Slumber

Of all the debates I've seen here in the last few months, the divide between pre and post-Awakening fans is one that I've never seen get all that heated or toxic. I'm starting to really wonder where this notion that each side of the fandom want the other side dead comes from. It's either a relic of 4 years ago when Awakening actually came out, or it was just always something that only specific parts of the fandom really got into.

Bit more extreme than that. You literally never have Ares and Lex in your army at the same time.

I thought that was a reference to I think it's just supposed to show that Sae knows what she's doing, and can figure stuff out without needing to be in the loop like the rest of the party. I think. It's been a week since I beat the game, so she could totally be aware of the stuff that happened at the very end, that segment just goes by so quickly, so I could just be forgetting. But it's also something Atlus may have left in there when Persona 5: Blood Orgy or whatever comes out.

Definitely not. Plus, if they continue the way they've been going with Awakening/Fates, and tie specific skills to stats, Luck has become INCREDIBLY useful(Armsthrift being arguably the most useful stat-based skill in Awakening).

Probably. Or maybe since there are supports now, they just put more emphasis on those, which develop Claire's feelings towards Gray a bit more. After her C support with Gray, it seems like she gets over her Alm crush, so they likely just removed her joke from her normal ending.

In OG Gaiden. Neither of her Echoes endings mention Alm, both are about Gray. Plus, even her OG bad ending(Gray dead) implies that what she says in her good ending(Gray alive) was a joke.

Claire ends up liking Grey, so I don't know what the point here is.

There's a big difference between "Leaving the group because they have no attachments" and "randomly leaving your husband and children multiple times". People like Navarre were wanders by nature. Sophia was always an enigma, but if she marries Roy, she doesn't disappear. She stays with Roy. And Igrene doesn't just "disappear". She just goes home. And since her home happens to be Nabata, she never sees any of her allies again, because Nabata is an uninhabitable desert. You clearly see a difference here, right? None of these people leave somebody they've committed themselves to. Sophia straight up just stays with Roy if she supports with him. And don't use Heroes quotes. That stuff isn't canon at all. She comes off as cheerful in Heroes, but her Alm supports in Echoes explicitly state that she's happy so long as she can be with Alm, and that she can't/won't change, while her supports with everyone else are hostile or flippant depending on whether she sees them as a threat to her and Alm. Taken together with her supports(Actual dialogue in the game), you can easily put it together that Faye is unhappy in her normal life, and disappears to go see Alm, the only person that she has explicitly stated that she's happy around. You can try to reason around this, but with everything else about the game, and the fact that she only has ONE ending(Which happens to be more in-tone with the bad endings of everyone else), I am almost positive that the intention of the ending is to say that Faye's living an unhappy, unfulfilling life. She's certainly not intended to be portrayed like a good mother/wife.

Then you're bringing up something nobody's even arguing about. Nobody's railing on characters who simply like the main character. The lead up to her disappearing is the term "despite", following the appearance of her settling down. I don't think I need to point it out to anyone, but "despite" is a term to point out contradictions in a statement/situation, in fact being "in spite of". "Despite" the fact that she had found a husband, she was still pining over Alm and straight up abandoned her family without warning on multiple occasions. No matter how frequent or infrequent this is(It's often enough for it to take up half of her ending), this is incredibly unhealthy behavior, and not something a mentally sound/happy person does, especially given the context of her disappearances.

I kind of think you're looking at it the wrong way. You seem to be putting more value in a game ending a character's journey through static scenes, compared to starting a character's journey through static scenes. P3 does the former, P4/5 does the latter. If you like the former more than the latter, cool. You just want to see a different way of character development than what 4/5 give you. But I don't think 4/5 have inherently less because of it. P4/5 are also a lot more about camaraderie, which is why you see less scenes where characters develop outside of the main characters' perspective. Again, half of SEES fucking hated the other half. It makes sense in that context why, say, Ken would realize what happened between Shinji and his mom by overhearing Akihiko talking in this context. But look at P4 or P5. While it doesn't happen all at once usually, there are tons of scenes throughout P4 of the group getting to find out Yukiko's weird ass sense of humor, which she shows more and more as she starts feeling more comfortable around her group of friends. It's something minor that develops over the course of the entire game, while her Shadow and social link deal with her insecurities as a hotel heiress and the expectations put on her. There are tons of things like this that we see for nearly every character in P4/5, because they clearly become more comfortable around their friends. It's a different way of doing it. It's not quite as dramatic as like, the stuff with Ken/Shinji or Junpei/Chidori in P3, but it's still there, just in different ways. I also think the change for major character development being put at the beginning of a character's story/in their social links was more of a change for consistency. I've talked with people about this before, but the way they did it in P3 made for some big inconsistencies. Social links are supposed to be about your main character getting whoever they're linking with open their hearts. In P3, where a lot of characters go through major changes over the course of the story(Persona awakenings were even tied to story moments), it became REALLY weird when you'd start linking with characters, and they'd never mention these relatively huge moments in their lives that just happened. Akihiko wouldn't bring up Shinji's death when it'd make sense, Mitsuru wouldn't talk about her dad getting crucified in front of her, Yukari wouldn't talk about learning what actually happened with her dad. Stuff like that. Which is why I think they went with the "Learn about the character's main dilemma FIRST, then use social link to learn more about them" direction in P4/5. Yeah, it kinda sucks, because you might never learn about or resolve several character's problems since they're more dependent on actively engaging with them, but it makes sense to some degree. It makes sense that you'd never learn about It makes less sense that Mitsuru would never bring up her father dying horrifically in front of her when you do her social links and learn about all of the problems she has being the leader of SEES and juggling schoolwork and all of her other responsibilities. Again, I don't think P4/5 characters have less development than 3, just that it's presented in basically the opposite fashion for the sake of the development being more coherent if/when you decide to develop your social links.

It says she's unable to settle down, never forgetting Alm. It's pretty heavily implied that the live she lives after the game is not a happy one, and the man she married was well aware of this and married her knowing that she'd never get over Alm. The actions in her ending are not the actions of a happy, healthy person. The "mysteriously disappearing" part more or less cements this. Compare her ending to nearly... everyone else. The tone of her ending is a lot more along the lines of other characters' bad endings. And constantly disappearing, worrying her family is the sign of a bad parent/wife. Look at Goku. Dude saves the world multiple times, but the Dragon Ball fandom can't stop pointing out how awful of a father/husband he is because he spends most of his time training, leaving his family with little notice. Faye played a bit part in unifying Valentia. Compared to Goku, she may as well be Satan in pigtails.

FE1-3 are a bit different, due to the scant characterization of side characters in those games. FE4 - Sigurd has Dierdre, but he reciprocates her feelings, and there's no creepy stalker stuff going on with Dierdre(Well, until Alvis brainwahses her, and that's the opposite. Alvis is the one obsessed with her, for bloodline purposes). Seliph has Julia for a short while, but that shit ends quick when they find out they're siblings. FE5 - Nobody is "obsessed" with Leif. He's close with several girls, like Nanna, but none of them go anywhere, given that the game is a mid-quel. FE6 - Nobody's obsessed with Roy. He has people like Lilina, but that all depends on supports. There's nobody who joins or follows Roy because they couldn't live without him. FE7 - Eliwood shows interest in Ninian before Ninian shows interest in him, and the two don't even have to end up together. And again, Ninian spends most of FE7 away from Eliwood because she thinks she might be a burden, or because she's a dragon. She's not obsessed with him. Hector doesn't get anyone who is "obsessed" with him, either. FE8 - Ephraim has Tana, but she's FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR from Tharja/Camilla level, and her feelings towards Ephraim are definitely not her main character trait. Her main character trait is being a free-spirit tomboy princess. You really only learn about her crush if you support her with Ephraim. FE9/10 - I shouldn't even have to explain this one. FE12 - You basically explained this one. Katarina doesn't even express her feelings towards Kris. It's far from the main part of her character. Even Cordelia has more going on than "I have to bone Chrom". Which says a lot, given the tunnel-vision nature of FE13's characters. It's mostly just Tharja, Camilla and Faye who exhibit this "We exist purely to obsess over the main character" thing that has rubbed so many people the wrong way.

If there are multiple cavaliers, have them do what they did in PoR/RD, where they're stuck to a primary weapon, and you can sort of pick their roles based on what weapons they obtain as they promote(FE4/5 had these separations, too, but RD/PoR is more recent and more people know about these). But there still shouldn't be more than 5 or 6 cavaliers(Assuming the army size is at least 60-70 units). As much as I like Thracia 776, we don't need 50 cavaliers like we had in that game(Especially since Fergus was really the only good one besides Finn, since he didn't lose his primary weapon upon dismounting). I think one for each weapon type(Lance, sword, bow, axe), and then maybe one or two Paladins. Basically exactly what RD/PoR did. Other than that at least two of each class. For classes that use rare stuff like dark magic, one unpromoted, and one promoted.

There's a difference between full on disrespect(Like Ryuji/Morgana) and just teenage ribbing. The banter between the characters in P4 seems more like teenage ribbing, even the Teddie/Yosuke interactions(Plus, Teddie deliberately acts like everything just rolls off of him, and it isn't until his shadow shows up that the party even realizes that Teddie has anything bothering him behind his jovial, pun-spewing personality). Yeah, the group sees Kanji's shadow which showcases his insecurities, but they don't ever directly make fun of Kanji's sexuality. The closest they ever get is making Kanji crossdress, but all of the dudes got roped into that. It's not like they were singling out Kanji because he may or may not be gay. Hell, none of them even point out how uncomfortable Kanji seems to be around Naoto when they all still think Naoto's a guy, which would be the prime opportunity to "disrespect" Kanji over what they saw from his shadow. Instead they're more just like "Hey Kanji, chill out". Most of Kanji's ribbing comes from him having a short temper and being kinda stupid. Now, there is the camping trip, where Yosuke seems to be uncomfortable sharing a tent with Kanji, but even he realizes how much he's screwed up when Kanji storms out of the tent to prove his "Manliness", and that's pretty much the last time he comes off as insensitive to Kanji in regards to his insecurities that caused him so much torment. Compare to Ryuji/Morgana, where Ryuji just openly calls Morgana useless, to the point where Morgana Now, there definitely IS better camaraderie than in P3, but like, half of the group hated the other half in P3, and very few ever interacted. Shinji didn't even want to be there, and Ken was only there in the hopes that he could kill Shinji. Yukari, meanwhile, acts like she'd leave Mitsuru and Junpei to die if she could, and Junpei likely would return the favor. Aigis is really only concerned with the main character, and Koromaru is a dog that can't talk. The only people who would likely be part of SEES of their own accord(And for good reasons) are Mitsuru, Fuuka, and Akihiko. P4 and P5 seem like games about teenagers who organically bond over their journeys, while P3 seems more like a game where random teenagers are tossed together to save the world.

The tone of this argument is why I think Serenes has gotten a bad rap over the years. It's a bit needlessly hostile for arguing over an FE character in a game that hasn't even come out yet. That said, while I wish you'd calm down, @BANRYU, I do agree that there likely is some unintentional sexism in Faye's development. Obviously not like anyone at IS is sitting at a desk, writing the script for this game, twiddling their fingers and going "HAHAHA, STUPID WOMEN, THIS'LL SHOW THEM", but I think there's something in the writing process that got in the way of what they were trying to do with Faye. I think Faye is supposed to be a deconstruction of the Camilla/Tharja type. The creepy stalker who is completely obsessed with the main character, and incredibly mean and petty to virtually everyone else. While Tharja and Camilla live happy lives and keep up their stalker-y tendencies no matter who you hook them up with(Camilla straight up tells several of her options that they're basically just there to fill a Corrin sized hole in her heart), Faye lives an explicitly unhappy life and is a terrible mother/wife to the nameless dude she hooks up with and the kids they have. Faye's theme, as has been pointed out, is basically an inability to change, and her example is a bit truer to life than how we see Tharja and Camilla end up. Because of her inability to change, Faye ends up miserable(Compare, again, to Camilla, who even in Birthright, where she would be most likely to meet a terrible end, winds up living and freeing herself from Garon because of her obsession with Corrin. Her Hoshido counterpart, Takumi, doesn't get this same luck.). BUT, while many deconstructions end up being mean, with overused tropes and writing techniques falling apart when an author decides to take them in realistic directions, there are multiple ways you could do a deconstruction. Rather than simply having her follow the same path as Tharja and Camilla, then end up miserable instead of living a fulfilling life, they could have had her overcome her vindictive, stalker tendencies in a much healthier way. This would get in the way of the whole "Her theme is about how she simply cannot change" thing, but it's arguable that she didn't even need to have a theme like this. You can still do the "People who refuse to change end up miserable, while those who move on may find happiness" spiel if there was just ONE support where she ended up changing, and led to an ending where she didn't inexplicably vanish from her family(Likely either to see Alm or because she's mentally broken at that point) for periods of time. And this is where I think the "sexism" bit comes in. Again, I don't think this was the intention, but because of who Faye is supposed(Likely) to be a response to and how her development pans out, this comes off as "Women have obsessions with men, and if they can't get over their childish crushes, they can only be miserable". The theme of "Faye can't change" doesn't help, either, since the only aspect of her we see that she refuses to change is her obsession with Alm. It's the sole aspect that seems to be leading to Faye's misery, and apparently the only part of her personality worth commenting on. I just hope that after Faye, IS has gotten over this whole "Vindictive female obsessed with male character" convention that they've been using for the last few years. Like, they didn't used to have this problem. It's a very recent development for the series, and to have three straight games of it(And Faye in particular) makes me hope that we're done with the Tharja/Camilla/Faye types.

IS seems to be getting more ambitious, so it's always a possibility for these kinds of things. I would hope that if they ever do this kind of thing, they do it a bit more elegantly than just mashing the two games together and giving characters like Roy and Raigh different growth rates to fit their mother/father. Something like you're suggesting could add a lot to the game, where specific events only happen if specific characters hook up in BS.

Unfortunately this likely wouldn't happen unless Squeenix and Nintendo worked together to make these things happen. And I doubt Monolith Soft is jumping at the opportunity to work with Square again, given how the development of Xenogears was cut short so the team could work on FF8, and then another chunk of the team left when Chrono Cross was cut short to put work into FF9. Then again, if studios like Platinum seem super open to working with companies that screwed them(Capcom), maybe the bad blood between Monolith Soft and Square is behind them. I could actually see a Xenogears remake if the Xenoblade games get big enough. I doubt a CC remake would ever happen, though. Square doesn't seem to give a shit about the Chrono series beyond milking Trigger for what it is. I wonder if they'd keep the event-based star leveling if they remade CC.

World map? Probably Dragon Quest 8. It feels... I dunno, it feels more real/alive than most RPG maps, and it's jam-packed with charm, random time-based events that the game never hints at that you can just stumble across, really good town designs, and just plenty of shit to do without the map feeling cramped. If we wanna talk specific levels, then it's like, all of Psychonauts for me. Even the levels that aren't super fun to play are compelling just because of the concepts and visuals behind them(Black Velvetopia, Brain Tumbler and Lungfishopolis). And some are just a joy to play while also just being amazing conceptually/visually, like the Milkman Conspiracy and Mila's Dance Party. A good 3D platformer is only as good as its level design, and dammit, I'd say Psychonauts has hands down the best level design in basically all of gaming.

Destiny and MMOs do this. These are examples where level up systems usually fail, even in RPGs.

I'm just gonna make it my head-canon that Faye's ending is a response to Tharja, Camilla, and every other character in the last few years who really only have "I am obsessed with this main character." for the last few games. Instead of just pushing their weird obsession onto other characters or disappearing/admiring from the shadows, Faye lives a sad life and probably dies miserable.

I fucking hated Xenoblade's way of doing it, purely because of how the game puts a massive debuff on you if you're more than 3 levels below whatever you're trying to fight. It basically tells you "Hey, don't try to fuck with the level curve at all."

Keep in mind: These total stats aren't a good indicator of whether a unit will be good or not. Not all stats are created equal in Gaiden(And likely carries over to SoV). Attack is usually a lot more desirable than say, skill or speed, due to how promotion gains work. That said, if a unit is still slow as shit and can't hit anything(Atlas), their attack won't be worth shit. Grey is a better example of a unit who seems mediocre actually being really good because of his relatively high Attack growth.

Some games have done that, and I've never really been a huge fan. Chrono Cross comes to mind, where you level up by beating bosses and such. Even though I understand the disdain for grinding, I do like that everything just isn't handed out to you, and you actually need to dedicate time and effort(Usually tedious effort, but still effort) to get your characters their best abilities, maxed out stats, and stuff like that. Chrono Cross, as much as I wasn't a big fan, did it kinda right, since there are a ton of side-quests you can do to get stars to level up, so mainlining the story won't flat-out get you to max level and everything. Lost Odyssey does something like this, where you're more or less EXP-gated as time goes on, and weak enemies stop giving you enough EXP to level up, encouraging you to keep going to level up than stick in the first forest fighting fairies or whatever. These are fine systems, but I'd almost never prefer them to games where you can grind if you want. The only times I'd prefer it are in games with level scaling. Games that have only done just story level ups, though, I think defeat the purpose of an RPG. If you're at a set-level for every major fight, it kind of ruins the feeling of progression, since then EVERYTHING will scale with you as the story dictates. I think Paper Mario Sticker Star did something like that(Can't remember, been a while), and Sticker Star sucks.

The vast majority of reviews in the west were very positive for DeS, and I think a lot of Japanese reviews were mostly positive. It was just Famitsu being Famitsu.

This has confused me for so long, and now it makes way more sense.