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Intoner Two Newbie

Intoner Two

Posted
Posted

I have enough depression, excuse me for not wanting to dwell on our pointless existences and instead rather attempting to maintain a sense of hope for all, maybe you may not agree, but sometimes believing in something, and knowing someone believes in you, well, it's all -I- need to live

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lolDeath Newbie

lolDeath

Posted
Posted (edited)

Oh fuck it, I knew this was coming.

1. You did not, Bus did with his little fantasy newtype bit that made me completely lose interest in anything he may have to say. And last night in chat and today you don't say anything without company present, I am seeing a connection.

2. Question it all you like, assumptions about strangers online are fun for some. I have no interest in making a huge post because I doubt it would have much effect. I am sure you are more capable in this debate than I because I do not care much for it.

3. You can use facts that people can deny, I can use opinions that people can disagree with. Both ways can work and fail, neither of us are unable to debate while staying on subject. I worded that amazingly poorly, what I meant was if you are unable to debate without all this "flare". I don't care if you think you are hot shit, I am just here to have some discussions.

Rhaan, our existence doesn't really have to be pointless you know. Life is life, simple as that, enjoy the few years you have because it will never come again.

Edited by Death
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Blacken Newbie

Blacken

Posted
Posted (edited)
I have enough depression, excuse me for not wanting to dwell on our pointless existences and instead rather attempting to maintain a sense of hope for all,
There's plenty to live for that doesn't require a mathematical impossibility. Hope is fine. Dwelling on stupid hope is pathetic.

EDIT: And if you consider our existences "pointless," you yourself are fucked. There's nothing pointless about life, but it is what you make of it. Giving up before you've given it a fair try is a joke.

maybe you may not agree, but sometimes believing in something, and knowing someone believes in you, well, it's all -I- need to live
Living by Final Fantasy quotes. Yeesh. Edited by Blacken
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Blacken Newbie

Blacken

Posted
Posted
Oh fuck it, I knew this was coming.

1. You did not, Bus did with his little fantasy newtype bit that made me completely lose interest in anything he may have to say. And last night in chat and today you don't say anything without company present, I am seeing a connection.

Aaaaaaaactually, in chat (before your silly little twats of chatops decided to ban me for teeing off on somebody who decided to lie about me), I was told of the fuckshittery going on. Others wandered in for a chuckle. :)
2. Question it all you like, assumptions about strangers online are fun for some. I have no interest in making a huge post because I doubt it would have much effect. I am sure you are more capable in this debate than I because I do not care much for it.
Huge post? I can do it in one sentence: the known size of the universe exceeds the distance in any direction we could go from Earth before the universe finishes its contractionary cycle.

There, that wasn't so hard, was it?

3. You can use facts that people can deny, I can use opinions that people can disagree with. Both ways can work and fail, neither of us are unable to debate while staying on subject. I worded that amazingly poorly, what I meant was if you are unable to debate without all this "flare". I don't care if you think you are hot shit, I am just here to have some discussions.
(I assume you mean "flair.")

And...er...no. One way is in-fucking-controvertible, the other is just the wankery that seems to be de rigeur here. Do not attempt to insult me by equating the two.

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Intoner Two Newbie

Intoner Two

Posted
Posted
There's plenty to live for that doesn't require a mathematical impossibility. Hope is fine. Dwelling on stupid hope is pathetic.

Living by Final Fantasy quotes. Yeesh.

I would appreciate you not call me stupid, I don't even know you and never once made such a statement against your level of comprehension; the latter is NOT a quote, it's exactly what I felt right now, I apologize for potential misconceptions as to it's validity, I however think that you sir are being considerably rude to a person who never was directly talking to you in the first place, please stop quoting and then berating my opinions which I assure, were never directed at you

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Blacken Newbie

Blacken

Posted
Posted
I would appreciate you not call me stupid, I don't even know you and never once made such a statement against your level of comprehension; the latter is NOT a quote, it's exactly what I felt right now, I apologize for potential misconceptions as to it's validity, I however think that you sir are being considerably rude to a person who never was directly talking to you in the first place, please stop quoting and then berating my opinions which I assure, were never directed at you
If you don't want your opinions analyzed, dissected, and, when wrong, called out, why are you posting on a message board?

(And if it wasn't a quote, it might as well be. It's the same melodramatic mindset.)

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lolDeath Newbie

lolDeath

Posted
Posted

See, this I enjoy, thank you.

1. Nothing to do with me, not my problem either way. It was a funny 30 seconds.

2. People believe in God, facts can and are denied by some. I am not saying that you are wrong or that your way is worse than mine, just different. If this website had more logical individuals I would have taken another approach and I am sure you see where I am going with this.

3. I've mixed those damned words up from age 10, thanks for the correction. Like I said, they are just different, you can think one is better all you want.

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Blacken Newbie

Blacken

Posted
Posted
See, this I enjoy, thank you.

1. Nothing to do with me, not my problem either way. It was a funny 30 seconds.

I live to entertain. When people realize this, they generally stop bitchfesting.
2. People believe in God, facts can and are denied by some. I am not saying that you are wrong or that your way is worse than mine, just different. If this website had more logical individuals I would have taken another approach and I am sure you see where I am going with this.
One should not lower one's standards for poor reasons, sir.
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Dies Mori Newbie

Dies Mori

Posted
Posted
Aaaaaaaactually, in chat (before your silly little twats of chatops decided to ban me for teeing off on somebody who decided to lie about me), I was told of the fuckshittery going on. Others wandered in for a chuckle. smile.gif

In other words, you just agreed with what he said, through and through.

Huge post? I can do it in one sentence: the known size of the universe exceeds the distance in any direction we could go from Earth before the universe finishes its contractionary cycle.

The OP of this particular point confuses the fuck out of me; exactly how does a speed of 3 million km/s prevent scouring of the known universe? Just a tidbit of clarification.

And...er...no. One way is in-fucking-controvertible, the other is just the wankery that seems to be de rigeur here. Do not attempt to insult me by equating the two.

Incontrovertible my fucking leg. Death's logic isn't quite something you can counter with seemingly useless statistics completely opposite to the point and force him to go "mea culpa" on no fucking grounds whatsoever. In fact, other than simply treating your speed of light wankery as an addition, you choose to place your opinion above his, depsite the fact they are both equally understandable and credible (you see, much to your chagrin, fact and opinion are supposed to hand in hand, without either, the alternate wouldn't exist).

And then we'll all move into space! And evolve into NEWTYPES! We believe in hope and the human spirit that is morphing into us!

Seriously. Just because the clue train left the station and left you tearfully waving at it from the station, doesn't mean you have to be sad about it. sad.gif

Congratulations, you made a sarcastic interpretation of what you said without single handedly backing it up, instead opting to tell the other to get a clue when you have none yourself. No one can win in opinion vs. opinion, Bus.

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Paradox Newbie

Paradox

Posted
Posted (edited)

Hay guys, my worst fear is internet conflict.

Ohshi-

I would appreciate you not call me stupid, I don't even know you and never once made such a statement against your level of comprehension; the latter is NOT a quote, it's exactly what I felt right now, I apologize for potential misconceptions as to it's validity, I however think that you sir are being considerably rude to a person who never was directly talking to you in the first place, please stop quoting and then berating my opinions which I assure, were never directed at you

Oh but dearie, that's all sorts of bullshit. You can't declare yourself immune to criticism just because you decide to air your opinions at no one in particular.

It's simple logic really, we are already destroying this planet with no known alternative to run to, how in the fuck could we possibly last long enough to explore everything?

As Blacken pointed out, that's not really simple logic as much as complicated and debatable opinion, but I understand the point you're trying to make.

Plus the eco-hippie doom-and-gloom. It's like you've got a checklist of being wrong, and you're hitting every box.

Hey now, you know perfectly well that 'The liberal hippie douchebags are saying it, thus it's stupid!' (or the Ad Gore argument) is a logical fallacy, even if it holds true about 99.9% of the time.

EDIT: though I guess your point is that it's on the pathway to suck, so perhaps my point is irrelevant.

Edited by Paradox
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lolDeath Newbie

lolDeath

Posted
Posted
As Blacken pointed out, that's not really simple logic as much as complicated and debatable opinion, but I understand the point you're trying to make.

Would you like to be the first person ever to back that up with an argument of any strength? I am not saying that I am right by any means, opinions are just that, but I actually want someone to try and show me a flaw in my opinion.

I wouldn't worry too much about conflict if I were you, apparently Blacken and myself are not 8 so I think we'll live.

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Blacken Newbie

Blacken

Posted
Posted (edited)

Sigh. And it had gotten so pleasant, too.

The OP of this particular point confuses the fuck out of me; exactly how does a speed of 3 million km/s prevent scouring of the known universe? Just a tidbit of clarification.
Alright, look. The sphere of the observable universe is around 900,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (9 x 10^26) meters in diameter; we'll use this as the "known universe" posited, even though it's probable that the universe is larger than that. Space is more or less flat, three-dimensional geometrically speaking, so I'll shave the calculations a bit and not account for weirdnesses in the flatness of space-time; they're small enough to be rounding errors. This gives us an area of about 4 x 10^80 cubic meters of space. This is, naturally, a fucking enormous amount.

Now's where the blatant speculation and breaking of sanity comes in. Assume we have ships, all capable of traveling at a toasted asshair short of speed c; as such I will just use c rounded to 300,000,000 m/s in my calculations even though that isn't possible. (The energy required to get beyond about .1c for a human-capable spacecraft would be spectacularly mindboggling, requiring most of the energy of an entire Type I civilization--something like 4 x 10^16 or 10^17 watts--and it just goes up-up-up from there.)

At lightspeed, you can't see shit; time dilation and the porthole effect essentially compress everything into a tiny-ass area due to mathematics I don't understand in enough detail to coherently explain; as I recall you can read a decent layman's description of it in Sagan's Cosmos. But I'll be generous and say that you can, at any given moment, effectively view one kilometer in any direction (10^3 meters)--this number sounds low but likely isn't, given that you are moving at three million meters per second; recording and processing requires just a little bit of time, don't you think? Anyway, the math for sliding spheres gets annoying, so I'll abstract it a bit and assume that you're covering an area the size of a cylinder 1 kilometer in diameter and three million klicks tall. In other words, a cylinder that is about 2.34 * 10^10 cubic meters in size.

(4 x 10^80) / (2.34 * 10^9) = 1.71 x 10^71 seconds

Okay. So we've got a total of 1.71 x 10^71 ship-seconds, seconds of mutually exclusive travel for each of our magical impossible ships. As far as I'm concerned (and quanta, our resident physics nerd, will probably back me up on this), the oscillatory universe theory makes no fucking sense whatsoever, so for shits and giggles we'll assume the universe has a heat death end to it. That's a long way off, about 10^19 seconds off. But it sure as fuck isn't 10^71 seconds off.

In reality, of course, any hypothetical explorers would run out of usable go-juice (both human, in the form of food, and shipwise, in the form of propellant, whatever) long before then, even at relativistic velocities--orders of magnitude earlier than 10^19 seconds, making me incredibly suspicious of the idea that there would be enough usable juice in the entire observable universe to power this investigatory journey, ever--but just to humor the broken idea even further, I will discount that for now. So, yes, it is technically possible, under those stipulations... if you have enough ships to bring that 10^71 individual-ship-seconds number down a bit. That is, a lot. Say you're willing to give a billion years to each of your magical ships. A billion years is about 3.16 x 10^16 seconds. So you would need

(1.71 x 10^71) ship-seconds / (3.16 x 10^16) seconds = 5.41 x 10^54 ships

Okay. So you need 5.41 x 10^54 ships. That's only 5,410,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 ships, right? Totally doable... if you forget that the observable universe has a total mass of less than 4 x 10^55 grams! Unless you have a way to make matter out of absolutely nothing (and I will go a long fucking way with this game to see if it is at all possible, but I won't go there), your ships--assuming you convert everything in the fucking galaxy, including every star and all the fucking people, to structural mass--will need to mass:

(4 x 10^55) grams / (5.41 x 10^54) ships = 7.394 grams / ship

...buuuuuuuut wait! I haven't played the ace up my sleeve. Like in the ant on a rubber rope problem, you have to consider that the universe is expanding too. And assuming the optimum of 1.71 x 10^71 seconds of mutually exclusive travel for our magical impossible ship, all we need is a few orders of magnitude of size increase in the next twelve billion years to make it mathematically impossible even under our current crazy suppositions!

I shall now point out that the universe has grown from a singularity, total volume zero, to the observable universe, total volume 4 x 10^80, in 13.8 billion years (about 4.35 x 10^17 seconds). The universe grows on all sides at a geometric rate. Let's assume something like 1.01x growth per billion years from now until heat death (which, while I have no numbers to back it up, strikes me as probably being idiotically small). There are 10,000,000 (10^7) billion-year periods between now and 10^19, aka heat death, aka what I'm saying is the Stop Sign Of The Universe. The universe's expansion rate, assuming a 1.01x rate per billion years, can thus be summed up with the following equation (the result of "x" being its size at heat death, using my very slipshod, very back-of-the-napkin, probably-erring-on-the-side-of-too-little calculations):

x = (4 * 10^80) * (1.01)^(10^7)

x = (4 * 10^80) * 5.47 * 10^43213

x = 2.19 * 10^81 * 10^43213

y = x / (4 * 10^80)

y = (2.19 * 10^81) / (4 * 10^80) * 10^43213

y = 5.48 * 10^43213

So assuming they truck on till heat death occurs, the universe will have increased in size by 5.48 * 10^43213 times (the value of "y"). This, ladies and gentlemen, is why compound interest will fuck you in the end. Or, for those who need a visual of this gargantuan number, the universe will have increased in size

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times. Keep in mind that that gargantuan number isn't the size of the universe, in cubic meters. It's the number you multiply the current size of the universe by to get that number. And let's not forget: that's assuming the universe as it stands is the size of the observed universe, which is very much unlikely (the universe is likely quite a bit larger than what we can theoretically observe with light). So that's actually a very, very low-end estimate.

DOES ANYONE WANT TO PRETEND THAT THEY CAN HIT THIS MOVING TARGET? ANYBODY AT ALL?

Jesus tapdancing christ. When I say something is mathematically impossible, I fucking well mean it's mathematically impossible. I'm not quanta, but my numbers above are within a few orders of magnitude and even chopping forty decimal places off my total time-it-would-take is still fucking impossible.

---

Incontrovertible my fucking leg. Death's logic isn't quite something you can counter with seemingly useless statistics completely opposite to the point and force him to go "mea culpa" on no fucking grounds whatsoever. In fact, other than simply treating your speed of light wankery as an addition, you choose to place your opinion above his, depsite the fact they are both equally understandable and credible (you see, much to your chagrin, fact and opinion are supposed to hand in hand, without either, the alternate wouldn't exist).
Excuse me, sir, are you dumb? There's a difference between an opinion and an informed analysis, and the two are not the same fucking thing. Go read over my mathematically backed statement and see if that has any fucking place being compared to "well we might wreck our planet, LOL!".

Sit the hell down, sir.

Edited by Blacken
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Blacken Newbie

Blacken

Posted
Posted
Your condescending sarcasm regarding my opinion is not helping your case. As opposed to trying to insult me why don't you just address whatever flaw you see in my opinion? We were doing so well.
I was talking to the guy who thought he had the chops to bitch at me, it has nothing to do with you.
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lolDeath Newbie

lolDeath

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Posted

Just because it looks like a taunt to me does not mean I am offended by it. I don't see how I am looking for ways to do anything when it is pretty simple, you said it, I offered you a chance to actually work that big brain on trying to tear down my opinion, and it looks like you have declined.

Not exactly the hugest deal either way, I have just never seen much point in putting all of these cute little quips in a post if you are trying to make a point. To each his own.

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Blacken Newbie

Blacken

Posted
Posted (edited)
Just because it looks like a taunt to me does not mean I am offended by it. I don't see how I am looking for ways to do anything when it is pretty simple, you said it, I offered you a chance to actually work that big brain on trying to tear down my opinion, and it looks like you have declined.
I just spent an hour demolishing one of your "opinions". I don't really have the energy right now to put the screws to the next. That said, my point was to illustrate the difference between your vaguely held, largely contentless idea and my very mathematically backed analysis. Which I did.
Not exactly the hugest deal either way, I have just never seen much point in putting all of these cute little quips in a post if you are trying to make a point. To each his own.
Because they are exactly that: quips. Humor. I post to entertain as well as inform. Edited by Blacken
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Blacken Newbie

Blacken

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You didn't even mention my opinion, you just proved something that I agreed with in the first place.
I wasn't proving the point to you. Like I said, I have no issues with you. I was proving it to the asshat who came in trying to sound tough and SLAP DOWN BLACKEN AND BUS!!!1111.
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