RedRob

Hmm, I guess I need to apply to the Izanami of Playing People like Fools to overcome you.... provided the headmistress doesn't kill me. Maybe I'm better off going to the Clover School of Making Your Abusive Dad Your Bitch. I heard the students do quite well against your school.

This was a problem I brought up with Conquest, IS wants it to be the bad route with all of Corrin's angsting, yet still have Corrin as a hero, even with the contradictory premise of invading a country to save it. The story is bipolar, which really affects it's quality. Originally I was going to post something larger, and more philosophical, but I looked backed, realize it was overly dramatic for something like this, and could be faster expressed though using certain characters as examples. A character like Zero from Megaman who said this awesome line? "I never cared about justice, and I don't recall ever calling myself a hero...I have always only fought for the people I believe in. I won't hesitate...If an enemy appears in front of me, I will destroy it!" (Ignore the link, it was like that when I copied and pasted it.) Imagine if Corrin was like that, not caring about right or wrong, just fighting for his family and the people he believed in. Would have been a far more morally complex and engaging character than what we got in Conquest.

I wasn't talking about anyone on this forum specifically. I was talking about people with the mindset where they would mock a character like Eliwood People who are superficial like that, with no real logical argument. It's a pet peeve of mine for people to ignore the circumstances of a situation where a person acts "wimpy". But you guys don't do that, you took Nohrrin's circumstances into consideration, and formed a conclusion from it. You guys are awesome and I love how in-depth the debates here get, though I do tire of how some topics are debated over and over to the point it's like beating a dead horse. (number of times it's brought up, not how long it gets)

I can do you one,two, three better. I'm from the Terumi School of Trolling and Smooth Crimes,Philiius. Don't mess with me.

I was trying to say that if there was any logical reason behind Corrin following Garon, people would complain less about it than the current story, where there is no reason what so ever. Whether I'm right or wrong about that is for you and any one who reads it to decide. And the part about Shinji was more or less a potshot against people who hate any character just for not being macho and crap without considering if that's part of the theme of the story. NGE was partly about the characters various mental problems. Not about a kid fighting in a kickass robot. Well, it is, but it's about when that happens to someone in real life. Shinji a kid, not a soldier, so it's normal he be adversed to fighting aliens to the death. Another example is Hope from FFXIII. I didn't mind him so much as he lost his mom, became a being that is demonized by his society, is hunted down by the military, and has to fight wild beasts on a daily basis to survive. I don't blame him for freaking out, I would have probably would have broken down in that situation. Yet, a lot of people complains that he whines too much So in short, I just hate people who write off any character just because they angst instead of kicking ass. I'm a somewhat understanding guy, so I'm more willing to forgive a character's behavior depending on their situations, given it's written well. There's more to characters than kicking ass. Just to be clear and prevent a misunderstanding, I'm not lumping you in with these people, but that I'm just complaining against those with a "macho or bust" mindset and have no deeper complaint than "he's not superduper manly".

If it isn't, I'll bite my own foot off. And on that note, I think I derailed this thread enough. Let's get back to why we think Corrin is, or isn't stupid.

Hmm, what about one that's been reclassed to corpse?

John Cena. First, he became an anime character, now a Fire emblem character. what's next? Him in Shakespeare? Also, Corn might want to look out for any fire users in Smash. Wouldn't want him to pop.

If you were stuck between choosing between a sister who wants to bone you, two morons for brothers, and Elise, and strangers who claim to be your family, with one wanting to kill you, wouldn't you want to get out of there?

This has already been posted in the thread, and I would like no reposts unless you're commenting on a joke, or making a joke about it, like I did about that one comic where Azura was turned by Corrin killing someone in front of her, or about Corrin being in smash.

Smash Corrin is smart if you ask me. They realizes both sides of their family is crazy and obsessed with them, and is like "Screw it, I'm out of here" and becomes a smasher to achieve fame and fortune. At least, that's how I interpret them.

The biggest problem isn't how Corrin acts, as so much as how the story responds to it and details it. If Corrin face logical consequences for his actions, or they give a better reason for his stupidity, like Garon abused them into submission, or was a kind ruler doing horrible things for the good of his people, or held someone dear to the sibilings as hostages, then there wouldn't be much as a problem. Except from dumbasses who believe characters like shinji ikari suck just because they angst about their problems like regular people do. But the story constantly creates contrived and senseless justifications for his behavior. This, to me at least, is what makes him a Stu, and the other protagonists not a stu. The others don't have the story bending backwards to justify their actions. Micaiah recognizes her actions as horrible, but knows that they are unfortunately necessary to defend her country, and is called out by people on all sides, and isn't portrayed as a moral paragon. Marth is just defending and reclaiming his kingdom. Eliwood was killing those who were plotting to take over the country and overthrow the king while trying to find his missing father. No excuses are made and/or needed to justify their actions. But Corrin, is for all intents and purposes, a self-righteous fool who the story wants us to see as a hero, even though he essentially helps kill thousands of innocents in order to "save" those people's country, and follows orders from a man who is obviously evil to the point Xander and the others are stupid for following him. He also have people like Iago who wants to make him miserable. Why? We don't know, he just does. At least other villains have reasons like they are insane or want revenge or are greedy. But Iago is never given a reason, making him more of a plot device to make us fell bad for Corrin than a person acting for his own goals. Heck, they even have Takumi, who was right in trusting that Corrin won't help Hoshido, at the end of conquest apologize for that, even though his suspicions of Corrin was right, since Corrin did kill Takumi's follow countrymen and his brother, Ryouma, in that route, just to cement Corrin's status as a "moral paragon" even though he isn't. Innocents are dead by his own hands, just so he could "save" them from his tyrant of a father, and yet the story still tries to tell us he can do no wrong. Quite the paradox isn't it? In short, He's a stu because the story constantly makes excuses after excuses to establish him as someone who can do no wrong, even after innocents are dead due to his actions, and all he does through the story is whine about how he can't save people, and only revolts after Hoshido is conquered and who knows how many are dead. Here's an idea, kill Hans and Iago and pass it off as them dying in battle, instead of whining about all the people they killed, and prevent them from killing more. It doesn't help that the story tries to portray Conquest as the wrong route with Corrin's constant angst over all the people he killed, while in Birthright we see no angst about him killing Nohrians, yet they pull stuff like the takumi thing above in to try and absolve him of any wrongs. If I have been too vague in my comment, it's because I working a lot off of my memory, it's a bit late and I'm tired from staring at my screen, and I been writing, editing and checking stuff for this comment for nearly an hour, and I don't want to waste more time checking stuff while who knows how many comments have been posted. Though I'm pretty sure Thane will be happy to expand on my points and clarify them. He probably has all his complaints about Conquest memorized like the back of his hand. EDIT:Okay, looks like maybe half a page to a page of comments have been added to this thread since I started typing.

Unfortunetly for her, Jigglypuff is in smash. Fairy-type vs dragon-type. We know who's going to win.

Maybe they could do both. Have the parents say something touching when they're killed, and you got something both heartwarming and heart wrenching.

So in other words, all debates have to beat a dead horse? I agree that Conquest's story is horrible, but we got enough threads as is for talking about that, with most agreeing it's bad. The only way that dead horse could be any beaten more was if it was a Risen. Now as for the DLC, if Anankos won, perhaps we might see him use his powers to resurrect the 1st-gen to mess with the kids. A rehash of the deadlords from Future Past they might be, but hey, why mess with a good plan? He'll have powerful warriors and it'll make the kids more hesitant to fight.

Shouldn't we get back to talking about the DLC, not what characters we like and dislike?

Here's my thoughts on how the Future past-like dlc could play out, copied from what I said on the Nintendo Direct discussion thread. Some of these are replies to others on that thread, so that's why they might sound slightly weird, due to lack of context Post 1 So I remebered that nordopolica said something about the DLC possibly being route exclusive,which could solve the dead dads dilemena.So if birthright, then we won't have Siegbert, Soleil, Velouria or Ignatius, and possibly Midori If Conquest, no Kiragi, Shiro, Asugi, Hisame, or Selkie But considering what has been shown so far, and the fact that you can avoid killing some of these characters's fathers, it's either an alternate universe, or there's going to be some inconsistencies. post 2 The top post was where I got the idea of them possibly being route exclusive, but if they were, well I already outline the possible inconsistencies, so alternate universe is the most likely, so I agree with you on that. Wish they were though, I might actually respect IS if they acknowledge the fact the real villain escaped punishment in Birthright and Conquest. Though maybe it'll be both, with it being an AU where the war in both versions lasted longer, enough for all the kids to be born, but the dads still die. No inconsistencies and the kids being motivated by revenge. post 3 though, I realize we are never told if the characters who don't join us if we pick a specific route have a family on that route, so it's possible it won't be an AU, and the kids are still there but who knows. But over all, I'm betting on AU, not taking place after Birthright or Conquest since that means less effort on making sure there is no inconsistencies. I was stoked for this at first, but now I'm worried at how much of a clusterfuck it could be.

I'm honestly surprised Thane haven't shown up yet. And I wouldn't say Thane whines, so much as rant, since he does actually lay out his reasons, instead of just saying the story is bad.

The top post was where I got the idea of them possibly being route exclusive, but if they were, well I already outline the possible inconsistencies, so alternate universe is the most likely, so I agree with you on that. Wish they were though, I might actually respect IS if they acknowledge the fact the real villain escaped punishment in Birthright and Conquest. Though maybe it'll be both, with it being an AU where the war lasted longer, enough for all the kids to be born, but the dads still die. No inconsistencies and the kids being motivated by revenge.

That seems very logical, considering you never really solve the main problem which was you-know who in those routes. (Could somebody please teach me how to do the spoiler thing?) But some characters die in either route so some children will be out. Like if it was conquest, Kiragi wouldn't be around. Unless it involves the Deeprealms. So if you're right, the writing is probably going to be horrible and inconsistent.

She's probably trying to seduce Corrin or somebody.

So that's why Azura doesn't say anything about Valla in Birthright or Conquest to stop the war. She gets off on people being murdered. So how long before Leo tries to kill him? If you don't get the joke, use this one as a clue Leo: I'll take a tomato... AND EAT IT!!! Looks like something Nagi from Hayate the Combat Butler drew.