OMG it's a tier list

[Shadow Mir]

Thats what i'm trying to explain ^^'

ughhh I'm horrible at explainin things QQ

but yea some people are a little overrated in this list ^^' Aran is just one of them, Brom gets left behind too, and I'd consider Sanaki over Lethe. Doesn't Lethe tink in 2-E? I know she's useless by part 3.

I actually tried to push for Sanaki > Lethe once, but it was a no go...

[Junkhead]

Thing is, Lethe can actually clear Mages of the path at 2-2 so that Lucia can go passed faster. Just that actually helps you. Sanaki just hits very hard, and then needs to be protected when units like Haar and Jill are stomping the map.

[Colonel M]

Also, I believe we're overdue for Haar > Ike

THERE IS A GOD OUT THERE!

*Me kisses ground*.

I will never doubt again.

[Florete]

*Whistles*

Hello? Narga? Anyone? We gonna get this ball rolling?

[RNG Princess]

I have one more argument ^^' I'm still not convinced on Astrid vs Kyza so I wont post it

but Callil's use is more situational. She can meteor but you can BEXP Haar/give him speedwings on 2-E and easily get short axedropable skill (with short axe), kill boss, and get energy drop in 5 turns. I don't understand how she is above Soren. I mean alot of the arguments contain availability and Soren beats hers.

Edited April 2, 2011 by Queen_Elincia

[Colonel M]

Soren's bigger issue is that he does little to nothing with said availabilty. I guess it could be debateable, but I think Calill's still the winner unless we assume to seriously train Soren.

I also PM'd Narga asking about the situation and, if he was busy, that I could take it over for him (if temporary).

Edited April 2, 2011 by Colonel M

[Florete]

I'd rather not create a new topic, especially if only temporarily. I can make any necessary edits.

EDIT: Haar > Ike

Aran to top of Mid.

Anything else? I think there was stuff for Edward up and Pelleas down.

Edited April 2, 2011 by Red Fox of Fire

[Colonel M]

I'd rather not create a new topic, especially if only temporarily. I can make any necessary edits.

You could do what you guys did with the Oujay thread. Though it may be a bit different from the Smogon boards we simply merge the OP and the new "owner" and put the topic by the new owner instead.

EDIT: Haar > Ike

Aran to top of Mid.

Anything else? I think there was stuff for Edward up and Pelleas down.

I might have to do an actual argument but Jill up might also be possible given the results of Int's and other's playthroughs (note: I realize I was Def-blessed with Jill).

[Junkhead]

Aran to top of Mid.

8)

My efforts were not wasted!

[Narga_Rocks]

You could do what you guys did with the Oujay thread. Though it may be a bit different from the Smogon boards we simply merge the OP and the new "owner" and put the topic by the new owner instead.

Sorry, but I think you joined after this thread started. It's not possible to put you as first. We could put Interceptor in first, and there are probably a few other people that could go there as well. Just not you. The "owner" is always the first poster on this site.

I might have to do an actual argument but Jill up might also be possible given the results of Int's and other's playthroughs (note: I realize I was Def-blessed with Jill).

Make the arguments. Since RF did some changes while I was busy helping a friend with something, I'm not sure if there is anything else I'm supposed to do now.

[Colonel M]

Sorry, but I think you joined after this thread started. It's not possible to put you as first. We could put Interceptor in first, and there are probably a few other people that could go there as well. Just not you. The "owner" is always the first poster on this site.

...Weird. *Shrugs*.

Okay, we'll do baby steps. Jill > Nephenee.

Jill has less availability than Nephenee (Jill has 9 chapters, Nephenee has 14); however, Jill has a greater impact on her team than Nephenee does. For starters, Jill can Rescue drop units around. This is a pretty big advantage since she can do Rescue-drop missions such as:

- Carrying units around in 1-6-1

- Ferrying Tauroneo in 1-6-2 for 2 Turn completion

- Help carry units up in 1-E

- Can ferry Burger King in 3-6

- Can ferry a unit somewhere in the middle in 4-P

- Can ferry a unit to the middle in 4-3

All of these tasks that Nephenee fails to do due to her lack of mount. Speaking of that, Canto adds to the possibilities since she can set herself up for Vigors in 4-P and 4-3 easily. It also can help in 1-E but... "eh". All of these duties Jill does saves turns while Nephenee only saves turns in her Part 2 chapters:

- 2-1 with Brom

- Some of 2-2, though Lucia, Mordy, Lethe, and Nealuchi help too.

After that, she's pretty much there in the Greil Mercenaries. She can do a few duties, but being Mia-lite isn't as great as it's made out to be. She can use the Brave Lance and Horseslayer, but lacking a mount has a few wonky effects. For example, mounts are the main reason 3-2, 3-3, 3-4, 3-5, 3-9, and 3-11 are easy to complete (note: mounts here include flying, as otherwise 3-11 would take a bit longer). While Nephenee helps in the routs after being trained in instances such as 3-9 and 3-11, in other cases she's just "there", partially for self-improvement. She does okay after being trained in Part 4, but she brings little to the table on top of it in Endgame aside from 2 Range and a good Spd cap. Still, Jill also has Canto and slightly higher Mt to counteract that.

tl;dr version: Jill is a bit more clutch for the DB than Nephenee is clutch for the GMs. Jill also helps the Dawn Brigade greatly in Part 3 while self-improving herself with Paragon and Canto / flight, then helping in 3-13 with killing Ike via Daemon Card. Pretty hard for Nephenee to compare for non-starters.

If there needs to be stat comparisons and what not, I'll provide them. But not now. I'm mainly opening the spectrum or just help fanning the flames of disaster.

[Fenrir]

what about jill>zihark?

i would say she should be at bottom of high.

[Colonel M]

what about jill>zihark?

i would say she should be at bottom of high.

Maybe, but I'm trying baby steps at a time. Zihark is probably better to be in Upper Mid anyway.

[Anouleth]

I'm reluctant to support Jill since without some combination of transfers and stat boosters, her combat is very underwhelming, but it's also true of Nephenee to a certain extent, who also has movement issues in certain parts of Part 3. I suppose, that like most cross-team comparisons, I find it difficult to care that much.

[Colonel M]

I'm reluctant to support Jill since without some combination of transfers and stat boosters, her combat is very underwhelming, but it's also true of Nephenee to a certain extent, who also has movement issues in certain parts of Part 3. I suppose, that like most cross-team comparisons, I find it difficult to care that much.

Most of her stat boosters don't have many better places. At best it can go to Volug, but Volug also lacks 2 range in Part 4 where it helps with Routs. I don't specifically think she needs the Dracoshield either since Nolan makes better use of it early on and at least throughout Part 3. She doesn't need Transfers to be a complete badass; she still has her mount and Canto to make up for it.

[Florete]

Sorry, but I think you joined after this thread started. It's not possible to put you as first. We could put Interceptor in first, and there are probably a few other people that could go there as well. Just not you. The "owner" is always the first poster on this site.

Well, more specifically, posts are always sorted in chronological order. So he'd need a post preferably from before this topic was started so we wouldn't have to move a number of early posts elsewhere. I think that's what you meant, just clarifying.

And I can agree to Jill > Nephenee. Red ponytail ftw.

[Caliban of Sycorax]

Not to mention in Jill's joining chapter she can just use an Iron Axe/Hand Axe to eliminate the AS loss, but Neph is stuck with the super slower Steel Greatlance and gets a shitty Javelin.

[Narga_Rocks]

Well, more specifically, posts are always sorted in chronological order. So he'd need a post preferably from before this topic was started so we wouldn't have to move a number of early posts elsewhere. I think that's what you meant, just clarifying.

Yeah, basically. thanks for clarifying as I couldn't come up with a better way to put it than I used.

[dondon151]

Not to mention in Jill's joining chapter she can just use an Iron Axe/Hand Axe to eliminate the AS loss, but Neph is stuck with the super slower Steel Greatlance and gets a shitty Javelin.

Most DB members want max MT iron forges because they're cheap and are overall superior to unforged steels.

[nflchamp]

Most of her stat boosters don't have many better places. At best it can go to Volug, but Volug also lacks 2 range in Part 4 where it helps with Routs. I don't specifically think she needs the Dracoshield either since Nolan makes better use of it early on and at least throughout Part 3. She doesn't need Transfers to be a complete badass; she still has her mount and Canto to make up for it.

Jill would take a Seraph Robe before a Dracoshield, anyways.

[RNG Princess]

I agree with Colonel M, Past Part 2 not using Nephy means we have Oscar who can use horseslayer just as good and has better move. Nephy's move is also less of a virtue for alot of Part 3 maps. Where as if we don't use Jill we are probably going to take very long for 1-6-2 and her ferrying is certainly helpful for 1-E. Not to mention her flight being among the best virtues in the game.

Soren's bigger issue is that he does little to nothing with said availabilty. I guess it could be debateable, but I think Calill's still the winner unless we assume to seriously train Soren.

Callil can be helpful ^^' and I agree he beats her if he's used seriously. Anyway what I'm considering is that she's only existant for 2 chapters and he's in more. Not sure how he is revolutionary but he targets res like she does, and he could be useful for 3-P and 3-1 which is equivalent to her amount ^^'. I'm thinking the contribution is weighed differently though, its probably that ^^'.

Another thing is I remember bringing up Astrid(T) vs Kyza ages ago and the argument was that Kyza using speedwings is beating her. I dont understand how it works for certain characters but not others. Why can't Soren take resources/BEXPcrown and beat Callil the same way Kyza is beating Astrid(T)?

Edited April 3, 2011 by Queen_Elincia

[Junkhead]

Callil barely does anything in 2-E. She's just there to kill Ludveck if Haar misses his 75~% Hit while doubling with a Hammer. Not actually such a big deal when you realize he's 1-2-turning it, meaning you won't be sad if you restart because you miss. Haar wants that CEXP, anyway. Callil, in an effecient standpoint, can't really make good enough use of it. Then in 3-9 I think she chips the boss.

Besides, while Callil is falling to 3HKO's on most enemies, Soren is 2HKO'ing a few enemies, and then assures 2HKO's on most enemies really damn quick. Which is what an FE10 mage should at least be able to do, if he isn't doubling. Callil can't double reliably either unless she's hilariously overleveled and then Crowned.

[dondon151]

Callil barely does anything in 2-E. She's just there to kill Ludveck if Haar misses his 75~% Hit while doubling with a Hammer.

If you're 3 turning 2-E, Haar has best bio when he faces Ludveck, which is 93 hit at base.

[Junkhead]

Yeah, that's best. Now we can get the Energy Drop and the Dracoshield altogether.

[Shadow Mir]

If you're 3 turning 2-E, Haar has best bio when he faces Ludveck, which is 93 hit at base.

IIRC, Haar's bio wave doesn't go into Best or Worst.