Reikken

Yes, 50k just like that plus some other stuff. But ONE max mt max crit +15 hit silver lance costs 15k.

"Just increase the avo base" doesn't actually fix anything. If an average base stat is 6, and strong characters have like 9-10 base str, but then dodgy characters have to have like 20 base spd? That's just ridiculous. And it leaves no room for in-betweens either. "Somewhat dodgy" characters/enemies are instead of being a bit on the fast side are uber fast (like 14 base spd or soemthing) and double attack everything that's not also uber fast.

Hit * Hit * Hit * Hit = 0.4^4= 0.0256 Hit * Hit * Miss * Hit * Hit = 0.4 ^ 4 * 0.6 = 0.01536 Hit * Miss * Hit * Hit * Hit = 0.4 ^ 4 * 0.6 = 0.01536 Miss * Hit * Hit * Hit * Hit = 0.4 ^ 4 * 0.6 = 0.01536 Hit * Hit * Hit * Miss * Hit = 0.4 ^ 4 * 0.6 = 0.01536 Hit * Hit * Hit * Miss * Miss * Hit = 0.4 ^ 4 * 0.6^2 = 0.009216 Hit * Hit * Miss * Miss * Hit * Hit = 0.4 ^ 4 * 0.6^2 = 0.009216 Hit * Hit * Miss * Hit * Miss * Hit = 0.4 ^ 4 * 0.6^2 = 0.009216 Hit * Miss * Miss * Hit * Hit * Hit = 0.4 ^ 4 * 0.6^2 = 0.009216 Hit * Miss * Hit * Miss * Hit * Hit = 0.4 ^ 4 * 0.6^2 = 0.009216 Hit * Miss * Hit * Hit * Miss * Hit = 0.4 ^ 4 * 0.6^2 = 0.009216 Miss * Miss * Hit * Hit * Hit * Hit = 0.4 ^ 4 * 0.6^2 = 0.009216 Miss * Hit * Miss * Hit * Hit * Hit = 0.4 ^ 4 * 0.6^2 = 0.009216 Miss * Hit * Hit * Miss * Hit * Hit = 0.4 ^ 4 * 0.6^2 = 0.009216 Miss * Hit * Hit * Hit * Miss * Hit = 0.4 ^ 4 * 0.6^2 = 0.009216 So it's 0.0256 + 0.01536*4 + 0.009216 * 10 = 0.0256 + 0.08704 + 0.09216 = 0.2047% Why are our results so different? I get 17.92%, using a program I made quite a while ago. 0.06144 for the second term rather than your 0.08704 And now that I look at it... 0.01536*4 = 0.06144. How did you get that .08 number?

eh what? Growths have nothing to do with this at all. Growths have no effect on bases and little to no effect on the first few chapters.

No it's not... Maybe for parts 1 and 2. But after that, you always have more use for more money. You can forge as many times per chapter as you want, and essentially spend as much as you want on each forge. You're only limited by your money, so you need a lot of money.

That still has the problem of dodgy classes being very un-dodgy early on.

2 Shins? Also what's our level range? What levels are Alan/Lance/Roy/Rutger etc on ch 7? ch 11? ch 14? ch 17? ch 21? END?

It certainly does matter. Like if I'm doing 6 damage, but the enemy has 14 hp, then I need 3 hits. Of course 3 hits at 100% is much worse than 1 hit at 60%. However, if it's 9 damage, then that's 2 hits. That's much more comparable. And I may indeed prefer that. Or 7 damage at 100% vs 14 damage at 50%, then I'll go with the 7...usually. If I think that I'll usually only get one attack, then sure, take the 14. Though even that depends.

30 hit for iron, while fine (maybe?) later on, would result in absurdly low hitrates early on, which still leaves us with a huge problem. Indeed the real problem is not in the weapon hit rates being too high for the stats---that is easily fixed: give iron low hit, steel higher, silver even higher---, but in the hit window (100) being too big for the stats and/or not growing with them like HP (the equivalent number for damage) does. Mm, indeed. Though it's not on-topic with the first post, this is a very good idea that gets even better the more I think about it. Not only does that make sense realistically, but it also helps make gameplay more interesting and even more balanced. You can have 9001-avoid units without them being broken because, while awesome 1v1, they'll still get raped if they get ganged up on. So no running off and soloing part of the map. This is cool for enemy units, too, especially bosses. You could have them practically require a team effort to be taken down. Can't be slain by just one strong unit. This could also be applied to def to a lesser extent. Well that's not a very fair comparison. The hit loss is much lower than the damage loss. The lower damage is less than half as much, while the higher damage's hit is more than half as much. 14*.60 = 8.4. 6*1.00 = 6.

Yes, we want avoid and def, but we also want atk and hit. @ pointless and wrong stuff about supports: Lugh gets full offense (up to 3 atk, 15 crit, 15 hit) and half avoid and half crit avo (up to 7 avo, 7 critavo) thanks to Ellen. Period. Comparing Ellen to Ellen-if-she-had-another-affinity is pointless. @ Clarine support stuff: I'm not talking about Clarine getting supports. I'm talking about how useful her supports are to others. And while Rutger has good offense, he is indeed lacking in atk power. It's one of the lowest on the team. When faced with enemies with good def, his otherwise impressive offense takes a big hit. Since he now needs a double crit, or can't one-round even with two crits unless he switches to a 0-crit weapon, or whatever. First of all, I never said anything about 3 healers. Second of all, I strongly disagree with that statement. 1 is too few for sure. 2 or 3 is better. And wow, considering how highly you seem to prize defense, you should be glad to have as many healers as possible. Saul needs it even more than Lugh does. Miledy? Well here's the first thing that comes to mind: ch 21, wyvern riders have around 15-17 def and 46-49 hp. Miledy, with maxed str, which isn't unlikely by then, and a silver lance has 39 atk. With that, assuming an equal spread of those two stats among the enemy, she has enough power to kill in two hits... 75% of the 15-def ones (48 damage), 25% of the 16-def ones (46 damage), and none of the 17-def ones (44 damage), so about 33% of them in total. With +1 atk, 100% of the 15 def (50 dmg), 75% of the 16-def (48), and 25% of the 17-def, so 67% of them. Additionally, her hit on them ranges from about 81 (93% real) to 87 (97%). On a double attack, that's a 6% - 13.5% chance to miss at least once. Adding 10 hit increases the hit chance to near 100% real, dropping the miss chance to 0.1% - 2.5%. And then there's also +crit, +avoid, +crit avoid (lots of killer weapons flying around among the enemy).

They don't grow at the same speed because you have different classes. Not everyone has the same skl/spd growth rate. (That would be disastrous anyway. Everyone would have very similar hit rates.) Ex: For a matchup of a low hit enemy class vs high avoid player class early on, the enemy will not actually have very low hit, since the low skl on the enemy and high spd on the player don't matter much. Only later on do those stat differences (low vs high) start to make a big difference. And vice versa.

Yes, it does. The goal isn't to get your opponent to admit defeat (concede). It's to make the better argument.

What the hell? If the entire game were enemy phase, this would be true. However, it's not. Defense is not inherently better than offense. (I'm not saying the reverse either.) Killing things means it's no longer there to attack anyone, and I can advance sooner. There are advantages either way. Then note my "Especially on units like Lugh, who are attacking much more than they are getting attacked." Ranged units don't eat hits nearly as much. You have your Lances and such for tanking (and counterattacking) the bulk of enemy phase. Therefore defense doesn't matter as much as his ability to kill off those pesky enemies.

FE is cool because the formulas are simple. Atk - def = damage. Hit - avoid = hit chance. etc. But there's a problem. Especially in the hit chance formula. Early on numbers are small. Stats are low. Later stats get bigger. This works nicely for damage because all numbers start small and get bigger. Str+weaponMt - def = damage, and damage is out of hp. All increase over time. For hit, however, only some of the numbers do this. Simplified a bit, it's Skl+weaponHit - spd = hit, and hit is out of 100. The problem here is that skl and spd start out small and get bigger, but weapon hit and 100 start out huge and don't grow. Weapon hit even gets smaller usually. As a result, you have very similar hitrates on everything early on. Dodgy classes don't dodge, etc. Hit rates are based almost entirely on weapon, with stats meaning little. Stats are just too small next to the 80 or so weapon hit and 100 window. Then later, hit/avoid differences between classes/characters have the potential to become too big, though that usually doesn't happen. So, if I were to change the formula, how could I fix this problem without getting rid of simplicity?

I choose the ones I like, however many or few that may be. Sometimes it's all of them (FE9). Sometimes it's red and green (FE6). Sometimes it's just one (Lowen-FE7). (Also I usually don't do the same thing on repeat plays. Like I might use all 4 in FE6, or just one in FE9, etc.)

Wind, king of garbage? Say what? Full offense is garbage now? Especially on units like Lugh, who are attacking much more than they are getting attacked. Do explain. It may be garbage in FE7, where you can one-round almost everything with an iron lance, but not at all here. Indeed, there are no garbage affinities in FE6. Additionally, a unit can't get its own affinity's support bonuses without a supporter, regardless of who it is.

You're not paying attention. You don't just say "oh btw Oscar wins durability". You tell why being more durable matters. And more specifically, why it matters more than the points your opponent is bringing up in favor of his/her own character.

Yes, 1 > 2 range. In terms of number of enemies. And what is that supposed to mean? Being as similar to the enemy as possible = good?

lol all of Clarine's supports aside from Rutger and Klein are +1s. And Clarine's aren't too slow and Ellen's are? And Clarine is mounted, and her only mounted supporter is Lance. Double standard much? And then Ellen's supporters need her more than Clarine's do. Deak has other supports in Lot and Rutger, one of which is much better. His other supports are also better, though not with the best of units. Rutger has other supports in Deak and Fir. Fir is admittedly a lot slower, but it also gives him atk that he sorely lacks, so it's not too bad. Lance has much better supports in Alan and Roy. Lugh, on the other hand, has Chad, who's hardly reliable, and that's it until way late. Saul has like nothing Miledy joins late and has imperfect compatability, so she needs supports that are as fast as she can get.

That includes Clarine. Ellen too. Saul is considerably worse off in this area, though. doesn't suck any more than being stuck to swords

Well that's up for discussion. I would disagree. It's not the judges' job to interpret the data presented. The debaters are supposed to do that. If this "minor" point is just discussed a lot, like bickering over who gets or doesn't get whatever supports, and no one ever says how it is or isn't important, then that's just a bad debate... And yeah, I guess it wouldn't be of too much importance. But a "major" point whose importance also isn't shown is also not of much importance. But if a "minor" point like weapon cost one debater plays up to be actually something significant, then it should have a lot of weight. Unless of course the other debater does a good job of downplaying it/showing how it's not important. Like you shouldn't have a judge doing something like this: (not that anyone would word it like this when saying it...) While much of the focus of the debate was on weapon cost, and DbtrA won that, I know that durability is much more important, and DbtrB showed that his unit won durability [even though it didn't get much emphasis], so I'm voting for DbtrB. Rather, I would say something more like "DbtrB didn't do a good job of emphasizing his unit's advantages or of showing the relative insignificance of DbtrA's unit's advantages. DbtrA didn't downplay DbtrB's unit's durability advantage, but she didn't really need to as it wasn't supported much to begin with, and she did do a good job of showing how weapon cost matters, so I'm voting for DbtrA. Debater 1 post 2 should be more like.. Ok, you have your irrelevant bullshit, but your irrelevant bullshit doesn't matter. Oscar's wins in durability and availability are much more important than this. and of course there should be reasons in there.

then Ellen and Saul should be much higher than they are

I can't see Clarine in top tier without the existence of exp rank. Nor with Ellen and Saul as low as they are, exp rank or not.

It was pretty clear to me. You apparently don't see enough Japanese animation/drawings. I still do.