IE is definitely not safe to use now.

[Superbus]

Why does Blacken always get the good threads first? :(

Everyone makes this out to be something that is indicative of Internet Explorer being fucked forever. One vulnerability. ONE.

Let me tell you all something: every browser has vulnerabilities. And every browser has critical vulnerabilities. If someone decided to exploit some of Firefox's or Opera's worst vulnerabilities, everyone that uses those browsers would be FUCKED with a capital FUCK. And don't get me started on Chrome.

Internet Explorer is no less or more secure than any other browser on the market. This vulnerability was already patched. But of course, everyone here just spews the same bullshit FUD that they hear on message boards from people with handles like "tuxhumpr69" and "micro$h1t_sux". Predictably, no one knows what the fuck they're talking about.

Web browsers are a matter of personal preference. Nothing more, nothing less. I PREFER Firefox. That doesn't mean it's "better" or "worse" than IE, Opera, Chrome or even Safari. Yes, I know some browsers perform better in some benchmark tests than others (I don't know where Ed's getting his stats; the benchmarks I've read show FF3 being significantly better than IE7), but believe me when I say that the differences are usually so insignificant that it doesn't matter.

[Blacken]

If IE8 can run on a single-core 1.4GHz processer and 512MB RAM as well as Opera can then I'll see what it has to offer. If it is going to take hours to load and grind to halt as soon as you do anything than its power to shit bricks will be worthless for me.

That's a special case (and a fairly irrelevant one, to be honest); new browsers can take advantage of the presumed new hardware. That machine isn't even up to XP SP2's minimum specs, is it?

the benchmarks I've read show FF3 being significantly better than IE7

Raw, yes. Add in ABP and the rest, not so much. IE adblock-based stuff can actually hook directly into DOM manip and is a lot faster. The rationale being that it's probably better to test your browser in a state somebody might actually want to use. Edited December 19, 2008 by Blacken

[Superbus]

Are you advocating third party IE based adblocking code? Wouldn't that classify as a hack that affects stability?

[Blacken]

Are you advocating third party IE based adblocking code? Wouldn't that classify as a hack that affects stability?

You mean like ABP is a third-party extension for Firefox? There are hooks quite clearly available in IE to write extensions, just like Firefox. (Only better--you don't have to write them in fucking JavaScript.)

[Florete]

I'm too lazy to download and learn how to use FireFox or Chrome or whatever. I'm used to IE, so I think I'll just stick with it.

[SmartRutter7]

That's funny. IE7 is consistently faster than Firefox by virtually all benchmarks and on par with Webkit or Opera. IE8 is faster than that (and also supports by-tab process segmentation, a feature which only Google Chrome implements). That's slow?

You're calling IE bloated? You're telling people Opera is good, and you're calling IE bloated? You're stumping for a browser that has a fucking BitTorrent client built into it and you're calling IE bloated? Are you intentionally stupid, or is this ignorance?

Newsflash--everything's got security holes. There have been advisories out on Opera and Firefox in the past, and will be again.

I did say IE was slow, but did i ever say firefox was faster? No. I know that they both can be slow at times, which is why i tend to use Opera most of the time. Even if IE is on par, Opera loads quicker for me than IE does. And if Opera is bloated as you say, it's not like other bloated applications that load slowly as a result of it. The only reason i sometimes use firefox is for some of it's add-ons.

Perhaps "bloated" wasn't the best word to decribe IE then... what i was getting at is that Opera loads faster.

Way to state the obvious. I know everything has security holes, but looking at the amount of known unpatched security vulnerabilites, IE by far has the largest amount of any web browser.

Of course IE is the prime target for people to try to find security holes in, due to its larger market share. But Opera works fast enough for me, and quite honestly i can't stand IE7's layout.

Personally, i think the layout matters to me a bit more than if it may be slightly faster. Perhaps we should all try using a command-line web browser that has a minimalist user interface just so it can be faster? Really, i think more people would rather choose a web browser with an average speed that has a decent user interface.

[Superbus]

I did say IE was slow, but did i ever say firefox was faster? No. I know that they both can be slow at times, which is why i tend to use Opera most of the time. Even if IE is on par, Opera loads quicker for me than IE does. And if Opera is bloated as you say, it's not like other bloated applications that load slowly as a result of it. The only reason i sometimes use firefox is for some of it's add-ons.

Perhaps "bloated" wasn't the best word to decribe IE then... what i was getting at is that Opera loads faster.

Way to state the obvious. I know everything has security holes, but looking at the amount of known unpatched security vulnerabilites, IE by far has the largest amount of any web browser.

Of course IE is the prime target for people to try to find security holes in, due to its larger market share. But Opera works fast enough for me, and quite honestly i can't stand IE7's layout.

Personally, i think the layout matters to me a bit more than if it may be slightly faster. Perhaps we should all try using a command-line web browser that has a minimalist user interface just so it can be faster? Really, i think more people would rather choose a web browser with an average speed that has a decent user interface.

Using Wikipedia as a source? Goodbye. Thanks for playing, now let the adults talk. Have a juice box.

You mean like ABP is a third-party extension for Firefox? There are hooks quite clearly available in IE to write extensions, just like Firefox. (Only better--you don't have to write them in fucking JavaScript.)

The hooks are not nearly as open as Firefox's, which is intended for third party applications. It's debatable as to whether writing the code in Javascript or not is that big a deal - likely it is, but IANAP - but you have to go farther to code around IE's interface than Firefox's. That's the main point I'm making; you have to run around IE a bit.

Hopefully, that'll be easier in IE8.

[Meteor]

I choose not to use IE mostly because of its horrible CSS support. I like my CSS.

[SmartRutter7]

Using Wikipedia as a source? Goodbye. Thanks for playing, now let the adults talk. Have a juice box.

I hate juice. <_<

I choose not to use IE mostly because of its horrible CSS support. I like my CSS.

yeah i've noticed that problem before myself.

[Blacken]

The hooks are not nearly as open as Firefox's, which is intended for third party applications. It's debatable as to whether writing the code in Javascript or not is that big a deal - likely it is, but IANAP - but you have to go farther to code around IE's interface than Firefox's. That's the main point I'm making; you have to run around IE a bit.

Er...the access hooks are done in virtually the same way; the only real difference is that instead of XPCOM/xulrunner you can use COM or .NET for IE extensions.

I choose not to use IE mostly because of its horrible CSS support. I like my CSS.

IE8's passes ACID3, not that the ACID tests actually mean anything. IE7's CSS support is fine for most everything you'll run into, so long as you don't specify quirks mode when writing your pages.

[Superbus]

Ed, you'll have to forgive me for not wanking a shot or two over being able to write in .NET. I know you love it, but to me it's just more proprietary garbage. Is the difference really that noted? Will any open-source base be comparable?

And I've heard that IE8 is not going to display certain pages - usually those with depreciated code - properly. What's the story there? I know the IE8 beta is out, but I do all my beta testing at work, where I'm currently using a Linux laptop (which reminds me, I have to give OpenSuSE 11.1 a shot). I assume you've played with it?

[Agro]

I'm too lazy to download and learn how to use FireFox or Chrome or whatever. I'm used to IE, so I think I'll just stick with it.

It's "the same, but better" if you know what I mean.

[Blacken]

Ed, you'll have to forgive me for not wanking a shot or two over being able to write in .NET. I know you love it, but to me it's just more proprietary garbage.

No it's not.

Is the difference really that noted?

It's a lot easier to work with, that's for sure.

Will any open-source base be comparable?

Not terribly well, no. Open source development tools for higher-level languages still kind of suck, unless you're talking Java (and using Java for browser extensions would be retarded).

And I've heard that IE8 is not going to display certain pages - usually those with depreciated code - properly.What's the story there?

Pages without a conformant doctype will be rendered in quirks mode, while the default will be standard mode and render correctly. If you suck at CSS and are too lazy to fix your shit, enable quirks mode; otherwise, it'll act much more like other browsers.

I know the IE8 beta is out, but I do all my beta testing at work, where I'm currently using a Linux laptop

Sounds like a personal problem. Reformats solve that one. :D

(which reminds me, I have to give OpenSuSE 11.1 a shot). I assume you've played with it?

Extensively. I'm not joking when I say that it makes Firefox look sad and pathetic.

[Palsy Brown]

Google Chrome ftw.

This, but I agree mostly because I'm the kind of person that has 20 tabs open at once, I am given to lurking, one might say.

Edited December 30, 2008 by disco★PRINCE

[YokaiKnight]

Using Wikipedia as a source? Goodbye. Thanks for playing, now let the adults talk. Have a juice box.

Are Secunia and SecurityFocus also considered Baby's First Source?

[Blacken]

Secunia makes its money off making grandiose predictions. I've never even heard of SecurityFirst, which makes me have to go with "pretty shit, that."

[Destiny Hero]

Shit....

But I'm not using anything else. FireFox is gay and Chrome just plain blows.

[Loki Laufeyson]

^use Opera! Opera = <3

i actually had to get Mozilla due to the fact my parents really dont know how to use any other browser...i really am not a firefox fan...but oh well..

IE has never been safe..its evil...

[Superbus]

BTW, for all the amateurs in the room - meaning, anyone not named Superbus or Blacken, since we get paid real-life money to know this shit - the issue has long been fixed.

Edited December 31, 2008 by Superbus

[Der Kommissar]

Don't tell them that, you'll cut off a free source of hilarity.