OMG it's a tier list

[Narga_Rocks]

1) Narga was probably the one who made the moves.

2) Gatrie is below the hawks.

It is Narga. Go read the first post. It says at the bottom that Narga_Rocks was the guy that edited it, four days ago.

He just has no faith. Or lacks certain knowledge of forum mechanics, I guess.

And yeah, Gatrie is below. Gatrie(T) is above. I did this since GJ whines about trying to get Gatrie to 23 speed before 3-4 in the first place. Try that complaint when he's only one away and the next sound you'll hear will be laughter. If he made it above them due to availability differences while ORKOing and never dying, that hasn't exactly changed where Gatrie(T) is concerned. It can be argued, I suppose, but it's not as easy as Gatrie(N).

I'll make more changes later. But...couldn't soren37 post so I can see his sig (if he hasn't changed it) again?

Edited October 12, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[nflchamp]

He just has no faith. Or lacks certain knowledge of forum mechanics, I guess.

I stopped looking that closely at the first post of this thread ages ago.

And yeah, Gatrie is below. Gatrie(T) is above. I did this since GJ whines about trying to get Gatrie to 23 speed before 3-4 in the first place. Try that complaint when he's only one away and the next sound you'll hear will be laughter. If he made it above them due to availability differences while ORKOing and never dying, that hasn't exactly changed where Gatrie(T) is concerned. It can be argued, I suppose, but it's not as easy as Gatrie(N).

I'll make more changes later. But...couldn't soren37 post so I can see his sig (if he hasn't changed it) again?

Why don't you just look for a post by soren37.

[Narga_Rocks]

Why don't you just look for a post by soren37.

That works. Also his "about me" page works, since that has sigs.

[Zkirsche]

It is Narga. Go read the first post. It says at the bottom that Narga_Rocks was the guy that edited it, four days ago.

Well, then the thanks goes to Narga, I guess.

He just has no faith. Or lacks certain knowledge of forum mechanics, I guess.

If you meant that I had no faith in you, thats untrue, but it seemed like RFoF was the more enthuastic one about changing it, so I assumed it was her.

And yeah, Gatrie is below. Gatrie(T) is above. I did this since GJ whines about trying to get Gatrie to 23 speed before 3-4 in the first place. Try that complaint when he's only one away and the next sound you'll hear will be laughter. If he made it above them due to availability differences while ORKOing and never dying, that hasn't exactly changed where Gatrie(T) is concerned. It can be argued, I suppose, but it's not as easy as Gatrie(N).

Yeah, I saw Gatrie and then stopped reading, sorry :/.

Edited October 13, 2010 by Zwiebel

[Joerachi]

I'm sorry ^_^ I meant 1-7 the chapter where Tormod, Muarim, and Vika are recruited.

You mean the chapter where Jill takes a Movement Penalty?

[Anouleth]

You mean the chapter where Jill takes a Movement Penalty?

Jill is still important for ferrying in 1-7, since her picking up Micaiah and cantoing allows Volug to move his maximum movement and pick up Micaiah on turn 1.

[Florete]

I'm beginning to wonder why Kurth isn't lower. I could see him dropping below Bastian or Lehran, but does anyone know any specific uses for Night Tide? Like, places where it will legitimately help?

[RNG Princess]

he can be right next to Micaiah or the heron the whole time

too bad he's scared of the long ranged tome wielding sages on 4-1-E

move him to bottom tier :3 (ok maybe not)

Edited November 12, 2010 by Queen_Elincia

[Narga_Rocks]

I'm beginning to wonder why Kurth isn't lower. I could see him dropping below Bastian or Lehran, but does anyone know any specific uses for Night Tide? Like, places where it will legitimately help?

I could definitely see Kurth dropping. Top of Low is much to high. You could say that it is not low enough.

Though, depending on how we want to look at things, Kurth will at least be deployed so > Renning could be reasonable. Though if we want to at least consider the possibility of deployment for some units, Renning is obviously not as bad as actually trying to make Kurth do things in 4-E.

Gareth, Sanaki, and Bastian definitely need to go > Renning if we want to be serious about "Renning will never be sent to 4-E because he's always inferior".

[Florete]

I could definitely see Kurth dropping. Top of Low is much to high. You could say that it is not low enough.

Though, depending on how we want to look at things, Kurth will at least be deployed so > Renning could be reasonable. Though if we want to at least consider the possibility of deployment for some units, Renning is obviously not as bad as actually trying to make Kurth do things in 4-E.

Gareth, Sanaki, and Bastian definitely need to go > Renning if we want to be serious about "Renning will never be sent to 4-E because he's always inferior".

Renning might stand to be lower anyway, not because he won't ever be deployed, but because he comes with a cost. I'd say both him and Kurth could definitely drop below Gareth and Sanaki for starters.

[Anouleth]

I could definitely see Kurth dropping. Top of Low is much to high. You could say that it is not low enough.

Though, depending on how we want to look at things, Kurth will at least be deployed so > Renning could be reasonable. Though if we want to at least consider the possibility of deployment for some units, Renning is obviously not as bad as actually trying to make Kurth do things in 4-E.

Gareth, Sanaki, and Bastian definitely need to go > Renning if we want to be serious about "Renning will never be sent to 4-E because he's always inferior".

Is he? 29AS is enough to double all the Axe Generals on the left hand side of the map, and if we still have a Hammer, he can 1-round them. Although I suppose he is still taking up a slot.

Also, if Kurth is deployed and does nothing (which is my general experience of him), that is not better than not being deployed at all. If anything, they would be equal.

[Narga_Rocks]

Is he? 29AS is enough to double all the Axe Generals on the left hand side of the map, and if we still have a Hammer, he can 1-round them. Although I suppose he is still taking up a slot.

That's the point. I said "always inferior", as in you'll easily be able to supply 10 units that make him look bad. And he doesn't just lose to them, he loses by a lot.

Also, if Kurth is deployed and does nothing (which is my general experience of him), that is not better than not being deployed at all. If anything, they would be equal.

Yeah, Kurth tends to do almost nothing. His Night Tide is unneeded in 4-E-5 simply because you can survive all the necessary attacks for the 2 turns it takes to win. The extra 5 doesn't help anyone. Even if you don't win until turn 3, Ashera's single target magic attack can be survived by Gareth if he's on wardwood or has a +7 res from pure water (it's not like he attacks) or the ward staff (what, is Micaiah going to attack?).

Kurth's use, like many other things, depends on what we are even doing here. If you are 1 turning 4-E-2, 3, and 4 then Kurth is useless there. His use would come down to any time you want a little extra def/res in 4-E-1, but to do help someone facing 1 range attacks he'd need to be exposed to 2 range and that could cause problems. While it's true that I generally just hide Kurth in a corner I'm not 100% sure that it's impossible to take advantage of his Night Tide. If he so much as cards something or breathes on something or reduces/eliminates a COD then he's helped.

Edited November 12, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[eclipse]

So for the rest of us mortals that take more than a couple of turns on the rest of the chapters. . .how useful is Kurth?

[Florete]

So for the rest of us mortals that take more than a couple of turns on the rest of the chapters. . .how useful is Kurth?

That's my problem. You don't even need all the royals to have a pretty durable team, so +5 Def/Res is extremely situational and his combat might as well be worthless. Best utility I can see for him is blocking Dragons and providing defense for a few turns in 4-E-3, since there I can actually see it being useful.

[Narga_Rocks]

That's my problem. You don't even need all the royals to have a pretty durable team, so +5 Def/Res is extremely situational and his combat might as well be worthless. Best utility I can see for him is blocking Dragons and providing defense for a few turns in 4-E-3, since there I can actually see it being useful.

Well, the thing is, I love routing. Really I do. I don't finish 4-E-2 or 4-E-3 until everything is dead. 4-E-4 as well. But I've never really had good reason to use Kurth like that. I've never really thought "gee, I wish I had +5 def/res for this guy". Even if we aren't playing to 1 turn all those maps, he's still not all that useful.

He definitely shouldn't be at the top of low. But where to put him?

[Florete]

He definitely shouldn't be at the top of low. But where to put him?

I'd say both him and Kurth could definitely drop below Gareth and Sanaki for starters.

That's what I'd suggest.

[Narga_Rocks]

He definitely shouldn't be at the top of low. But where to put him?

I'd say both him and Kurth could definitely drop below Gareth and Sanaki for starters.

That's what I'd suggest.

If nobody says anything for a while, or if they state their agreement, I'll do that much. But the bolded is why I asked the question even though you'd already made that post.

[Anouleth]

Yeah, Kurth tends to do almost nothing. His Night Tide is unneeded in 4-E-5 simply because you can survive all the necessary attacks for the 2 turns it takes to win. The extra 5 doesn't help anyone. Even if you don't win until turn 3, Ashera's single target magic attack can be survived by Gareth if he's on wardwood or has a +7 res from pure water (it's not like he attacks) or the ward staff (what, is Micaiah going to attack?).

Kurth's use, like many other things, depends on what we are even doing here. If you are 1 turning 4-E-2, 3, and 4 then Kurth is useless there. His use would come down to any time you want a little extra def/res in 4-E-1, but to do help someone facing 1 range attacks he'd need to be exposed to 2 range and that could cause problems. While it's true that I generally just hide Kurth in a corner I'm not 100% sure that it's impossible to take advantage of his Night Tide. If he so much as cards something or breathes on something or reduces/eliminates a COD then he's helped.

Well, this is it. If we're going to assume a team full of characters that can beat Renning, there's no reason not to assume a team that can trivialise 4-E-2/3/4 and probably 4-E-1 as well. Although I would like to state that I'd rather have Renning in 4-E-1 than Stefan or Volke.

[Narga_Rocks]

Well, this is it. If we're going to assume a team full of characters that can beat Renning, there's no reason not to assume a team that can trivialise 4-E-2/3/4 and probably 4-E-1 as well. Although I would like to state that I'd rather have Renning in 4-E-1 than Stefan or Volke.

9 move and Axe General killing? Perhaps.

[RNG Princess]

well Kurth can help out Sothe or Oliver if you bring Oliver to endgame.

Edited November 12, 2010 by Queen_Elincia

[Florete]

well Kurth can help out Sothe or Oliver if you bring Oliver to endgame.

Why would we do that?

Oh, and I just noticed I got post #6,666.

[Narga_Rocks]

Oh, and I just noticed I got post #6,666.

That all depends on whether or not you are able to see invisible posts. As far as I'm concerned, I got 6666.

Edited November 13, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[Anouleth]

You can make invisible posts?

[Narga_Rocks]

You can make invisible posts?

Unapproved/Invisible. Call it what you want. They don't affect the #posts for you guys but they do for me.

[RNG Princess]

Why would we do that?

Oh, and I just noticed I got post #6,666.

Or the heron/Sanaki/Micaiah can do with his big shieldyness ^_^

actually he's only got 1 map of servitude unless he can do anything in 4-E-5

You guys are assuming efficiency and the maps like 4-E-2/3/4 are safer and easier finished in 1 turn.

Poor Kurth I give him paragon so can do something but he never could unless I really slow down for him.