Jalmont

damn this is a lot harder than i figured things to be... psych for me right now is just playing really passive, isn't really responding to the discussion, and i can just tell that psych right now is just coasting in terms of providing the bare minimum without really offering anything insightful. vote switch to me was very ??? indicating that i think psych is going with the flow atm bear afaik claimed he has no powers so he is essentially vanilla right? which wouldn't be true because there aren't any vanillas - it doesn't help him that he's laid down scummy votes, basically popping in to vote having failed to add in any relevant insight (thoughts on his driving partner being mafia, cult leader, etc). for all intents and purposes he is afk, yet he hasn't been subbed (kay was subbed out before him which is ??? considering kay was part of the hydra that could do the heavy lifting) and is hanging around enough that he could still be sending in kills? i just dunno the kirshe/sb thing is more based on most all of kirshe's posts bothering me. i've realized that they can self empower every two nights so in reality that claim is prolly legit especially considering presence of godfather (although vig is null, seriously anybody in that spot has to vig obv mafia) my issue with kirshe is kirshe is repetitive, contradictory, and seems to be at odds with SB. i think SB's unvote post seems apologetic for kishe's play which is ?? for me. the logic issue i have is that i'm fairly townie, kirshe doesn't buy bear's claim yet confident with a vote on me. to me that doesn't make sense. vote me if you want, but don't say "well i think x is lying better vote y!" but in any case if i'm correct in understanding the cop role the hydra should be legit (can u guys still cop)? weapons's attitude feels abrasive and in general i think is a lot like psych in terms of post content. his posts lately (including sb vote) are coming out of left field for me, without too much explanation. it feels changed from earlier where i felt he was decisive and clear, where he isn't as clear lately. i really just want him to explain himself for that last vote, and just be a bit more active in providing analysis instead of "ur vote i vote this guy instead" i'm just not sure right now. i'm feeling da bear > kirshe > psych > weapons/beli > refa overall in terms of bad vibes but the bear lynch just seems...too easy?

sorry i don't pay attention to this forum at all so i forget that this game is happening (and i'm quite ambivalent towards NOC anyways) refa isn't cult i too am not feeling too good about the sb/kirshe combo and i need to reread to see exactly how their claim stacks up why is belisarius definitely not mafia (although like i said i'm more inclined to feel the hydra is mafia over beli) i don't like psych's recent posts and seemingly lack of effort (i'm fucking trying here alright), i don't like anything bear's done in this game, i don't really like the hydra claim, and there's something about weapons bothering me gone most of the day tomorrow but ill see how this develops and be back prolly sometime around now

it's too bad SB/kirshe are one slot considering i feel SB is leaning good while kirshe is bad, seriously dude you ask me the same question two days in a row then call it "overdefensive" because i pointed that out? alright dude disagree with belisarius going with the flow, i get the opposite read of him being decisive, going after his targets regardless of whether that is the "flow" thing to do i'll prolly check refa tonight then

i think shinori's response is decidedly village in tone BUT i feel his logic/defense relies too much on "you have to know me!" and other hypothetical arguments. only when pressured shinori posts. that being said i feel the belisarius/shinori interaction is just a toss up at this point for me. both sides have their town sides (shinori's tone, beli's logic) and vice versa for their shaky more scummy sides. but i don't think it's worth voting either over carpet monster at this point carpet monster today has provided no opinions on who is mafia, cult, or anything of the sort expect for providing info on his role. at this point i can't see myself moving my vote if you guys want to input on who you think i should target let me know otherwise i'm following my strategy still

my vote is based off a lot more than him being a JOAT

if we're going with "easy to fake as cult" then psych's "claim" is way easier than mine not to mention a vanilla role which is explicitly stated in the mechanics does not exist which would mean psych is lying about his role. this isn't a "graspy" push because if we're talking about easy claims this takes the cake for not really being provable and psych is lying about being vanilla if that's what he is. kirshe like i explained yesterday there's no point in checking suspicious people because i don't learn shit about them being mafia or not. cultable roles should be confirmed village that are not too strong. because it is in the cult's interest to get more numbers which doesn't work if your cultists aren't keeping a low profile. if you have a better suggestion please bring it up instead of complaining to me about how i'm checking the wrong targets. i personally disagree with you and SB's thoughts on who cult targets but that's w/e i guess for now i too would like to hear from weapons on his role because i still do not quite get how he checked me unless he got more powers from the prims role dying or what i can't be roleblocked so please don't bother hitting me ##vote carpet monster - his inconsistent play and all his abilities being 1-shot seem consistent with being CL - seems to be cracking under pressure, and 1 time abilities make sense given that cult apparently keep their roles. at this point psych also seems meh but given that my role did seem to indicate that there are nonrecruitable villagers i'm going to give psych the benefit of the doubt for now not sure atm if i buy shinori's "I SWEAR IF I WAS BAD I WOULD BE REALLY TRYING" sounds like a lame excuse on one hand but the other it's ehhhhh. leaving my vote for now and going to think about shinoro

because there are no vanillas in the game according to the rules

weapons is not cult, although now i'm unclear on his role is exactly - @weapons did you get a 1-time cult inspect or am i missing something related to your role here? i think i misunderstood refa's claim - i thought he just targetted everyone as like a decoy to throw off the mafia track/watch role (w/e it was). knowing that my only issue is that the role isn't all that provable and given the cult is OC mafia is a very common fake claim/scummy OC role that isn't really used in NOC based on my experience. while i do feel that rogue makes sense to keep the cult alive with the kills there are i think refa's general play and attitude has been pro-town and i can understand why refa used that targetting everyone role on n1 (if im understanding it correctly) because it's otherwise fairly useless. for now i think there are better targets that warrant more attention i think using flavor is in general dangerous but then again i have no clue who anybody is in this game so maybe it is a relevant thing to consider in this case. i would guess paperblade is the cult leader but then again he's like the only guy i know anything about. so ill let you guys do that unless there's a "history of SERENESFOREST mafia" i can read somewhere to me right now i feel that (ignoring flavor because i don't know shit) that carpet monster and bear and shinori are most likely to be mafia/CL with the main basis being inconsistent play along with claims that just don't jive with me - carpet monster's claims just isn't adding up for me in the sense that i'm not sure as a town he felt that he would be nk'd considering there was a vig claim. bear's existence is quite literally nonexistant except for snippets every now and then which at this point in the game indicates to me that if he is putting in the effort not to get subbed from a supposedly boring role then why isn't he trying. shinori is due to general ambivalence and the attitude of "whoops i messed up hahaha so funny free pass i'm good yayyyyyyyyy!!!" last thought: can we consider psych a vanilla? for all intents and purposes psych is vanilla since no action, but i;d like some thoughts on that. personally i feel like that's vanilla, which if true, raises some interesting questions on psych's alignment

not cult - my check can't be hooked/safeguarded/stopped because there's no use in checking people i think are mafia. mafia are automatically not cult because they can't be recruited (this is my understanding of the cult mechanic) so checking people who i have scumreads on doesn't work. i'm working off the assumption that the cult leader is culting the cleanest townies - people who are unlikely to be nightkilled and people who are unlikely to be lynched. so i think in that sense my actions make a lot of sense for how i've played (i thought eclipse was good after that lynch..) i checked iris because people were thinking she could be cult and i also thought that since she was basically cleaned she would be an ideal cult target. yep i was thinking about the last day where someone brought that up. you're right i should read the topic!1!!111!1 in any case afaik i don't get any indication if a user i check is a cultist or cult leader i'll ask though

alright then i'm blitz the cult inspector. i see if a player is part of the cult or not. no idea how to play in games with cult in them but there ya go. unless my role is a giant troll/a huge fuck you then cult 99% exists in this game. iris is cult - i checked last night. good thing too, i was thinking all of you were mafia or something for changing a read from confirmed to town to cult just based on... inactivity? maybe that's a cult tell but i would disagree with that checked blitz n1, eclipse n2 ---> all were ok (as in, not cult) i'm fairly positive cult is either restricted in culting or that maybe a larger number than just psych can't be recruited? i don't have any other information except for the fact that its hinted that some users can't be recruited. from my understanding of doing some research on cult games, if the leader isnt dead by n2 it's a cult win, which, obviously hasn't happened so i'm guessing it's balanced somehow. in other news i think it's really weird that the hydra slot hasn't been scumkilled yet, i feel like a potential 2 players in 1 slot makes it a strong village role (in the sense you have 2 different perspectives in just 1 slot) regardless of role (which wasn't bad anyways). maybe i'm just WIFOMing but that's just my thoughts beli's cat role feels like an easy mafia safe claim that's provable a la mitsuki but i havent really read beli closely enough to go any farther than that carpet monster is mafia...or cult??? i guess. claiming in the first place was weird, then changing it up now doesn't make any sense to me. in terms of finding cult i've been looking for people who have changed their play, backtracked, and i think this revelation by carpet monster makes me think he's cult > mafia, although idk if it really matters. yes, i come in and say things. that's why i was subbed into the game lol ##vote iris

i'm inclined to just say yes i think we've gotten all that we really can so unless people who are somewhere except for here decide to be here, i doubt something new that hasn't been said will come up so ya? i guess if no objections i can hammer sometime l8r tonight

while i personally dislike walls i'm not holding that against you (because it's pretty silly to expect everyone to play the same way), what i do find suspicious is that you still want refa dead (or at least it seems like) when you haven't really read/caught up with everything that's happened since day 1. i think the game has changed a lot since day 1 and failing to take that account means that your case isn't as relevant maybe the kirshe thing is just a coincedence but it did feel like to me your were backing kirche up without being explicit about it

eurykins, bearclaw, ffm really i've already gone over these guys but i'll recap real fast eurykins - bad last post, hasn't really been here but still wants to lynch refa because ??? seems to be throwing support for a refa lynch without actually offering anything (by lynch i mean is mafia etc etc etc) bearclaw - no real content from him, no opinions on sara., goes from saying that both of them are "town" to asking someone how they know that they together are of the same alignment. it seems like he pops in every now and then but otherwise i think he's trying to fly under the radar ffm - lame claim, no content, wishwashy decision making, overall confused play which makes me feel like he's cracking under the pressure of being scum

so wait, are kirsche and sb the same slot with the same role pm? not really understanding that mechanic at the moment i think psych is town. psych revealed it very early in the game iirc and i see no reason a mafia would open the game like that. seems too risky for it to be made up. of course, the cult could just be an elaborate troll (those kittens anyone?) but if it's real which psych's role seems to indicate it to be so, then i think psych is town i think it's unfair to criticize refa for the eclipse to sara. turnaround, to be fair i had to take a look at what bbm had to say on the situation having not read it so thoroughly and i found my opinion to have been changed. while maybe you could say that refa was more blatant in switching, i felt that bbm's post encouraged me to relook through sara. and i changed my mind because i looked at the interactions and agreed with what bbm was saying moreso than what i thought about mafia having no reason to lie in sara.'s spot didn't like the last eurykins post it just felt to me eurykins was getting behind refa being scum just because kirshe came in and layed down an argument on refa, relying on kirshe's argument instead of their own

flip explains what sara. had to gain from lying.. i see no reason not to believe weaponsofmassconstruction considering that play from a mafia perspective makes no sense but ill hold off on voting until near deadline so we can make the most out of the day user da bear to me hasn't really offered much in terms of content/explanation. going off his posts he goes from "we drove x and y because we are both town" to asking beli why they were so sure that bear and sara. were of the same alignment. to me that inconsistency really bothers me and while i would like to believe that having a scum pair leaves the mafia too vulnerable from a balance perspective nothing else bear has said/done jumps out to me as village. it is concerning that eurykins has gone from posting walls to not posting at all but i can't make a judgement on that behavior unless eurykins returns to posting (esp. on current events) weaponsofmassconstruction what;s the case for refa being mafia? carpet monster at this junction is either mafia or has tuned out of this game i find it *highly* unlikely one forgets that they didn't submit an action - their claim at the time was random and as far as i can tell doesn't seem to be providing any insight for the village given the flavor. this role seems pretty perfect for a mafia fake claim since it doesn't reveal any information that actually helps the village. all this plus carpet monster's fairly erratic behavior makes me feel that they are mafia

oops didn't vote ##Unvote, ##Vote: sara.

okay that's my bad i missed the page with rein's results and where it was discussed that iris got hooked ignore that then rereading sara. closely, i will say that i do have to agree with a lot of what bbm is saying; i just can't get my head around why sara. decided to lie about their role. it just seems like an all risk no gain play. i guess sara. was trying to get town cred with codriver? that's the part i just don't understand which makes me hesitant on that lynch on the other hand, i looked back at Mitsuki's post and i want to call attention to this one which i think really feels like bs "Elie's latest posts make me think he's town. I don't think scum would be trying so hard when it's so clear they're going to be lynched, much less Elie " first off the reasoning here is weak because for one , the lynch wasn't clearly going to be sara.. and then it follows that if it's close, of course the mafia will try and get the other person to be lynched! to me in hindsight this feels like reasoning to get off the sara. bandwagon and get on the marth one. people want to lynch eclipse because he thinks sara. is mafia for lying? i think that's a legitimate stance to have and one that for the most part makes sense as a hard policy - it's just i prefer looking at context of lies which made me believe that because there's nothing to gain from the lie, mafia wouldn't unnecessarily risk death to lie for no reason. it's here i think we would want some more discussion from the codriver but that's probably too late to happen i still think sara.'s lie just doesn't make any sense from a mafia standpoint and right now that's what is holding me back from thinking they is mafia

hello i personally feel that Sara. is not mafia. if this person was mafia-buds with mitsuki then i think she wouldn't have outed the fact sara. lied about his or her claim because that puts tremendous amount of pressure on sara. for lying (rightfully so). on the topic of lying on the claim, i think it would be suspicious had sara. had something to gain from the lie. as far as i can tell this person hasn't gained anything from it (ie town cred) so whilst i think it was questionable not to be honest, it's hard for me to see why a mafia would put themselves in a position where they endangers themselves with no obvious benefit i don't know what sort of player shinori is, but i think that hooking night 1 is not the best play and then outing that this person is a hooker role is questionable for me because i think the more the game goes on and more information is revealed there is a better chance that they hit mafia and stop a kill. right now this person's play does not seem to be "ideal" villager play so for these reasons i think that they are more likely to be mafia at this point user Iris i think also is mafia because of the post where they decided to vote marth. this user says some contradictory things such as "I really don't like turbo lynches" while then proceeding to join a turbo lynch. this user also would have rather lynched "elite or blitz" while contradicting themselves by saying "except not anymore" referring to blitz. their case on elie also was not strengthened with a real case in the time where they put their original vote with the reason of "bad vibes." for the reasons i have stated about iris i'm placing my vote on ##vote Iris

i carried paperblade

suckers rip in peace me

yeaaaaaaa suckas what's up with that lynch go team Kay, how is scorri your top town read? considering she (he????????????/) did nothing but attack me and advocate my wagon, which, obviously does not look so good in hindsight (you have to say there are at least a couple scum trying to push my wagon). I am quite interested in hearing some solid reasoning on that as I don't really understand how you could get there.

Sangyul mystery role #2

and i was going to go to sleep... re: scorri You've talked about nobody but me. You seem to have no interest in anybody else. Yeah, we're running low on time. But you had three days to talk about someone else, and you've pretty much failed to do that. It appears to me you are going for the easy lynch. re: marshmellow Damn first it was spam now it's "literally" tl;dr (as opposed to being "metaphorically tl;dr"). what a bunch of hard to please people smh... You are oversimplifying the point. At the point where everyone is posting opinions, that's when things become fair, especially late game because you can make connections between users. It becomes easier to spot where scum are being inconsistent. The "opinions" thing works in the sense that as soon as everyone gets a couple down, you can spot connections late game. I'm not trying to say "YOUR WAY OF MAFIA SUCKS STOP IT AAAA CONVERT ThE NONBELIEVERS" I am saying that I feel that there are times when the "opinion" thing doesn't work as well as everyone thinks it should, and that's where I see a weakness that can be exploited. Take scorri - stuck in the mindset of "FLUFF FLUFF FLUFF" I get a strong sense that she's pursuing the easy lynch that people will agree with because my play does not fit the style that has come to be expected. no opinion on shinori since haven't seen him/her since the opening salvo of votes and there's nothing conclusive there for me Maybe I was wrong in being too broad. I totally can see that given my limited experience, but experience nonetheless (it's not just this day 1 either). I have seen nothing to the contrary that suggests otherwise to my beliefs, but yes, I admit I could be being too broad in my characterization. most of the votes seem to be "pressure to me" i do not understand why refa is voting but it seems to be pressure to me? they are all votes within like the first 24 hours that probably do not hold as much weight as the votes on me do now. people are on my wagon because they think i'm scum - why are you voting shinori? #freelosses

I am now willing to lynch scorri. #realtalk #hatethegamenottheplayer #lifeonedge #no1leftbehind #mafiasucks #isuk #KONY2012 If i wanted to fit in that would be really easy ? just post opinions on people? right ?

Nope, I said please don't respond unless you actually want to get what I'm trying to say. At this point, all you are doing is taking me out of context to reinforce the point that I am fluffing or something? If you actually cared to figure out my reasoning and want to comment or object to something, then by all means ask/respond away. If you want to make progress why don't you help me help you and tell me what you don't get? It feels to me that you do not grasp the point of all that "fluff" but you seem to have moved to the conclusion that it is "fluff" no matter what and refuse to understand it. Fine. Go ahead and do that. But please don't take me out of context to make it seem like there is no point to what I've said. I can't clarify if I do not know what you do not understand.