vikingsfan92
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Posts posted by vikingsfan92
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10 hours ago, L3xandr3 said:
Side note, if they make Summer Edelgard, I'm calling BS. She can't swim and is scared of the Ocean!
They also made it a point in heroes specifically that she would like to overcome the fact she can't swim in the videos that came along with cyl4 hear from the heroes video for Edelgard. "as I spend more time here, Perhaps I will warm up to the ocean as well as I have to the other heroes" is one of her lines from that and asks the summoner to watch her progress and says perhaps being in askar is a chance for her to address some of her weakpoints. You could argue they are setting it up as character growth for her. Which is honestly more of a reason than they pick other characters for.
As for the banner I am kind of feeling like they will go no theme and just pick who they want for summer. Because of the above I could actually see a harmonized unit with Edelgard. Maybe Xander and Edelgard as the can't swim duo lol.
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1 hour ago, Dark Holy Elf said:
I generally agree with @lenticular's points. The challenge of a paralogue does vary based on how much player knowledge we're assuming (particularly with respect to certain reinforcements), whether the forced characters have been levelled, and whether one cares about secondary objectives. Also a factor is when we do the paralogues; some of the chapter 7 paralogues are decently tough if done in chapter 7, but there really isn't a good reason to do them in chapter 7 imo. This is because the last week of chapter 7 is not "free" the way the last weeks of other chapters are (because chapter 8 begins with a tutoring session before another weekend), and because chapter 8 brings a large spike in player power (the new battalions, along with silver weapons, that show up in the shop at that point). And in general, most every Part 1 paralogue is pretty easy if you do it in Chapter 11 because by that point your units will likely all be in Advanced classes and those let you overwhelm the maps.
Having said that, I tend to assume a less knowledgeable player for the purposes of talking about challenge. I'll assume they're familiar with the game and how to build characters well, and maybe the broad strokes of each map (e.g. that the Bernadetta/Petra victory condition is a lie) but haven't looked up every detail of how the map works. Here's my top five under those criteria:
- -Caspar/Mercedes. If you aggro a group of enemies but don't lure all of them at once, some of them might charge away towards your underlevelled Caspar/Mercedes. Additionally, the reinforcements if triggered are very likely to kill someone if you aren't ready for them.
- -Yuri/Constance. The reinforcements if triggered at a bad time are brutal.
- -Hapi/Balthus. More nonsense reinforcement triggers.
- -Leonie/Linhardt. Fog, and a tough boss, and you're down a great unit on one of the routes to boot.
- -Claude. Those wyvern reinforcements, and a tough boss.
Honourable mention to Edelgard's for being pretty tough without relying on hiding information from the player (i.e. there are reinforcements, but they're not inteneded to surprise). I also think Lorenz's is pleasantly challenging in the best way if done reasonably early (which you want to do!) and you want the secondary objectives (though if you don't, it's an easy boss kill on turn 1), probably my favourite map of part 1 actually.
I was pretty surprised to see Flayn/Seteth mentioned since I consider that one of the very easiest and always do it in the first chapter it appears precisely because of its reward:difficulty ratio.
Just a minor point that I think the op is intending to exclude the dlc based on the thread title. In which case I assume its Caspar/Mercedes, Leonie/Linhardt, Claude, and Edelgard? I do think the dlc ones are nonsense but based on the title I don't think they count for this.
As for part 1 ones yeah I do think the Lorenz map is probably the most challenging if you actually intend to fight everyone. My second pick for part 1 would probably be Alois and Shamir just because of how spread out you have to be.
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Leonie and Linhardt is my number 1 by far because the boss is the most annoying paralouge boss by far oh and its a fog map. The fact he gets quick reposte and renewal is really annoying oh and no Edelgard or Hubert on Cf. My second pick is the Edelgard one Insurmountable purely for the reinforcement spam which is constant (can't remember if the Hilda version of the map has reinforcement spam but if it does it goes here too). Third I probably would put Petra/Bernedetta as there are some pretty strong enemies and the ambush spawns can be really rough to stop. Fourth I would put Marianne mainly due to the fog.
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I am actually going to champion the fortress knight class a bit there are parts in CS that tanking is actually the best option and you only have one option and that is Edelgard in fortress knight. I also think its probably the best use of foul play you can get. Every unit you get in Cindered shadows hits hard so its pretty interchangeable otherwise but if you focus on moving your tank around it can be useful to position enemies. In particular I think armored Edelgard is good in choke points and against a couple bosses. There are a couple chapters I wouldn't personally mind even more armor teammates but alas Edelgard is the only one with armor capabilities.
But my real answer for any unit in cs is to go by a map by map basis. You don't have to lock anyone into one role. Hilda and Edelgard are two of the orignal cast I can see people switching back and forth on the most.
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3 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:
The thing is, I struggled on AM to even get all of Gilbert's supports (I believe I missed a couple A's). And that was with 8 or so chapters to get it done. I'm not a big fan of putting players in a position, where they have to choose between doing a ton of Auxilliary battles, and actually advancing the story - especially towards the lategame, with the end in sight. So I'd favor giving Fleche some instant C supports, and keeping chains short. But I can respect a different opinion of design.
And on that note, I do believe that Crimson Flower could be extended by 2 chapters, in a way that isn't compromising either its uniqueness, or its thematic narrative. But I'll hold my tongue, as it strays from the intended topic of this thread.
My point was more so about preserving the old campaign for those who like it for gameplay reasons is possible while giving people the additional part that people want of CF vs TWISD. Now people will have preferences on which option they personally prefer between changing the old one or adding it as is and putting it in a separate menu like CS but the option to make new stuff and leave the old game as is there. So if some one wants to keep things as is but get new stuff the option is there
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14 minutes ago, RainbowMoon said:
Yes, my ideal CF would still have only 18 chapters. I know CF's length is a common complaint people have with the route, but I feel that it serves a thematic purpose that I won't go into here for sake of avoiding the whole Edelgard minefield. It also makes the endgame more challenging, imo, because there's less time to overlevel your units (flashbacks to AM Ch.22 getting thoroughly Dimitri'd). I do see your point about having enough time to complete those supports though... maybe I could have Jeritza's C happen before Ch.15 and just story-lock the B. Caspar's shouldn't be an issue though, I don't think. It's only B+ and A that are story-locked, and afterwards there's still two chapters of dining and auxiliaries left to unlock them.
Thing is the addition to cf can easily be and probably has to be cindered shadow style in implementation where it is in its own save space and everything like that. I don't know from a technical standpoint they could do it any other way tbh because it probably would be challenging and potentially problematic to code the existing end to go to a new place not to mention balancing the new maps for wildly different playthroughs. So the main game difficulty probably would be as it is now and the new stuff with its own balance like cindered shadows has.
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On 3/20/2021 at 5:07 PM, Kalken said:
If you're saying the only thing that stops them from doing the obvious (nuke edelgard when she can't possibly survive) is just so the player can't lose then that's just showing that the Slithers are a poorly designed antagonist. They should have never given them such ridiculous capabilities (shapeshifting, mega tech complete with nukes) if they weren't able to properly write with their implied threat level in mind.
There are multiple things I think this doesn't take into account. 1) Launch time of the Javelin of light is unknown and probably takes a bit to aim properly and all of that. 2) The down time between launches is probably considerable considering there is only one launch per route. 3) Given Jeritza was able to know the nuke was coming and warn Byleth to run its possible that the same could happen with launches or someone on the battlefield know that something is up. Keep in mind the armies are way bigger than potrayed on screen and because of their sizes the distances are probably bigger than the maps accurately portray. So launching a javelin might not be as effective as people think because of the respect space that the armies give each other 4) They might have still needed Edelgard to be alive for the plans to work until after the war at least 5) More importantly they might have just plain underestimated where Edelgard was at her Slither removal plot. Its very possible that Corniella's death was their first indication that she is not the puppet they thought she was. Hubert and Edelgard did their best to keep up appearances around twsid and make themselves look trustworthy to twsid and were able to catch Cornellia by surprise. The reason why might be as simple as they didn't think Edelgard was ready to do that and they might have trusted their sources about Edelgard going to the kingdom's capital a bit too much. 6) The battle of Tailten plains which is probably the battle people think that twisd could just nuke them the most was bit messy due to weather. If twisd wanted to nuke all the major players it wouldn't be easy given how staggered and separated the kingdom and church armies were in the battle. Rhea's location in particular wasn't easy to pin down at the start and she is probably the person they wanted to nuke the most. 7) Lastly given real weaponry is effected by weather the javelins might also be depending on how they work so maybe mute for the Tailtien plains simply because of rain alone its an unknown.
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I free summoned Micaiah off the Micaiah revival banner but she showed up with the 4 star special animation.
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3 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:
think people who want to play mostly blind still do. If they learn about the routesplit (and/or others volunteer the information, certainly something I've seen!), it's pretty easy to just contain that information to "get Edelgard's C+ support, talk to her in Chapter 11" or something similar.
The thing is I actually think the way it does kind of incentivizes looking up a guide. A lot of people figure out who the flame emperor is before the reveal but also see Edelgard has an S support option for both genders. Which may seem a bit of contradiction or an oddity that is worth looking up.
3 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:don't think it means CF players are significantly more skilled or knowledgeable at the game, certainly not enough to explain the gap in complaints you see about Reunion at Dawn vs. any other map. The point about restarting the playthrough is fair (I have seen that), but probably not that common.
Its more of a more playtime thing that having to go back causes. Sometimes you make random discoveries in middle of battles that makes you better and more time played makes it more likely for people to have these epiphanies. There have been random no consequence battles that you randomly learn a game mechanic.
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1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:
Plus, he's forced into High Lord. Oh, you trained his Riding rank and made him a Paladin? Too bad, 5-move infantry. You overcame his Axe boon to go Wyvern? Have fun not flying to safety. You made him suffer by forcing him to Dance? Well, enjoy not having a Dancer this map.
Why focus just on Jeritza, though? Hubert and Edelgard are also there, as route-exclusive units. Hubert offers some of the best offensive magic in the game, while Edelgard gets a busted combat art from her crispy shrimp axe.
Mainly because the op made a point to mention him as a bonus. I don't mind that as much as I do as presenting as without downsides when its more of a trade off. I do think Hubert is a bit underrated myself but I don't know where I would put him on a more general scale though.
As for Edelgard while I do think she is the best unit in the game I also think the lords in general are pretty close so the gap isn't big enough for me to make a huge deal out of it. You are still getting a top 5 unit in the game regardless of the route you pick.
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52 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:
shoulda mentioned earlier, Dedue and Gilbert are unusable outside of Blue Lions anyway, and Catherine, Cyril and Hilda are at their worst on Silver Snow. Also, Rescue got gutted in this game; I have a hard time finding a use for it when its range is Mag/4, which generally ain't enough to get the rescuee to safety.
I am aware but still in comparison to golden deer you are giving up a lot of other utility that you don't get back for Jeritza. Just because its two less than the blue lions doesn't mean that you still aren't giving up a lot for Jeritza. Hilda, Flayn, Catherine, Seteth and even Cyrill bring utility that Jeritza doesn't.
As for Rescue its got its uses when combined with other things especially on maddening. Things like comboing it with Enclouser to lock down a unit and than rescuing them out of danger. Or killing the single most threatening unit and backing off. Or against beast bosses using a weaker unit to break shields with a gambit and then rescuing them out of harms way of other threats.
52 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:The main thing about Dimitri that is considered broken is Battalion Vantage/Battalion Wrath. Which is gonna do jack shit in chapter 13 because he gets a new battalion with 120 endurance.
He still has some of the best base stats of units especially physical strength. That is the real reason the lords are held in high regard they have better stats than others. The other stuff is fancy and cool and all but having better numbers goes along way towards what makes Edelgad, Dimtri, Byleth and Claude the top units in the game. Don't get me wrong I do think Dimtri is the worst preforming lord but a bad preforming lord still is most certainly top 5 units in the game at worst.
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3 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:
Chapter 11 really shouldn't be a problem, though. Actually, relevant story: my wife did an Edelgard-and-Hubert only run of CF (Maddening, NG). Since Chapter 11's obviously a stall point for the run she just used all the previously-unused PCs at her disposal, including a variety of random recruits (Ashen Wolves + some random others, though notably no staff members since those all have a level requirement). Level 1 Enlightened One Byleth holds up better on that map than you might expect, since the enemies are weak and Sublime Heaven still hits hard even at class minimums. Edelgard herself is indeed a tough opponent, able to one-shot pretty much everyone, but this can be solved by throwing units at her and accepting their deaths (or playing on Casual Mode).
If you are prepared for it sure. But the preparation argument also makes reunion at dawn way way easier. So I think a lot of this comes down to how much knowledge people have going in. The bigger problem for Black eagles players that is discussed about that route is accidentally not getting cf in the first place or people wondering if they did the right things to go cf on more truer first time playthroughs. Also a lot of guides even if they don't outright spoil it probably subtly hint to not use Edelgard or Hubert too much a lot more than they go out of their way to recommend not to use Dimtri or Claude.
Speaking of Claude and Dimtri a broken one of them makes chapter 13 a ton easier especially Claude since he can fly. Most strats I see are ways to make the lord and Byleth win the map anyways. I get that its a hard map but by no means do I think its the only painful one. Chapter 1 the mock battle actually has my pick for most painful maddening battle if we are being honest especially if you want to not lose someone.
3 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:For the first part, I'd say that reality does not bear that out. People absolutely get softlocked by Reunion at Dawn. We had a thread about it here even, just a few weeks ago, if I recall correctly. It's not an ultra-rare occurrence. I have not personally heard about someone being softlocked on any given CF map, so I suspect it's a much rarer situation. Not saying that I can't see it, but yeah.
Well the far bigger complaint about black eagles is not getting cf in the first place. And going into the chapter you probably going to question if you did things right. By its vary nature people are going to look up guides on this event more than others. So a lot of black eagles players might not be as true blind as other route players to ensure they get route that they desire for black eagles. Which to fix means going back way more prepared than you were previously. And if your going back to fix the route choice you are also more likely to optimize other little things as well.
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3 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:
In the context of Maddening, there's a good chance it can lock you. That's a big deal.
I would argue that cf has just as much potential to lock you if not more. Time skip maps are a jump up in difficulty no matter what route you go and the one week you get to train on after chapter 13 is after the timeskip which is a problem if the issue is you can't beat timeskip enemies. Also chapter 11 has it own unique problem for CF and black eagles in general. If you put most of your efforts into Edelgard or Hubert than your team might not be able to handle her as a boss for that one chapter even if they don't count towards her boss stats for that chapter. All other routes you can use your lord for that chapter so you don't have to worry about having all your efforts pooled towards your best character as much.
3 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:Not being able to use some of those might be concerning, but Cyril is NOT one of those.
The point is more so about the combination more than anything because you lose out on all of these to get Jeritza. And even if you only care about one or two of these they can be worth more than Jeritza is or at the very least comparable to him. Obviously we can go back and forth on what units are better than others in 1 vs 1 situations but each one of the units not in cf has their uses and Jeritza can't make up for all of that alone he is still a single unit. Flayn for instance is one of a few rescue users for non-dlc runs with the only other user of it being Bernedetta who is more traditionally used as an archer or other more non-magical weaponry and you have to go more out of you way for getting rescue compared to the magically focused Flayn.
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People put Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to much stock into chapter 13 on non cf imo. Also people don't give enough credit for the fact that the timeskip on cf is has big jumps in enemy levels and abilties because of the shortness of the route requires the enemies to get harder faster. Chapter 13 also has less things in the middle of it and chapter 12 on cf compared to other routes. A whole one week of optional stuff to do on cf where as golden deer get a more normal month. Also that one week is after the time skip so the enemies are scaled for the timeskip so even if you do want to use that one week to train its worse if you are just plain not ready for the time skip as you are expected to train with time skip enemies. Compared to the training sessions that come before the timeskip in other routes which lets you go in better equipped.
The lords are good but are by no means auto wins. No one lord auto wins the game. As for Edelgard I do think she is the best lord but I also think people don't give non-mounted classes enough credit so I am not exactly agreeing with the only wyvern lord class being good for her. She still has the crest of flames for more tankiness and hits hard. She is the most verstile as well as she can go the magic route better than the other lords. Which is more relevant with dlc and dark flier allowing you to go flying mage edelgard with the option to use traditional weapons if you are deadset on using a flying being the best thing to do.
As for Jeritza he is good but you are giving up Seteth, Flayn, Catherine, Hilda, Dedue, Gilbert and Cyrill for him. And as I said above no one lord wins the game neither does Jeritza.
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On 3/2/2021 at 5:09 PM, Ice Dragon said:On 3/2/2021 at 4:47 PM, vikingsfan92 said:
concentrated among the 3 options in the legend pool than it is the normal pool.
And even though you got the pity bonus wrong and it's even higher than you said it was, you're still wrong.
8% divided 3 ways is 2.67%. 8.5% divided 3 ways is 2.83%. That's an increase of 1.0625×.
3% divided 1 way is 3%. 3.25% divided 1 way is 3.25%. That's an increase of 1.0833×.
You get a bigger increase to your pity rate from a normal banner than from a Legendary Hero banner.
And even if I let you compare to a non-Focus character, 3% divided 50 ways is 0.06%, and 3.25% divided 50 ways is 0.065%, which is still an increase of 1.0833×. Multiplication and division are wonderful like that.
And if you try to argue about the additive boost, that's ultimately meaningless because the difference it makes depends on the size of the original value. Being off by a meter is a huge deal when building a house, but being off by a meter is meaningless when planning a road trip.
Lets just say I think the additive bonus isn't as easily written off. I think I have made my larger points and have no problems just agreeing that we won't see fully eye to eye.
On 3/2/2021 at 5:25 PM, XRay said:I guess picking LOAK!Henriette for her Save skill makes some sense.
It is fully known. We even have a summoning simulator, so we know Mythics and Legendaries are more expensive.
For the current Mythic Focus, using the above simulator with a sample size of 5,000, if a player only wants merge Triandra to +10, players need to spend 1,850 Orbs on average.
For Princess of Bern Focus, also with a 5,000 sample size, if a player only wants to merge Dieck to +10, players need to spend 1,552 Orbs on average.
Mythics and Legendaries are about 20% more expensive ([1850-1552]/1552~19.2%) to merge up.
Look I know summoning simulators exist. I do think they are cool and novel . I do respect that they take a lot of effort and work to even make something close to the main thing. Maybe I am just the real hands on type or just cynical but I don't just trust them because they exist. I know I have for other game ran into sims that I think where I felt where more generous than the actual games.
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11 hours ago, XRay said:
Players who are after powerful characters do not want something that is just "good". They want something top tier. Most Special Heroes that are not Duos nor Harmonics are nowhere near top tier.
LOAK!Henriette is the prime example of being a decent unit that is nowhere near top tier. She may seem top tier because of her Save skill, but top tier units can make better use of that Save skill by being more difficult to kill. LOAK!Henriette has nowhere near the level of bulk that top tier tanks have, such as AOTB!Hector, FF!Idunn, and ANF!Edelgard.
Are you forgetting about fodder purposes for the units you mentioned? Anyways its not about being too attached to which particular seasonal its just imo seasonals> Legendaries in terms of what should get credit.
11 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:Remix banners appear to be running every other month instead of every month. There are currently 14 Legendary Heroes that do not have Pair Up as their Legendary effect, which is a pretty reasonable place to put the cut-off between Remix Heroes and the standard rotation. Even if they decide to never rerun units from this hypothetical Remix rotation until all other units have been run, at 4-5 Legendary Heroes per banner, that's still 6 months between reruns.
If refines/Resplendent are anything to by I don't think we can count on set orders or anything like that. While I broadly agree that they will take age into account I don't think IS will be straight forward with how they do it. I also don't think the other options have nearly as restricted rules as people want to say. I do think there is an argument that we need to wait and see on future remixes. I just don't think we can take a set view on them right now or that they aren't going to throw in surprises or a wrench in expectations given how they tend to like doing that with other stuff like resplendent, refines, divine codes ect.
11 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:12 hours ago, vikingsfan92 said:Btw I don't support just duo/harmonics for seasonal just any really good seasonal.
A non-seasonal Duo Hero exists, by the way.
I don't oppose people voting for said hero either. Strength is what matters most and I simply thing people are undervaluing the strengths of the non-legend/Mythics.
11 hours ago, XRay said:The math says Mythics and Legendaries are more expensive to snipe on average. That is indisputable.
For most players, if they can pick something for free, they will choose units that are more expensive. It makes no sense for them to pick something that costs less.
No what it actually says is up for debate as its not fully known. People are taking incomplete math as fact when its simply that incomplete math. What the actual completed math says isn't so clear cut. It is important to consider that pity rate ups exist and those actually tip the favor in legendarys. Going from 8% to 8. 25% divided 3 ways is more meaningful than going 3 to 3.25% divided alot more than three times because that growth is more concentrated among the 3 options in the legend pool than it is the normal pool.
As for how often it takes takes a rate up to get said unit needs a rate up in general is something that is growing beyond my scope and but I do think is important to keep in mind though because you are already beating the odds to get a 5 star without a pity rate up on both banner regardless. The general expectation from experience is you are probably going to need at least one rate up to get a 5 star in general. Where exactly the break even point is I am not sure but I do think it isn't accurately portrayed by just the initial rate stat alone. I don't claim to have all the answers here but I do know enough to say that we are only looking at pieces of the larger whole.
11 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:That doesn't change anything. You can plan to save for multiple characters just as easily as you can plan to save for one character.
You can save 500 orbs each starting in March for one character being run in May and another character being run in August just as easily as you can save 500 orbs each starting in March for two characters being run in August.
All you need to do is give yourself enough time to stock up that many orbs and have the restraint to not use them up on other banners.
Good budgeting lets you go a little pass the target number without issues to account for disaster scenarios. People aren't realistically going to ignore a 11% rate (aka they got super unlucky) after summoning hard for something if that is what happens at the end of 500. The problem with two targets simultaneously is your ability to flex is almost not existent. Not to mention more time in between may also give you a chance to up that budget altogether with just log in bonus orbs alone in not other factors. That alone dents your chance of hitting your targets if they are too near each other in terms of time.
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5 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:
If you really think that not knowing when a character will be rerun is so big of a deal to offset the lower chances to pull Legendary/Mythic Heroes, then what you should actually be angry about is that the characters that players are voting for are not exclusively Duo/Harmonic Heroes, which aren't on an announced rerun schedule and also aren't available from the standard summoning pool. Yet you're going on about standard pool characters as if they were harder to pull for than characters that are in neither the Legendary/Mythic rotation nor the standard summoning pool.
What it sounds like to me is that either there is a character you want that didn't get voted for or a character you don't want that did get voted for and you're trying to find some way to justify why they should or shouldn't have been voted for. In other words, you've already made your mind on the conclusion and are only searching for arguments that support your conclusion while ignoring or downplaying arguments that refute it.
I have made the point I am supporting seasonal as well as normal banner units. Btw I don't support just duo/harmonics for seasonal just any really good seasonal. Henriette, Gustav, insert good seasonal here, ect. It just gets lost in the other point because people are so focused on arguing against my opinion. I get it that my other point is not shared so its going to take up the bulk of peoples attention but I have made points supporting seasonal units in my arguments both here and when I brought it up before.
A rise of seasonal would be more than ok with me. Its really only my okayness with normal banner units that is causing the disagreements.
5 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:We have zero reason to believe that any of the recently released Legendary and Mythic Heroes will appear on Remix banners. In fact, we do have reason to believe that they won't appear on Remix banners.
Remix banners are clearly intended as a means to retire older Legendary Heroes from rotation on the Legendary/Mythic Hero banners. The most recent Remix banner featured characters released three years ago. Next year, we can at best expect Remix banners to include Legendary Heroes from 2019.
Staleness is a real thing they have to balance. Repeating the same units on the remix banners over and over again is going to kill interest in them for people. Look at how they have done the normal legendary banners they make a real effort to mix it up. Yes it is part of the point but interest in the banners still needs to generate interest or else they aren't worth doing and IS will look elsewhere. And its not just about the banner units but they have to give off color options for the banners themselves. That I think is going to get spiced up at least once or twice in the multiple they are doing in this year.
5 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:Thanks for explaining conditional probability to me as if I didn't know how it works, but that doesn't refute my point.
A 3% focus rate divided 3 or 4 ways is still higher than an 8% focus rate divided 12 ways.
On a 3-character normal banner, you have on average a 4% chance to pull the focus character you want when selecting the matching color.
On a 4-character normal banner, you have on average a 3% chance to pull the focus character you want when selecting the matching color.
On a Legendary/Mythic Heroes banner, you have a 2.7% chance to pull the focus character you want when selecting the matching color.
Thing is I don't even think that covers all the math involved on both banner types. There has to be some part of the equations that puts limits on who is in and who is out due to the exclusivity of options in the Legend banner and sorts through pity breakers on the normal ones. Just like there has to be some part of the summoning algorithm that excludes units based on color. What that exactly looks like I don't know and don't know if we have ways of knowing but it likely means that the 2.7% figure is an approximate base on part of the equation when the actual figure could vary depending on how they handle what choice of 5 star at the end. And how much IS actually is giving focus an advantage in the complex summoning math for both. I do think there is a possibility of an edge factor in both because the actual math used might be giving to low of numbers for rates and they actually have to put an a bit extra in to comply with gacha laws or compete with other gachas that get us to the 8% and 3% focus rates we know and love that makes summoning both types of a heroes a bit easier than the math implies.
5 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:There's nothing stopping you from picking an amount of orbs you want to save and then not spending those orbs until the character you want to pull for gets a rerun.
Additionally, as we've all been saying, CYL characters are guaranteed to get a rerun every August. You can always plan on saving orbs for August. If they get rerun sooner, you can spend your orbs sooner, but that still doesn't screw up plans to save for August because you can just pretend like the sooner banner doesn't exist and continue saving for August and still have exactly as many orbs as you expect to have in August when the August CYL rerun banner rolls around.
A character showing up sooner than a guaranteed rerun cannot possibly screw any plans up because of the latter example above, and a character showing up later than a predicted rerun also cannot possibly screw any plans up because of the former example above.
As I keep getting ignored on this comes back to timing alot. Sure it happens on August but guess what also happens in August regular cyl and reruns of the other cyls. Its not like players have just one interested character. I don't think its particularly sound advice to say wait until the one of the most summoned banners of the year if not the most summoned banner and use orbs on something else if there is something you have interest in. People can have multiple interests and Cyl is something the entire community looks forward to. Look I get that if the focusing on a hero you have to make sacrifices but I think we can at agree that this one is has some timing problems.
5 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:A character showing up sooner than a guaranteed rerun cannot possibly screw any plans up because of the latter example above, and a character showing up later than a predicted rerun also cannot possibly screw any plans up because of the former example above.
Yes it can absolutely can because if you look at most people who do save they usually have more than one time they are saving up for. Savers don't usually just plan for one thing they plan for multiple banners in advanced. Look at reactions to new banners a common comment is "why did this character come out this month I was budgeting for month x instead" because they have multiple characters they want and multiple save projects. Maybe you still can have no problems with your first project but it can impact your others and have a ripple effect on your budget.
5 hours ago, XRay said:Aether Raids defense means squat for the vast majority of players. If you are playing Aether Raids just to have decent rewards and you do not care about ranking, then it makes absolutely no sense to devote a lot of resources to defense. A player's offensive performance is far more important than their defensive performance in determining which Tier they will end up in. A free player can bounce in and out of Vault of Heaven without much difficulty, since it is absolutely trivial to get into Tier 27 with a little investment. And if a player does not care about Vault of Heaven at all and just wants to put in the minimal effort required, maintaining Tier 21 involves expending a peanut amount of effort.
You can use whatever Legendary Hero you want in the extra slot. There is absolutely no score penalty to using one out-of-season Legendary Hero in Aether Raids. This applies to both offense and defense. You just need someone like Reginn and Seiros to open up that extra slot, and Reginn is already free.
Your wrong slightly about the extra slot Legendary heroes in the extra slot is dependent on season if it works. The extra slot currently requires Reginn or Serios and must be either anima/Astra blessed depending on which mythic you are running or the in season legendary. You can't use a wind legend in the extra slot outside of wind season. You could put a Astra/Anima unit in that slot but not wind.
And even if you aren't trying to get vault to heavens a slight improvement to defense still can be a tiers worth of rewards. So having the option to be run consistently defensively can make a difference to how much you get per year even if it is small.
5 hours ago, XRay said:Missing is a lot more common on Legendary and Mythic Foci compared to other Foci. The misses may be better, but it is not good enough to offset the higher cost of sniping the unit you want.
I will just repeat what I said above the math isn't so simple.
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4 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:
No, a normal banner starts off with a 3% focus rate. Prior to the pseudo-demote system being implemented, the 5-star rate was 6%. Currently, the 5-star rate is 9%.
Regardless, a 3% focus rate divided 3 or 4 ways is still higher than an 8% focus rate divided 12 ways.
The point of this a hero rises is to focus in particular units to be made free. The math of the other color orbs doesn't exactly matter once you lock in your colored orb. You have a zero percent chance of pulling a red unit on a green, colorless, or blue orb. So the focus rate of pulling say normal Lysethia on any banner don't exactly matter for your result on a blue orb because its simply not going to happen outside of a major major summoning glitch. All green, Red or blue units go down to zero the second a colorless orb is picked. 8% divided by three is 2.66 repeating percent to get a given legend on the right orb. Yes that is 0.34% less than 3 but that isn't exactly the full story as you can only get one of three possible options for a 5 star of a given color per legend banner. So if the game decides you are getting a 5 star there is less options for the game to roll through than normal banners which have ~26 other options (the Sue banner for instance has that number of greens I counted). The math has to be adjusted somehow due to the limitedness and it clearly is more generous towards the banner with less choices in getting a particular unit. Adjusting for that I am not exactly sure on but I am willing to bet it makes up up for a large portion if not makes it in favor of the legend banners.
I also want to reemphasize the structuring and planning around when the heroes returning being a thing. Pick a legend that exists and there is a convenient chart telling you how long you have to save. Compare that to say even the brave heroes and its who knows when gamble. Brave Dimtri has not had a focus banner with him on it since cyl. Lysethia just got hers as the voting gauntlet is up. So even the most popular common pool units can appear like once or twice a year on focus. Where as Legendary units like even the newest one Claude can have more time a year appearances. We already know he is back in May and he could easily be back in say November or December. Leif who is on the banner with Claude right now is back in June and again could easily make a reappearance in the second half of the year in the november/December timeframe. The fact we know this now and not later is a big edge for savers for a particular cause budget at the exact right time.
5 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:Finally, Legendary/Mythic Hero banners don't have sparks, whereas New Heroes banners do. Additionally, CYL banners not only give you a free unit off the bat, but also give you 3 chances to spark to obtain the other 3 units.
Again this point is less relevant for next year with the remix banners. I think people are being a little silly if they don't think they won't spice up banners with some of the more current legends. They won't be as current as the year passes. I am not just making this about this year in mind which yes I am extremely frustrated with but I would like people to be more open in the future. Because the same thing happening next year is just going to repeat the negatives of this year.
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25 minutes ago, Othin said:
8% is better than the usual total of 6%, but if a normal banner has color sharing, sniping the shared color can give you a rate of 9% or higher.
Regardless of all that, a higher total rate isn't worth much if it's only high because of including units you don't care about. If a legendary banner has the unit you want sharing a color with two units you already have, your rate of getting a new 5* is much lower than on a normal banner.
First of 6%? The standard normal banner starts off with 3% 5 star rate. Only special banners like double specials have 6 % sure but you get on them once and not again in favor of the years newer heroes. Even revival banners start off 4% 5 star rates. And even if you do pull a 5 star there are more options to give you what you don't want than what you do.
Look both have issues but I think people have a bit of the blinders on when it comes to legendary/Mythic banners. You still have to defy the odds that are against you in the first place to get the unit that you want and 8% is a better shot. Not to mention that you are restarting at this higher point if you do miss which most of your summons are going to be anyways.
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5 hours ago, XRay said:
Missing is a lot more common on Legendary and Mythic Foci compared to other Foci. The misses may be better, but it is not good enough to offset the higher cost of sniping the unit you want.
For example, when I am sniping for Triandra, I got five Triandrias, but I also got pity broken by Hel at least five times and once by Freyja. If I was a Freyja fan and actually wanted Freyja, I would be pretty pissed. Hel having Distant Counter is nice, but once you hit a certain point in the game, you have already accumulated good stockpile of Distant Counter fodder and/or have a lot of Distant Counter units, and you simply do not need more of it. Additionally, Distant Counter is also in the 4* pool now, so Hel is even more worthless as fodder. Guard Bearing is an extremely niche skill, and it is pretty much crap for most players. Freyja also is not great as a Mythic unit since she is a combat unit and combat units cannot get stat boosts.
You are leaving out that you have a higher rate to get a 5 star in general on the banner than you do on a normal one. Its much much easier to go deeper on a normal unit and not even walk away with a wrong 5 star unit only 3-4 stars.
5 hours ago, XRay said:Legendaries might not have worked well in Aether Raids, but that is no longer the case as Legendaries can be used in the extra slot without having an impact on your score. Not every player cares about scoring optimally anyways, and for those that do not, there is nothing wrong with running Legendaries as key components in your Aether Raids teams. When I first started Aether Raids, my player phase team utilized no Mythics at all, so running one or more Legendary Hero on that team is not going to impact my ranking very much at the end of the day.
Aether raids defense says hi. It doesn't take much commitment or knowledge to know that running a unit without the right blessing gives worse results. And Legendary units are not only less consistent but mean you have to change whole teams out entirely. AR defense is infinitely more emphasized as a mode than arena defense is. So it hurts more if you are out of season and legends are simply out of season more. Its easier to even stay slightly optimal with normal units and you can actually do something other than wait until a given day.
I will say mythics do have it slightly better in arena but still want to point out that they spend weeks without use just like legendaries in AR. A seasonal or normal unit can be more flexible and not have to wait as long.
6 hours ago, XRay said:Common units are easier to obtain, and the latest ones can even be guaranteed summoned.
Again 5 stars in general have issues obtaining in the first place. You can spend alot more trying to get a 5* in the first place and hope its the right one on a normal banner. People are undervaluing the 8% starting 5 star rate and how painful building rate on normal banners can be.
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1 hour ago, Xenomata said:
I have to assume you are not happy because Edelgard, a unit who cannot be planned for because of her permanent pool placement, did not make it. She at least can be randomly summoned as a pity breaker and have banners that focus on a skill she has (Noontime, Distant Foil, Joint Drive Res), and in fact Edelgard herself can be planned for because they always rerun the Brave Hero banners every year. Meanwhile all 4 of the winners here can never be summoned randomly, and there are some out there who don't actually like summoning from Legendary/Mythic banners because of the chance to summon everyone except the unit you are actually targeting, since each color focuses 3 units at a time. I also agree to this, as my +10 Leanne and Winter Eirika can attest to.
Edelgard is not my only frustration though or even my biggest. It goes well beyond who goes who made into top 8 in the first place heck even beyond that possibly beyond the top 20. So many mythics and Legendaries dominate the rankings. I am not just arguing that normal banner units are being undervalued but seasonal as well who are useful casually and in modes of your choosing. Also pity brakers are an argument that doesn't work in practice because its such a crap shoot and you can go years without summoning a common unit. There are streamers with white whale units in the common pool.
Also don't think people give legendary banners enough credit. Sure misses happen but the misses on the legend mythc banners are purposely selected to be better than misses on normal banners. Sure they range in quality individually but still usually the best units on a given other banner tend to make it on to them.
1 hour ago, Xenomata said:As the Remix banners are, I very highly doubt they will ever put such a recent Legendary hero into one. The focus of those banners is on making the earliest Legendary heroes accessible without intruding on modern Legendary/Mythic banners and making a color "worse" just because Fjorm or LegHector aren't really all that desired as a hero (before Fjorm got updated at least, not sure about now). So actually yes it is completely unreasonable to expect Legendary Dimitri to appear in a Legendary Remix banner.
Recency is a relative term that constantly changes and as they can't repeat things ad nausem without running into problems. Recency now is not the same as recency in say June, July ect. Even if they put out a remix banner every 2 months that still is 6 banners a year extra for Legends. Yes I do think it will take some time for the newer legends to pop up. But it only takes one appearance on a remix banner to already appear more than a seasonal or even some normal banner in a year. Especially compared a seasonal unit who is going on a year old where they aren't going to be on double special heroes banners in favor of the new seasonal of that year. Heck even a normal pool unit can be in focus just as much as a legendary per year. The common pool is massive so the amount of units they have to rotate out of rotation also gets bigger and bigger.
1 hour ago, Xenomata said:Saying not everyone likes something is a very poor reason not to make a certain decision. That's true of everything in life, let alone this game, and especially of what can be considered the two most important modes of the game (they both gives very valuable resources, you kinda have to care about them to some extent)
Thing is that seasonal and common banner units are often just as good if not better in the given modes while being usable in All of them. So if I wanted to do the bare minimum amount of effort I can make them work more consistently due to being able to change more things about them. Legendary units don't work often in AR as they need to be in the right week to get the most out of them. Same is true with Mythics in Arena. Both legendaries and mythics can feel like shelve until the actual date changes units. Take Legendary chrom for an example outside of the top 8. He is a real good unit but would still sit on the bench more than say brave dimtri or Brave Claude. Simply because you can change which mode they are focused on simper.
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I honestly think mythic and legends are so overrated on being on this banner in the first place and the banner is worsened because of it. Its frustrating to me that argument is being pushed over others. First off not everyone cares about arena or AR. Second the set schedule nature of legends and mythics make it not only easier to plan for their return but they are going to show up more than once a year like seasonals. Sure double special heroes are a thing but that is a one time reoccurance and we can see just as many reappearances of a mythic or legendary if not more. Not to mention there is a chance that they are thrown in on remix banners as enticement for the main remix unit. Its not entirely unreasonable for Dimtri to appear as a side unit to Luciana' or Ephraims remix banner for an example.
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3 hours ago, RainbowMoon said:
Agreed. Silver Snow simply serves no purpose whatsoever in the final game other than filler. It reads like a first draft, it plays like a first draft and aside from A Funeral of Flowers, it brings absolutely nothing of value to 3H's characters and story. The route was a complete waste of the devs' time, money and resources, which could've gone towards making Verdant Wind a much stronger narrative with its own unique identity, just like Crimson Flower and Azure Moon. But because of Silver Snow, this is the half-assed Golden Deer route we got.
Claude deserved better.
Tbh I think they could have made every single route better without SS existing not just VW purely off saved time.
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Re Working Three House's story
in Fire Emblem: Three Houses
Posted · Edited by vikingsfan92
I wouldn't be so sure it wasn't more widespread when we have such a limited view on Fodland and TWISTD. Heck I wouldn't be surprised if people outside of TWISD are doing some experimenting given how desperate people are for crest. Haneman's backstory for instance involves his sister being mistreated because of the fact she has crest and wasn't producing offspring with crests and that was when Edelgard and the rest of the students were babies. If people were that desperate for crests back then you better believe some of the more evil people were willing to do even more to get crest bearing children even if they never met with Thales and co.
Going back to Lysethia and her being experimented on we don't even know how many people where experimented on before they started on her. We just know she is one of the successful ones but we have no info on how many people were before her or after. Just because they succeed with her doesn't mean they stopped testing to ensure that the method wasn't a one time success or a success unique to Lysethia.