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It's my proposal. That's why I'm discounting the possibility of me being a spy. I won't include myself in the proposal because that clearly won't go through, but I'm still not going to assume that I'm a spy in my theories.

Looking at my team, I need people who can actually kill things... So Harken! I drafted Guy for my EHM draft and didn't really like him... Screw Wil... Can't use Karel... So it comes down to Jaffar or Renault. Renault will be easy to get to 20 promoted, but even a Jaffar x Nino C support will get me more points, so Jaffar.

Well, I hope you feel better Bizz. Besides, if you sub out, who else will die N1? Agh, I don't know what to say. I think Scorri and Subieko are looking good, on the town side of things. I don't have any real scumreads yet, but I am a bit suspicious of Kay, due to this post: http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=32983&view=findpost&p=2004523 She votes for Subieko at the end of the post, but doesn't mention anything about Subieko at all in the post. And since there was actually a bit of discussion about whether or not Subieko's list post was scummy, it doesn't make sense for a random vote either. You say that you didn't want to say anything about Subieko. If you found her scummy, why not? Also, a bit puzzled about Marth's reaction to Subieko's list post. The content of the post was fairly good, especially as it wasn't really anything that other people had said a lot.

As Eclipse just said, the scumteam cannot consist of both Rein and Eclipse, or they would have won by now, unless the plan is to make us look stupid. But not only would a plan like that be unlikely in a game where the spies cannot communicate, I don't think either of them would do something like that. The assumption of this proposal is that I am a resistance. Therefore: Marth is resistance. One of Elieson and Rein, but not both, is a spy. One of Eclipse and Kay, but not both, is a spy. Both Eclipse and Rein cannot be spies. If I propose a team of Marth, Kay, and Elieson, it can only succeed if the scumteam is Rein/Eclipse + me, which it is not. Therefore, the only teams which do not include me that have a chance of success are Marth+Rein+Kay, Marth+Eclipse+Elieson, and Marth+Eclipse+Rein. Frankly, I'm leaning more towards a spyteam of Eclipse+Elieson than Rein+Kay or Elieson+Kay. Opinions now? Which of the three look best?

I've said, I think Scorri is town. I think you're kinda town. And I don't have any scumreads yet because I don't reallyhave enough to go on.

Well, although I'd like to include myself in the proposal, I won't, because looking at 4.2, that clearly wouldn't have any success. Marth will be in the proposal, obviously. I'm thinking Kay for the second person, and either Rein or Elieson for the third. Originally I'd thought that Rein was more scummy, but looking at a couple of other games I've seen with him in them, it's just his style to not post very much. And Marth has made some pretty good points for why Elieson is scummy. Originally, I'd thought that Eclipse could auto-win at this point... she can't if Rein decides to Strong Leader after she Strong Leaders. While I don't actually think he would do that, it's not a 100% thing, so the game not being over yet doesn't actually clear anyone. Bleh. Who do you guys think should get the third spot, Rein or Elieson?

For people saying I didn't overreact in GSM... it's not exactly something to be proud of, but I did overreact in GSM. Like when Excellen subbed in and made a huge post about how I was scummy, I got angry and made an OMGUS vote that basically hammered him even though someone (Kay?) had asked everyone to keep the votes tied so that the phase would be extended. It just didn't happen so early because I didn't have any votes on me early.

Legault and Nino. SO MANY BLACK FANG BOSS CONVOS. I have no idea what I'm doing.

Maybe softclaiming that early wasn't the best idea, or necessary, but I just didn't want some wagon to build up on me... I've noticed in several games now that a lot of wagons don't get broken without some really great logic (which is not, unfortunately, my forte) or a claim, and I didn't want it to get to the point where I'd have to hardclaim either. Clearly, it backfired. >_>

What have I done so far? Not much, I'll admit. But still a bit more than some other guys who popped in, made a random vote, and left. And not very much less than people who did more than that. What's the point of asking me what I've done so far less than one day into Day 1? Who HAS done a lot? As for WHY I haven't done a lot, that's because there isn't really anything going. There were two topics of discussion going- Scorri's post, and your PGO claim, so I commented on both of them to the best of my ability. It's also partially why I thought Scorri was more townie- I appreciated the attempt to get some discussion going past RVS. I also won't be back for a while. Since he voted for me alongside his post wondering about what alignment I was, I was talking about how I would flip upon lynch, not upon a Cop report (which would also be town).

Priscilla and... Eliwood, because he has a lot of boss convos. I'm trying to go for a more non-LTC approach to this because I suck at that anyways. Also, I thought Hector x Florina is a lot faster than it actually is. Good thing I didn't actually draft Florina for that...

Sorry, leading was maybe the wrong word. What I meant was starting the discussion. Scorri wasn't trying to control anything as much as get the discussion going. Also, what information would my alignment give you about anyone? Even if I turned out mafia (which I wouldn't), I haven't supported anyone to the extent that you could say that guy must be scum too, or argued against anyone to the point that you could say that guy must be town. Nor has anyone argued against me to the point that they would look more scummy if I flipped town. All that'd happen is that you would end up lynching a role you don't want lynched.

You say my logic is shit, but then you basically say the same thing that I did? Huh? Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but Watchers, as a non-visiting role, do not get killed by PGOs, right? If they don't, it would limit the power of a mafia PGO, because if multiple people die in one night and they all visited the Watcher's target, it'd be pretty obvious that this person was a PGO. And if they were a PGO that didn't claim, that's pretty scummy. Note, I don't think that Haze is a mafia member, because claiming as a PGO makes sense; I'm just saying that people shouldn't go PGO means auto-town.

Sure, but as I see it, there's a difference between being an active part of the discussion, and attempting to lead it. The former makes you seem more townie, and the latter, while also doing so, helps the town get more organized and circulate ideas and scumhunt more actively, which, ultimately, is a bad thing for the mafia no matter what.

Could you link me to your FE5 character rating topic? Looked for it for a couple minutes and couldn't find it.

For some reason, I'd thought that Haze was joking with his announcement... Interceptor also differs from PGO in that the Interceptor kills someone who visits his target, not someone who visits the Interceptor himself, although I suppose he could target himself. While Scorri's three points might have been mostly obvious, I don't think it was a particularly scummy thing to do. It doesn't make sense for a mafioso, even a more active one, to try and lead discussion.

The rules about undrafted units say that they're not allowed to build supports. Since is this format, supports actually go towards points, I'd argue that PPB should have both Pent and Louise for the talks to count. Especially since it's essentially 12 free points as support grinding won't be necessary. Alternatively, I could just draft Louise, so meh.

Hector x Florina OTP!

##Vote Cap'n Flint Your name reminds me of Cap'n Crunch. I don't like Cap'n Crunch.

Okay, I'll be number 5.

Only if you don't want to play.

Well, let's see what happens with this proposal first. I just realized also that if you're a spy and Rein is not, he could Strong Leader after you Strong Leader and take it away from you. Or you could do it to him. Blah too confusing.

Also, I figure that if both you and Rein were spies, you guys would have come out and said it more conclusively and proved how the game was unwinnable by the resistance. Or Tables would have auto-resolved it.

That's true. But that requires the spyteam to be you and Rein. It could also be you and Elieson.

Aww, I would have liked to be part of this. Well, I can volunteer to be the scorekeeper, then.