Barren

@haarhaarhaar I have used Vengeance Dedue on my maddening run as a Paladin which he was able to get by chapter 10. He was a Brigand and Cavalier beforehand for me. I never tried defiant strength Dedue but it sounds like it can be devastating. I would think that him needing C+ in swords and C and axes sounds achievable. And needing B in lances and C+ in riding should be fine for him by maybe the very end of part 1. I suspect he would be a cavalier for the rest of part 1 unless you give him a lot of special treatment to make him a Paladin sooner. Dedue also carries battalion wrath so giving him a silver shield and duscar heavy soldiers would grant him insane bulk. Defensive Tactics also helps keeps the set up alive. You don’t need defiant strength for vengeance to be effective imo since HP+5 basically grants him 5 extra points of damage in addition to lancefaire and death blow. Plus he’s got really good HP so would be set without it at least imo.

Some people can be dicks about it unfortunately. It’s part of the bad from any community. I mean I think we should still agree to disagree because while our experiences with builds are different from each other’s since everyone’s milage varies. Like I’ve said before about the Hero Class since we’ve derailed hard from the topic, I don’t typically go for defiant strength builds because not everyone can pull it off well. Like Balthus is an excellent candidate for the build thanks to his King of Grappling ability. Combine that with Vantage + Wrath as a War Master and he’ll just deal overkill damage. I actually did try it out curiosity during my Crimson Flower run. It worked but not for very long because I didn’t get too much use out of it. I probably could have gotten a different ability for him. But in general, I would give him Brawling Prowess, Brawl Avoid +20, Vantage, Wrath and Defiant Strength. He wouldn’t need Death Blow at that point because that and Killer Knuckles and a battalion that offers high hit and crit will be enough to KO any non armored units.

I did do the rusted weapon exploit with the auxiliary battle admittedly in early part 1 and to some extent part 2 to get some of these weapon ranks high enough. Tutoring Dedue in riding in particular took longer because he’s not great with riding so it took until around chapter 8 I want to say before he was able to jump into cavalier. Some sauna usage for Dedue and to a small extent Dimitri was also in order so yes a good amount of work had to be done. The chapters I was chose to do the paralogue battles since they throw a lot at you I had to be sure that my turns were deliberate while also aiming to win was a pretty delicate process.

I had Hit+20 on him to compensate for the lack of weapon prowess. So being able to switch between sword and lance for Dimitri pending on what I need him for tends to be less of a chore than normal. Especially if I also have Paladin Dedue provide a link bonus for him. Plus Dimitri can still have Wo Dao equipped for Windsweep and being able to crit on the same set. I’ve gotten use out of Wo Dao Dimitri quite a lot on my Azure Moon run. In fact he scored two crits in a row on Hedgemon Edelgard on enemy phase on her last life bar effectively one rounding her. I switched him out of Paladin into Great Lord because he needed a better time getting on the stairs and having the extra avoid due to a better speed stat helped out.

That’s the thing about Hunting by Daybreak. You can never be 100% sure unless you put your strategy to practice. The route that kind of gave me the most trouble was Azure Moon if only because I had to use up at least 4 divine pulses some of which was because Dimitri got killed because of un lucky hit he had to endure and then it snowballed. But even then it wasn’t too bad.

@5PointGordin Swordmaster Dimitri and Paladin Dimitri have their pros and cons. Paladin Dimitri is slower but tends to have a bit more flexibility imo because while we already talked about his BnB, he also gets Windsweep as a combat art so he could still have a good player phase where he can get a free hit and could set up kills for his teammates since his strength growth is really high. And canto let’s him move into a safer position afterwards especially when coupled with stride. Forest, lava and sand terrain will always be a issue for him but for the most part the Azure Moon chapters don’t really hinder Paladins too much, it’s just there are a couple of chapters where it may not be the best option because you’re on a horse. You pretty much covered his advantages as a Swordmaster as he’ll be more likely to score crits on both phases especially when given the right build. Of course 5 move isn’t great so you would need Stride, dancing and probably some warp/rescue movement tech to get Dimitri into position. It can totally work, but he’ll need enough support to be effective. Others would consider him going Wyvern Lord but his axe bane makes it tough for him to achieve. It’s mostly a very long term investment but his growths would be pretty insane if you were to make it there.

Good points as this does has it draw backs. But you don’t have to necessarily have to have Killer Lance for Dimitri. There is also Wo Dao if you want to avoid the lancebreaker+ issue that you pointed out. From my experience I do tend to occasionally either switch between his sword and lance for his high crit build, or if possible have someone else like Byleth for example take care of the warriors and wyvern riders that tend to have lancebreaker+. You’re right about monsters with their barriers up that they negate crits. I generally just wait until their barriers are destroyed then it’s fair game after that. And you are also right about not being %100 full proof. Sometimes he’ll fail to crit and then get hit. But for me, it worked more often than it didn’t. Dimitri is also capable of dodge tanking if you want to give him sword avoid+20 and Gautier Knights Co. which grants him another 20 avoid. His upgraded personal ability when at full HP.

Dimitri’s Battalion Vantage + Battalion Wrath I would argue is still manageable because you simply pick a battalion that offers good stats especially in hit and crits and then once Dimitri reaches authority rank A which shouldn’t be too hard to do, then it’s worth the investment. Yes dodge tanking is one of the best builds in three houses there is no doubt. But this setup for me was a godsend on maddening.

I have detected a issue with your chapter 10 strat @FionordeQuester. I did have Florina move to the north of the archer at turn 2 and landed a crit like you said. But by following the instructions on turn 2 and turn 3, she can’t make it to the northern fortress by turn 4 because she is three spaces off and there is a mercenary blocking the way as well Plus not to mention that a cavalier shows up so regardless of where I move Florina, she gets killed. So I’m not sure what I was supposed to do there. If anyone else has done this successfully please let me know if I could have went against these instructions a little bit in order to reach the fortress by turn 4.

You do get one extra week before the chapter 12 mission. Shamir mentions that the empire will invade within 2 weeks (though technically in the game it's 2 weeks and I think 1 or 2 days). So week 1 you have a chance to do whatever you need to do around the monastery. In the case of Silver Snow, it's your only shot at recruiting Hilda. Or recruit whichever student you have yet to nab. Then week 2 assuming your professor level is maxed out, you have 3 activity points to do battle if you so desire. For me, on week 1 (the moment you get Seteth) I get him to pass the soldier exam, then the next week the brigand exam. So I would spend 1 activity point getting him to master soldier which isn't too hard, then the next point on mastering brigand. Finally at that point even when you spend the third point on Hilda/Cyril Paralogue Seteth will be a Wyvern Rider with Defense +2, Death Blow and Reposition so now he comes with better bulk, damage and utility.

To be fair, there is merit to what Regnor was saying in that, yes Hero can be a low investment build for some of part 2 on all 4 routes. I just kind of wished that Hero or any sword class in general got better buffs for the next main stay FE game not counting Three Hopes which is coming out later this year. Like you, I too wouldn’t try to do a Vantage + B.Wrath build because managing both HP and your battalion’s endurance is a chore. I’d personally just do either one or the other if I’m going for a wrath build.

To add to your point if either Ingrid or Felix can provide a link bonus for Sylvain assuming their support is that A or A+, he gets a +3 attack bonus in addition to +10 hit/avoid. Sylvain can even use Gloucester Knights Co. as a battalion for +5 magic and +10 hit or Mockingbird Thieves for the same buffs but add in 10 avoid. And female Byleth can activate Philanderer and have Sacred Power. With both of those combined, Sylvain gets another +5 attack and takes 5 less points of damage. If you want to add rallies from Annette or Ingrid (she gets rally magic) on top of that, you can.

Hubert could also pull off a Magic Bow Sniper build if you so desire as well. Of course working on his bow rank will require some effort and being able to get a Magic wouldn’t really be possible until late into part 2. So he would basically be stuck either doing pitiful damage with a physical bow for a while or just stick him into dark mage while working on bows as a side thing. As for Arrow of Indra I once used Annette as a Dark Knight. With the aid of Byleth’s Sacred Power, a magic battalion that added higher magic and hit rate (I think it was Macuil Evil Repel Co.), Fiendish Blow and Magic +2, she one shots every Paladin on the last map on Crimson Flower with Knightkneeler. She also one rounds Gilbert with Arrow of Indra assuming Pavise doesn’t trigger. I believe her magic may have been around 35 or so due to good growths and a couple of stat boosters. But still I was impressed that she was able to contribute to a strong opening turn.

There is also Blessing and a guard adjutant you can use for Balthus too. Rally Charm does at least lower the chances of a unit being hit by a gambit. Plus you could also send someone to either kill the gambit user or if Balthus has a offensive gambit, use that on the enemy that has a gambit to prevent them from using it themselves. Retribution also helps with snipers and warlocks of the like. Yes nothing is guaranteed but with some monthly tea time with Balthus for a point of charm you could make it work. Stat boosters too. Is this something that I would do? No not necessarily, but that doesn’t mean no one should try it for themselves. I once used Ingrid with defiant avoid and a crit set with the Cursed Ashiya sword and retribution. And for me she never died nor got hit. Just sliced through enemies like butter.

That is a fair point. Even with Fimbulvetr he’s still had to compete with other notable magic users and Lysithea just blows him out of the water unsurprisingly. But that wouldn’t be a fair comparison by any stretch. She just feels like in a league of her own. Iggy just feels better to use as a Sniper or Assassin anyways. Seal Strength has its uses when he attacks with something like Haze Slice for extra avoid. Or if you want to potentially one round enemies with HV.

In a vacuum it’s generally more trouble than it’s worth yes. Plus it takes a lot of deliberate setup to pull it off. Like Blessing, Retribution and a guard adjutant. Just to make on super unit. At least with Vengeance builds (most famously Bernadetta) can be better to manage without vantage or wrath. I know that this is off topic but it is a low HP strategy that associates this high risk high reward gameplay.

Would you also include a magic based Ignatz? He has a budding talent in reason and him having Watchful Eye and Fimbulvetr makes it easier to hit. If only he had black magic crit +10 instead of seal strength. That would be so good.

I remember someone wrote up a maddening meta analysis. I think it was Regnor. He pointed out that while all sword classes like Swordmaster or Assassin and even Hero are not worth considered to be final picks for classes, Hero is the best out of the 4 Swordfaire users which isn’t saying alot because of defiant strength shenanigans. Plus you would need Wrath from the warrior class to combo with Hero’s innate vantage to work well. Balthus has a boon in sword and axe so he can easily nab it. Also it does mesh very well with his personal skill so you’ll be seeing some really high numbers from on. Especially if you bring Vantage, Wrath and Defiant Strength to Warmaster. It is a shame that Hero is too gimmicky in this game anyways for them to work. And being gender locked doesn’t help matters either. Using Vantage + Battalion Wrath is more of a chore compared to regular Vantage + Wrath anyways. I particularly would rather abuse Dimitri’s B. Vantage and B.Wrath or some combo of B. Wrath with like Alert Stance or something.

For me I had Seteth with Defense +2 and Felix’s Aegis Shield for added defense. Plus Seteth’s defense is quite respectable enough for him to be taking like 4 - 6 points of damage per hit from regular thieves and mercenaries. Obviously Assassins and Snipers give him trouble. Brawlers do nearly nothing to him. He still gets doubled regardless at that point but giving him defense +2, aegis shield and maybe even a giant shell if you want makes him incredibly bulky. Byleth I just make the enemies bunch themselves up for a AoE battalion like using Blaze or Resonant Lightning. I always bring a couple of people with swordbreaker.

Ahh awesome! Thanks for the tip!

I just have a quick question about using a heart seal. I know that whoever I use a heart seal on will remain at their current level. If I were to for example heart seal Jakob to a Paladin by level 15 after picking up Tomebreaker, will he still be able to learn defender and aegis?

Okay good to note.

I figured that the HP bane didn’t sound right. If Sol isn’t good because of the activation rate not reliable or it just doesn’t give you enough HP back, then I suppose there is no harm in skipping it. At least if anything I would always have a healer nearby.

Okay I got it now. I’ll have to keep it in mind when I play birthright. I was getting in some practice on lunatic so I should okay as long as I keep things streamlined. But back to Corrin’s build. I have been looking up other guides aside from here, and it seems like that in general if I’m going Hoshidan, then I would probably be better off picking a talent that has access to a Nohrian class like mercenary or mage. I know cavalier is a thing too though Silas is around. I’m thinking a +speed/-luck build might be good here. Other people have said that HP as a bane is another solid option but I’m not entirely sure how I feel about it. Merc gives me Strong Riposte for +3 damage during EP, and then later on Sol from Hero for survivability. Cavalier gives me Elbow room which is nice for a +3 damage without terrain. I guess Luna is nice for potential extra damage with Hoshidan Unity. Or is Dragon Fang fine by itself? People have also pointed out that Samurai/Swordmaster is also good for the skills that are useful in a vacuum.

So in other words, unless I’m grinding using DLC (which I do have) it’s generally not worth reclassing too much just to pick up skills that might not be too practical down the line