Silver-Haired Maiden
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Posts posted by Silver-Haired Maiden
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So I realized that I haven't actually introduced myself yet....
Hello everyone! You can call me whatever you like but people usually call me Ash. It's nice to meet all of you!
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In a word: yes.
In multiple: it has its issues but it's definitely worth the experience because of how ambitious and huge the overall story is. It's truly a great game.
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1 hour ago, omegaxis1 said:
Of course you love her. Your name is Silver-Haired Maiden and you have Micaiah's pic as the avatar. XD But god I hope not. I doubt they'll do that though. See, Micaiah already has her personality, whereas Corrin... well, being a brand new character, they just tossed in things and tried to ride too hard on Awakening's popularity. I get that the no shoes thing was for the sense of draconic feel or some animalistic thing, but Tiki is a dragon, and there are dragon laguz, and they all wear shoes too, so yeah. ANd they do wear pants. F!Corrin just likes to show off her thighs like all girls in Fates do.
Yeah. I get that she was desperate, but for Micaiah, her development was way too small. Part 1 had an establishment of her character and such, but we didn't see her until mid Part 3 I think, and thus her development went from steadily climbing to spiraling out of control and heading downhill fast. Because we didn't have enough time to spend with her, her actions led to many disliking her. And like you said, facing against the morally right paragon that is Ike was the bigger issue. It'd be like if Corrin was on the opposing side of Marth. People love Marth, and he's a great guy. People hate Corrin enough, and him going against Marth is just horrible.
Yeah, it's precisely because we get another game with Elincia to see her struggles that we can understand how much she loves her nation, and how much she also loves her friends and comrades. So if she's to go against them, it's hard and we would feel bad for her. That's what I mean by development. Because her's is more solidified, it draws on more love from players, and that in turn makes them want to defend her more fiercely than people would for Micaiah.
Well I was referring to F!Corrin specifically as I like her overall design better, but it would probably be awkward for M!Corrin to be running around without pants on xD
I really hope it's like you say where they keep her personality and don't... well, get rid of it. But yes, I do like Micaiah and I don't think anyone can fault her design, she's really pretty lol.
Most of Micaiah's issues could have been fixed by actually making her the main character of the game. Giving her the focus means giving her the spotlight, which means people get to learn more about her and come to sympathize with her. But why make a Tellius game and not make Ike the hero? So yeah, big issue there. Honestly I feel like the DB and the whole mess in Daein could have been far more interesting than the other parts if it had been given the attention it deserved.... Micaiah included. As for Elincia she could have benefitted from more actual time in RD too, but because of her loved status from PoR... well Ike and Yune are considered spotlight stealers for a reason.
1 hour ago, Icelerate said:I see what you mean with Elincia but she hasn't developed all that well in PoR. Certainly not more than part one Micaiah. Speaking of the Corrin design, how come when Nephenee does it it is okay?
Nephenee wears a skirt and shoes (boots to be accurate). I mean it's not a full length skirt or anything, but it's not her underwear either.
49 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:Actually she does. If you look purely from Radiant Dawn, it's pretty impressive already, but its the knowledge of her development in Path of Radiance that truly makes her shine. She might not have been the main lord, and we saw more of Ike, but we know what she was going through and how rough she has it, losing her family, kingdom, and now trying to gain it all back. This is one of the reasons why Elincia would have been a great lord of the game had she gotten the chance.
...... I really need to play PoR....
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Hmm... I can't say about the other games as I haven't had the opportunity to play them, but I know I would love to see remakes and would immediately snatch them up!
As for 10 it doesn't need new characters as much as it needs to actually work on the ones it does have.
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1 hour ago, omegaxis1 said:
LOL XD Well, its because we can all see the lost potential of Micaiah. She was done really poorly and we want to believe she'll do better if she gets the chance to have a remake.
Her horrible tactics are looked down because two things:
1) Drugging and attacking supply units is one thing, dowsing enemies in oil and lighting them on fire is... well, pretty graphic. It is a legit tactic and Robin also employed a similar tactic to defeat the larger enemies, but still, players really don't want to truly think deeply on the concept of enemies being immolated.
2) Said enemies that are about to immolated is none other than characters we know and/or like. We don't really criticize Robin's tactic or blowing enemy ships up like he did because we didn't know the Valmese that much. And those guys were in the wrong. However, Elincia and her group were in the right, so Micaiah aiming her attacks on them... well, it just kind of makes it hard for the viewer to like Micaiah when she's about to burn other charatcers to death the way she was about to. We wouldn't really care if she was gonna do this to Izuka or Lekain, and we'd actually cheer for that, cause those two deserve to die horrible deaths. But Sanaki and the others... well... yeah no.
But you know, it would have been something else if Elincia was in Micaiah's shoes. Fight against the laguz alliance and Ike or have her country die a slow, unavoidable death. We would have felt so much more sympathy if that were the case.
That's really what I hope too. I love her for both what she is and also what she has the potential to be. Of course a remake also makes me worried that they'll turn her into another Corrin... (Honestly though I love female Corrin's design, she just needs to wear pants and shoes xD)
Your points are both valid and that really hurt Micaiah in more ways than one. The tactic is valid but it's a rated T game and likely shocked people back when it was released. Also since she was against the moral paragon of Ike and all it cast her in an even worse light without the benefit of truly understanding her desperation. Because that tactic wasn't like Micaiah, it was an act of pure desperation.
The whole point of her actions was to show that she was getting desperate and to show a different side to the player. I get what IS was trying to do with that scene, I love the oil scene, but you're right about it being hard for the player to watch since most people like these characters (though I'm rather indifferent on Sanaki in RD). Your whole thing on Elincia is very true. If it were Elincia in the same situation I feel people would show her far more sympathy but we also had another whole game to follow her and get to know and love her so...
3 minutes ago, Icelerate said:Why would we feel more sympathy for Elincia compared to Micaiah if they are put in the same situation?
Also, I remember in part one, Tauroneo actually agrees with Izuka for once and not Micaiah. Can anyone remember what I'm talking about because the script seems to be missing details? I think it is about the Shifu swamp rescue operation.
He agrees with Izuka that it's likely a trap and a really bad idea for Micaiah to go. Micaiah and Sothe agree but don't see where they have another choice if so many people are actually going to die so they enlist Tormod and Nailah for help which basically ensured their win (of course Izuka and Tauroneo didn't realize that).
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12 hours ago, Mister IceTeaPeach said:
Since I see several character threads in this section around I'm asking why not making a general FE10 character discussion thread where you update this thread with a new character after a few days? It would save a lot of new threads and makes the overview for the visitors easier. It's what I did with in the the DB members.
There are a few reasons:
First, I didn't intend to do these until I started Soren and it got a great response.
Second, I don't want to do them all in one big thread because it limits interaction and discussion people can have about the characters they like/dislike. Doing it in separate threads allows people to really discuss as much as they want about any one character and not have to worry about the discussion moving on to the next and feeling like their conversation was shut down.
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Oh gosh I went to bed and it blew up xD
I'm glad people seem to have so much to say about Micaiah!
Someone did make the comment that I don't like Soren and that's true, I won't try to hide that, but they made a good point about the hypocrisy of his methods being fine as opposed to Micaiah's. It seems to me like the male characters get passes on their actions far easier than the females do (again, Alm and Celica, Erika and Ephraim, etc) and... Ike is a paragon. He's morally 'good' and despite being blunt people are drawn to him. In RD he's meant to be a catalyst for other character's development more than his own. Which would be great if he had..... any development at all.
Here's the thing, Micaiah's also a paragon. However, she isn't as focused on and so it's easier to fault her for her paragon-ness and also because she makes bad decisions that leads people to follow her because... paragon. Honestly I like those characters and it's interesting to see a paragon type character go down the wrong path and lead others into following them down it - intentional or not, hands tied or not - because it really is an opportunity to explore not only the paragon themselves, but also those who put so much trust in them. Micaiah could have been so much better if they had focused on her story because she's the type of person that others want to follow but because of circumstances out of her control she leads those people following her down the wrong path. A path that she knows is wrong and she says as much many times, but she doesn't feel she has a choice. Ike may be a paragon but that was explored in depth in PoR, it would have been far more beneficial for him to take a back seat in this one - while still being Ike and present of course - and letting the game and story explore Micaiah's journey.
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3 hours ago, blah the Prussian said:
Well, I do fundamentally oppose the Blood Pact, because I find it to be pretty ridiculous; if this kind of power exists, all it would take is one gullible monarch and one good con man. I'm open to altering the idea of a revanchist movement in Daein, though, and making it simply Begnion influence over Daein, although I do think that there should be some support for it. More generally, though, I would want to explore the idea of Micaiah having to work with evil people to achieve her goals, because that's what all guerrilla movements end up being; for every Free Syrian Army you have an ISIS. I also don't see how having Daein kill Soren is demonizing them; he's an enemy combatant,
Well the blood pact wasn't well developed. At all. Personally I think that could be explained as easily as only one or two people know how to construct the magic that makes the blood pact work. Besides that, Micaiah having to work with evil people to achieve her goals just doesn't seem to be in her character. If she knows someone is evil then she'd need some real motivation to work with them because she is, at her heart, a good person that dislikes war. And it would demonize them because Soren is everyone's baby (except mine for some reason).
6 minutes ago, Kalken said:The Blood Pact is there to force Ike and Micaiah's armies to fight without either side being the villain. Since Ike and Micaiah fighting ultimately wasn't really relevant (nobody from either party died besides Pelleas unless you play again, their fighting and Micaiah's atrocities being brushed off with "WE GOT TO FIGHT TOGETHER"), I recommend scrapping them going to war and just have Daein invade Begnion while its busy against the Laguz.
This could work but again you have the issue of Daein rebuilding after so long under subjugation. They'd still be building their military strength, rebuilding cities, etc. They wouldn't really have the resources to go to war. Ergo, blood pact, though it was handled awfully.
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3 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:
Yeah. There are several female characters that are popular and AREN'T faservice.
True. However, here's something that would throw a bombshell on the Senate. If the curse can only affect those that are native to that country (they really didn't define just how the curse would kill people of the country, whether its from birth or some other things, but birth could work), then they cannot kill Micaiah with it, because she can reveal that she ISN'T native to Daein. It might be her home now and she is proud to call it her country, but she isn't born from Daein, and thus it means the contract would not affect her. If that's the case, that can frighten the Senate, as she is a wild card that they cannot control and thus they would have to try and negotiate her cooperation. And yeah, maybe she cannot feign calmness from this, but she has to be strong still because she knows that people like the Senate wants to grab hold of any kind of leverage to hold power over them. She's been alive long enough to know how that works, and thus the key would be that she shows no weakness, and doesn't stop with the demands. Maybe she even demands the contract in exchange for their services.
I'm not saying that Ike would swoop in and save her, but by actively trying to get help, it shows how Micaiah is understand that this is a desperate time and she can't save the nation by herself, and personal grudge against Ike is not going to save Daein right now. If Ike learns of the Blood Contract, then the laguz, with all their knowledge, might be able to figure out a way to help. Furthermore, we also know that the Black Knight was ordered by Sephiran to protect Micaiah. If Micaiah can meet with the Black Knight midway, she can get him to help, and unlike everyone else, he actually has the easiest access to saving them, being Zelgius.
That whole only effecting Daein natives could work... but they really didn't explain any parameters or anything and the blood pact needs to be fleshed out more - for example the magic should be something known to only two or three people - but you're right that it's a definite possibility. Micaiah joining forces with Ike and the LA could be something that would make them wary.. but I'm still not sure if it would be enough for them to bend to her demands. She could try but I don't know if it would work. The Senate is powerful and it's highly doubtful they would fear one girl, even if she is the true Apostle which they probably wouldn't know.
Now getting help from Zelgius is something I entertained for quite a while. However, Sephiran intended for the medallion to break and for that Daein had to be in the war so I don't know that Zelgius would actually help. Personally I'd like to see some more conversations between Micaiah and the BK/Zelgius but in the end his loyalty is to Sephiran. Also her personal grudge against Ike does lessen through her encounters with him, she says as much when she faces him in that hold the fort mission. I actually really like that.
However I do agree that no matter what they do it would be nice for them to show the action from Micaiah's point of view so as to keep from demonizing her against the moral paragon that is Ike.
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9 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:
It's something that's always had the issue with. Hell, the sexism is actually even in Awakening and Fates. Awakening. Oh hey, fF!Robin is capable of being the hero... too bad she's ALSO the final villain that ruins the world. Fire Emblem Fates has F!Corrin portrayed in the Conquest route artwork. And guess what? Conquest is the morally wrong route. We'll have to see what the Switch will be like, but I have doubts that female will be the main hero without doing SOMETHING to screw themselves over.
I don't doubt that it would have to be something huge to get Micaiah against the heroes. And like I said in the Support ones, even if Tibarn knew that Naesala had no choice but to betray them to protect his nation, Tibarn wouldn't forgive the raven at all, but just would be slightly more sympathetic. So regardless of being forced, Micaiah absolutely HAS to look bad because she has to fight for the wrong side. But I would prefer if she did show more effort in trying to resist Begnion. Here's something I would prefer: Micaiah knowing about the Blood Contract, but wants to meet with the Senate and feign ignorance. She can make some demands from the Senate in exchange for their services in assisting the war, and threatens to leave Daein and instead help the Laguz Alliance if the negotiations aren't met.
Begnion could reveal to her the Contract and how they can kill all the citizens of Daein, but Micaiah could also threaten them in return. Like she could steel her heart and not give way, and say that she doesn't care if they destroy Daein, but warns that if they do destroy Daein, she will ensure that they die the cruelest deaths and will make sure they suffer. By not budging an inch to their threats, making threats of her own. The Senate doesn't care for Daein, but they do care for themselves, and know the exploits of Micaiah, so if they lose her and she helps the Laguz Alliance, they'll be in danger. This could show that she has some control over them, and then fights for Begnion, but at the same time, begins to use more skilled tactics to try and warn Ike and the others of the danger Daein is in.
They say that they'd be caught, but would they? If Micaiah leaves cryptic messages, maybe even leave them under veiled threats, along with Sothe, then Ike and the others would HAVE to notice something is wrong. Like Ike knows how Sothe is when he knew the guy as a kid, but then suddenly Sothe begins to say something like "sub-humans" or how he hates Ike and such. Some of these things would go over the Senate's heads, but for Ike and the others that forged a bond with Sothe, they KNOW that Sothe would never be like that, and want to learn more. Then Micaiah also plants some other things like make the be aware of the contract's existence and what it does. Maybe even have someone in Micaiah's ranks purposely betray them to join the Laguz Alliance, but have them carry something that contains information about the curse.
Ahhhhh sexism.... they really need to work on their female leads. Seriously. Just.... please IS, you have a pretty large female fanbase! Stop doing your female characters so much injustice!
Now this idea I like. It would show Micaiah taking on her leadership role in a way that she isn't able to in the game. I don't think she would be able to steel her heart enough to say that she doesn't care about Daein being destroyed and again there's the whole issue of them doing it anyway because they believe Micaiah has a good chance of dying before she could ever make their lives bad enough, but it's a really cool thought. If it worked out well enough it could help but I really don't want to see Ike come swooping in and saving her. Micaiah's perfectly capable of saving herself, even if Sothe doesn't want to believe it, and she should be given that chance. Not saying that she wouldn't need help but Ike shouldn't just resolve everything which, lets face it, is what would end up happening if he found out.
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8 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:
Precisely. She had to go against IKE. The one that is known as the hero of the Tellius series, and Ike gets center stage in part 4, being the one to strike Ashera down. He remains as the undisputed hero and thus Micaiah going against him only serves to say that she's the bad person. It's like how Eirika gets shit on for giving the Sacred Stone to the demon king because the demon king was possessing her dear friend, which in turn lets Ephraim get away with lot of Gary Stu acts because he's the badass that tries to stop the villain.
I get her crisis, and it is very realistic. But had there been a chance to remake RD, I would prefer if the blood contract could be removed and there be another reason she's forced to fight. Or hell, if it is still for the contract, then maybe Micaiah also tries to form a secret alliance. Instead of being completely against Ike's forces, she tries to drop hints to them that she can't avoid fighting them, but they try to figure out how to avoid this issue. And if the contract only works around the grounds of being in Daein, then maybe she makes a plan to have every citizen of Daein evacuate, thus allowing her to slowly lessen the damages the contract can do till it gets to the point that she can stop fighting for Begnion.
That exactly. Lets be real, going against the main male lord in these games is sorta like going against the Pope, it's just not a good thing for any character you're trying to paint in a sympathetic light. Honestly IS has an issue with female characters in their games, especially if they even start to take on a main role. Something always has to happen so that the male lord takes the spotlight and that's very sad to me! Ike had his game and there's nothing wrong with letting the female characters shine sometimes.
I get where you're coming from but I really think it would take something along the lines of the blood pact to get Daein to enter the war in the first place and that's why they used it. Of course the game does somewhat touch on why they don't have any other options. It's mentioned that they can't go to Ike for help because the Senate could find out and when Sothe mentions taking Micaiah and just straight up leaving it's brought up that the pact would likely kill them anyway. Which is why Sothe doesn't take Micaiah and go. To be fair it needed to be handled far better than it was but that's really not an issue with Micaiah herself, it's an issue with rushed writing and a forced plot to make Micaiah and Ike fight.
5 minutes ago, ping said:My issue is that Micaiah doesn't know about the blood pact initially. Her reason to follow Pelleas' orders are basically that she "knows" that he means well for Daein and that she owes him loyalty, which I find doubly frustrating since Sothe even points out the stupidity of fighting for Begnion and against Gallia. By the looks of it, Micaiah doesn't even question Pelleas about his order - I believe the game cuts away after Pelleas' big reveal ("Your targets are... Gallia's sub-humans") and turns back to Miccy when Sothe tells her that this is fucking stupid. Given how Micaiah was portrayed in part 1 (i.e. headstrong), this is her acting wildly OOC for the sake of the plot, or even just for the sake of Drama because the writers didn't want to reveal the blood contract yet.
Now this I get having an issue with and I definitely agree. It would probably be better if the game showed Pelleas in a different light, because she is a general and beneath Pelleas she does have to follow his orders, but it should show her bucking him. She's a branded and doesn't have any issue with the laguz so just going in to fight them? She should have an issue with that and she's never had an issue speaking her mind to Pelleas before. It does cut away after Pelleas's big reveal as a way to move the plot forward but moving the plot forward doesn't work if there's no exposition. But again, this is more an issue with the writers wanting a sense of drama and using Micaiah to do it. This could really be easily fixed by showing more conversations which is something the game suffers from anyway.
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1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:
I'll be honest, the issue with Micaiah being forced to fight for Begnion is just handled too poorly. The entire case here is because of the Blood Contract, a plot device that has no explanation on how it works and when it was created. I get why Micaiah had to fight for Bengion, and ultimately it was to bring in the entire continent to the war. Because the biggest factor that was needed is the dragons to also be involved to further spread the chaos, and Kurthnaga being the Prince of the Dragons makes him a large factor. And also to bring in the other laguz like the wolf as well. Ultimately, its a state of chaos where all sides needed to be participating.
But by bringing Micaiah here, she becomes the bad guy, and she gets blamed for a lot of the issues. The fact that she has to resort to using downright cruel tactics to win just paints her in a worse picture. This is one of the reasons why she's so disliked.
Oh that's definitely true and I personally feel that it's not a very good criticism of her. Micaiah handles the whole situation - as badly executed as it is - in a very realistic way. She's been forced against the literal hero of Tellius and the Apostle, not to mention a couple of the Laguz rulers and because of that she's painted as a villain, but in all honesty who would really handle it differently? Fight or watch the blood pact destroy her people. Those were her only options and she hated the choices she had to make, said as much in her conversations, but by putting the focus on Ike and putting her against him, it painted her in a villainous light instead of a more sympathetic and desperate one.
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A big difference too is that Micaiah is in a really bad situation that Ike and Tibarn aren't in. They have the option to show more empathy, to be gentler (although one can argue Tibarn's methods with threatening to kill Sothe were just as bad as Micaiah's which is something people don't usually mention because he's Tibarn), whereas Micaiah has the destruction of her whole country to worry about and the knowledge that if it even appears that she's disobeying the Senate that's the end. The Senate doesn't care about Daein. Daein is just a nuisance to them that can be exploited.
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While I do like your changes to Jarrod, I must say I really disagree about the whole line with Daein being the bad guys once again. They were the bad guys in PoR, and making them the bad guys two games in a row? I don't like that. Part of what I liked about RD was how it showed that you have good and bad in every country, making Daein the big bads again just undermines that whole premise. Sure the Daein people are racist and they don't mind joining the war against the laguz but the simple fact remains that Daein was still rebuilding from years of their country being reduced to ruin - stated in RD. They shouldn't be getting involved in a war to begin with and one guy couldn't change that without some major power over the leaders of the country. There's too many people in high positions to challenge that - Micaiah, Sothe, Tauroneo. Even Almedha for as much as I don't like her, and Pelleas who didn't want to get involved in another war either! With as weak willed as he is he stood up to a Begnion Senator until he literally had no other options and that's really what it would take and why the blood pact was a thing to begin with. It wasn't handled well but in my reading it seems people have less of a problem with the blood pact itself and more of an issue with how it was handled.
(Also I'd like to point out that Zelgius isn't wearing the Black Knight's armor in that part of the game and even if he was its stated that particular blessing is no longer on the armor, allowing him to be killed by weapons other than Ragnell)
Also genuine clap for you killing off Soren. Seriously, I've stated before that I think the game would be better without him in it. I still don't think Micaiah and Daein should be demonized in yet another game to accomplish that though.
Now your idea surrounding Yune and Ashera is interesting, but Micaiah is not a goddess and your changes there make her read like a goddess. If people had an issue with her powers before that would just take it to another level. Those two work better as individual goddesses and Yune taking over Micaiah in the first place is generally considered a bad move by everyone who has played the game. I do think it would be cool to explore that they're really just order and chaos and neither of them is good or inherently evil, which is touched on but never really explored, and Sephiran... I don't know, I like that he's redeemable. Perhaps a bit too late, but he can still be convinced to change his mind. But again, more exploration of the two goddesses would be nice. They could even be compared to sides of Micaiah's personality but not be actual sides to her personality.
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So... I'm just gonna say to go check out Overly Sarcastic Productions on Youtube and their trope talks because she explains it far better than I do and in more detail. But!
Character growth: Your character can be the worst person imaginable at the beginning but as long as there's reasonable growth, a subverting of expectations that causes a change, then you can make them a very dynamic and interesting character. Now this isn't always true as you have examples like the Paragons but they usually act as catalysts to the other characters more than they do much development themselves, although they can still be perfectly interesting leads.
Honestly good writing, no matter the character and whether you want them to be "good" or not is essential. They need to stay in character and if they change there needs to be a logical and believable (for that universe) reason why. If you have a generally optimistic character throughout the story and then suddenly in a different scene they're depressed or negative there needs to be a logical and stated reason why. It can be powerful to subver this and give them a moment of a break down but it needs to be written well.
Lets take Velvet Crowe for an example. She's not from FE but she's a great example of a protagonist that isn't your standard goodie lord. She's angry, vengeful, she kills innocent people and destroys towns, but everyone still likes her because she's written so well! The question is how is she written well? She's believable for one. The situations she's been put through, her perception of the world, it's all explored in a lot of detail and it makes sense. Her motivations make sense. It also helps that she's surrounded by such a strong and likable cast that help showcase her flaws and virtues in different ways when placed next to her. A good character needs good characters around them.
The same thing works with a classically good character too. They can be kind, virtuous, all for the good of others, and so long as there's a logical and believable reason why and those motivations are explored in depth (and work with the plot) then you have a good character.
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I do plan on starting a BK thread at some point because he's just that cool. I do love the BK.
As for Ike and the BK, I find that there's an interesting little dynamic there. The Black Knight helping Micaiah and farther pitting her against Ike is one of my favorite uses of him in RD. I do wish there had been more interaction there between all three of them but I wish there was more in general of everything in RD. Just make it never end lol.
I also wish Ike had shown some more emotion when confronting him, but that's just me. I don't know that there's much more I can personally say about Ike as I haven't played PoR , but overall I really do like him. He's fun to watch and I do really enjoy characters that just destroy maps. It's why I like Haar so much.
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1 hour ago, Icelerate said:
I think that in chapter 3-6, there should be a formal declaration of war before Micaiah ambushes because from what I remember, the Laguz Alliance doesn't even know Daein is now at war with the LA. That strikes as cowardly because you can't ambush someone when you're not at war with someone.
Also in chapter 3-12 after pouring the oil, I think Micaiah should have ordered the Apostle's army to retreat before giving the order to light them on fire.
As great as that would be... that's not how war usually works. There's generally an attack by one side or the other before war is officially declared. In this case, Micaiah and Daein struck first at the behest (read: forcing) of the Senate. Announcing that you're going to attack someone generally makes an ambush not very effective.
As for chapter 3-12 while that would have been nice the Senate wasn't interested in Sanaki's army retreating. An order for surrender would have probably worked better but in all honesty what is the likelihood of that happening?
6 hours ago, Tolvir said:I dont remember making that comment about Lucia. I fully agree, I really liked the entirety of Part 2, one of my favorite parts in the game.I agree that playing both perspectives is good, I just think that the DB could have gained a bit from a few more maps, both for gameplay and story reasons.
I will say I dont mind the Sothe and Micaiah relationship. I should kind of rephrase what I said, as I dont find it as much silly, but in a way kind of forced at times. But that can be as much due to the lack of time the DB receives as a whole rather than them forcing a relationship. I just think that another member of the DB really needed to be important as well, especially Nolan considering he is supposed to be the leader of the Dawn Brigade, yet has maybe 5 lines in total across the entire game. I never minded Sothe's protective nature, as I thought it made sense considering their situation. His entire reasoning for sneaking onto the ship in PoR is pretty much to get to Micaiah. They are definitely close, I just think the game could have really done a better job with establishing that in RD, which again can be due to the fact that they get so little time compared to everyone else.
And agreed on Micaiah, she is by far one of my favorite lords in the series. I just wish she got a bit more recognition, placing as high as she did in CYL was nice, but outside of that I would almost say she sits alongside Leif as one of FE's forgotten protagonists.
While showing both sides is great (and I covered this some in my general outline of a rewrite for the game), the GMs got too much focus at the cost of Micaiah and the DB not getting anywhere near enough outside of Part 1.
I like Nolan. He should have more presence but not to the point of becoming the protagonist. Nolan needed to show more of a leadership role than he did and then have Micaiah slowly grow into her own as a leader, while still taking the advice of the far more experienced Nolan. As for Sothe I don't mind his nature so much and his relationship with Micaiah is great and understandable for what it is, I just don't like them ending up married. But that's just me.
Also yay! More people that like Micaiah! It really seems like everyone just... forgets about her. I mean she placed in the top ten on the CYL and still it's like IS is just not mentioning RD (outside of one mention in Warriors but seriously). Micaiah remains my favorite lord.
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Well I can honestly say I was expecting to hear from some of you and you did not disappoint! Thanks so much for the input, I really do enjoy reading it.
I will say though, please don't worry about spoiling PoR for me. I knew that risk when I started an Ike thread so please feel free to discuss PoR as well! :)
It seems like Ike is at least generally well liked though there is a general consensus on him being too important in RD with not enough development, which I can certainly agree on. Of course RD suffered from many things like that and the development could have been helped by some support conversations, but... oh well. I'd like to see people come up with their own at some point, but I'm not quite talented enough for that lol.
As for his appearance I must say that, though I like both, I do prefer his PoR design over his RD one. The same holds true for other PoR characters with the exception of Ranulf plus a couple others like Ilyana and Nephenee.
I think my biggest problem with Ike in RD that hasn't been touched on too much already is his ending in RD. Just... just no. It feels insanely out of character for him and everything the player gets to know about him. I can see him having multiple endings but I don't see that one in particular being among them.
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2 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:
Ike is my favourite FE character of all time. He's not just an excellent character. In Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn, he is an excellent unit, to the point where one can fairly easily complete Path of Radiance using Ike alone. As a unit, he's probably the best FE lord. As a character, in my humble opinion, even more so.
I like his personality. Blunt, honest, eager to learn from mistakes, and so much more I could say, but I am bad at describing character personalities in just a few words.
Please feel free to be as detailed as you like! I enjoy reading them! :)
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I appreciate that @DefyingFates but there's no need :) I knew I would get PoR spoilers when I started an Ike thread xD
So it seems like there's a general mid of the road consensus on Ike then? That's pretty interesting since I always believed Ike was insanely popular... or insanely hated by people. Huh.
Honestly RD!Ike, while I love him, does take the focus of the game off of Micaiah. I do agree that he should be in the game but he shouldn't have taken such a huge leading role. Also his ending really bothers me. Really. That needs to be changed.
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9 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:
I really liked his no-nonsense attitude in PoR, mostly because it was hilarious seeing him clash with Begnion officials and the like who expect more from him (read: expect him to respect nobles), but I also really liked his honest-to-a-fault nature when he meets the laguz for the first time and confesses he doesn't know a thing about them.
I like him in RD too.
...when he isn't stealing the spotlight from Micaiah, of course.
I pretty much agree with this entirely, except that his clash with Sanaki should have gotten him killed. He's very lucky Sanaki was more interested in playing a game with him and that Sephiran had vouched for him.
Personally I feel that they could have done much more in terms of development with him in RD than they did. Ike had his coming of age story in PoR, so they could have focused on most any other arc for him in RD and they just... didn't. He remained pretty static. I still liked him but he could have used less spotlight and more development.
8 minutes ago, Glaceon Mage said:FE9 Ike isn't a fav, but he's not super hateable. I'm ambivalent about him at best, his existence is a bit soiled by FE10 Ike.
FE10 Ike however is one of my least liked characters in the entire series. He's a spotlight hog, bland, has no development, and all around has no business being a main protagonist again. He had his game. He should not steal someone else's.
Micaiah should quite frankly have been FE10's sole "lord" character.
A spotlight hog, yes, right alongside Yune. No development, also yes, and that could have been fixed pretty easily, but that's more an issue with the game having lackluster writing in a potentially mega-tier game. Seriously, if they had fixed the writing the game would have been the best in the series by far.
Of course I agree that Micaiah should have been the sole lord character but it is a Tellius game so I expected Ike to make some sort of appearance and I liked that he did show up and helped out... he just shouldn't have been such a huge focus.
6 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:I like Ike. He's a well written character and a good unit.
Now I don't always think Ike is a likable guy but even that is always in line with his personality.
I'm sure the nobles of the games agree with you xD I like Ike too.
2 minutes ago, blah the Prussian said:I think Ike is overall quite overrated.
His character arc is essentially your standard FE lord coming of age, except that he's only learning responsibility for a mercenary group instead of a nation. The whole commoner angle could have been interesting, but the narrative doesn't really engage with it; Ike starts and ends the game with, among other things, the same attitudes towards nobility, the same attitudes towards discrimination, and the same general perspective, and I don't see how him being a commoner changes this perspective. Finally, I feel that Ike is simply a less interesting character than Elincia, and that his moronic rivalry with the Black Knight distracts from Ashnard, a much better antagonist. Ike isn't bad, but he's far from the best FE has to offer in terms of protagonists.
I do agree that Ashnard is a great protagonist and he deviates from the dragon/god/relative villain that FE uses so commonly, but I really liked the Black Knight. His theme music was great and it was interesting to see him come and help Micaiah out, much to everyone else's consternation. As for Elincia I really liked her too but it seemed like everyone relied too much on Ike in RD. Poor guy didn't stand a chance xD
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So when it comes to Ike, it seems like everyone really likes him. He's extremely popular, at least PoR!Ike, and heck, it's hard not to like him.
Ike is probably one of my favorite male lords, despite not being able to play PoR personally I do still know of his more major feats from that game, and so I'm interested to hear everyone's more in-depth opinions on him.
Do you love him? Like him? Dislike him? Hate him?
Feel free to share!
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2 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:
Oh hey, I love their Miscellaneous Myths. XD
The "Manly" is more on the case of them being heroic. Marth, Eliwood, and Alm are shown to not be violent or try to better their fighting, but they are clearly very strong warriors, and are very heroic. Being manly doesn't have to be defined as being the tough guy that Ike and Hector represent.
Oh yay another fan! :)
2 hours ago, Anacybele said:Well then, say heroic or something. xP I always consider manliness to be looking masculine and having little to no feminine traits/characteristics.
Honestly it's not really described as being "heroic" as you can be heroic and not manly, but it's definitely a lack of feminine characteristics. In that thread Ike, Hector, Ephraim, Chrom, Xander, Ryoma.... most of the lords can be considered "manly men". If you're going by what they look like then Hector and RD!Ike definitely fall into that trope but the others do too. It's not a bad thing by any means and there are a fair number of "manly heroines" out there too, who doesn't love someone that can kick butt?
1 hour ago, ping said:That's a pretty cool channel that I'll check out more later.
![:]](//s3-forums.serenesforest.net/emoticons/default_emo11.gif ":]")
Anyway, I can't bring myself to *like* Micaiah for a couple of reasons, even though I highly enjoy the first two parts of RD and I appreciate how Micaiah mirrors PoR!Ike in a somewhat cynical way - PoR's liberation story works out like a disney fairytale, with Ike as the "knight" for the noble princess Elincia, while Micaiah and Pelleas are manipulated into a similar constellation because Izuka recognizes the power of that narrative. And while Crimea in PoR gets strong support from the benevolent empress of Begnion, the corrupt senate of the very same country bleeds Daein dry and basically vassalizes them the moment they formally regain their independence. I really like that RD kinda acknowledges how improbably smooth PoR's plot had unfolded, and while it's not part of the topic, I also like that part 2 shows that it's not just gumdrops and icecream for Elincia after her coronation, either. So what do I dislike about Micaiah?
First, she stops thinking at a crucial point of the plot, i.e. when Pelleas gets blackmailed by the Begnion senate via the blood pact. In part one, she shows that she will trust her own judgement, stand up against Izuka's horrible planning and, if necessary, work without Pelleas' support (I'm thinking of the swamp chapter). In part three, she basically goes, "welp, I'll trust my king" when Pelleas' orders clearly go against Daein's interest and it's up to Sothe to pressure the reasoning out of Pelleas.
Speaking of Sothe: Ugh. I can't stand his character and how he interacts with Micaiah in RD at all. I mean, Micaiah is a General of Daein, she's the older sibling, but Sothe still has to be her white knight and save her when she explicitly says that she's doing everything out of her own free will? Come on. I find Micaiah to be one of the best examples that Fire Emblem just doesn't seem to be able to have a female MC that's just strong. (Well Lyn in her own story fits the bill, what with pride and self-reliance being her main character traits, but she's really just a minor character in the main story) (I also find it more than just a little creepy that Sothe is the closest Micaiah has as a canon love interest. Sure, they're not related by blood, but they're still siblings :/ )
I would kinda disagree when it comes to Sacred Stones - it's less that Eirika gets overshadowed by Ephraim (the focus stays on whoever you choose to go with), it's more that the game fails to really showcase Ephraim's flaw, which would be his recklessness. It does bite him in the ass when he decides to confront the demon king 1vs1 (in the mirror scene to Eirika's infamous naivety peak), but for the rest of the game, he just keeps succeeding, which makes Seth criticism after they retake Renais come out of nowhere. As such, they don't come across as two flawed individuals (i.e. Eirika who is too trusting and Ephraim who overestimates his own abilities), but the cool twin and the stupid twin.
As I haven't played PoR I can't say one way or the other about parallels but that's still really cool and interesting to read. I always thought Micaiah's struggle was more realistic in terms of warfare than most FE stories where everything seems to miraculously work out for the small, ragtag group. I do wish Micaiah had stood up to Pelleas more than she did as she's definitely shown in Part 1 that she's more than capable of it but I feel that's more an effect of the writers trying to move the plot along and having a reason to make Ike and Micaiah fight than anything else. As for Sothe I always found their ending to be... weird, but I get why he's overprotective of her. Though you're definitely right, they needed to handle Micaiah far better than they did.
As for Sacred Stones, I will say that I haven't played it myself, but I've read enough to get that Ephraim has very much overshadowed Eirika in the minds of the masses. Ephraim is the cool one and she's dumb for her choices and the same is applied to Alm and Celica. So basically, IS needs to work on their female characters... badly.
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4 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:
Elincia, Lyn, Celica, Eirika. All of these other Female Lord characters are either pushed to the side, make stupid mistakes, or become damsels. FE15 had Celica start off strong, but come Act 4, she ends up losing about 50 IQ points and suddenly makes some of the most ridiculous decisions because FUCK logic and make a deal with the man that tried to kill you several times. Lyn's issue is that her entire story... is a tutorial. Then she's more just this other character that's there but really has no huge impact to the story. Hell, she doesn't even get a real legendary weapon, but instead has this weapon that's about as powerful, but still her weapon holds no plot relevance in either FE7 or FE6.
Eirika, the girl that should have been lord, but instead we have the Ephraim praises. Because why have a girl that is naive that can grow to be a great leader and instead just go with a guy that just can't fucking lose, because the plot demands that he's so epic and badass that cannot lose any fights because, "I don't pick fights I can't win."
So there's this channel on Youtube I really like called Overly Sarcastic Productions. I don't know if you or @Anacybele have heard of this channel but it's really cool and covers lots of tropes and stories and classic myths.
It seems like many of the FE lords fall into the whole "manly man" trope while many of the females tend to be overshadowed because of that. In fact.. here are a couple videos from that channel. Please go watch, the channel is really a lot of fun!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4InTzxkd_0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rLfENrnsoQ
But yeah, the female characters tend to get overshadowed by their male counterparts in their stories and that's a big issue I have with the FE games despite how much I love them. It's a big issue I have with RD especially because you have all of these otherwise strong and great female characters that... just get put aside. It's not just Micaiah either. It happens to Sanaki, Elincia, Lucia, Micaiah, etc.
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