Reikken

Did you read past the first eight words in my post? Indeed I did, sir. But did you read past the first two sentences in mine?

Mist-A-Mordecai-B-Stefan imo if we're going to be using Stefan Or does he? Oscar C Marcia B Rhys B would make for some very nice offense. Anyway, when Rhys is closer to the enemy, he's more likely to be in range of Kieran.

On offense, yes, Soren is doing better. Indeed, he shouldn't be taking many attacks, but if you need him to, he often can. A 20/6 Rhys averages 129 hit with Nosferatu and no supports. Paladins are fairly speedy/lucky and might have 30ish avoid at lv 1. Snipers, Halberdiers, etc. are all slower with like 23-27 avo or less. Only swordmasters (and ravens. Later cats too) have more avoid. I would expect like 36. Less for ravens. Then add just a B Kieran, and he gets +10 hit. So no, hitting isn't really an issue.

only if you're regularly frontlining with him or something. There are two of them, as stated, and he only uses 1 use per round as opposed to the 2 that are often used per round. EDIT: lol very late

Either I didn't explain it well enough, or you're not paying attention. Here, I'll do it with numbers: RHYS HP: 33 RHYS DEF: 8 RHYS ATK: 32 (20/6-7 Rhys with no supports) ENEMY ATK: 21 ENEMY RES: 9 (lv 1 steel lance halberdier with 3 more res than it should have) w/o Nosferatu: - Rhys takes 13 (20/33) - takes 13 (7/33) - takes 13 (dies) w/Nosferatu: "Effectively giving him +a lot of def for all hits except the first one [when he's at full health] and the killing blow" - Rhys takes 13, heals 23 (33/33) takes 13 (20/33) -- "...except the first one..." he lost the full 13 hp on the first hit - takes 13, heals 23 (30/33) takes 13 (17/33) -- "Effectively giving him +a lot of def..." he lost only 3 hp - takes 13, heals 23 (27/33) takes 13 (14/33) -- ditto - takes 13, heals 23 (24/33) takes 13 (11/33) -- ditto - takes 13 (dies) -- "...except...the killing blow" he had less than 13 left, so he died, not getting the effective def bonus

negative utility = opportunity cost - utility(costs aside) (positive utility = utility - opportunity cost) If you want to pretend it doesn't exist, ok..... but it's there. The only issue is how you deal with it in tier lists. Sure, you can have tier lists where you assume that the opportunity cost is always kept low enough that neg utility never comes into play, but that's only for those particular lists that it effectively does not exist.

For offense, the AS loss only matters if he was doubling to begin with. Otherwise he does more damage since Nosferatu has higher mt. "Yes, it gets him doubled unless it was an enemy that he could double, but he heals much more damage than he receives, leaving him much better off for the next enemy attack. Effectively giving him +a lot of def for all hits except the first one [when he's at full health] and the killing blow. Unless there's an enemy that has already taken damage, in which case he won't get doubled due to killing on the counter."

No, I didn't. It's not huge. They have the same spd, and Rhys has 12-13 more luck. And there's still Nosferatu. There are 2 of them. Soren's defense is terrible. At average stats, 10/20 Soren is getting 2HK'd by anything with more than 25 atk.

Narga's doesn't have anything that I'm contesting--it's just about Rhys's level--, and I have no reason to counter smash. OK, so Soren is probably 10/10 by the time Rhys promotes. And this is before most others promote. Before supports, they're pretty much exactly the same except Soren has a substantial AS lead. Rhys has slightly higher atk/res. Oh yeah, Soren also has pretty good crit, in Adept. He clearly wins on offense. On defense, their stats are about the same, but Soren has B Ike for +15 avo, and Rhys can use Nosferatu. Yes, it gets him doubled unless it was an enemy that he could double, but he heals much more damage than he receives, leaving him much better off for the next enemy attack. Effectively giving him +a lot of def for all hits except the first one and the killing blow. Unless there's an enemy that has already taken damage, in which case he won't get doubled due to killing on the counter. By the time Rhys hits 20/12, Soren is about capped. This is pretty early. physics, etc = uber leveling. I would expect others to be liek 20/7-8. Then Rhys hits his own level cap relatively early thanks to hax0r staves. He gets a lot more hp/def/atk (/mag/res/critavo), but never beats Soren in spd. so 2-10: Rhys >>>> 11-16?: Soren >>>>> 17-21?: Soren >> 21-24?: ~= 25-29: Rhys >> fair assessment? y/n and then minus on Soren for using a master seal

Huh? There's no splitting it into themselves vs rest of the team. Not only is that irrelevant, but what you said is also false. Healing someone helps by keeping them from dying, right? And standing there, physically blocking someone from an enemy does the same, as does killing the enemy, etc. Anyway, the most important thing is that it's irrelevant. I already acknowledged that they also gain the use of staves in saying that they gain more (5 is more than 3). If they were able to attack and use a staff simultaneously, I would agree, but that's not the case. And even then, that only lasts until Rhys promotes himself.

It's not about someone else using it better. It's just the fact that someone else could use it at all. Like 5 (what Soren gets out of it) - 3 (what someone else gets out of it) = 2, not 5. We have to acknowledge that 3. Which is why I said "Also keep in mind that Rhys can also promote early but doesn't need to--he's already useful." Rhys may be better off not promoting early.

in FE9? Only against myrmidons before he promotes.

They're only making up for lost time at first, and light magic appears after only 3 chapters. EDIT: Others are indeed hurt. Just generally not by as much as what they gain from it.

Rhys is actually good before promotion, and, babying aside, he has a level lead. So an early-promoted Soren, eh? How does that compare... Also keep in mind that Rhys can also promote early but doesn't need to--he's already useful.

2 problems with your "perfect setup": 1: assuming that the player doesn't give a damn about Mist's atk 2: assuming the use of Ilyana, who is mid tier at best Also, IMPORTANT QUESTION: This topic is way too long for me to find it, so... Why are Soren and Ilyana > Rhys?

tl;dr @ the last several posts, so forgive me if this has already been said or if the issue has concluded. Oscar vs Kieran? It looks like we have... Kieran > Oscar in performance when both exist due to having noticeably better offense (3+ atk lead + better weapon selection before promotion---axe slayers >>> lance ones) while having enough defense that durability isn't an issue. The other factors are... use of supports for others, and Oscar's earlygame. Earlygame first. Oscar definitely has some positive use here since he's not taking any slots, but it's not very much. Indeed, he's worse than several other units (Titania, Gatrie, Shinon, Boyd), but even more importantly, a lot of his "use" just consists of gaining exp for himself and nothing else. There's no exp rank, so him killing something instead of Titania (or instead of no one, if it's not a rout chapter) is not helpful. For supports, not only does Ike have a lot of other options for supporters, but also the benefit the support gives to Ike only really lasts until Ike promotes. After that, he has god mode defenses anyway. +early defense for Ike +defense for Tanith, possibly at the cost of offense +defense for lulzJanaff vs +offense for Marcia, and +some defense +ditto for Rhys, though a bit inactive I'd give the edge to Oscar, but again, not much of one. I think that Kieran's offense > Oscar's advantages.

I made a post in regards to that before on another site...

What I want is a random fixed mode. In fixed mode, you basically get growth% of a stat with each level up. What I want is to get RN(0~2)*growth% of a stat. Or actually it would be better if the RN were 0.5~1.5. No wait! even better... In options at the start of the game, you get to pick how random you want it. with a slider that goes from 0 to 100. 0 = RN is 1~1. 50 = RN is 0.5~1.5. 100 = RN is 0.0~2.0. Or perhaps...your options range from 0 even to 150... (with 150, RN is -0.5~2.5, meaning that you can lose points on level up if you're truly unlucky)

0 utility = somewhere around mid tier is my vote Someone said that mid tier is an arbitrary mark. I say... Not really. To get to my conclusion, I start with the anyone-not-in-the-perfect-team-has-neg-utility theory, since that makes sense logically. But intuitively, it just seems wrong. Why? Because that assumes that the only team being considered is the perfect team. But the best team ever is not always going to be used. We must consider other teams as well, as other units do indeed get used. Same as with supports. How far down the tier list do other teams extend? They vary a lot, of course, but better teams are more likely than worse teams, so when you average it all together, it doesn't go too terribly far down. It depends on the game, but I think it usually goes down to somewhere in mid tier.

I use stat boosters as soon as I can decide, which may be immediately or may be 5 chapters later. Usually sooner rather than later. I use secret shops if I know about them. I won't look them up for playing the game unless I feel I've beaten it enough times (sometimes "enough times" is 1 time), but I will look them up for debating it.

bard/dancer thing

Glass

Athos Barring that, the best answer is, unfortunately, "They all suck."

Defence: 3 (12%) fix'd

class: wyvern-mounted berserker with anima and staves hp: 9001 str: 9001 mag: 1337 skl: 9001 spd: 9002 luck: 1337 def: 1337 res: 1337 mov: 77 axe: SS anima: YY staves: ZZ