Othin

dondon, are you even aware of the tier lists that were used and argued for years on FEFF and related sites?

My plan was to find out which option (first, second, or third) would correspond with that and list that instead, since that seems more helpful. I hadn't gotten around to looking into that, but I checked YayMarsha's video to find out after you mentioned it and added it. I'm sure there are other things that aren't perfect (including a few guesses). The pages are handled through the wiki, so if you think you might have anything else to add at any point, you might want to ask Vincent to make an account for you. It would make a few of the pages look better, since I had made them with merging in mind, so I'll see if I can get it to work at some point, but if not, I don't think it's too big of an issue. Thanks for all the guides on this stuff! Berwick Saga isn't too consistent about how it orders its weapons. In addition to the sometimes inconsistent groupings of weapons/magic/shields, within those groups, spears/axes and wind/thunder vary in their order depending on where you check. I went with spears before axes and wind before thunder because those seem to be the most common; the only instances I've noticed of the opposites are the weapon skills listing on the characters' pages for axes --> spears and the weapon skills listing on the level-up pages for thunder --> wind, while shops that contain both all indicate spears --> axes and wind --> thunder. So it's really up to preference (I had axes listed before spears until right before I started putting the tables online), but I think the one I'm currently using is most accurate. --- The links on the front page seem to work fine for me. Added information about which characters can equip the weapon type to the respective weapon type pages for convenience. Edit: Added some location details for the collector items. I'm uncertain about my description for getting the Rapid-Fire Bow; I've never played Supply Base, so does my description of the barracks mechanic sound accurate? And this is one thing I can't check YayMarsha's videos for.

Before FE8 was released in America, the DS was out, and FE9 was released in Japan. New GBA games came out for quite a while after the DS's release, but new DS games are still being released, so it doesn't seem like this is necessarily a different story in any way.

As far as I know, they sound accurate, although Adel doesn't look like the serious one from his portrait. I don't have much to go on, though. Edit: I think that's everything. I credited a bit excessively at times since it was easier that way; I'm assuming that's not a problem. Do you know of a way to merge cells on the table? Edit2: I noticed you list the elemental magics in order Fire/Thunder/Wind on the main page. I ordered them Fire/Wind/Thunder in all the tables, to go along with the order on the stats page, and a couple of other things, although they're listed as Fire/Thunder/Wind on the skills page when leveling up for some reason. Either way, I feel like it might be best if we made it consistent one way or the other.

Indeed, forcing a player to slow down, level up more, or use certain strategies doesn't really make the encounter more difficult or require more skill, and therefore be more rewarding and contribute more to the quality of the game. It can be a route to difficulty, but high stats do not cause actual difficulty themselves.

Thought it looked weirder than what I remembered, then checked back and learned that despite what I had thought, that was not the notation you usually used. Heh. But whatever. Updating the pages with that and the other stuff now.

My thoughts exactly. Kind of like playing the lottery, only spending seconds instead of dollars.

I spent quite a bit of time on other sites behaving in such a manner. It didn't go too well. I've been trying to improve about that here, but old habits are hard to break, which is why this is one of a few times when I've posted something overly harsh then attempted to back off when I realize what it'll cause.

That'd be a nice addition. It'd also provide a good place to add character portraits, since they don't seem too difficult to find, to add a bit more life to all this than just text. Say, do you know of any way to add superscripts manually on the wiki? I'd like to add those back if possible, since they make it look much better, and I had to remove them entirely in a couple of places where they were next to numbers.

They pretty much do; you play them almost exactly the same way as each other. Now compare to any of the first five FE games, or either of the Saga games, and the differences in how you play the games are multiplied by at least a hundred. I stand corrected; that's one kind of change. However, it just shows that FE can regress and lose mechanics, not progress and gain mechanics. The Saga games only look weird to you right now because you're used to every FE game being the same. When grouping them with the first five FE games, the progression makes sense, with each of the seven games adding a flood of new features and changing things around greatly. That's the sort of thing a new game in a series is meant to do, not rehash the previous game with tiny changes that will only matter to players looking at the game under a microscope. It's taking risks and trying new things, which is how a healthy series progresses and what makes good games what they are. --- I must admit that I came off more strongly than I intended to; I don't want to start any confrontations here. But let's be rational: How different can we really expect this to be when dropping the typically trivial stat Wt looks like a good example of how recent games have changed? I can agree with having wish lists, but projecting those on to a new game with no chance of fulfilling them seems unwise. I do recognize that this may not always be what's going on, another mistake of my original post, but I still suggest being wary of it. Edit: Well, trying to edit my original post to fit that more, I can't get it to anything that has much of a point. This was probably a bad idea in the first place. I'll just leave this here an an effort to clear up any misunderstandings as hopefully my last post on the matter.

Average stats are up, additional credits stuff for the pages up to Terrain are also up. I'll do the rest later; it's been quick. I am indeed a huge Berwick Saga enthusiast; it's my favorite game in the series (as I regard the expanded FE series). I've actually only been playing it for two or three months, after watching YayMarsha's videos on YouTube, and haven't even played all the way through it yet, but I love the depth, complexity, and resulting strategy. I feel that it's such a shame that it's been forgotten for so long and so difficult for English speakers to play, and I hope this will be the first big step towards solving that. And maybe sometime after that I'll be able to get some clue about what's going on in the story.

It's what makes a game interesting. In FE5 and Berwick Saga, enemies are almost always better armed than you, and whatever you want, you pretty much have to take from them one way or another. By no coincidence, those are the games that, more than others, actually take strategy in order to get through combat. Personally, I regard them as the best FE games both in gameplay and overall. And the infinite-use Fire Emblem that you have with you in every single chapter once you get it.

wtf is this, a United Nations meeting?

3-E in 4 turns? 80 kills? Are there any videos?

Please don't make me say it.

It's nice to hope for things, but given the track record of recent games, hoping for any big change in this new game is just setting up for disappointment.

Added everything on the first file. I'll do the average stats tomorrow, since they're all that's left.

I really don't care, but... people were arguing about this for that long? I thought it had been settled over a year ago or something.

While it's being brought up, I must say that I question whether factoring availability into a tier list serves any purpose at all. In FE7, Athos is rated near the bottom of the tier list, solely because of his availability. But what does that ranking mean? Does it mean you shouldn't use him when he's available? Certainly, that would be false. He doesn't require a unit slot, and he's incredibly powerful for the short time he's available while taking minimal or no resources away from the rest of the team, so he should be used on every playthrough when he's available, and tier lists should recognize that. Literally speaking, efficiency is effectiveness divided by cost. Athos has high effectiveness and almost zero cost, so he has nearly infinite efficiency, and should be at or near the top of any tier list, to signify that he should always be used during the time he's available, not at the bottom. Now, Athos isn't the only unit this applies to, but he's one of the most familiar and best examples of the problem of caring about availability and how it makes a tier list worthless for actually playing the game. Hopefully soon I'll be able to use Lanette as an example instead; she demonstrates the point even better, but no one would know what I was talking about if I started talking about her now. Or have I already made this post? Now I'm not sure...

Not sure how to test it without a wiki account yet, but does this look right? Doesn't seem too difficult; I think I can do this. Is there a way to fix the superscripts afterwards? Edit: Tested it using the page preview on another wiki and it seems to work, although I'm going to adjust the column sizes a bit. I noticed you were saying you need to set up any new accounts on the wiki, so if you can do that for me, I can get all the information formatted, along with some adjustments I've been making. Is there anything else it will take to get the database ready the main site? That's what I'm really interested in, since that's where people will actually see it, finally making Berwick Saga visible and playable to English-speaking FE fans.

Wait, how fast can you do 2-E without Haar?

If it would be best if I set up the tables on the wiki to get them ready for the main site, I can try my hand at that. Are there any shortcuts I should be aware of? I'm assuming you didn't copy all of those cells manually. On that note, I used formulas for most of the average stats file once I figured out how; will that interfere with anything?

Given that FE1 is being discussed, where many characters, healers included, don't get anything out of leveling up in the first place, and Magic as a stat doesn't even exist in any form at all, I'd say those really aren't relevant issues here.

Yeah. I can convert them to other formats if necessary. http://www.mediafire.com/?svr12qrxsx021jt http://www.mediafire.com/?m3qpbb2l8whcnhx Don't know if this is any more helpful, since it isn't Excel at all, but it's the format I had already converted them to. That in mind, these may be more helpful. http://www.mediafire.com/?lyu1n32u48frg3r http://www.mediafire.com/?08e003700bfk208

And finally, what you've all been waiting for! http://www.mediafire.com/?cdlq5cqw0mcxp8g http://www.mediafire.com/?w3iqlbcjgbw300k Of course, there's still much more to add in the future, and probably certain things that will need correcting, including a few remaining instances of guesswork. But for now, this is enough that I'm willing to offer it to Vincent in hopes of it filling out the main site's Berwick Saga page and dragging it out of the archives, to put it on a whole new level of accessibility for English-speaking players. Although, as Vincent noted, it would be best if Paladin, YayMarsha, or anyone else who's played Berwick Saga can review it first. Otherwise, I'm going to let the database speak for itself.