omegaxis1
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Posts posted by omegaxis1
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1 minute ago, joevar said:
you mean Nyna?
so in other words, it would be a plausible what-if scenario with some differences key points but the outcome of the next major conflict will mostly be same?Oh, I was going by the case of Caeda being alive, but Marth still being married to Nyna. Caeda wouldn't be happy.
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I think that if they had married, while Marth and Caeda wouldn't have truly been happy, they would have accepted things. Marth might have no love for Nyna, and vice versa, but they do understand one another and ultimately have a mutual respect for each other. Them marrying would have brought a decent marriage at the very least as they accept their duties.
Hardin going crazy would not result in a great war happening, as Marth would not have to struggle against Hardin's rebellion.
The entire War of Heroes in Archanea was just a distraction for Gharnef to find and kidnap the Four Maidens and sacrifice them to revive Medeus, which would not have happened otherwise. So that makes it impossible for his goals to be accomplished.
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12 minutes ago, Nym said:
The twin Morgan are adorable! @TheSilentChloey
This is everything Morgan fans ever wanted. ❤️
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2 minutes ago, joevar said:
because by then the heroes need to be even smarter which will be harder to pull off. 100% possible of course. just rarely seen it. the thing is Fire emblem writer always consist of several people after Kaga departure so it may or may not be one of the reason inconsistencies pop up here and there.
Yeah, making the heroes be smart is generally tough to do, because if they are smart, it's a question on why they didn't notice the bad guys sooner or something. Or it might be an annoying twist like with Robin tricking Validar because he was already ahead on the plan with the fake Gemstones.
2 minutes ago, joevar said:you mean, if a certain number of NPC dies, then we lose the battle but story will still continue?
I was more going on about how they would show the battle being tougher than usual, but that would be an interesting take.
Alternatively, could have have the final prologue chapter of Shadow Dragon, where a bunch of ridiculously strong NPC units show up and you have to use a decoy by sacrificing a unit.
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13 hours ago, joevar said:
in a game where losing a fight means losing a unit permanently, i dont even know how to make a scene where you lose without it being awkward. other than making your army's side lose because you arent exactly there or fighting somewhere else
Could do it by giving disposable NPCs, I guess. I recall how in Radiant Dawn, there are NPC units that fight alongside you.
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16 minutes ago, Jotari said:
Seal does equal defeat in this case. He turned her to stone and rendered her completely helpless. Jedah later destroys that body leaving just the skull. How could rendering her in such a state, which everybody in the game agrees is Rudolf's doing, not equal defeat? And Rudolf does have dragon blood. He doesn't have a brand like Alm, that's the hero of prophecy thing, but he does have dragon blood which was introduced into the royal families some generations back when Valentia was threatened by an invasion from over seas. That's information that's only found in supplementary material though.
Actually... he does have the Brand.
That's why he can wield Falchion. I think the accordion even mentioned that that's why Rudolf became emperor.
The prophecy simply indicates that there will be 2 that will be born with the Brand. When Alm was born, he also heard about Celica having a Brand as well, I believe.
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Just now, vanguard333 said:
True, though I will just say that Path of Radiance made a huge effort to account for character deaths in its script.
Well, only in the beginning. After that, they seemed to abandon it altogether. Points for effort, though.
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15 minutes ago, Samz707 said:
Sorry but I don't buy someone as trusting as Celica believing Jedah at all, Celica's trusting, not mentally disabled, unless she drowned in the swamp and lost IQ from it, I do not believe she'd be that terminally stupid to trust Jedah, again, you literally hear how he's evil from an entire village, Celica needs to have somehow forgotten the entirety of Sage's Hamlet AND Saber telling her how witches were made for it to be logical for her to even consider what he's suggesting, she's got a ton of evidence that trusting him is not a good idea and literally none that it is.
Game play story segregation isn't really an excuse, if anything that shows how bad the story in the game is, good story based games IMO don't feel like the rules changed when a cutscene started rolling (Hell in TH a guy literally uses a shield spell that doesn't even exist in any game in the entire series in the cutscene where Byleth gets the sword of the creator.), I'm also fairly certain that the Turnwheel is just ment to in-universe be showing the future rather than actual time travel and seemingly always shows a worst-cause scenario. (And I'm sure constantly looking at everyone dying isn't something Alm nor Celica want to keep witnessing so they probably only look at the turnwheel occasionally.)
If Jedah didn't look like a blue frog and didn't cackle like an evil person, sure. Could have just made him as a man obsessed with restoring the gods, because he is legitimately terrified over the prospect of Valentia being without gods, which Celica oughta be able to understand given that she has similar beliefs.
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Wait, it just occurred to me, but didn't the Valentian Accordian reveal that Duma was the one that had Falchion, and the only reason Rudolf even got it was because he convinced Duma to give it to him in exchange for using it against Mila?
In which case, it stands to reason that Rudolf had to attack Mila then, as that was the only way to get Falchion in the first place. And then when he did defeat Mila, Mila sealed it.
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3 hours ago, Fabulously Olivier said:
My Tellius thirst will never be quenched, but I'm predicting 3H and I'd be happy with that.
It's gonna be a crossover with Trails of the Sky, featuring Oliveier. XPReal talk, I think I want some new Awakening characters in now.
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Wyvern Lord + Raging Storm = 10/10
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41 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:
Exactly. Are you adding to my point or trying to disagree with me? I ask because your point is pretty much mine, but you open with, "Which is pretty much the issue".
Adding to your point.
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3 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:
Yeah; I'm late to this specific conversation and don't have all the context for who is arguing what, but I can point out that that's a case of telling rather than showing, and what's being told to the player contradicting what's being shown; something that Shadows of Valentia is quite guilty of in a number of places.
The problem is that the player is shown Alm always being perfect and Celica's actions being in the wrong as she ultimately makes things worse by agreeing to Jedah's deal. The game is supposed to be about balance, working together and bonds overcoming conflicting ideologies but it breaks that lesson by basically having the story favour Alm. That's the problem.
Which is pretty much the issue.
There would be an actual point if, you know, Alm actually took some kind of lesson that Celica said and applied it. But any time that Celica is even mentioned in the story, it has nothing to do with Alm thinking of anything Celica taught him. Then it can be said that Alm's wisdom is more due to Celica, but anything that Alm does, it has nothing to do with Celica's wisdom or teaching. It's Alm getting by cause he's already perfect.
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1 minute ago, Jotari said:
Well she says they've shown her the strength of mankind. But with the context I think it makes far more sense to assume that's emotional strength and perseverance rather than Duma brand strength.
Yes. It was because of their personalities.
Though technically speaking, Alm and Celica are both able to wield Falchion, because it requires those with Divine Dragon blood and bearing the Brand to be able to use it.
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4 minutes ago, Jotari said:
Mila unsealing Falchion just undoes what she herself did earlier by sealing it. She wasn't helping Alm at all by making it inaccessible. She herself states that the only reason she did it was so no one could hurt Duma.
I think the thing is that the only reason that she decided to unseal it and allow them to kill her brother, is because it was Alm and Celica. Maybe it was Celica's self sacrificing nature and Alm's determination to end the gods because it was wrong of them to sacrifice an innocent girl like that which got to Mila, but ultimately, the prophecy was ultimately fulfilled.
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11 minutes ago, Seazas said:
Not a fact. Alm and Celica overcome their trials with Alm personally finding her sort of wisdom valuable. With Alm's trials directly involving him fighting what's right in front of him, which Alm says. Your points are worthless, mostly utilizing headcanons with game dialogue while forming your own conclusions that the game never stated. Along with arbitrary bullshit like Alm needing to lose or Celica is magically worthless. "What? Celica is confirmed the major reason Alm survives the war overall? Doesn't count!"
Now you're really just being silly. Alm's proven that he doesn't need Celica's wisdom, because he ISN'T someone that actually shows to only know how to fight what's in front of him. He's shown to be a level headed thinker, able to issue commands and actually display wisdom for others, especially with how he is able to save Delthea, Mathilda, and even with killing Nuibaba to save Tatiana which lets him avoid killing Zeke. He even deduced that Nuibaba's Celica was just an illusion too.
Sorry, but you are trying way too hard to insist on a fallacy.
The game does not support what you are trying desperately to insist on.
Alm has proven to be a wise leader that doesn't actually need Celica's so called "wisdom", and you trying to insist that is just proving you to be in denial.
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17 minutes ago, Seazas said:
That stupid logic of "Alm has to lose or have beliefs bite him or others cannot matter to him" is the worst. If you're going to use dialogue then Alm directly says himself that he has a lot to learn and he's only made leader because of his connection to Mycen. He serves well with his combat ability and genuine heart. A capable leader worth relying on but never described as wise. Kindness =/= wisdom too so your Fernand point is irrelevant.
Yeah, sorry, your point is overall invalid. You have yet to even PROVE your point, whereas both myself and @Ottservia have the game itself to back up our points. Alm has already shown to be a wise leader that has led the Deliverance to victory and actually save lives while still being challenged by others to the extent that he just outright refutes them easily.
In the end, for Alm's line that he needed Celica's so called wisdom to be applied, the game would have needed to SHOW that her wisdom was applied in the sense that her lessons or themes did apply. But they didn't.
And as I said, it was Alm's wisdom that overruled Celica, where she admitted that she was wrong and he was right, where she was the one that needed to believe in people, which Alm always has believed in.
This is fact. No matter how much you try to insist that it isn't, no matter how much you try to say that Alm isn't wise, or that Celica is wise, the game simply does not back up your point.
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Just now, Seazas said:
Alm doesn't need to apply it, his journey entirely reflects his own way and Celica reflects her own. They come together and play off their separate strengths well. Celica's lack of believing came purely from her past, doesn't mean she isn't smart since she easily handles an entire ragtag group against an army of pirates. Celica never applied any of what Alm told her either, she only really "learns her lesson" when they're together at the respective end of their journeys.
Alm isn't a wise leader, he's charismatic but never officially described as wise. This circlejerk of a thread pushes that idea yet it's never shown or described. Alm proved himself with actions more than words.
Sorry, but that simply only goes to show that Alm doesn't actually NEED Celica's so called "wisdom" then. As I already said, he's already shown to be wise himself with how he treats people and is willing to forgive even people that have become his enemies, from Fernand to even Berkut. He's never once challenged in his beliefs that bites him. The only time something remotely close to that happened is killing Rudolf.
Alm has been a wise leader, as the story has presented him. If you want to insist that he isn't a wise leader, then you should actually prove it with Alm actually screwing up, but that's pretty much impossible since the story always supports Alm no matter what and never lets him be wrong.
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Just now, Seazas said:
Not my opinion of Clive, he's a great character. But pushing this random idea and somehow pretending it's the entire themes are ridiculous. Alm's "answer" is nothing special since other characters were long saying and supporting what Alm believed regarding the noble vs commoner shit. Celica has a wisdom that Alm personally respects and she directly shows it by choosing to approach the problem at its source, while Alm puts all of his eggs in the Deliverance themed basket. Both corresponding each other well since they share similar ideas and desires to help people. Literally only disagreeing at the approach to the war. It's complete and utter nonsense that Alm has to essentially be a headless chicken without Celica nor can he be successful in what he believes. Alm finds value in Celica and there's nothing wrong with that. The game blatantly hinges on their dynamic bond too.
Too bad that the game never once shows that Celica's wisdom actually being really applied to Alm's journey. In the end, as @Ottservia said, Alm never once applies anything Celica's said to him, her "wisdom", into his journey. Not once. He's been showing nothing more than being a wise and charismatic leader that everyone supports and hardly ever proven wrong.
Celica's support of Alm has never been anything more than superficial, from the charm to the power up, they were all things that weren't really by any "lesson" that Celica expressed that Alm's taken to heart. In the end, Celica's the one that saw Alm as the wise one saying how she forgot her ability to believe in others, whereas Alm's always believed in his.
It'd be one thing if there was actually an incident that has Alm remember something Celica said or her knowledge actually being what saves the day, but... nope.
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2 minutes ago, Seazas said:
Your "facts" are full of shit, Alm having good beliefs doesn't make him this wise godsend. Him not being the wise one doesn't mean he needs to be a jackass that thinks like Clive. He's a good guy like how he was in the original and comes out to help people. They simply have different ways of going about it with Celica's journey being the reason Alm survives. Celica has many learning experiences and works out her own things just like how Alm does. Celica is more wise while Alm is sturdy and strong. The only reason Alm and Celica even had the opportunity to help others were because of the gods to begin with.
Uh huh.
Sorry, but the story doesn't support that. The story only supports that Alm is wise and your opinion on Clive doesn't mean anything.The fact is, when Alm is challenged, he already has the answer that he ends up backing, thus the story shows that he is wise.
And Celica doesn't show her wisdom that Alm claims he needs when he's been showing his own wisdom without needing hers. Add in the fact that Celica's "wisdom" is only further cementing what Alm's been saying, it only further proves that Alm never needed Celica's wisdom.
You've been repeating the same nonsense over and over that has already been debunked, and now you're just in denial and being extremely rude about it. It's kind of silly.
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12 minutes ago, Seazas said:
Alm never showed wisdom. Just passion and heart with reliability and strength. Alm's even reckless and rushed out to fight bandits the instant he heard someone was in trouble. He proved himself to Clive through combat ability and winning the battle with minimal losses not his wisdom.
No it's not proven wrong, Celica actually learns what happened to Mila and many other truths and experiences that add to her wisdom. Her journey completely benefitted the Deliverance since they would've been in a shitty spot if it wasn't for Celica. Also, her journey allowed Celica to grow as a character and accept her past a whole lot more.
"Be someone else" is a shit excuse since it's still Celica the one acting and doing these things in benefit for Alm. The major thing Alm and Celica disagreed on was WHERE to fight not fighting at all. Celica didn't want to pursue a war while Alm saw it a necessity. That doesn't make her journey wrong. And you bring up Alm winning the war yet it went far beyond the war and Alm would've been screwed. SOV literally confirmed Alm would've died if Celica never had her journey. Alm is right about everything not needing to hinge on gods, but Celica was also right that gods have a lot of value. Their blessed bloodlines is the entire reason Alm and Celica beat Duma.
You are wrong, especially when you brought up fucking Conrad. The dude that not only wasn't in the original but is a non factor since he only came out BECAUSE of Anthiese.
Now you're in denial. Alm's BEEN showing wisdom, repeatedly, where he's challenged by Clive, who tries to advice him to not save Delthea, only for Alm to rebuke him by saying that there's nothing different between saving a commoner from a princess, and ultimately, Alm is the one proven right when he does save Delthea. Clive even admits that he's wrong and Alm is right, ultimately proving even more that Alm is wise beyond the others.
In the end, you're only trying to reach here by trying to assert that Celica doesn't contradict her own purpose and her journey at all by trying desperately to insist that she is wise.
Sorry, but you need to face facts. Celica doesn't do anything that Alm isn't already shown capable of doing. All Celica does is further prove Alm's end goal in that they don't need to rely on some god to help others. That they don't need gods. Celica's own journey only further cements Alm's.
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2 minutes ago, Seazas said:
Nope, I did since you made an objectively incorrect argument that you never pursued. It wasn't a "now", she always went out of her way to help others. Early in Act 2 when she faces pirates, she believes that helping people would be ideal. Which is something Mila herself would do and aligns with Celica's ideals. It doesn't contradict her goals since she isn't taking part of the war and pursuing the Temple of Mila. Also, the only reason they even slay Duma was because of the gods helping them out and Alm doesn't die in the war was because of Halcyon and his blessings that were also provided by gods. Alm had a point about not letting everything become astray and hinge on gods, but they had their value and Celica's entire journey is the entire reason Alm survives the war. He was right but so was Celica since the true problem was at the source which she actively pursued, something Alm did not do.
You are wrong.
No, you are the one that's wrong.
Celica's point of the journey was that they have to find Mila and get her to solve the problems as soon as possible. By taking these side adventures and then you trying to say that "Mila would want this", you are trying to rationalize it. Celica going on her side adventures ultimately resulted in her actively delaying her journey's goal, and incessantly proving Alm's point. That they don't need gods.
The entire point of Celica's journey, her beliefs, her theme, they are all basically proven wrong by her own actions.
Her giving Alm a power boost or helping him out?
They aren't done by her wisdom or supporting her theme. She's ultimately further proving Alm right in that she's using her position and title as a human and princess to basically say that Alm should keep fighting the war and winning, rather than solving things with the help of the gods.
You are dancing around the point.
But you never actually refuted my point. Celica's journey only proves that she was wrong. She only does what Alm's been doing. Alm's been helping people without needing Celica's "wisdom". The sluice gates? That was never Celica's wisdom. That was her being a princess. You could legit have had Conrad do it since he's also Zofian royalty. The charm? Plot device that could have easily been someone else.
The fact is, the game did a shitty job trying to make it seem that Alm actually needed Celica's wisdom. The point is, Alm was always wise.
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13 hours ago, Seazas said:
Nope, I 100% debunked most of your points because they were garbage. "Celica doesn't stay true to her word!!!1" Directly stays true to her word by helping out many as she can. "Well... she doesn't depend on gods!" The entire reason Jedah got the upper hand was due to Celica's dependence on gods. Alm does not have Celica's wisdom, he's simple minded but passionate and skilled. Along with being the embodiment of Duma's strength, he's physically, emotionally and mentally strong.
Celica has more wisdom but her past led to her being less trusting than ideal. Her path was perfectly valid too since without it, Alm wouldn't have opened the Sluice Gate. Hell, that gate is limited to the Royal line. Celica doing what she did helped Valentia a ton and having the wisdom seek the source of this entire mess is pretty smart. You'd immediately change your tune if you didn't have hindsight bias of Mila not being there. Without Celica as a character, Alm would die in the war. They work better together than apart and all Alm does is have a respectable passion and beliefs along with crushing whoever stands in his way. Not once has he shown an intense wisdom, he even blanked out on huge red flags that was his weird connection to Rigel lmao. He was too focused on battling everything right before him.
Wrong, that only proves MY point. She contradicts herself by saying that they should help people now. By doing this, she now contradicts her original purpose which is to go save Mila as fast as possible, trying to insist that that will actually solve the problems. Not only was she wrong, but she ends up even delaying her goal by trying to focus on saving others, all in all further proving that Alm is the correct, and they should do something now, rather than let some god be the one to save them.
You didn't debunk me even 1%.
I pointed out repeatedly that Alm doesn't need Celica's wisdom, because Alm's ALREADY been doing what you are claiming Celica is doing. Saving helpless villagers? Alm's been doing that already, especially with how he even goes as far as to try and save Delthea as well, which Clive very much tries to say they shouldn't focus on, but Alm refutes him.
And Celica? She doens't prove her wisdom by doing what Alm's doing, and just fighing.
You're literally trying to dance around the subject. You're ust reaching at this point, trying to justify every last bit of Celica's actions, but it actually further proves my point. You aren't debunking me. You're debunking yourself.
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1 hour ago, Seazas said:
That isn't contradictory, she directly says to Saber that she wants to help as many as she can. She'd do "side jobs" because they don't detract from her goal. Mila is the overall goal, Celica doesn't stop going for it, she simply sticks true to her word and goes out of her way to help.
...Celica literally does rely on gods to fix things. She firmly believes that all is lost without Mila, which is fair considering they're the foundation of Valentia.
You're just repeating points I've already debunked. She does have wisdom and starts off the game knowing more than Alm does at the end of Act 1 already. She makes sound decisions with the more rash ones always coming from emotion. Celica also was fairly right since Mila's blessing is the entire reason Alm could wield Falchion and slay Duma. Alm didn't do everything without gods, showing that some of Celica's ideals had merit. He needed her since it's proven in game that he would've fell in battle otherwise.
You didn't debunk anything. You're repeating the things that Alm's already been doing. Celica doesn't prove herself to do anything different from Alm. Alm's BEEN doing the things that Celica's been doing, ultimately proving that Alm never once needed Celica's so called "wisdom", because he's ALREADY wise. Him killing Rudolf was one thing, but that's just it. Apart from that, which is shaky argument at best, Alm's situation was never truly challenged that he ever needed Celica's wisdom to guide him.
Even Celica's "power boost" that she gives him is less her wisdom, and more just further cementing that Alm is right and fighting was the solution.
What if Marth married Nyna?
in General Fire Emblem
Posted
Yeah, I hadn't fully realized when I wrote that that you were going with the idea that Caeda died in Shadow Dragon.
But yeah, if Caeda died, Nyna and Marth would almost surely marry, and Hardin, jealous as he might be, would never be able to raise a military to dare oppose the newfound military strength that Marth would gain if Hardin were to be possessed.