OMG it's a tier list

[Anouleth]

Why shouldn't they be worrying about Generals later on? 3-8 and 3-10 both have Generals that need to be killed, and I don't believe either of them 2HKO with forged Steels.

If it's really necessary, a 27STR Oscar can 4HKO with the Brave Lance. If you recruit Zihark over as another item mule, you also have the option of Brave Bow, but he doesn't 4HKO Axe Generals and has to rely on a ~42% chance to proc Sol. In addition, he 3HKOes with a Steel Greatlance or Steel forge, so he also has the option of taking Adept and having a ~60% chance to ORKO with either Adept or Sol.

I want to see what Oscar with Adept can do.

Probably waste it. Oscar T doesn't have a lot of trouble 2HKOing if you cap off his levels with BEXP and give him the 3-6 Crown. I guess he doesn't 2HKO with Javelin forges, so there's that.

Edited July 24, 2011 by Anouleth

[Florete]

EDIT: @ RFOF

Oscar/Mia/Neph seem like the 3 best options.

Can't believe I forgot Neph, wow. To be honest, I'm not even sure we've actually discussed where that Drop might be the best.

Tibarn Ulki would be mega overkill for sure

But i like Oscar(N) getting it the most. Neph's probly getting BEXP from P2 to smooth out her problems, and Mia has adept/critical.

Not in HM. P2 BEXP isn't nearly as abundant in HM as in NM (obviously), and it really isn't enough to solve her problems completely.

I want to see what Oscar with Adept can do.

You're free to look into it.

[Fenrir]

Can't believe I forgot Neph, wow. To be honest, I'm not even sure we've actually discussed where that Drop might be the best.

Not in HM. P2 BEXP isn't nearly as abundant in HM as in NM (obviously), and it really isn't enough to solve her problems completely.

I went and dug up the old resource topic. Neph is the choice there.

Yeah, sorry my head's in NM atm... She should however be able to wield her great lance when she joins the mercs iirc. & if given the drop, is Oscar(N) > Neph(N)

Edited July 25, 2011 by Fenrir

[Anouleth]

I went and dug up the old resource topic. Neph is the choice there.

Yeah, sorry my head's in NM atm... She should however be able to wield her great lance when she joins the mercs iirc. & if given the drop, is Oscar(N) > Neph(N)

Oscar:

Much stronger

Moves further

More durable

Nephenee:

Slightly faster initially, speed lead increases over time but if Oscar is Crowned, her speed lead doesn't really do much

Doesn't need to eat a Crown halfway through Part 3 to be competitive but will need to eat one eventually

Is easier to get to requisite doubling speed for 4-4

[Florete]

I went and dug up the old resource topic. Neph is the choice there.

Yeah, sorry my head's in NM atm... She should however be able to wield her great lance when she joins the mercs iirc. & if given the drop, is Oscar(N) > Neph(N)

I never said she couldn't get it, I said it doesn't solve her problems like it does in NM. HM has effectively a quarter of the BEXP NM does, and it shows.

Oscar is just really underwhelming in HM, to be honest. He never doubles reliably with his base Spd, rate of growth due to base level, and Spd cap ( healso isn't high enough on the list of candidates for a Wing), and his Str often isn't good enough to do significant damage, either. I remember using him in the first HM draft (and as we know, units in drafts tend to get more experience shoved into them) and I almost wished I had drafted someone else because he was always just subpar. Having a horse is nice and all, but we don't see Fiona and Astrid going anywhere.

Nephenee can at least double pretty reliably and caps 3 stats around Oscar's base level, making for good BEXP slowplaying.

Oscar (T), however, I can see being much more satisfying.

[Fenrir]

EDIT: @ FOX

Oscar will still struggle from the speed issues, but an energy drops helps his strength out. And after 4-5 levels he's capped his speed meaning he can take the crown in time for 3-8. Another 9 movement unit with 2 range should help knock off a good amount of turns on 3-8/3-10.

Oscar:

Much stronger

Moves further

More durable

Nephenee:

Slightly faster initially, speed lead increases over time but if Oscar is Crowned, her speed lead doesn't really do much

Doesn't need to eat a Crown halfway through Part 3 to be competitive but will need to eat one eventually

Is easier to get to requisite doubling speed for 4-4

Really the only advantage Nephenee holds is speed. The competition for the 3-6 crown is Gatrie, and i think Oscar is better than he is.

Also, if Oscar(n) is taking the 3-6 crown I would like to say Boyd > Gatrie.

Edited July 25, 2011 by Fenrir

[-Cynthia-]

All units are only competing with (N) units for resources, not (T) units.

[Fenrir]

All units are only competing with (N) units for resources, not (T) units.

I actually meant to say Oscar(n)... thanks for the correction haha.

[Florete]

EDIT: @ FOX

Oscar will still struggle from the speed issues, but an energy drops helps his strength out. And after 4-5 levels he's capped his speed meaning he can take the crown in time for 3-8. Another 9 movement unit with 2 range should help knock off a good amount of turns on 3-8/3-10.

There is no way in which either Energy Drop is entitled to him, though. And I honestly doubt, with the existence of Titania and Haar, that he's doing a significantly different job from someone like Mia or Nephenee in 3-8 and 3-10. Plus, the fact that he needs the Crown mostly to uncap his Spd is a problem, as his Spd will still be problematic in later maps. I'd honestly prefer giving it to Nephenee for +3 Str/Def and a Skl% mastery, as well as enough Spd to be doubling just about every enemy she faces (possibly even SMs, though I haven't looked at HM SM Spd in a while). Or, like, Boyd for similar purposes.

But yeah, throwing an Energy Drop and Crown just to have an inferior Titania when she and Haar should already be wiping most maps clean themselves and needing only a little help doesn't sound like ideal use of the items to me.

[dondon151]

But yeah, throwing an Energy Drop and Crown just to have an inferior Titania when she and Haar should already be wiping most maps clean themselves and needing only a little help doesn't sound like ideal use of the items to me.

So... would you rather use them on no one?

[Fenrir]

There is no way in which either Energy Drop is entitled to him, though. And I honestly doubt, with the existence of Titania and Haar, that he's doing a significantly different job from someone like Mia or Nephenee in 3-8 and 3-10. Plus, the fact that he needs the Crown mostly to uncap his Spd is a problem, as his Spd will still be problematic in later maps. I'd honestly prefer giving it to Nephenee for +3 Str/Def and a Skl% mastery, as well as enough Spd to be doubling just about every enemy she faces (possibly even SMs, though I haven't looked at HM SM Spd in a while). Or, like, Boyd for similar purposes.

But yeah, throwing an Energy Drop and Crown just to have an inferior Titania when she and Haar should already be wiping most maps clean themselves and needing only a little help doesn't sound like ideal use of the items to me.

The drop isn't guaranteed to go to him i guess, but I like him over neph. He should be doing way better than neph/mia on these stages, +2 move, on these giant maps, and he's got more 2range options than Mia. Boyd and Neph have level disadvantages to Oscar, and i think your underestimating the +2 movement with canto.

So... would you rather use them on no one?

I think she was meaning to give them to neph, but i could be wrong.

Something else i forgot to mention is Oscar's earth affinity. This makes him way way way more durable than mia/neph when they don't get Ike's support

[Florete]

So... would you rather use them on no one?

I'd honestly prefer giving it to Nephenee for +3 Str/Def and a Skl% mastery, as well as enough Spd to be doubling just about every enemy she faces (possibly even SMs, though I haven't looked at HM SM Spd in a while). Or, like, Boyd for similar purposes.

You can also add in more innate crit for Nephenee.

As for the Drop, there are multiple candidates, like Ulki and Ranulf and Nephenee and Mia. Not saying Oscar is better or worse than any of them, but I wouldn't put him at the top, that's for sure.

The drop isn't guaranteed to go to him i guess, but I like him over neph. He should be doing way better than neph/mia on these stages, +2 move, on these giant maps, and he's got more 2range options than Mia. Boyd and Neph have level disadvantages to Oscar, and i think your underestimating the +2 movement with canto.

I'm saying Oscar's combat ability isn't good enough to truly leverage his +2 Move and Canto. Those advantages are the main reason Titania and Haar are so high (+flight for Haar) but without combat all you get is Fiona and Astrid. And obviously Oscar isn't nearly that bad, but it's the comparison here. You don't need a team of 9 Move units to beat maps fast if a few will do the job. Maps like 3-8 and 3-10 have plenty of enemies that you don't need a lot of Move to reach in a reasonable amount of time.

Something else i forgot to mention is Oscar's earth affinity. This makes him way way way more durable than mia/neph when they don't get Ike's support

Well, Mia should be getting Ike's support anyway. And I think "way way way" is overboard here. By the time he gets that support up and running, I don't think any of them are having significant durability issues.

Man, where's Interceptor when you need him? He was always a lot better at this than I was.

[Fenrir]

As for the Drop, there are multiple candidates, like Ulki and Ranulf and Nephenee and Mia. Not saying Oscar is better or worse than any of them, but I wouldn't put him at the top, that's for sure.

I think Oscar easily beats out Ranulf due to his cat gauge. Ulki should get the 3-5. Mia starts at a lower level and has time to build it up, and she gets by fine with adept/forge. and i'm not giving you neph>Oscar yet.

I'm saying Oscar's combat ability isn't good enough to truly leverage his +2 Move and Canto. Those advantages are the main reason Titania and Haar are so high (+flight for Haar) but without combat all you get is Fiona and Astrid. And obviously Oscar isn't nearly that bad, but it's the comparison here. You don't need a team of 9 Move units to beat maps fast if a few will do the job. Maps like 3-8 and 3-10 have plenty of enemies that you don't need a lot of Move to reach in a reasonable amount of time.

Alright, usually 3-8/3-10 aren't seeing anyone besides Titan/Haar, but if your team's got Oscar on it, isn't he helping you since you can absolutely blitz the shit out of it?

If you're letting titan/Haar do everything, why are we using anybody else at all?

Well, Mia should be getting Ike's support anyway. And I think "way way way" is overboard here. By the time he gets that support up and running, I don't think any of them are having significant durability issues.

Man, where's Interceptor when you need him? He was always a lot better at this than I was.

Your probly right, but it's a definite advantage compared to nephenee, who suffers from durability issues until she hits 3rd tier.

Hahaha, don't let int do all the shit. But where has he been lately?

[-Cynthia-]

3-8 counts as an indoor map IIRC, meaning that having a mount isn't much of an advantage there.

[PKL]

I just did 3-8 in saber's draft and oscar had full move. It does not count as indoor.

[Fenrir]

3-8 counts as an indoor map IIRC, meaning that having a mount isn't much of an advantage there.

I just did 3-8 in saber's draft and oscar had full move. It does not count as indoor.

It would be really odd if it did count.

Worst part about member badges is Dondon having the appearance of an avatar.

[Radiant Dragon]

I'm almost positive 3-8 counts as indoors, since I recently did a draft using Titania in that chapter.

[Shadow Mir]

I just did 3-8 in saber's draft and oscar had full move. It does not count as indoor.

Actually, I'm positive you get -2 MOV for mounts there.

[Fenrir]

I'm almost positive 3-8 counts as indoors, since I recently did a draft using Titania in that chapter.

Actually, I'm positive you get -2 MOV for mounts there.

I'm pretty sure your both wrong. anybody doin 3-8?

[Xander]

I just did 3-8 in saber's draft and oscar had full move. It does not count as indoor.

Yes it does. I've played that map enough to have memorized that mounts get -2 move on it.

They're both right @Fenrir.

Edited July 25, 2011 by Xander

[Radiant Dragon]

I'm pretty sure your both wrong. anybody doin 3-8?

Nope, I'm on 4-3. I wonder if this info is on the main site... *Goes to check*

[Anouleth]

I never said she couldn't get it, I said it doesn't solve her problems like it does in NM. HM has effectively a quarter of the BEXP NM does, and it shows.

Oscar is just really underwhelming in HM, to be honest. He never doubles reliably with his base Spd, rate of growth due to base level, and Spd cap ( healso isn't high enough on the list of candidates for a Wing), and his Str often isn't good enough to do significant damage, either.

Yet his strength is better than Nephenee's, and he's only slightly behind in speed before he caps.

Nephenee can at least double pretty reliably and caps 3 stats around Oscar's base level, making for good BEXP slowplaying.

It's a shame that she's not at Oscar's base level.

I just did 3-8 in saber's draft and oscar had full move. It does not count as indoor.

I'm pretty sure that 3-8 has always been an indoor map.

[-Cynthia-]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kw9MP_oZo6I

See Haar's movement range at 7:45, it's 7 squares not 9.

[Fenrir]

Yet his strength is better than Nephenee's, and he's only slightly behind in speed before he caps.

It's a shame that she's not at Oscar's base level.

agreed, I think Oscar is comparable to neph combat wise, and with his extra movement is the better.

haha, she'd easily be better.

*horrible video*

See Haar's movement range at 7:45, it's 7 squares not 9.

God damn... i dug thru a vid for 5min, they kid sucked balls, and you beat me to it...

[Florete]

I think Oscar easily beats out Ranulf due to his cat gauge. Ulki should get the 3-5. Mia starts at a lower level and has time to build it up, and she gets by fine with adept/forge. and i'm not giving you neph>Oscar yet.

I didn't quite say that right before; Oscar can get a Drop, but it's not free (like Wings essentially are for Titania and Haar). This is one of those situations where if you're going to give Oscar a Drop, I think it follows that Neph gets one, too.

If you're letting titan/Haar do everything, why are we using anybody else at all?

I already said it. They can't handle everything, and what they can't handle generally doesn't need Canto and 9 Move to handle. The point here is that horse is not auto-win, especially when your combat is as lacking as Oscar's. If he could pull off even close to the same stuff Titania and Haar do, he'd already be much higher.

Hahaha, don't let int do all the shit. But where has he been lately?

I just mean that it would be helpful since he knows the works of this better than I do, but he probably got bored after Smash got banned.

Yet his strength is better than Nephenee's, and he's only slightly behind in speed before he caps.

That 'slightly' actually means something, though, because Oscar is usually just barely too low to double the majority of enemies. Even if Nephenee has only 1 or 2 more Spd, that's probably the difference between doubling and not doubling.

It's a shame that she's not at Oscar's base level.

Point: missed. It's how much EXP/BEXP she requires to become an adequate combat unit. You don't even specify a time here; when exactly is she not at Oscar's base level? At the same time he is? Well, duh. But it's not like anyone contested Neph getting the 2-E BEXP dump.

And yeah, the video's there for absolute proof now, so I don't need to point out how 3-8 is definitely indoors.