(Mafia Sucks) SF Mafia: The Revival - GAME OVER, Town Wins!

[RADicate]

35 minutes ago, Makaze said:

 

 

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH okay bet ty makaze

[Bluedoom]

  

3 minutes ago, RADicate said:

Assuming this is the post in ref (page 18, initial charlie vote) that @Bluedoom was referencing earlier. If I'm wrong myb and please correct.

For the lack of a better way to word it, you're casing of charlie's casing seems decent? I'm pretty sure i either glossed over this post or missed it. 

I think you actually echo one of my charlie notes here I wrote on (one of??????? idr which) charlie post where i mentioned his post being logically sound/making enough sense. 

Anyways rambling. I get the logic bare min which makes me feel better on your charlie vote following up today. The engagement from "you're pushing this action i perceive as NAI" to "explain the scum moti behind it" is basically what i've been doing all day with the charlie being off wagon shiz, so I like that well enough. And I like, Follow you on the second half. Tho for the first half I'd need to reread a bit more around this time to understand the whole "if you are mafia then you are in a good position to case rapier here" so I won't super comment on that part rn. (I have realized my time today is going to be a lot more limited than I wanted it to be unfortunately so this is tonight's homework for me probably).

Its that plus my first post on page 19 where I call him out on his reads:
 

 

On 5/27/2024 at 11:43 AM, Bluedoom said:

I guess, charlie, when you get on, I'd like an explanation for why you don't want to lynch the 5 people you listed. What I can understand from that list is also that you find Prims,Weapons and Snike to be unlikely mafia at this point despite their interactions. Tbh just thinking about this I really think all these points should be directing you at a makaze vote, given that Prims has a makaze read, makaze is voting me, Makaze puts these two of the 5 in the elimination pool and is considering weapons in the elimination pool. A lot of conflict in reads here between you and makaze.

 

I guess my problem is that your reads list on page..14 or 15? where you have 5 people you'd not want to lynch and the only two you're confident in are Rapier and Elieson. That's the kinda list I'd expect a well positioned scum to make. How do you feel about town!j00 voting Refa? Rapier/Makaze pursuits are fine in vaccuum given that they're voting me who you don't want to lynch, but it really feels like you should be voting Makaze here given your reads. What is your read on BBM? He has weapons on his scumlist and and was casing Snike,both of whom you are presumably townreading? I find it hard to believe that the biggest lead besides Rapier here is Elieson. I'm sure there's something to be seen in Boron/Refa/BBM which isn't happening here and looks off to me.

 

 

 

 

[Snike]

2 hours ago, Shinori said:

Part of the only thing that makes me doubt my Dusk read is how easy the push is going/has gone.  But that's also to be expected considering there is likely only like 2 scum left or something.

This scumcount is too low. There's at least 3 IMO.

[Bluedoom]

Just now, Snike said:

This scumcount is too low. There's at least 3 IMO.

11/5 means 3 strikes and you're out, that's very punishing in a revival game. and if its 11/4/1 doubly so, Sk would really fuck our numbers here

[Shinori]

12-4 seems fine with two sources of kills proven to exist.  Imagine a worst case scenario or 

12-4 - Misslynch
11-4 - scum kill + second kill
9-4 - Day 2 - misslynch
8-4 - scum kill + second kill
6-4 - day 3 *YLO

[RADicate]

1 minute ago, Bluedoom said:

  

Its that plus my first post on page 19 where I call him out on his reads:
 

 

 

before i give back with a response on the second half, he did go back and vote makaze and dial in on the slot later? how to do you reconcile that still being scum motivated when the criticism fell to the wayside given later actions?

do you think that post in any way *prompted* their actions with their ego vote lock and dip in eod and all that?

[Snike]

Just now, Bluedoom said:

11/5 means 3 strikes and you're out, that's very punishing in a revival game. and if its 11/4/1 doubly so, Sk would really fuck our numbers here

12/4 means game could theoretically end today. Refa elim into BT godly hijack into scum into Vig on scum into scum lynch. That's too punishing for evils.

[Shinori]

I've kind of come into an idea of misslynches/miss kills equal to the amount of anti-town players basically.

So 4 scum would mean 4 misslynch/misskills or so ideally, which seems fair/balanced in the scenario.

[RADicate]

11/5 is brutal ye and probably just not the case.

esp considering the joat flip from mafia ye?

probably like 11/3/1 or 12/4 and mafia has a bit of extra KP or smthn

[Shinori]

Just now, Snike said:

12/4 means game could theoretically end today. Refa elim into BT godly hijack into scum into Vig on scum into scum lynch. That's too punishing for evils.

11/5 goes like just as bad potentially

11-5 - day 1 - misslynch
10-5 - scum kill + second kill
8-5 - day 2 *YLO -Misslynch
7-5 - scum kill + second kill

5-5 game is over day 3 morning.

[Sunwoo]

I meant to do more before I went to bed, but something (not mafia-related) badly fucked up my nerves while I was still rereading the thread and I couldn't focus anymore >_>

11/5 seems like a pretty bad ratio, if you ask me. If we don't have SK, it's got to be 12/4. If there is an SK ... ehhh, 12/3/1 feels too punishingly low for scum on a return game, and 11/4/1 feels too swingy. Don't really think there's a point in looking for SK unless we get three kills tonight/eliminate all the mafia and the game's still going.

Rapier's vote on Weapons is ... I mean, I understand the basis of it even if I disagree. Feels more like a pressure vote than a strong conviction "this person is scum" vote, but I appreciate that he's trying to do something other than complacently waiting for a lynch to happen?

I'm going to have to reread so many people when I get back in a couple of hours.

[Bluedoom]

1 minute ago, RADicate said:

before i give back with a response on the second half, he did go back and vote makaze and dial in on the slot later? how to do you reconcile that still being scum motivated when the criticism fell to the wayside given later actions?

do you think that post in any way *prompted* their actions with their ego vote lock and dip in eod and all that?

they didn't really consider voting makaze when they responded to me just two pages after this post, the vote hung on rapier for 24 hours or so. Scum motivation at eod is clearly trying to find a favourable lynch at deadline, the main scum motivation is obvsly that refa being your second scumread, why aren't you consolidating on him? Like I'd have given them townie points if they had voted makaze when they replied to me on page 20/21, but they didn't.(you can even see that it feels like they're buulding a strong case on makaze in the responses to me), but voting him at eod doesn't really mean anything from a town perspective and if anything looks bad given that refa flipped scum.
 

[RADicate]

40 minutes ago, Ichigo said:

What about their posting today makes you think they are town?

gm ichigo i somehow have zero opinions about you and forgot you were in the game but wsg homie

anyways. its bad tone reading like i said earlier.

Really the only baseline for it that's bothering me is given my interactions with duskfall in other various social games (Noc, eimm, etc) the tone just reads super genuine fmpov but also they could just be really good at faking it.

I've spoken to duskfall more than literally anyone else here itt thread probably (except maybe bluedoom) and its largely just the wording of their posts thats telling me "they believe what they're saying. I really don't know how to word it beyond that. 

tommy's def the type to do some shiz like "i dont wanna fuck up yall's revival game by throwing out inexoribant walls" and get demotivated by "you're def dying today homie so just play to town wincon". just, the interactions ring very tommy??????????

Sorry, ik its a lame answer and probably unhelpful.

I haven't played noc with them in ages tho so I could just be getting swindled. But that combined with the "not rlly being bothered by the off vote from charlie" is the tldr of my apprehensions on the wagon. Tho again im not sitting here hard defending them and don't wanna be represented as such 👍

[Snike]

Just now, Shinori said:

11/5 goes like just as bad potentially

11-5 - day 1 - misslynch
10-5 - scum kill + second kill
8-5 - day 2 *YLO -Misslynch
7-5 - scum kill + second kill

5-5 game is over day 3 morning.

I think 11/4/1 would be more likely than 11/5 but like if it's 11/3/1 we run into the same issue where the game could be over after 1 night phase which again, strikes me as insanity. Even 2-night phases is better.

There's also the potential for like 10/4/2 or 10/3/3 but I don't think anyone's ready for those conversations yet.

Feels like I'm playing Opinions Miller this game.

[Bluedoom]

The thing is, I feel like if duskfall is town here he just tries hard to fight off his lynch because his competitive spirit is too strong to let it happen lol

[Bluedoom]

Like its not a strong point for me, Rad, but I've talked a lot of mafia with dusk, and his ego would def dislike being mislynched here lol, if we're going by meta

[RADicate]

4 minutes ago, Bluedoom said:

The thing is, I feel like if duskfall is town here he just tries hard to fight off his lynch because his competitive spirit is too strong to let it happen lol

i agree he's hyper competitive, but i feel like that ego would also flag if he was mafia and he'd wanna play?????????????????? the fold fmpov feels more likely coming from a town pov from my knowledge of how tommy's head works but (quote inc)

 

 

3 minutes ago, Bluedoom said:

Like its not a strong point for me, Rad, but I've talked a lot of mafia with dusk, and his ego would def dislike being mislynched here lol, if we're going by meta

if you've actually had this convo with him i think i'm content folding on that particular point because it was kind of a sticking point for me. we haven't actually talked much mafia and i'm going based on what i know of his tone/competitive nature if that makes sense. but again an actual convo with him regarding it is probably more valuable than my read of it if that makessense

[RADicate]

12 minutes ago, Bluedoom said:

they didn't really consider voting makaze when they responded to me just two pages after this post, the vote hung on rapier for 24 hours or so. Scum motivation at eod is clearly trying to find a favourable lynch at deadline, the main scum motivation is obvsly that refa being your second scumread, why aren't you consolidating on him? Like I'd have given them townie points if they had voted makaze when they replied to me on page 20/21, but they didn't.(you can even see that it feels like they're buulding a strong case on makaze in the responses to me), but voting him at eod doesn't really mean anything from a town perspective and if anything looks bad given that refa flipped scum.
 

they did throw another small shot at makaze in their response to your post after (regarding the reads from that slot being largely low impact/ineffectual). i wouldn't really call it "building a strong case on them" but they did add another thing to the metaphorical... bucket? i dont have a metaphor.

i think saying they were building a strong case in response might be a bit misrepresentative but i get it (and do agree that they should've been consolidating as I ceded earlier). 

ty for response on dat guy

...

i also planned for this post to include the quote from the second half but that didn't really happen thx sf so i'll brb with another post. if you guys have me in the game you'll have to deal with the spamposting it seems. 

[RADicate]

On 5/27/2024 at 2:13 AM, Bluedoom said:

I guess, charlie, when you get on, I'd like an explanation for why you don't want to lynch the 5 people you listed. What I can understand from that list is also that you find Prims,Weapons and Snike to be unlikely mafia at this point despite their interactions. Tbh just thinking about this I really think all these points should be directing you at a makaze vote, given that Prims has a makaze read, makaze is voting me, Makaze puts these two of the 5 in the elimination pool and is considering weapons in the elimination pool. A lot of conflict in reads here between you and makaze.

 

I guess my problem is that your reads list on page..14 or 15? where you have 5 people you'd not want to lynch and the only two you're confident in are Rapier and Elieson. That's the kinda list I'd expect a well positioned scum to make. How do you feel about town!j00 voting Refa? Rapier/Makaze pursuits are fine in vaccuum given that they're voting me who you don't want to lynch, but it really feels like you should be voting Makaze here given your reads. What is your read on BBM? He has weapons on his scumlist and and was casing Snike,both of whom you are presumably townreading? I find it hard to believe that the biggest lead besides Rapier here is Elieson. I'm sure there's something to be seen in Boron/Refa/BBM which isn't happening here and looks off to me.

 

 

 

quote reaquired.

 

the charlie/maka reads were def in conflict building up and quietly the only other scumread beyond the rapier read being actively discussed being my slot (which had like, one post at the time???? does elie have a history of scum!lurk, idk elie meta), is kinda meh. And ig there's probably some logical inconsistency to: 

going from elie/rapier to maka>refa>all else including elie rapier? I really need to go thru and fix my iso script but i cba rn. I have irl shiz to do.

i still don't particualrly feel better about your slots early refa interactions but i cba to case them rn cuz irl shiz but i do feel considerably better about your charlie casing and your posting today

the fact i'm being logical convinced by someone i have bad pings on isn't lost on me but also idt i care really at this exact moment in time

[Rapier]

4 hours ago, BBM said:

imo if SB flips scum rapier is prolly scum and we chalk d1 scum disorganization up to multiple scum wagons that made it so that scum didn't have a solid strategy and got caught in a no man's land between consolidating on a counter wagon and bussing

This associative lists feels like it came out of nowhere and lacks elaboration. What do you mean?

4 hours ago, WeaponsofMassConstruction said:

These questions are helpful to my understanding of the game. Often times they aren’t that important and maybe not that easy to answer so I’m like 🤷‍♂️ if I don’t get a response. But they are about things that bother me and responses do help me understand people’s mindsets wrt to things. You can ask me about any specific question I’ve asked and I can tell you about my mindset at the time and what a response would’ve changed/did change. Also I think you’ve taken some of my joke posts and just ran with them, I am not being particularly lazy about the game, it is just that solving the game at the depth that I would like would require more energy and effort than I truly have, and so many items get mentally cut from the “I will think about this seriously” list. On top of this, figuring out how to explain my thought process is a whole different beast altogether, one that I can not really explain why is, but can identify that you as a think out loud player would have a very difficult time identifying with. As such, a good amount of my play this game has gone towards self-pres, as that is the one thing I can be certain about and know will help advance village wincon 

I can understand this level of procrastination (thinking is hard), but honestly it's better to interact and have shallow reads than no reads at all, because then at least people will get associative reads from you which will help them judge your alignment. Otherwise, players who stay in limbo feel just there and don't help town at all.

Anything you can do is good and better than floating on the thread.

3 hours ago, BBM said:

Hmm that's a fair point j00. I'll think about it a bit more but I find rapier's weapons vote here really bad. It just feels like rapier knows weapons is town but is trying to specifically disregard it to justify a case on other grounds

I think there's a spectrum of possibilities as to what happened with scum d1 but I think charlie leaving his vote on makaze and refa not even counter voting at the end implies at least some disorganization.

Ok, voting doesn't mean I want to lynch someone, and in Weapons' case I literally emphasised I wanted to pressure him into speaking.

I didn't see we only had 5 hours left lol I'm not confident enough for a Weapons lynch and by PoE I'm still between SB and Shinori, in that order. Marth's point about SB's endgame voting priority makes sense to me. I think "the disorganized scum due to role shenanigans" trail of thought is circumstancial and distracting to base anything off it yet.

Fine with a SB lynch

Unvote @WeaponsofMassConstruction

[Duskfall98]

19 hours ago, Makaze said:

this part was interesting so please explain the percivale flags

Percivale came into page 22 and kind of pushed forward a vote on weapons, while also saying he was not confident weapon is mafia so just wanted to see to analyse the wagon. He kind of suggested weapon was town being pushed by mafia which rings of being opportunistic in a world that weapon is ever mafia.

In it he kinda of telegraphs a refa vote, but also doesnt hard commit which at the same time reads as a potential partner setting up a bus if he needs too, now that he sees his partner has a good chance of dying. 

[Duskfall98]

19 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

Generally iffy interactions with Refa, could still work as Cam's scum buddy, and not being on either end-of-the-day wagons in combination with Refa interactions looks like a slot trying to avoid lynching their scum buddy. Also, they would want to avoid being on a hypothetical town Weapons' wagon at the end of the day too.

Also, I read all the speculations about a "lost wolf" or whatever. I don't really think it's helping us figure out who scum is so I'm just going to assume that the scum know who each other are unless proven otherwise.

I don't think the slot is incredibly towny, but I don't think it was scummy enough to become such a consensus vote by a huge margin. If charlie had been mafia, its just a weird decision to vote on the vanity wagon. If you are afraid of saving your partner you probably just vote your partner in that moment, or vote weapon to save. The werid world of not saving but also not trying to save your partner is really not a world that exists for mafia, its more an unsure town perspective.

[Duskfall98]

19 hours ago, BBM said:

Using EiMM as an acronym being a scumslip is a huge reach lol. I'm also not active in the community but I still know the acronym and am on the server and the full name is so long.

In terms of referring to old games it's worth remembering that all our roles are based on past games and so old games are going to be on people's minds more.

I guess like, our PoE pools don't actually seem that different (obviously swapping ourselves) + you're a lot less confident about Marth and somewhat less confident on j00? So I'm a bit confused.

"Scum could have made bad plays etc etc" but I think it really can't be emphasized how disastrous d1 scum lynches are for scum and how much even a single extra day phase of refa being alive would have warped this game. If refa is alive right now instead of weapons, sure he's probably the major wagon but the game looks a lot more like d1 confusion with rapier Marth and Makaze all still being possible targets, and sb/duskfall if he's scum for example would be nowhere near the top scumread. They could have maybe done a strongman or something n1 too. Nobody would be doing these massive Poe pools. So people say stuff like "Hmm mafia wouldn't be so obvious" but in reality there's a huge incentive to just push the agenda forward and then blame it on confusion later

@Duskfall98 I don't really understand your read prioritization and it doesn't seem very consistent. I see you referring to when people talked about Refa throughout the day but then your final conclusions don't really take that into account very much? Like 3/4 of your final scummiest reads voted refa over weapons.

I am more concerned with the original reads, I addressed some of my thoughts about voters in the catch up already but I assin more credit to people who shade refa early and stick to it rather than people who catch on after and potentially get boxed into such a read after saying it.

[Duskfall98]

17 hours ago, WeaponsofMassConstruction said:

Mm, don't think I'm seeing enough from dusk to want to move off. @Duskfall98how do you read Rapier/Boron as consistently gamesolving every post but not Bluedoom? That's like the number one thing I'm picking up off of him. Relatedly, thanks Makaze for sharing your reasoning. It would make sense then why you'd be scumreading me as well. If I have a question, it's what town pings did you get from SB that are more indicative than the town pings you got from my slot?

I don't think bluedoom solved anywhere near as hard no?

I didn't try read SB because I know they are town, its not really possible for me anymore sorry.

[Duskfall98]

16 hours ago, Shinori said:

SK hunting can come later, pointless right now I feel.

@Duskfall98When you wake up could you expand on your makaze scum read considering their massive push for Refa probably being one of the only reasons a refa lynch really happened > weapons or rapier lynch.

I think makaze's early worldview seemed thrown out and throughout the game they seem like their reads are surface level and less thoughtful than a lot of other players. In the catchup they had both towny and scummy moment but overall compared to any other player makaze is the one who seems to decide what their read is and have the play catch up, which is what mafia often does.

Competitively town usually has the thoughts and the reads follow the thoughts. The way makaze treated my slot when I first joined seemed the most scummy too since a lot of people were voting me but telling me not to catch up, goes a step further and could potentially be ensuring that the free miselim goes through.