XeKr

A simple explanation for the topics would be optimization=grinding and practicality=no grinding. Generally we want Corrin to be as strong as possible, so usually the boon/bane/talent focuses on that rather than the kids. Access to good 1-2 range is important given how rare it is in this game. High mobility is also valued. So far, the best setups seem to be: +Mag/-Luck Cavalier. Reclassing to Cavalier early gives +2 move, Open Assault while retaining Yato use. Levin Sword stuff later. Very strong as long as Corrin can double, which I think is most of the game on average. +Str/-Mag Ninja: Will need to build from E weapon rank, but otherwise very strong. High Res kinda gives you a more specialized role compared to Xander. Otherwise lower durability/mobility. Perhaps a trickier earlygame without Yato, so lean more on Jakob. Poison Strike can be useful on later bosses. +Spd/-Luck Cavalier. My current preference. Might like to buddy seal Nyx which can be a little tricky, but the midgame is decently tame as you have Camilla and Jakob. Open Assault and Defender technically gives Paladin 5 base mag most of the time, but yeah the Mag stat is very questionable. I also like this because I know I can give Speedwings to Jakob, Leo, Xander, etc. +Str or +Mag/-Luck whatever: A generic recommendation since frankly a lot is viable. Some will be better situationally in different chapters. Probably pick something that has Sword Rank though, or stay in the base class and give something to the children. Generic class advice is Dark Falcon/Dread Fighter (if available) -> Cavalier/Ninja/Dark Mage/Diviner -> whatever. If you don’t care too much about high move, staying in Dark Blood can be a strong choice. Can still Levin Sword for some nice ranged damage, and retains the flexibility of Dragonstone to tank. +Str if you want to use swords more and will Pair with someone that gives Spd. +Mag if you want to use Levin Sword/Tomes/Dragonstone more. +Spd is nice if you just want to double (almost) everything, even if in Attack stance or not a +Spd pairing. Kanna is a more magically inclined Corrin, without the Servant personal skill bonuses. Azura will lower her Mag growth though, so in that pairing she’s more of a physical glass cannon. She’s fine in Dark Blood, but could also like Paladin/Dark Knight. Shigure is a balanced Pegasus unit who doesn’t really need any class help. Paladin could useful for him for the skills and to lose the bow weakness. Passing Spear Fighter gives him some unmounted options if Corrin and Kana stick in their base classes. Paladin helps both kids, though, so in your case probably try either the +Mag or +Spd Cavalier. Can stick with Dark Blood for Corrin, or this also gives you a mounted option for certain chapters. (also not to spoil too much, but probably don't have the entire team mounted, for cases of effective damage)

Personally, I’d recommend +Spd in Conquest because it nearly guarantees Corrin will double, often even without a +Spd pairing, of which stuff like Jakob Paladin/GK, Gunter GK/Wyvern, Felicia Strategist all aren’t (all give move and some extra str/def counting class bonuses and personal skills). This is important because it allows more consistent one-rounding, avoiding stuff like the Seals or Poison skills, and provides a very fast dual guard gauge. The Ninja option is fast enough to not require it though (and you could always marry seal the early servant into Ninja). The 8 move 1-2 range classes though are magical (and relatively low Spd). I did find that between Levin Sword mt + Gunter/Felicia + tonics + Dark Knight/Blood base mag, it still seems to work out for a while. And these retain Yato use which is quite the weapon, nearly as strong as Steel/Silver with +avoid instead of drawbacks and will hit high Res enemies hard. But I do think it’s probably because I was once burned by a low Spd Corrin that had a hard time doubling stuff. Never again. >_> In both Birthright and Revelations, Yato gives +Spd and Horse Spirit (+3 Def/Spd) is buyable (Shurikens also give +2 if using that build). So there’s a bit less worry about stat benchmarks. I’m somewhat fond of +Hp so that Corrin can mow down enemies without much worry on enemy phase, but +Str/Mag might be more efficient. I prefer –Luck, as I find it essentially has no drawbacks. Enemies don’t have that much crit early (no early gamble/thunder+focus like in Awakening, for example), and Goddess Icons give +4. Some weapons give crit evade, Guard Stance itself and some character supports give crit evade. And so on. But lowering Str/Mag that you don’t use is another popular option. –Res is also decent as it’s relatively unimportant as a stat and minor in effect, but those mages do hurt. imo it's a bad idea to –Hp, Str, Spd, Def, which will always be important to Corrin in the maingame.

I don't think Corrin's Asset/Flaw factors into Kanna's growths. Which I think agrees with the data Vincent got. But I've seen it around, and I assume the theory started with some evidence in some situation. Is there some confusion with situations where Corrin is the "variable parent"? There, technically the asset/flaw counts since it affects Corrin's growths.

FE6 has true hit, though people complain about the RNG because the hit rates on basic weapons are lower, the enemy actually has a luck stat, and throne bonuses are high.

I didn’t exactly call her bad, but considering that Camilla, Leo, Xander come with high bases and still don’t exactly solo maps (in Lunatic), yeah Felicia!Kanna can be considered (relatively) bad. It’s more like she’s the midst of most of the cast, where they are somewhat able combat units if you want to invest a bit into them. Not really too much “grinding” required, but just kinda average, without much standing out. I mentioned some of the niches she may have in a team as it can be useful for characters to have different roles (some attack low Res units, some are speedy, glass cannons on player phase, some tank enemy phase, etc). Kanna is never that exceptional regardless, so I don’t think Felicia!Kanna is that much better/worse than Camilla!Kanna, for example, especially given the availability difference (more chapters is more time to contribute, though there’s also something to be said about being a more reliably high-stat unit lategame). But Camilla is probably the best mother statwise for magical/mixed Kanna, yeah. Sticking them together to build support can be a little tactically restricting though. In a practical sense, both Corrin and Xander are such good combat units that they should probably fight separately. However, as you know you want to marry him, you’ll need to spend a lot of time close by. Fighting in guard stance together will work, but for a while you kinda lose a great combat unit in the pocket of another (might be a little tricky in harder difficulties). Something to offset this could be becoming a high Res class (Ninja probably) or a flying class so that switching between the two characters in certain situations is useful. Another option is fighting adjacent to each other, so you could Pair with Felicia/Jakob/Gunter for the stats, and Xander could Pair with Charlotte/whoever. Could also use attack stance a lot, though generally both Corrin and Xander like being in guard stance to fight on enemy phase with boosted stats. In terms of sealing/inheritance. Xander doesn’t really need anything, classwise, though I suppose Samurai gives him a lot of Spd while trading off the mount. Similarly, both Siegbert and Kana are decent enough in their base classes as long as the growths don’t clash too much. Kana will be a bit worse at magic than usually, but a nice fighter on the physical side and having Cavalier access with base sword ranks is always nice. Corrin and Xander will be among the best units in the army because of their Prf weapons and skills (the servant bonuses especially). The children are nearly all just fun/cute bonus units in the main game. So just be mindful of the time actually building the support, and perhaps think about not going –Def since Corrin is so strong on the frontlines and any durability is valuable. If Kanna does get the boost of +Mag asset inherited, Dark Knight, Horse Spirit. If not, probably the same, just with lower damage. >_> For fun/variety purposes (having a dragon), you could stick with the princess class. More generally wrt to the children: Again, they’re kinda just solid extras and won’t be too amazing or too terrible in the main game. Generally good pairings ingame are ones that happen quickly, give good classes (mounted ones, typically. Sharing weapon ranks is good.), and have decent growth synergy since base stat inheritance is relatively low now (high Str or Mag, high Spd are probably the most important, then high Hp/Def/Res. Skl/Luck matter less). For example, Felicia will lower Percy’s Str/Def growths that he likes as a Wyvern. He also doesn’t really have the personal Mag growth to attack Res much. So Pieri would probably be a better ingame pairing, between the two. It will be difficult without grinding to get every child in a single run. From a practicality standpoint, just pick synergistic pairings between the parents you’re choosing to deploy in a given playthrough. There’s only so many slots.

True/Dragonstone is a niche for emergency ohkos/tanking, and she can use some Levin Sword+utility weapons (Armorslayer, Wyrmslayer, Lightning). The only really special thing Felicia!Kanna has is she can be recruited early, in an unique class (if Corrin is reclassed), but as you’ve noted her growths don’t scale that well to later. Usually the children in the maingame are nice fillers if spots are free or others are rng-screwed, but that's one of the sacrifices of marrying Felicia. Could always forgo that 1 Spd/Res in Guard Stance and marry someone else too. Strategist or such is fine, the class will be squishy regardless. But you do already have Elise and Felicia herself can make a decent one since she gets Battle Command way earlier.

So let’s assume everything pre-boss is near 100%. Say our characters each have a ~70% (true) chance to hit the boss, and 3 need to hit (someone needs attack stance iirc). That’s around 34.3% success in 5 turns or death. Alternatively, say Corrin/Gunter needs to hit 2 of 3 at 70% when paired. So 0.3*.49+0.7*0.91 (if first miss, need 2 hits, if first hits, need at least 1 hit in 2 attempts) = 78.4% success in 6 turns or try again after healing. If the raw numbers/premise are wrong, fair enough, but these efficiencies in the given conditions are comparable to me. Tbh one could arguably prefer the latter as expected turn count is around 14.58ish vs 7.65ish, so the latter is nearly twice as fast on average. (ignoring low percentage 7+ turns for simplicity. It doesn’t seem close enough to calc.) Taking into account Jakob +Str proc (1 point in 2 levels) brings it to 22% CoS (there’s the matter of fixed levels and so on, but eh). +Hp/Def are relatively insignificant in terms of base stats, true, but the hard turnshave in C1 probably means really dedicated players will take them regardless. of course, they’ll probably also use Strategist!Felicia and dodge everything. I’m also speculating, in a broader sense, it increases the overall chances of survival in C4. but fwiw, I’m increasingly a fan of reclassing Jakob first. Especially in Birthright, where GK!Jakob has some of the best, more reliable combat for a while. Best durability early, Flight+Spd pair ups that he wants, plus can get some ohkos on Ninja/Mages/Priests. Ninja/Dark Mage/Diviner have some nice 1-2 range options but mediocre bases and 3 mt weapons to start. In Nohr, +Spd Corrin with GK!Jakob is 6 move and can steamroll some stuff with Yato (avoiding seals/poison) and +7 def Guard Stance. Or +Mag dragonstone ohkos stuff with +9 def between stone+Jakob attack stance. Or using Jakob as the combat unit, ofc, quite high base Str/Def especially with Mysterious Appeal. It also gives you time to pick up Dragon Fang which can help greatly on some lategame bosses. It’s probably okay. 47.5% growth in Cav with at least 11 base. Also +1 from Hoshido weapons or more from the Quick-Draw katana. Dwyer is always going to need a good bit of investment because of his (lack of) weapon ranks, and he doesn’t have any outstanding bases, growths, or skills. Most interesting might be Tomebreaker inheritance on a classically physical class like GK though Jakob can do that himself too (does take a little while to get, but at least it’s not endgame late).

For C2, I ran through it fairly casually in 4 turns recently with +Spd and realized I didn’t know how I 3 turned it before. So I thought that +Hp that I used before helped the strat somehow. But again I didn’t try that hard so perhaps my positioning was just suboptimal. I think you’re right on C3. I originally thought the boss strat was to let Corrin/Gunter fight on PP, EP, PP, needing to hit 2 of 3, then seize with Jakob. iirc Dragon Vein can’t be triggered until turn 3 and there’s still the bridge, that’s a 6 turn strat (if that works). I think the 5 turn strat is Gunter attacks, Jakob attacks with Gunter in astance, then Corrin seizes for the minimum? In my mind, these strats are probably similar in efficiency given the hit rates and chance of success. The latter is also a near-definite reset if whiffing either attack, while the former has some leeway and can retreat if really necessary (if particularly reset-averse). btw does +Spd survive the C4 DV near the boss consistently? It did on my latest run, in 1 try, but I skipped a lot of animations. <_< And Neimi isn’t the best 1-2 range one-rounder in the game. And certainly not one of few with godtier durability. Interesting analysis. My thought here are that Paladin!Jakob and base class!Corrin gives you 2 good combat units, with 8 and 5 move. Cav!Corrin gives you 1 good 7 move unit and a debuffer/staffbot.

As others mentioned, Ninja class has high Spd and Shurikens give +2 so after a few levels Saizou is fine. Setsuna needs to be babied until level 10 for her to do respectable damage but after that she can probably kill something every player phase. Most people probably give their character assessments relative to Corrin/Ryoma/Reina/etc, but I don’t think Birthright (even Lunatic) is so hard that you’ll encounter significant difficulties if you do want to train some others. The thing with Kinu in the maingame is she has relatively low Hp/Str/Def and is a frontline unit. She also shares Weapon Rank with Kaden, but has arguably worse stats, which makes her outclassed. I found this to be the case even with Hinoka!Kinu once, which is some of the highest growth inheritance she can get. Felicia doesn’t help the stat issue. Skill inheritance isn’t really enough. Maybe Kinu can do a mage build, particularly if Felicia is the mother, though she’ll start with E spells and is a fairly generic mage. Horse God makes all mages somewhat useful though. :p And to add: I have to review a bit more, but I think +Hp/Def improve reliability as early as the C2 3-4 turn and C3 5-6 turn. Though maybe others are using more optimized strats. Other random sleep-deprived delirious thoughts. Is it demonstrably better to invest more in Jakob instead of Corrin early on? GK/Paladin!Jakob seems to have some argument against reclassed!Corrin for a while. Tbh I have no idea. >_> Also considering how (iirc) Lunatic works, I suppose technically each player only needs 1 file where RNG is favorable (for at least Corrin) and can then keep playing that file, but I dunno how “lame/cheesy” that is for ltc/speedruns.

Probably so, which is why I like +Spd atm. Though they could also be expected (on average) to survive some situations other assets may not, improving flexibility/reliability later. And given some recent ltc trends…?

-Skl is just too much hit lost throughout the game, imo. Everytime it's sub100 you just leak efficiency like crazy. :\ Leo makes an amazing Dark Flier though probably it’s better for Corrin and servant (somewhat early galeforce) if available. Otherwise, durability does kinda matter for offense/combat since the more enemies engaged or less healing needed are nice advantages to have. Can adopt more aggressive positions and so on. The Spd in Strategist is definitely nice as if using him as more of a glass cannon/nuke on pp, while relying more on Xander/Camilla/Corrin ep. Though often Leo ohkos too with attack stance (or if enemy is chipped + his personal). Also slight amendment to something I said earlier. I forgot only +Hp or +Def can 4 turn chapter 1, so lowesttc will probably use that and "rig" the other stats (but trickier nowadays I suppose with the whole fixed seed thing unless some manipulation is figured out). >_>

Panne’s personal bases and growths are both extremely high so when she gets into a real class (not Taguel), she’s incredibly strong. Wyvern happens to be one of the best classes as well, with high stats all around, 8 move, flight, plus skills that synergize very well (avoid-stack, plus breaker for what “beats” your main weapon, Axes). I consider Lon'qu similar even with lower stats (still reclass to wyvern) since he has a bit easier time getting started at base (C Swords and +10 avo against Plegia's many axes or low hit dark magic) and has better/more consistent skills. For earlygame, feed Chrom as much as possible in Prologue. Hopefully that’s enough to tank C1 on a fort with Frederick’s Pair Up. I seem to remember he could get most of the kills in that chapter. Regardless, feed as much into him during that chapter as well. In C2, tank the first wave on the left mountains. Honestly pretty much the same as Robin-centric earlygame except Chrom is lower leveled (Chrom does have +1 or 2 in a few stats at base which mitigates it a bit). If necessary, just use Frederick a bit more, there’s still plenty of exp after C2. re: No Robin Lunatic+: Hmm, it's interesting to think about. I know there are a few Frederick centric strats that some use to get to the DLC with decent success rates, so you could lean a lot on that the early chapters while trying to feed Chrom (C5 tho...). I would think you'd probably want to go Bows later with Chrom/Lucina and a few children. Perhaps try to get Nosferatu/Sol on a few of them.

I'm not sure L+ is reliably doable with no Robin ( well to a similar consistency level). Has it been done?

Ignoring Robin is fine, in my experience. I did a no-avatar run a while back and basically just fed Chrom the same way early on. It really didn't feel that different from other lunatic runs. Chrom, Panne, or Lon'qu are nice candidates for the early second seals and they or the children can carry later. L+ probably a different story.

Well, many things are possible in the name of the Turncount (and to a different extent, ss Realtime) God. >_> Generally though, I find highly unreliable strats as inelegant as very slow ones, so I think certain small (statistically inspired) concessions are fine. (I’ll draw a line between this and what has been vaguely referred to as “casual efficiency”, in case that comes up) Basically I think +Mag Cavalier is probably correct for conventional ltc and no dlc speedruns as you can reset to your heart’s desire any low Spd runs and for Mag benchmarks. I think the secondary class also matters slightly less since you don’t necessarily have to pair with Jakob for more reliable durability on enemy phase and can build support to buddy seal Wyvern/Dark Mage or something from Belka/Nyx. But does +Mag comfortably double things in Conquest, in terms of easy/quick+reliable clears? I found it doesn’t myself, and I didn’t even use classes with low spd base as Dark/Malig Knight. Averages may say differently (unsure) but unless there’s some points of leeway there’s probably around a 30ish% chance you miss the Spd benchmark which will trash any attempt at efficient/faceroll clears. In practice this probably doesn’t matter because one can use online to buy statboosters or get food or whatever, but the same could be argued for most of the other Corrin setups. ofc Dread Fighters/Dark Falcon, if available, is also kinda steamrolly because of the bases (can even take +Hp/Def for reliability) So eh, that’s why I was leaning +Spd/-Luck as a general recommendation for Nohr, before (mage build, plus 8 move classes later. I suppose I could see +Str Ninja but how's the durability and lategame?). I haven’t played much the past few months though so maybe there’s been new information re: lunatic runs (how superfluous is it, on average?). Maybe late, but gl on your exam too.

Been getting back into Fates a tiny bit. I’m glad this kind of discussion has activity. I agree with most of what Espinosa said though how are people beating Endgame (efficiently) without Zero (Pass) nowadays? Also I could see Felicia/Jakob together if they’re usually Corrin’s pocket unit. Also what Corrin is considered efficient for Nohr? I still lean magey for Hoshido/IK because of Horse God but Nohr is much different (only Horse God in a paralogue iirc). I thought +Mag was terrible because of borderline Spd, but eh rng? (Leo, Xander, maybe Camilla seem to all like speedwings) edit: or I guess, what are the hit rates on draw like? I'm still making my way back to endgame.

Yields are usually scaled for different speeds but iirc musicians are glitched and the 2/3 scaling for quick is applied twice, so you only get 4/9th for each concert tour. This certainly makes things harder. The key to culture victory though is get tourism up quickly which means getting to the Internet tech quickly. The faster you get more tourism, the less enemy culture there is to overcome. Focus on a science game until Public Schools and ideology, then spam archaeologists and bulb to the internet, then airports if necessary. Staff guilds asap (use food trade routes to keep growing as necessary) as you get the techs, Writers on the way to Civil Service, Artists just after Education. Get secularism asap after renaissance, plant 1 scientist, and the save the others to bulb. Again standard science stuff. On lower difficulties below Immortal you can also spam cities with the Sacred Sites reformation plus 2 faith buildings. On all difficulties there's always the option of conquering cultural rivals too. >_>

@BBM: AI is a lot more aggressive if you’re using the mod. I like it because one can’t turtle with no units like usual. Almost as psycho as G&K, consequently, but usually there a reason like land dispute, etc, and there’s some ways to play around it. I’ve been playing a few other games in v4 and there seems to be less random dows/backstabs than before and have had a few peaceful games too (until industrial/modern). Sometimes though this involves “fake” wars while agreeing to team up against or with certain far off AIs. Update time. I admit I’ve been distracted by some other games and life so not totally sure when I can finish. <_< [spoiler=Oda is quite bloodthirsty] 2nd in army, down by 24k in army score. [spoiler=Whittled] Eventually pewpew shot them down. A decent amount of that score was caught up in catapults too, which are fast to clean up with horses. Burned one of Oda’s cities, took 2 others (lots of fish/crabs for growth though no wonders), liberated Kabul. Started to stabilize and grow. Had happiness from city-states and such. [spoiler=ok lizzy] I was thinking of settling down there, but it would have to be coastal for the fish. It would be the only nearby coastal, and England is on the same coast nearby, so that feels unsafe. It turns out Elizabeth was eyeing that area anyways. I decided to settle to the west to fill in the space toward France. I forgot the weird way Tradition finisher works (only applied to 4 cities when the policy is taken, including conquered cities, unlike legalism) so the new city only has a free monument sadly. [spoiler=ok nappy] Unfortunately he dropped a city taking the Furs just before I could settle, but I later got Furs elsewhere (was debating whether to general it). The city still ends up being a nice river/mountain, though happiness is going to contrain the growth for a while. [spoiler=oops] Oh I didn’t actually see that, the AI does tend to drop more academies. That plus Kilimanjaro means I probably should have kept Kabul but eh. Anyways, basically just grew a lot, built lots of stuff. Maybe autopiloted a little too much but oh well. Eventually ran into some happiness problems since England and Portugal were taking my city states. Had to spend a decent amount of gold to keep them, especially since I made some mistakes likes sending the wrong city-states caravans for quests. >_> [spoiler=machu pichu] This really helped. It’s nice for wider empires and to fund upgrades/cs. Sometimes it doesn’t go until later if the AI doesn’t have good mountain cities. Also built Statue of Zeus in Kyoto for a complicated chain of CS quests. Got dyes -> gems -> furs/something for like 6 CS friends/allies. Maybe worth investing a bit into Patronage later if there’s enough culture. [spoiler=Religion Spread mod] I want Ethiopia’s religion (blue on this map, it has Temple happiness and Jesuit Education) and gave him open borders to spread it, but Elizabeth is spamming her pointless religion (vanilla yellowish) on me. Both she and Portugal (brown) took Piety, so their religions are super strong. I suppose it doesn’t help Ethiopia is getting crushed by France. At least there’s some happiness from Gardens, sigh. [spoiler=overview turn 167] Techs: Horseback riding -> Math -> Philosophy -> Education -> Printing Press -> Industrialization Needed Horses for a little boost against Japan’s swordsman. Only built 1 Siege tower, but it did speed up the conquest considerably. Stole with UA a bunch of lower techs and Optics, Japan already had Metal Casting (his capital had a Workshop when I took it). Steel would have been really scary, so it’s good we finished him off in time. Founded the world congress and proposed to embargo Ethiopia for some diplo points. Went for and got Leaning Tower. Engineered Big Ben. Policies: Landed Elite -> Monarchy -> finish Tradition (with Oracle) -> Barracks Culture/Happiness in Honor -> Discipline -> Commerce -> Monument happiness/Workshop happiness/Factory science in Order. Tried for Oracle to get the free aqueducts. It was pretty late and risky, but managed it. This did delay National College by a lot, so it was turn like 110, just before Education when it was done. But it otherwise would have taken ~20 turns to get the finisher. So either spend production on aqueducts for 10 turns of growth before the free ones, or withstand 20 turns of no-aqueduct growth. Both seem inefficient. I probably should have built less units and went philosophy earlier, maybe even worked the Library specialist earlier since it was built so early. But better overkill than failing to beat Japan. Still not terrible tech pace, considering (also had a lot of the lower techs which I usually don’t when going Tradition and toward Education). Though a few runaways are appearing, Portugal took out India while France/Austria teamed up on Ethiopia. Hopefully can deal with France and then Austria/England soon (who doesn’t like me) as they’re nearby, but Portugal is way on the other side of the map. Actually they’re teching really well this particular game, I’ve had a few other demigod games about this pace or slower. Potentially I could have attacked France earlier. I saw he didn’t have very advanced units when I was ending my war with Japan (he actually joined in), but I wasn’t sure how close he was to medieval units, and especially his UU. (if he beelined it, he was close, judging by the number of techs he had and the trade route science) England offered to team up against France so agreed since Gatling timing was around then. Did some preparing and got a few factories up. Build one in 5 turns in the capital and bought 2 more in my newest planted city and Nimrud the guild city. Actually forgot to buy one a turn before capital finished, and Portugal snuck in Autocracy on that turn. Following her into Autocracy would be decent with Mobilization buying + Big Ben, but the happiness policies are pretty far off. Have some roads building to city states to hopefully grab them back, but it’s hard to keep Vilinius and Quebec City from England/Austria and the delay makes the empire very unhappy. Decided to go Order and grab the factory policy fast since a policy was coming. Still don’t have Honor finisher, but so far France doesn’t have too many units so it’s fairly okay. Will like it for the next wars, definitely. Portugal/Austria do have decent tourism which is something to watch for. My culture is okay from Barracks culture and a few great works. Probably should be bulbing writers but I have the slots already from Royal Libraries so eh, feelsbad to not use them. It’s helping a bit to expand culture borders, actually, especially in Japan’s cities. Again a bit too much autopilot so I didn’t even try to time Rationalism in industrial. It’s going to be very delayed since we still need to finish Honor, and went a bit into order first.

Happy new year, all. That sucks. :\ I know the feeling, though I’ve been lucky lately and usually autosave works. In normal bnw Tradition play I don’t build units unless there are massive barb problems or a barb quest. Usually build/buy an archer/spear in that case. Just rely on scouts and starting warrior to steal workers, escort settlers, etc. I usually build settlers at 3 pop unless the timing works out that I’m already almost at 4 pop (cows/bison available, spent extra time on shrine/worker, or pop ruins.). Usually build 2 immediately (unless hammers are amazing, like 4 production tiles in range, and enough workers from steals. In that case just build all 3 settlers right then), then granary/caravans to grow a bit. Buy the last, or build it later after caravans are up and buy the library. Sometimes you won’t have the happiness for the last city so it can be delayed a little bit, it’s better to grow the initial cities with caravans/granary and take that time to get more workers and chop forests/hook more luxes and horses/iron. Typically try to go granary first in satellites. Early food is worth a lot and the ability to feed the cap is very important. There should be time before libraries in this build order, but it depends on production in your cities. Usually Granary first is barely any slower, since you can grow into a few production tiles and plus it’s okay delaying NC for a little bit to grow (instead of stagnate for many turns). If it’s absolutely necessary I’ll build archers in the cap after settlers and go to construction to upgrade instead of buying the library/settler. It obviously depends on the map, sometimes you need earlier archers or triremes to clear barbs. Sometimes you want more workers early to hook up salt. Sometimes not enough good spots for 4 cities (but really should try to fit 4 unless there’s just not enough happiness/trading partners). Etcetc Though I will note on occasion it’s just simpler to play with 2-3 cities, or expand later. It’s just weaker in the sense of less food, production, science, and slower victories. But admittedly, it might be easier if just trying to win on higher difficulties, and it may feel less risky earlygame. In my particular game this draft I had units from Honor so I was pretty set during the expansion phase. Re: Assyria in your game. They very rarely will attack you if they’re at war with someone else. Bit of an AI quirk. Bribe if you have to (probably cheaper than unit maintenance, and don’t waste critical early turns building them). Not sure how much commentary you want on micromanaging. In a bigger picture, I do think internal trade routes (sailing worth the detour, engineering arguable if you have cargos) and workers to hook luxes/horses/iron (later farms. And improve dat salt) are better than happiness buildings. Also buy luxes like Japan’s for 9 gpt if really necessary and you don’t have spares yet. Again units can be skipped if possible, building early granaries is very important to snowball growth. It’s very important to stay happy so what you did is good, these are just minor optimizations (but they can add up). I go for Theology if I think I can get Borobudur, otherwise I usually go for Civil Service first with tradition.

Might run out of good tiles to work (Freedom will be good later). There’s only like 4 fresh water tiles and 2 granary resources? Goddess of the Hunt was a good choice, especially since being Ethiopia guarantees you’ll keep it. Scouts are cheap. ^_^ Yeah if you can buy the library 3 cities can work well, and having friends will help there. I saw you stopped building settlers so maybe you were done expanding for now. Generally, the earlier the cities get planted the better. The reasons why I would stop building settlers are either it’s unsafe to do so, or if preparing for NC. I found this was one of the biggest differences between how I used to play and how people like Acken/HoF players get low/sub 200 in BNW. If comparing your and mine turn 53 (broadly, I know maps are different but I don't think your early tiles are any worse than mine. turns should be somewhat comparable early, not so much later when the nerfs kick in), I have 3 cities/3 workers and they already have/almost have granaries so they're growing fast (Cap has library too. Already 50% more science, and getting pop/sci faster). You have 2 cities and the cap has a granary, and Harar won't get it for a long while if you build Library first. (can ignore happiness/gold/culture because that's mostly CS luck) I value internal trade routes very highly for tradition. 3 food is massive at that point in the game so I build them almost immediately when available. Rough priority is: enough workers to stay happy (usually 1) -> settlers -> granary/caravans -> enough workers -> other stuff. With the mod it’s a bit different since the base food is nerfed to 2 and it’s pretty necessary to build some more units. I do find this arrangement smoother and far better for mixed policy play. Plus there’s less variance wrt to culture ruins for skipping monument or not. I beat up Japan, growing now. Update probably when preparing to attack France. Looking like Gatlings since I have a good number of ranged units still and cheap upgrades from honor. Hopefully pick up an idealogy too. Maybe xbows, but I prefer Civil Service much earlier if going Tradition, plus they do like nothing to France’s Musketeers. If I went complete Honor instead of finishing Tradition they would be the way to go.

I go back and forth actually. Sometimes I get frustrated with AIs double dowing me when all I want to do is build my empire (bribes won’t stop modded ai). But I also get bored pressing next turn with no action. >_> And dat tundra in your start. :p Btw Assyria isn’t always so bad because sometimes he spams his Siege Towers which can’t attack units. Sending Harar a caravan + improving the salt could help it get going. Looking like 2 city NC? @BBM: Elephants don’t require horses, right? Looking forward to seeing how you deal with Japan.

Tradition didn’t get changed much. Just reverted the order of the policies to the last official patch, so you’re not forced to take oligarchy before legalism, and now Landed elite is +15% and Oligarchy gives free walls instead of the ranged strength. Anyways, it seems to be working for me, so maybe try reinstall/clean cache etc? btw Japan is crazy, I'm 2nd in army and he still has 25k more than me (like 40% more army). I probably would have steamrolled if another AI was nearby. But Oda (and Shaka) is like this sometimes. My cities have great food but bad production which is not good for honor. His Discipline Swords take like 10 shots from my composites too so it's hard to fight efficiently. >_> seem to slowly be breaking him though... I like having a little war myself to mix things up and not just sim-city all day. It doesn't work that well in the regular game (turtling is just more optimal) but I enjoyed trying it. In the mod, it's more encouraged, and I find it fun being proactive. Certainly takes some practice compared to the usual though.

(in the mod) With Honor I build them because you get +100% production (double speed) on exp buildings. Also a policy later in Honor gives 2 culture 1 happiness on them. This works out so that if you do full Honor as the starting tree, your satellite cities can skip monuments (go Barracks->food building, I went granary first because I had free monuments from legalism). I usually don’t build them early on with the other trees (or in unmodded play). If doing some early war with Tradition/Liberty, usually units are better. I’ll build them if there’s enough time for midgame wars, which depends on how hammers are looking, what turn do I hit the military tech of interest and how many units can immediately upgrade, etc. They’re usually not worth delaying the attack or having another round of units instead. One of the problems I had when trying to learn to war was trying to have everything “prepared” like exp buildings, heroic epic, etc. But each turn the opponent gets stronger and you lose more of the (potential) military tech advantage. Attacking 10 turns earlier is a lot better than marginally stronger units. Actually I usually try to hit with 5-6 composites around turn 50-55, so this is a little late because I went to Writing. Assyria’s UB is pretty strong so that’s okay, but maybe I should have skipped calendar since I had happiness from city states (though would have less gold for upgrades so eh). No iron also sucks because imo the best honor timing attack is upgraded Swordsman. Later in the game for artillery/planes and stuff you should usually have them, and there should be plenty of time to fit it in.

[spoiler=settings] Level 6 is immortal here (7 is demigod). Everything else standard. I use a few UI mods and Quick Turns in addition to Acken’s. [spoiler=starting location] Nice start, lots of fresh water and mountain. Settled on the Wine for the gold and extra chop/river tile. Scouted around, only Japan nearby. He’s one of the most aggressive AIs by flavor, so this should be interesting. [spoiler=tributes] Tributed a worker from Mogadishu just as they hit 4 pop, then stole another one. Going to stay at war with them and possibly conquer them later as they have Observatory access, Cerro de Potosi and a unique lux. In hindsight maybe I should have tried to conquer it while my units where nearby, but rip diplo in that case and actually I needed units elsewhere. [spoiler=demos] Just showing 2nd in army, even on immortal. Honor in the mod gives you just enough units to do a little tribute, something almost impossible in the normal game without huge sacrifices. Also got a worker from Vancouver, which makes 3 without building any. Now there was a good number of tribute fodder to the west, but they were starting to build units, other Civs pledged them, and there’s this crazy situation. [spoiler=dat value] [spoiler=kreygasm] Ran some units over quickly. [spoiler=Great Library turn 53? okk] Really late, but I wasn’t paying attention so I didn’t try for it. Citywise, Ninevah is on Sugar, it’s a great (Tradition) spot. Settled Nimrud on the coast because I thought Japan’s regional lux was Spices, but it’s actually Crabs. Maybe another city arrangement would be better. btw Nimrud is actually on a cow, it's one of the few bonus resources you can settle on without necessarily losing much (city tile becomes 3 food). Also only 1 pasture resource usually isn't worth the stable, to me. Had so much happiness from city states I wanted to settle another city early, but decided not to underestimate Japan and build units instead. There wasn’t another great spot anyways, some decent coastals, but I probably can’t afford sailing until after the military techs. Maybe a mistake, since work boats are so good now, but eh. Will still need to drop another city sometime, if only to take advantage of the tradition bonuses. [spoiler=state at turn 66] Just upgraded a bunch of units. Kinda late from the detours, so probably want some Horseman and Siege towers too. Japan is already top military at 60k. As long as we hit before Samurai, we should be okay? >_> Capital build order: Scout->Scout->Monument->Warrior->Settler->Settler->Royal Library->Granary->Barracks->units I usually open (at least) double scout now, since Palace has 2 culture and you get your first policy fairly early. I thought about skipping the Monument (thought to try Tradition/Honor mix), but it felt more important to get the Spear/Archer in Honor early for tribute so legalism is kinda late. Not sure if a worker or something would be better however. Warrior was to fill the time when getting to 3 pop and for tribute. Satellite build order: Granary->Barracks->units Standard. I was debating whether to build monuments and try to get Amphitheatres with Legalism but eh. No great pantheon and no chance to go piety if taking both Tradition and Honor so skip shrines. Later with Lhasa as an ally I got god of craftsman for a temp boost. Techs: AH (ruin turn 2) -> Bronze Working -> Writing -> Calendar -> Construction First see if there’s Horses/Iron (barely any). Writing timed well with the Capital BO. Then luxes and army. Probably going to Math for Siege Towers and Horseback riding next. Policies: Tradition -> Honor -> Spear/Archer thingy -> Legalism -> fast Barracks and cheaper upgrades -> probably try to finish Tradition So with the capital spot looking solid with high food in surrounding areas, mixing in some Tradition looked good to me as landed elite got buffed and Monarchy is one of the best happiness policies. Obviously wanted to go Honor since Assyria, so it ended up a little weird in policy choices. Another option would be to finish Honor first then go back to legalism/monarchy for the culture/happiness (probably never finishing Tradition or getting it super late, which just feels inefficient to me). But I just got a few first tier policies for the tribute/early war and decided to try and finish Tradition. This is because I didn’t see an obvious target after Japan so the other war bonuses wouldn’t be as good in the midgame. France is his neighbor, and I’m a bit scared of his 30 strength Musketeers gotten rekted enough times on demigod. Not sure when he’ll get them, but defending and growing (after this first war) feels a bit safer than an offensive war. With the early Great Work and some cultural city states, hopefully Tradition finisher isn’t too delayed.

If you downloaded/subscribed through steam it should update automatically (should say v4) but workshop is often wonky. Clearing the cache usually works, or updating manually can be done by extracting to the mods folder. Acken says it’s save-game compatible. Interesting patch. The biggest change I see is the specialist slot on the library. That early in the game it’s painful to work 0 food, 2 sci tiles, though I suppose you can get early academies. But with the changes to GS, I don’t think it’s worth filling scientist slots all the time (in regular BNW, you can save scientists, so you generally want absolute max GS points). More academies is more science early but less growth/hammers and each is a lost bulb lategame, which might equalize. Hard to say. Probably going to do an Immortal game for the draft to try the patch (usually 10-15 turns slower than demigod, on the last patch, which is still really fast. Easily sub 300 even with the slower lategame). As for Assyria, they now get a free Writer at writing, so early +4 culture, +3 tourism if building the UB. Plus it acts like a Barracks when filled, so double promos very early. Maybe Honor with Siege Tower/Composites? I almost want to attempt Great Library into Ironworking, but it’s probably a bad idea. >_>