Kaoz

Makaze's time is up (remember to get back to Blitz's two questions). Post nominations.

Makaze [5]: Shin, Blitz, Crysta, Gaius, Junk Polydeuces [4]: Shin, Gaius, SB, Vhaltz Crysta [4]: Gaius, SB, Reinfleche, Blitz Gaius [3]: Crysta, SB, Vhaltz Rapier [2]: Shin, Crysta It's Makaze's turn.

So, for starters I would like to apologize for the low activity. I knew I wasn't going to be able to post much going into the game, but I didn't expect it to be quite this bad. However, things kept piling up and I need a solid amount of time to make a post I'm at least somewhat satisfied with. I don't have much in terms of gameplay comments since I've already forgotten most of the specifics, but I'm going to explain the Refa NK since people seemed confused by it. First of all, Refa targeted me with his role D/N2, so combined with what Snike had said we got confirmation a role like that existed. Then we figured out what Snike's results crumb was from there and knew two of the actions. By going through the vanilla claims and taking into account who else had been targeted (Snike and Paperblade) we were able to narrow down the possible suspects to Blitz and Refa. Since the action I was forced to take was to Bodyguard Paperblade we then assumed that whoever had the role was scum reading me and out of the two that was only Refa. GG, guys.

##Vote: Haze

Snike, why would Refa targeting anyone clear them? Especially considering everyone's been here since then and nobody has claimed to have been targeted. I'm overall happy with Snike's content outside of that thing. It's something to come back to once scum!Haze is confirmed, but I didn't want to put too much weight on an associative read without having that confirmation first, if that makes sense. Anyway, deadline is in less than 8 hours if I'm not mistaken. Will definitely not be around at that time (who will be?). We should start to decide on a lynch.

Makaze [4]: Shin, Blitz, Crysta, Gaius Rapier [3]: Shin, Blitz, Crysta Polydeuces [3]: Shin, Blitz, Gaius Gaius [1]: Crysta Crysta [1]: Gaius

So, for starters, I'm vanilla too. In other words, everyone still alive claims to have the same role. Next, I'm town reading kirsche and Elieson and am leaning town on Snike. Obviously I know I'm town too. This leaves me with a Blitz/Haze/Shin scum team based on PoE. Talking about these three individually, I'm feeling the least certain about Blitz just because of the sheer volume of his posts - the only memory I have of scum!Blitz is Xenoblade Mafia and he didn't post like that back then. However, I'm not getting a town read from his actual content which puts him below the rest in my mind. As for Haze, I don't agree with kirsche that we should disregard the hammer vote. There was a five hour difference between Paperblade's and Haze's votes and considering Haze referenced Blitz's wall in the same post I have a hard time believing he didn't see the other j00 votes (heck, there were bolded votals between Blitz's and Haze's posts showing j00 at L-1). Finally, regarding Shin - I don't have anything new on him, most of his later content hasn't had the same issues I pointed out before. That doesn't suddenly make those early posts invalid or disappear though. That's all I got for now. I probably won't make another post today, but I will definitely get one in before deadline.

@kirsche #496: Yes, my reason for voting Haze was that I found the other three townier. As for scum reads, not really. I still have the thing on Shin I've been going on about for most of the game, but I didn't think it would've been helpful to reiterate it again when we were focusing on the four others, especially since I knew I wouldn't be around the next day. #537: This game as a whole is pretty close to the back of my mind. Thus, saying that I'm not very invested in scum hunting is absolutely correct. @Blitz #506: What's the thing you picked up on regarding Elieson (near the bottom)? #531: Your conclusion contradicts what you said in #506 from what I can tell. Please explain this. Also, I honestly haven't clicked all the links in this post again, but regarding the one you labeled as self-meta, I think you're misinterpreting Elieson's statement there. From what I can tell, he was saying that Paperblade's read on him didn't reflect his game as a whole which is different in my opinion. Incidentally, Elieson, why didn't you point this out or reply to this post? @Snike #509: I feel like I should clarify this. I didn't say that you had no case on j00 and I didn't say there was anything wrong with you voting for her. But to me it read like your earlier posts had the sentiment "Haze is clear on investigative results, I don't even need to look at his content" and that's what I took issue with. Splitting post due to length.

Time's up. Post nominations.

I fear I won't be any less busy the following days, my apologies. In fact I won't be around at all again on Sunday, but I'll try to get something out tomorrow at least. @Paperblade #448: Could you elaborate on this, please? I don't remember. @Elieson #419: Regarding #147, looking back I think the point of confusion is that you call Manix a town hero in one quote and then say you're still scum reading him in the other. Was that a misinterpretation? Fair enough on the second bit. #455: Explain how Haze's claim was an "impulsive townslip." Shin has already argued against this in #458, but I would like to hear your side of the argument and, in case you think you're wrong after all, what you make of that post now. #481: If I had to take a stab at those posts, I would say that he committed to scum!you and town!Haze. Could you cite which posts you felt he should've followed up on, but didn't? I'm not really getting anything of that sort from a quick skim. @Snike There are a lot more possibilities where you wouldn't catch scum with a track than the ones you listed. What's your opinion on Haze's actual play? I don't like how you're dismissing Haze so easily and don't even comment on his posts; reads like you're trying pretty hard to hold on to your j00 vote. So, if we're lynching from the wagons today I think I'd go for Haze. Paperblade is bleeding town and I still feel good about j00 from the end of D1. This leaves me with Snike and Haze and I feel the former's posts are more solid overall. I also feel Snike should be looked at harder if Haze is scum because of what I said above though. ##Vote: Haze

Mancer [7]: Shin, Gaius, Marth, Crysta, Boron, Blitz, Vhaltz Makaze [5]: Shin, Gaius, Marth, Crysta, Blitz Polydeuces [3]: Marth, Blitz, Vhaltz Gaius [2]: Crysta, Vhaltz Rapier [1]: Shin Crysta [1]: Gaius It's Mancer's turn. Someone let him know, please.

Mancer [4]: Shin, Gaius, Marth, Crysta Makaze [4]: Shin, Gaius, Marth, Crysta Rapier [1]: Shin Crysta [1]: Gaius Polydeuces [1]: Marth Gaius [1]: Crysta

Got distracted and gotta leave now. Concentrating on Iris and Elieson as a result. Reading through Iris' posts, it feels like there's a lot of noise. As in, she brings stuff up, but then doesn't really follow up with it. Like in #284, she says she's considering those questions as well, but her only follow up to the third one is that they should be looked into and she doesn't get back to the first one at all from what I can tell. Basically there are few conclusions that aren't linked to scumreading Elieson. There's the context of the switch at the end of D1 as well, although I feel that could be attributed to the generally too fast pace during that time. Overall I'd be cool with this lynch though. I was gonna say Elieson's content is lacking today, but luckily he's actually been posting stuff and it looks fine. If memory serves you haven't addressed one of Iris' posts asking about #147 and #148 yet though? That said, we're not turboing Blitz. ##Unvote ##Vote: Iris I'm leaving now, so switching to one of the actual wagons of the day. Someone else who's gonna be around longer, please unvote if you want to avoid accidental hammers.

Elieson (3) - Iris, Blitz, Refa Iris (3) - Paperblade, Snike, Iris Shin (2) - Kaoz, j00 Kaoz (2) - Shin, Elieson j00 (1) - Haze Also, missed this. It's a semantics read.

It's perfectly logical. Would you rather have slots in XYLO that you have a chance to get a read on or those that you don't have a chance to? Obviously the former, and with Dormio's motivation levels at the time I made my post, he fell into the latter category. He didn't give a reason for that vote, hence I asked for clarification. That's all. Yeah, it was an eclipse game. But anyway, didn't know about that. Thanks for clarifying. Also, phase ends in less than three hours, doesn't it? Who is here and who wants to lynch who?

I'm kind of here, but also kind of dying from heat. Elieson, I didn't vote Dormio at any point. I said I don't want his slot to survive till XYLO because having a slot like that in XYLO sucks. I also said I didn't want him lynched over two of the other three wagons, so this makes literally zero sense. As for my vote on Shin, I've simply not been getting a whole lot in terms of scum reads. I also don't have the same level of motivation I had three years ago, so I'm not really killing myself over it. In this context, Refa, why are you saying that my vote is weak in #362 when you were still agreeing with my reasoning in #301? @Blitz #341 (1) I thought it was townie because he kept the vote until he himself actually understood the situation instead of dropping it half-heartedly, but he did switch after gaining that understanding. I think that's a townie thing to do. Also, I don't agree with using something Randa did to case Elieson. (2) Where was I waffling on Elieson? The only other time I even mentioned him before then was to ask him a question. @Paperblade #358 Didn't Haze and SB bus each other pretty hard in that one game --- Hard NOCs? Only really got around to addressing stuff about/at me, but I got class now. Will go through some ISOs later though at least.

Post nominations. Haze can answer stuff for one more day since he started late.

To preface this post, I won't be around tomorrow. So, let's see. I don't think either vanilla claim is meaningful since it says in the OP that there's a "non-zero number" of vanillas in this game and vanilla is a fair fake claim for a power role too, especially D1 (it gets riskier later on). I don't think the self-vote/offer is inherently meaningful either, it's basically AtE. I'll give Elieson some credit for actually voting himself when it was just before deadline though and because he apparently didn't know what was going on. Does anyone think Elieson lied about coming back so late though? Regarding votals, Haze and Elieson both came in too late for their votes to be meaningful in determining the lynch target and j00 was voting there because of not-me-over-me from what I can tell, so I don't feel like their votes are very telling. Beyond that though, who was even scum reading Dormio? Refa, Snike and Shin I think? Overall it read to me like people switched because not enough people could agree on one of j00/Elieson and then everyone got cold feet after the vanilla claim. As such, the most you can read out of these, in my eyes, is whether Refa/Snike/Shin cases on Dormio were reasonable or not (I don't have time for this though, so I'll be relying on you guys). I get a good vibe from j00's #233, but because of the first line and not the second. Snike was content with an Elieson lynch at that point and there were enough people for it, so I think scum!j00 could've just rolled with that instead of encouraging him to keep trying for one of her/Dormio. This is also different from offering to self-vote since self-voting is more of a calculated action whereas this line seemed very spur of the moment to me. In conclusion, both Elieson and j00 had townie actions towards phase end, although I think either of them would've been a better lynch than Dormio regardless on the sole basis that it wouldn't have been a turbo. Iris, what's your stance on Snike's guess for the Manix kill? You said that it was good of him to pick up on it, but does that change your opinion on Elieson in any way? Furthermore, if you're sticking to your own logic, why doesn't that factor into your Refa read considering Manix was going after him as well? Also, in your #284, I don't understand what you're trying to say in the line before the vote, could you explain it to me, please? Shin, I can't tell if you're voting Blitz for inactivity or for what he did or didn't do while he was active. If it's the latter, do you feel Haze and my posts were better than his in terms of quality or are you scum reading either of us? Iris, if you're specifying that Haze has been trying, does that mean Blitz and I haven't in your opinion? If so, explain why and if it means anything to you. There's a lot of stuff I haven't covered, but I'm out of time, sorry. I'm gonna stick to my Shin vote from yesterday since his posts since then haven't really changed my opinion on him. I'd also be down with lynching Iris from what I've seen so far. ##Vote: Shin

I haven't finished reading, but slow down guys!

It's the way you worded it that bothers me. Like, something like early cases generally having less back up than later ones is generally normal, but I feel like the way you worded it allows you to make the vote so weak that it's a very easy switch-off later on and I think town wouldn't go out of their way like that. No, Dormio stance read normal to me. I think it's weirdly worded. From what I can gather, Elieson interpreted Manix's motivation differently at first in that he thought Manix voted Shin without an actual purpose and found it inadequate for that stage of the game, or something. I feel like this is more likely to be a genuine misunderstanding though. I feel like the last line in parenthesis was her just accepting Manix's post as it was in a "Don't have anything to comment on"-way. I voted him based on the stuff I mentioned in one of the paragraphs. I just called it "gut" because it's definitely closer to that than any logical conclusions. @Iris I answered Snike's question about the "post limit" in my #91. @Paperblade Is Snike scum? I don't care if it's a gut read or whatever, but I'd like you to answer this. Also, are you still voting Elieson because you're scum reading him or do you just feel worse about him than the rest? @Levity How do you feel about j00's #117? So, consolidation. From what I can tell we're looking at j00 and Elieson as primary targets and Shin and Dormio as secondary ones. I don't like the Dormio slot for what should be obvious reasons, but it's more like I don't want his slot to be around when push comes to shove - laziness isn't alignment indicative. Manix, why is he lazy scum in your opinion? And Blitz, I'm pretty sure scum blatantly claiming to not have read the thread has happened before; do you have any other reason to believe he's town? Overall, I wouldn't be opposed to this lynch, but it's not my top priority. Shin hasn't had much new content since my last post, would still lynch here. I can see part of the j00 cases, pretty much what Haze said and then find it odd how she sticks to the vote like that. Feels like she didn't try very hard to understand the motivation behind Elieson's vote which I feel is especially important on a traditionally "easy" lynch. Leaning town on Elieson myself, the way he stuck to and then backed off Manix reads positive to me, wouldn't want to lynch him. In summary: Shin > j00 > Dormio > Elieson

Haze [6]: Refa, Blitz, BBM, Reinfleche, Paperblade, Kaoz Mancer [5]: Shin, Baldrick, Boron, Crysta, Marth Rapier [2]: Shin, Prims Makaze [2]: Boron, Crysta Crysta [2]: Baldrick, BBM Proto [2]: Prims, BBM Yolo [1]: Shin Junk [1]: Prims Gaius [1]: Crysta Haze's turn.

@Snike I'm the host of this game and what I say goes, so of course that limit is a thing. But really, I mostly said it because I'm pretty busy and have to sub out if I can't keep up with the content, and I'm already having trouble as-is. I do think it creates a better environment in general though, so it's in your own interest to stick to it as well. While we're at it, I quite liked Snike's #58 and still don't really understand what Dormio's issue with it is. Paperblade, what do you think about that post? Your #75 seems like you're contradicting Refa's point, but I can't tell if you think Snike actually does what Dormio accused him of or whether you think he's scummy. Like Blitz I have a bit of a problem with Shin's #38, although not because it's reactionary (not even sure what Blitz means, would appreciate elaboration), but rather it feels strangely lacking in conviction. He does something similar in his #87 regarding j00 as well (not entirely sold it's necessarily scummy). @Elieson I don't understand why you're voting Blitz. Could you summarize it again, please? That's all that stood out to me that's still current I think (I won't be doing much in terms of rereading btw). Don't have any particularly strong scumreads at the moment, so going with my gut for now: ##Unvote ##Vote: Shin

Mancer [5]: Shin, Baldrick, Boron, Crysta, Marth Rapier [2]: Shin, Prims Makaze [2]: Boron, Crysta Yolo [1]: Shin Crysta [1]: Baldrick Proto [1]: Prims Junk [1]: Prims Gaius [1]: Crysta I don't think he has.

The week is over. Post nominations.

You would know who your scum buddies are, but I fear you may want to double check since I'm not one of them. ##Vote: Haze This is the only logical conclusion. So, in accordance with Prims' notes, every one of you gets 20 posts for D1, Manix and Levity get 25 each, use them wisely. Badly written/formatted wall posts are prohibited. That is all.