shit about my zettai ryouiki like I wouldn't find out. (jk, can't do strikethrough on my phone)

This. You can make a lance by sharpening a stick but swords require a lot of metal, not to mention forging. A number of farming tools can also be wielded as makeshift weapons (or a woodcutter's axe). Another weapon I could see them using is a bow and arrow normally used for.hunting.

My votes remain unchanged.

Pros of Revelation include flexible team building (you get both weapon shops and nearly all characters) and additional supports between Hoshidan and Nohrian characters. The cons are extremely tedius map design and terrible unit balance. Also, a number of maps are reused from Birthright and Conquest. If you are already borderline on buying or not buying Fates, Revelation is a poor investment. It was rated the worst Fire Emblem in a recent poll on the General board. Buying Birthright and Conquest on the other hand is a good investment. $60 for effectively two games, and it lets you use the entire cast (barring one character) between them.

Buy Conquest/Birthright and skip Revelation. Even with its rubbish story, Fates has a lot to offer in gameplay, presentation and music. I can't comment on Echoes' quality but it is a remake and from what I've heard, quite faithful to the original, warts and all. Fates is a modern game that has improved a lot of mechanics that the series has been developing over time.

I found it enjoyable. The plot is the least-bad of the three and you can enjoy some unique maps. Revelation is what you should have skipped.

On phone, sorry for shitty formatting. Best 3 points: Path of Radiance, 2 points: Birthright, 1 point: Sacred Stones Worst 3 points: Shadow Dragon, 2 points: Awakening, 1 Point: Conquest

There is no point in stacking a ton of skills onto a character if you don't plan to use all of them. Most characters are going to excel at a particular niche and there isn't much need to switch up their builds once you find one that works. Sometimes 4* characters can perform adequately compared to 5* characters, especially if you have favorable skills, but it sounds like you went overboard on promoting 3*s to 4*s and narrowed your pool of potential 5*s. Ultimately, your preferred play style is up to you but I would focus more on making more 5* options rather than giving your 4*s ever skill under the sun.

I'm kind of surprised to see Birthright showing up on many people's bottom 3. It has a good UI, game engine and serviceable story. Anyway, my lists are Best 3 points: Blazing Sword - Likeable cast and more personal conflict 2 points: Path of Radiance - Solid world building and character arc 1 point: Fates - Really good music and gameplay when taken as a whole Worst 3 Points: Revelation - Boring story, horrible unit balance and the most tedious map design in the series. 2 Points: Shadow Dragon - Boring story and gameplay, Gaiden requirements, visually unappealing. 1 Point: Awakening - Not a terrible game but a lot of badly implemented gameplay elements and a lackluster story. I haven't played 1-5 or 12, although Gaiden would probably be absolute lowest since the UI was too shit to even play. Conquest has the worst story in the series but also exceptional gameplay, so it hits somewhere in the middle of my favorite/least favorite scale.

It depends on how many choices and the degree that they affect the outcome of things. If you aren't really shaping your own story, then I don't see what there is to gain by making your character a blank slate. Let's take a look at Golden Sun. In that game you aren't given dialogue options but you an emote to the things people say. The problem is, your reactions don't really change anything outside of some slight dialogue variations. A character might say: "Do you think we should help the villagers?" If you say respond positively, the character will say "Of course! That's the heroic thing to do, isn't it?" If you respond negatively, the character will say "What are you saying? We can't just abandon them! We're helping and that's final." What really was accomplished? Is having a story mostly unchanging according to your "choices" really any different than getting a character who makes their own predetermined choices (Robin, Corrin, etc)? Unless they go full Bioware and let us choose every direction of the conversation (which I'm confident will never happen), a mute protagonist or even one with limited dialogue choices will be a step back from the pseudo avatars we've gotten so far.

I'd be pretty bummed. There are a number of strategy rpgs on the market but I don't think they really have the same appeal as Fire Emblem.

I could imagine such a map where you are given a very small group of soldiers (maybe 5?) to infiltrate a fort and kill the soldiers around the gate and nearby walls. The first part of the map could be a stealthy-like level where you need to avoid groups of soldiers carrying torches. After the gates are opened, it would be a straight Route map, albeit fighting within a building. This is another cool idea. I like the idea of choosing to destroy defenses to make the initial siege easier or letting them stay to make your own defense stronger.

Mute avatars might be pure player self inserts but they fail as characters to me. What meaningful interactions can a character have when they don't speak to people? Take for example Link in various Legend of Zelda games. Sometimes characters will speak to him and even react as if he responded but Link has no character outside of what can be inferred through actions and body language. That works for Zelda where most of it is your solo adventures but in a game like Fire Emblem where characters are talking and delivering a narrative, it just won't cut it. Pure avatars are not engaging in the least.

Now that I think about it, C15 is the perfect point to where the story could have turned around. You just had the massacre in the Opera House and Leo suggested a method of subtly subverting Garon. The seeds of rebellion are already sowing and then Azura drops the information that Garon is a slime monster (you shouldn't need this revelation but I'm working with what I got). The sensible thing should be to tell the Nohr sibs immediately and start brewing a resistance in secret, but Azura instead proposes the most insane plan and Corrin doesn't even question it. There were several problems with the pre-C15 chapters but they could have at leasy salvaged the plot at that point.

I could definitely see that as a reasonable human flaw... if it were intentional. Corrin was his sister/brother for a few years and he grew attached. He knows that the Nohrian siblings spent more time with Corrin but he feels that that opportunity belonged to him, so Corrin is still his sibling first. But the truth of Corrin's heritage and Ryoma's hypocrisy isn't a serious talking point, it's just a "technically not incest" disclaimer tied with "GO BUY REVELATION AND HIDDEN TRUTHS NOW" advertisement. Another example would be C18 where Ryoma insists that if the Nohrian siblings were in similar dire straits he'd do the "honorable" thing and help them. But he doesn't do that when Elise requires medicine. This would be a good way to show that Ryoma is kind of bullshitting on the honorable thing, but since the game doesn't make any attempt to acknowledge this, I'm left to think the writers hadn't thought about it themselves.