OMG it's a tier list

[Florete]

However, this makes me wonder of resources. Half these people who needed stat boosters don't anymore (Titania no longer needs a wing for example, Haar can just be slowplayed if we gave him a robe in PoR, Neph is basically Mia with spears now). What does this mean if we are taking transfers seriously with resources? Example.

This was pointed out before. It will likely be an advantage for that specific character. Like, the fact that Titania no longer needs a Speedwing can raise her significantly because now Haar can take one with almost no cost. I could probably see Transfer Titania in Top tier based mostly on that (And the fact that she doubles much more reliably herself).

Haar wants it.

He can be slowplayed with a transfer.

Well, not with just HP, which is likely all he'd be getting (Str is possible, but I don't know how likely with his high base level). HP is already one of his lowest growths, so capping it wouldn't do much for slowplaying his Spd since he still needs to cap 2 other stats before Spd becomes his 3rd highest growth, and even then being only 10% above Res could slap him in the face. He could probably cap it in tier 2, but his cap is only 24, so by the time it happens he'd likely run into doubling problems again and need a Crown.

Gatrie wants it

He only wants the 3-9 one anyways.

Wait, Gatrie wants a Speedwing?

[Narga_Rocks]

I just had a hilarious thought.

Transfer Tormod has a chance of capping Speed. A speed band and a wing might be needed, but he can. Brings his base to 22. I give him a DB energy drop, I could actually slowplay him while he's still with the DB. It's actually pretty possible to get him to his speed cap during part 1.

1. That Energy Drop has a steep price.

2. This won't help him in part 4 (trust me), so I don't think slightly better performance in part 1 will give him a better tier positioning.

3. He'll still be 3 points away from his Spd cap. There's no way he's capping it in part 1 when even 1 level could be considered a stretch.

On a side note for fun, a max transfer Sothe, despite how unreasonable it is, is pretty epic. Just check out his potential base stats:

HP: 40 (+5)

Mag: 15 (+11)

Str: 20 (+2)

Skl: 20

Spd: 20

Luck: 24 (up to 28 with Ashera Icons)(+9-13)

Def: 20 (+6)

Res: 15 (+6)

What does this mean? It means he's basically invincible for part 1 (Most enemies in 1-E 5+HKO him). 39 MT Tigers in 3-6 3HKO him and with any +Def support so do the 41 MT Tigers (He laughs at Cats), putting him on par with Volug until Avoid comes into play (Where they should be pretty similar even with Volug's Earth). Also, as soon as Str caps in 2 levels, Spd will be his 3rd highest growth, 25% above Mag (or, if Mag comes capped, Skl, Spd, and Luck will be all that's left), so he can easily slowplay on occasion to get his Spd up a lot faster than normal. This wouldn't suddenly make his part 4 epic, but I'm pretty sure he'd actually be somewhat reasonable as a second-hand fighter there.

Of course, the big issue is that this can only happen in Random mode with resets. :( I should throw him in Epic Tier for the hell of it.

Much as I love resetting in the base in PoR to cap Mist's skill and defense by level 20/20 and Mia/Marcia's def by level 20/12 or so, I don't think I'd be willing to argue for them getting a boost in those stats in RD. Much fun as 34hp/15def Mia and 34hp/18def Marcia are in this game. And they are fun.

But basically it would mean we could apply a >60% to everyone's growths (anything above 60 goes up by 10) and see what caps. So Jill gets str/skl/spd/def, Mist gets str/mag/skl/spd/def/res, Marcia gets str/skl/spd/def/res, Mia gets str/skl/spd/def, Ike gets hp/str/skl/spd/def/res, etc.

I suppose Zihark gets str/skl/spd/def as well.

Anyway, I'm just not willing to accept Sothe getting 20s. Also, he's basically just going to be better until 3-12 anyway. I had a def blessed Sothe one game and he still had issues in 3-12 with like 18 def and he capped before promotion in part 4. Basically, he still starts 4-3 with just 24 str and caps at 28. I suppose with the things that will cap, though, you can push that 20 spd up faster than normal (so he'll double in 4-3), but he's still going to be busy in 4-3 picking stuff up anyway and by 4-E-1 he's got a 1/2 skill% mastery that only kills if it activates on the first hit and no innate crit and he 3 or 4 HKOs if he has max str, and only 26 str is really reasonable at that point anyway, so 14 to 16 x 2 is 28 to 32 damage to the generals. Also, 46 hp and 22 def still gets you 2HKOd by 45 mt there.

Anyway, Transfer Ike deserves "Game Breaking" Tier, or something. I think even without the hp transfer, but especially with. Being able to slowplay for spd/def/lck in part 3 is awesome, and once he caps def he'll get spd/lck/res and usually can end part 3 with 2 or 3 points above average res and capped spd/def and a fair amount more luck.

Oh, and transfer Mia (with just str/skl/spd, though I had def as well) can quickly start boosting her luck and def to sick levels as well. Mia might have issues getting skill, though. Speed is so high that she can use steel for her entire career to boost str and she'll still cap spd on fixed mode. Killer and Brave help her skill. So does Iron, but iron hurts str. Steel doesn't hurt skl, though.

If she uses a str band enough she can use iron sometimes and still cap str in order to help out skill, throw in the killer and brave weapons a bit and she might be able to pull off capping skill and str. There are three bands for skill and I'm not sure anyone wants the sword band most of the time anyway since luck won't cap for anyone.

[grandjackal]

This was pointed out before. It will likely be an advantage for that specific character. Like, the fact that Titania no longer needs a Speedwing can raise her significantly because now Haar can take one with almost no cost. I could probably see Transfer Titania in Top tier based mostly on that (And the fact that she doubles much more reliably herself).

Why not just assume the character itself can get the boost? Like Ti can take a wing, but more often than not, all she needs is a transfer. This isn't like FE4's child system, it's just what the character itself is capable of.

If you wanna have seperate placings for transfers, fine by me I guess.

Well, not with just HP, which is likely all he'd be getting (Str is possible, but I don't know how likely with his high base level). HP is already one of his lowest growths, so capping it wouldn't do much for slowplaying his Spd since he still needs to cap 2 other stats before Spd becomes his 3rd highest growth, and even then being only 10% above Res could slap him in the face. He could probably cap it in tier 2, but his cap is only 24, so by the time it happens he'd likely run into doubling problems again and need a Crown.

It's rather likely actually, considering he caps it normally. As for Skill, he can just take a secret book which is useless anyways, and defense isn't that far off. By the time he reaches part 3, Speed Luck and Resistance are all he has left. Considering most of his starting part 3 chapters require little for him to do other than fly, it's not like we're dependent on his offense by any means. He can afford to wait by virtue.

Wait, Gatrie wants a Speedwing?

25 speed stops being good eventually, leveling at tier 3 speed isn't exactly fast.

[Florete]

I just had a hilarious thought.

Transfer Tormod has a chance of capping Speed. A speed band and a wing might be needed, but he can. Brings his base to 22. I give him a DB energy drop, I could actually slowplay him while he's still with the DB. It's actually pretty possible to get him to his speed cap during part 1.

1. That Energy Drop has a steep price.

2. This won't help him in part 4 (trust me), so I don't think slightly better performance in part 1 will give him a better tier positioning.

3. He'll still be 3 points away from his Spd cap. There's no way he's capping it in part 1 when even 1 level could be considered a stretch.

On a side note for fun, a max transfer Sothe, despite how unreasonable it is, is pretty epic. Just check out his potential base stats:

HP: 40 (+5)

Mag: 15 (+11)

Str: 20 (+2)

Skl: 20

Spd: 20

Luck: 24 (up to 28 with Ashera Icons)(+9-13)

Def: 20 (+6)

Res: 15 (+6)

What does this mean? It means he's basically invincible for part 1 (Most enemies in 1-E 5+HKO him). 39 MT Tigers in 3-6 3HKO him and with any +Def support so do the 41 MT Tigers (He laughs at Cats), putting him on par with Volug until Avoid comes into play (Where they should be pretty similar even with Volug's Earth). Also, as soon as Str caps in 2 levels, Spd will be his 3rd highest growth, 25% above Mag (or, if Mag comes capped, Skl, Spd, and Luck will be all that's left), so he can easily slowplay on occasion to get his Spd up a lot faster than normal. This wouldn't suddenly make his part 4 epic, but I'm pretty sure he'd actually be somewhat reasonable as a second-hand fighter there.

Of course, the big issue is that this can only happen in Random mode with resets. :( I should throw him in Epic Tier for the hell of it.

Much as I love resetting in the base in PoR to cap Mist's skill and defense by level 20/20 and Mia/Marcia's def by level 20/12 or so, I don't think I'd be willing to argue for them getting a boost in those stats in RD. Much fun as 34hp/15def Mia and 34hp/18def Marcia are in this game. And they are fun.

But basically it would mean we could apply a >60% to everyone's growths (anything above 60 goes up by 10) and see what caps. So Jill gets str/skl/spd/def, Mist gets str/mag/skl/spd/def/res, Marcia gets str/skl/spd/def/res, Mia gets str/skl/spd/def, Ike gets hp/str/skl/spd/def/res, etc.

I suppose Zihark gets str/skl/spd/def as well.

Anyway, I'm just not willing to accept Sothe getting 20s. Also, he's basically just going to be better until 3-12 anyway. I had a def blessed Sothe one game and he still had issues in 3-12 with like 18 def and he capped before promotion in part 4. Basically, he still starts 4-3 with just 24 str and caps at 28. I suppose with the things that will cap, though, you can push that 20 spd up faster than normal (so he'll double in 4-3), but he's still going to be busy in 4-3 picking stuff up anyway and by 4-E-1 he's got a 1/2 skill% mastery that only kills if it activates on the first hit and no innate crit and he 3 or 4 HKOs if he has max str, and only 26 str is really reasonable at that point anyway, so 14 to 16 x 2 is 28 to 32 damage to the generals. Also, 46 hp and 22 def still gets you 2HKOd by 45 mt there.

Calm down, buddy. I said twice that it was unreasonable already, and that's why I suggested tossing it into Epic Tier, aka the joke tier. No need to exploit it in multiple ways. :/

Anyway, Transfer Ike deserves "Game Breaking" Tier, or something. I think even without the hp transfer, but especially with. Being able to slowplay for spd/def/lck in part 3 is awesome, and once he caps def he'll get spd/lck/res and usually can end part 3 with 2 or 3 points above average res and capped spd/def and a fair amount more luck.

I made a list of Ike's likely BEXP levels with a transfer, lemme find it....I lost it. Oh well, I'll write it up again, assuming HP/Str/Skl/Spd/Def.

12: HP, Str, Def

13: Spd, Lck, Def

14: Spd, Lck, Def

15: Spd, Lck, Res

16: Spd, Lck, Res

17: Spd, Lck, Res

18: Mag, Lck, Res

19: Mag, Lck, Res

20: Mag, Lck, Res

And his level 20 stats are:

HP: 50 (+0.15 to average)

Str: 27

Mag: 5 (+2.1 to average)

Skl: 30

Spd: 30 (+3.85)

Lck: 22 (+5.3)

Def: 26 (+1.4)

Res: 13 (+4.65)

wtfh4x. Mag, Luck, and Res are all that don't cap, and Res is only two away.

[grandjackal]

Hurhurhur, that's 82 avoid he's packing. That's what most others get when they have an Earth support maxed out. Let's give him a Soren support, that's 36 (or is it 38) avoid. That's 118-120 avoid. This is literal invincibility at this point, the only thing that can hit him are probably swordies, and he lols at those.

[Florete]

Hurhurhur, that's 82 avoid he's packing. That's what most others get when they have an Earth support maxed out. Let's give him a Soren support, that's 36 (or is it 38) avoid. That's 118-120 avoid. This is literal invincibility at this point, the only thing that can hit him are probably swordies, and he lols at those.

That's 30 avoid...

[grandjackal]

Hurhurhur, that's 82 avoid he's packing. That's what most others get when they have an Earth support maxed out. Let's give him a Soren support, that's 36 (or is it 38) avoid. That's 118-120 avoid. This is literal invincibility at this point, the only thing that can hit him are probably swordies, and he lols at those.

That's 30 avoid...

It's only 10 and not 12? ;;>>

Sidenote: Zihark after transfer is actually a LOT like Mia without a transfer. Think he wouldn't mind going with the GM this runaround? 3rd Earth never hurt.

Edited October 5, 2009 by France

[Florete]

Hurhurhur, that's 82 avoid he's packing. That's what most others get when they have an Earth support maxed out. Let's give him a Soren support, that's 36 (or is it 38) avoid. That's 118-120 avoid. This is literal invincibility at this point, the only thing that can hit him are probably swordies, and he lols at those.

That's 30 avoid...

It's only 10 and not 12? ;;>>

2.5 + 7.5 = 10. So yes.

[Narga_Rocks]

Much as I love resetting in the base in PoR to cap Mist's skill and defense by level 20/20 and Mia/Marcia's def by level 20/12 or so, I don't think I'd be willing to argue for them getting a boost in those stats in RD. Much fun as 34hp/15def Mia and 34hp/18def Marcia are in this game. And they are fun.

But basically it would mean we could apply a >60% to everyone's growths (anything above 60 goes up by 10) and see what caps. So Jill gets str/skl/spd/def, Mist gets str/mag/skl/spd/def/res, Marcia gets str/skl/spd/def/res, Mia gets str/skl/spd/def, Ike gets hp/str/skl/spd/def/res, etc.

I suppose Zihark gets str/skl/spd/def as well.

Anyway, I'm just not willing to accept Sothe getting 20s. Also, he's basically just going to be better until 3-12 anyway. I had a def blessed Sothe one game and he still had issues in 3-12 with like 18 def and he capped before promotion in part 4. Basically, he still starts 4-3 with just 24 str and caps at 28. I suppose with the things that will cap, though, you can push that 20 spd up faster than normal (so he'll double in 4-3), but he's still going to be busy in 4-3 picking stuff up anyway and by 4-E-1 he's got a 1/2 skill% mastery that only kills if it activates on the first hit and no innate crit and he 3 or 4 HKOs if he has max str, and only 26 str is really reasonable at that point anyway, so 14 to 16 x 2 is 28 to 32 damage to the generals. Also, 46 hp and 22 def still gets you 2HKOd by 45 mt there.

Calm down, buddy. I said twice that it was unreasonable already, and that's why I suggested tossing it into Epic Tier, aka the joke tier. No need to exploit it in multiple ways. :/

I'm sorry. :( I didn't mean it to sound like I was going off on you.

I suppose you could put him in epic tier, but while that acknowledges how he won't reasonably exist, I think it might imply that if he did exist he'd be better than I think he'd be at that point. Then again the 3-13 archer is up there, so maybe it's fine.

Anyway, Transfer Ike deserves "Game Breaking" Tier, or something. I think even without the hp transfer, but especially with. Being able to slowplay for spd/def/lck in part 3 is awesome, and once he caps def he'll get spd/lck/res and usually can end part 3 with 2 or 3 points above average res and capped spd/def and a fair amount more luck.

I made a list of Ike's likely BEXP levels with a transfer, lemme find it....I lost it. Oh well, I'll write it up again, assuming HP/Str/Skl/Spd/Def.

12: HP, Str, Def

13: Spd, Lck, Def

14: Spd, Lck, Def

15: Spd, Lck, Res

16: Spd, Lck, Res

17: Spd, Lck, Res

18: Mag, Lck, Res

19: Mag, Lck, Res

20: Mag, Lck, Res

And his level 20 stats are:

HP: 50 (+0.15 to average)

Str: 27

Mag: 5 (+2.1 to average)

Skl: 30

Spd: 30 (+3.85)

Lck: 22 (+5.3)

Def: 26 (+1.4)

Res: 13 (+4.65)

wtfh4x. Mag, Luck, and Res are all that don't cap, and Res is only two away.

Those were pretty much my results on EM/NM. On HM I needed him to do too much and he missed a couple of bexp levels and dropped 1 or 2 res and luck.

Hurhurhur, that's 82 avoid he's packing. That's what most others get when they have an Earth support maxed out. Let's give him a Soren support, that's 36 (or is it 38) avoid. That's 118-120 avoid. This is literal invincibility at this point, the only thing that can hit him are probably swordies, and he lols at those.

um, 30 x 2 + 22 = 82. Don't forget Ike's stars, though, you always do:

82 + 15 = 97. Now his own support gives 120 with fire/water/light/heaven. The 127 with wind/thunder/dark is largely unecessary when he has 26 + 5 def thanks to ragnell and enemy sages fail at life hitting.

It's only 10 and not 12? ;;>>

dark/wind/thunder give +2.5, earth gives +7.5.

So C is 10, B is 20, A is 30.

Without the avo boost from dark/wind/thunder, earth alone gives:

C is 8, B is 15, A is 23.

The game rounds up, but only the final calculation.

So it's not:

11, 22, 33, either.

[grandjackal]

One thing I wanna bring up.

Zihark with a transfer is actually quite a bit like Mia. Not as dodgy at first (she has 6 extra luck, bit extra speed), but once a support kicks in, that story changes. It's great being a foot soldier with Earth, as it means you can connect with so many people, like Nephenee, Soren, Boyd, what have you. They'd have similar strength (they'd start the same, but Zihark does have a bit of time to level before they both meet eachother) at first, though she'd beat him out eventually there a well, but he caps it anyways. In fact, Zihark hits the same Str at generally the same time she does even with a transfer, and he has a 1 Str larger cap. He hits his speed caps, and her luck doesn't completely knock out Zihark's earth supporting an avoid support, this is considering she has Ike as well. At best, she has a bit more HP and defense for a bit, but when you're unhittable to begin with, who gives a shit? On top of this, he has Adept at the ready. One could say she gets Adept, but I could also take Vantage from her and give it to him. He uses it just as well, and now we have another Adept free.

[Florete]

I'm sorry. :( I didn't mean it to sound like I was going off on you.

I suppose you could put him in epic tier, but while that acknowledges how he won't reasonably exist, I think it might imply that if he did exist he'd be better than I think he'd be at that point. Then again the 3-13 archer is up there, so maybe it's fine.

If Max Transfer Sothe could reasonably exist (Probably without Mag, but no one cares about that. Also only 39 HP w/o a Robe, but 1 away...), he'd definitely be Top tier, > Volug, very likely > Haar, Ike, and Reyson, possibly right below Transfer Ike in that guy's tier. Seriously, he'd be the best character until Nailah shows up since he even beats Tauroneo and Muarim. Don't believe me?

Tauroneo vs. Max Transfer Sothe:

Sothe - +2 HP, likely some Spd

Tauroneo - +1 Def, some Str

Tie Res. Tauroneo won't even win Def if Sothe has a +Def support. Sothe stomps him in mobility.

They're relatively equal defensively, so Tauroneo only wins offense, but Sothe's 31 atk w/Beastkiller and no support kills everything, and with any +Mt support he ORKO's Armor Knights. And the Beastkiller is only for the high Def guys, an Iron Dagger/Knife forge will work against most enemies.

As for Muarim, gauge screws him up.

So this guy is the best unit for 7 maps and still great for the next 2 during which only 1-2 units beat him, these 9 of which are often considered very tough chapters. For the next 3 he's still pretty great (Beaten only possibly by Volug, at worst tieing the next best guys), and then he still has various uses for the rest of the game without being in too much danger (The usual stuff + better combat).

And another great part is that he can still usually equip a weak weapon to soften enemies for other guys, he doesn't have to go around killing mercilessly like Muarim and Nailah.

Who holds a candle to something like that? Transfer Ike, I suppose. No one else can claim that kind of performance.

[Narga_Rocks]

Sidenote: Zihark after transfer is actually a LOT like Mia without a transfer. Think he wouldn't mind going with the GM this runaround? 3rd Earth never hurt.

One thing I wanna bring up.

Zihark with a transfer is actually quite a bit like Mia. Not as dodgy at first (she has 6 extra luck, bit extra speed), but once a support kicks in, that story changes. It's great being a foot soldier with Earth, as it means you can connect with so many people, like Nephenee, Soren, Boyd, what have you. They'd have similar strength (they'd start the same, but Zihark does have a bit of time to level before they both meet eachother) at first, though she'd beat him out eventually there a well, but he caps it anyways. In fact, Zihark hits the same Str at generally the same time she does even with a transfer, and he has a 1 Str larger cap. He hits his speed caps, and her luck doesn't completely knock out Zihark's earth supporting an avoid support, this is considering she has Ike as well. At best, she has a bit more HP and defense for a bit, but when you're unhittable to begin with, who gives a shit? On top of this, he has Adept at the ready. One could say she gets Adept, but I could also take Vantage from her and give it to him. He uses it just as well, and now we have another Adept free.

Well, his def doesn't go up, but his str caps at 24 in 2nd tier anyway, and I've always assumed that his 22.95 goes up to 24 from bexp in the 3-13 base and 4-P/1/2 base anyway, since it would only take 2 bexp levels to pull it off (provided you take him all the way to level 20 before promoting). Then she gets a +3 at promotion and he gets a +2. Then she has a level lead. All my calculations for why Zihark's offence is significantly less good than Mia's in part 4 were based off Zihark staying with the DB and capping tier 2 str. It just gets worse if you don't assume. The only thing a str + skl + spd (the only things he'll cap) transfer gets him is that he can maybe crown at level 18 or 19 and not lose str any worse than he already does in part 4.

The problem with sending him to the GMs is the same as it's always been: The DB lose him and he joins supportless unless he goes with Jill. Also, he doesn't get a chapter bonus for 3-7, so he's looking at using 3-8 and 3-10 to get a C in 3-11, and 3-11 and 3-E to get a B in 4-P/1/2, and 4-P/1/2 and 4-3/4/5 to get an A for 4-E. If you don't let him support Jill he's going to be rather squishy for all of part 3, since he'll have 32 hp and 14 def at level 7 (which is probably all he's getting to by the end of 3-6) and she'll be level 16 or so in 3-8 with 40 hp and 16.6 def. Then there is skl/spd, and she'll have 30/30 now, while a transfer Z has ~27/28, and she'll have 21 luck vs. his 13 luck. Also, she'll have skill and speed capped much earlier with her own transfers so that makes even more luck and defence than what I listed.

Considering her avo lead is already 12 without getting her own transfers, and her hp lead is 8 and def lead is 2 or 3, and she can have a support of some sort, if Zihark doesn't support Jill then Mia is beating Zihark down quite hard (regardless of the identity of her support partner).

Oh, and 21 str vs Z's 20 str, and that's a no-transfer Mia vs. Transfer Zihark. Transfer Mia has 23 now. And +2 from her support. So a 3 to 5 mt lead to go along with all the rest.

Give Zihark a Jill support, Mia with an Ike support is still winning avo by 5 and def by 0 or 1, and hp by 8. And Jill is actually missed in the DB chapters.

Also, about Adept, he'd still be using it in 3-6 if remains "free", so he's got problems there. I suppose you could easy-button 3-6 to avoid Zihark using adept as a means of suicide, but then his level 7 drops to level 4 or 5.

Anyway, while he has more str and ORKOs more in part 1 without needing the brave sword and his extra speed lets him double cats easier in 3-6, I'm not seeing how the transfers put him above Vanilla Gatrie/Titania/Mia, let alone the transfer versions of any of them.

[Interceptor]

Calm down, buddy. I said twice that it was unreasonable already, and that's why I suggested tossing it into Epic Tier, aka the joke tier. No need to exploit it in multiple ways. :/

I am OK with "Sothe (transfer, reset hax)" in the joke Epic tier, so long as you put an average transfer Sothe on the real tier list. That's a different kind of joke, since he'd be the only transfer character on the list that's worse than the real one.

[Sol Hiryu]

I'd say max transfer Sothe is entirely unreasonable, as you'll certainly won't have him be using combat in PoR, where Volke is superior and even HE sucks at combat. Not only that, you're forced to level him up entirely by BEXP, and if you wanted max transfers, there'd be a large amount of reset abuse for it. If max transfer Sothe existed, I'd say the cost of getting him there wouldn't make him top tier at all.

[Florete]

Calm down, buddy. I said twice that it was unreasonable already, and that's why I suggested tossing it into Epic Tier, aka the joke tier. No need to exploit it in multiple ways. :/

I am OK with "Sothe (transfer, reset hax)" in the joke Epic tier, so long as you put an average transfer Sothe on the real tier list. That's a different kind of joke, since he'd be the only transfer character on the list that's worse than the real one.

That begs the question: Why would you transfer a character to be worse than normal at all?

Is this your anti-Sothe bias speaking?

I'd say max transfer Sothe is entirely unreasonable, as you'll certainly won't have him be using combat in PoR, where Volke is superior and even HE sucks at combat. Not only that, you're forced to level him up entirely by BEXP, and if you wanted max transfers, there'd be a large amount of reset abuse for it. If max transfer Sothe existed, I'd say the cost of getting him there wouldn't make him top tier at all.

This is not new information (It's been stated multiple times that Max Transfer Sothe is unreasonable). Besides, BEXP is so abundant in PoR leveling him up on that and Stealing would likely be enough.

Besides, so far I've only been considering how they perform when they get the transfers, not how their performance affects use in PoR (aka PoR tiering), because that game is too easy to care, especially when considering transfers.

[Interceptor]

I'd say max transfer Sothe is entirely unreasonable, as you'll certainly won't have him be using combat in PoR, where Volke is superior and even HE sucks at combat. Not only that, you're forced to level him up entirely by BEXP, and if you wanted max transfers, there'd be a large amount of reset abuse for it. If max transfer Sothe existed, I'd say the cost of getting him there wouldn't make him top tier at all.

OK so, here's the thing: there is no cost for a max-stat Sothe transfer in terms of efficient RD completion. Think about it: playing PoR and resetting for 40 hours to make a perfect Sothe does not slow you down in RD in the least, it does not cost you turns on efficiency or anything. It's nothing but a net positive in terms of this list's requirements. Contrary to 8=D and AdjectiveNoun's objections, a perfectly reasonable argument can be made for reset abuse in PoR transfers.

So this is why I suggest killing that argument in the crib by mandating Fixed Mode, to avoid the conflict. If Fixed Mode didn't exist, I would suggest a stipulation that only average stats can be used.

[Narga_Rocks]

I'm sorry. :( I didn't mean it to sound like I was going off on you.

I suppose you could put him in epic tier, but while that acknowledges how he won't reasonably exist, I think it might imply that if he did exist he'd be better than I think he'd be at that point. Then again the 3-13 archer is up there, so maybe it's fine.

If Max Transfer Sothe could reasonably exist (Probably without Mag, but no one cares about that. Also only 39 HP w/o a Robe, but 1 away...), he'd definitely be Top tier, > Volug, very likely > Haar, Ike, and Reyson, possibly right below Transfer Ike in that guy's tier. Seriously, he'd be the best character until Nailah shows up since he even beats Tauroneo and Muarim. Don't believe me?

Tauroneo vs. Max Transfer Sothe:

Sothe - +2 HP, likely some Spd

Tauroneo - +1 Def, some Str

Tie Res. Tauroneo won't even win Def if Sothe has a +Def support. Sothe stomps him in mobility.

They're relatively equal defensively, so Tauroneo only wins offense, but Sothe's 31 atk w/Beastkiller and no support kills everything, and with any +Mt support he ORKO's Armor Knights. And the Beastkiller is only for the high Def guys, an Iron Dagger/Knife forge will work against most enemies.

As for Muarim, gauge screws him up.

So this guy is the best unit for 7 maps and still great for the next 2 during which only 1-2 units beat him, these 9 of which are often considered very tough chapters. For the next 3 he's still pretty great (Beaten only possibly by Volug, at worst tieing the next best guys), and then he still has various uses for the rest of the game without being in too much danger (The usual stuff + better combat).

And another great part is that he can still usually equip a weak weapon to soften enemies for other guys, he doesn't have to go around killing mercilessly like Muarim and Nailah.

Who holds a candle to something like that? Transfer Ike, I suppose. No one else can claim that kind of performance.

I think I might value some of his part 1 chapters more than you do. Which is surprising. I guess that he's now better in 1-6-1 than before, and 1-7, and 1-E, but I've always considered him pretty great in the other chapters. Yes, that includes 1-5, 1-6-2, 1-8. Then in part 3 he's got more durability, sure, but I'm not convinced he's significantly better.

I guess the magnitude of his wins in part 1 is increased, though, and I could agree with top tier, even > Volug, but I don't think he jumps to "are you sure this is HM" tier like transfer Ike does, at least not after part 1. Maybe his part 1 is enough to overshoot top tier, but I don't think so. Maybe > Vanilla Ike, though. Probably Reyson, too, but lots of us think Ike > Reyson anyway.

And I think Int just means that all the transfer versions of characters exist and if you put up one of them, all should be up. This includes doing things like:

Lethe (T/V)

and stuff like that considering transfer Lethe exists, too, she just happens to be the exact same as normal Lethe.

I suppose you could just have Sothe suicide in endgame in PoR if his stats are bad and he's level 20, but I don't think that would be in the spirit of putting transfer units on this list.

[Interceptor]

That begs the question: Why would you transfer a character to be worse than normal at all?

You wouldn't, that's why it's funny. The tier list is about potential, let's rank the "potential" of a transfer Sothe with average/fixed stats.

Is this your anti-Sothe bias speaking?

I am not anti-Sothe. I have a great deal of respect for his character design, background and...

Oh fine, I hate his guts and think he and his stupid belly-shirt should die in a fire. I use him in Part 1, and then throw him aside like a used handkerchief. Most of the time I'll deploy him in 4-E-5 just to get him killed on purpose.

Edited October 5, 2009 by Interceptor

[Florete]

That begs the question: Why would you transfer a character to be worse than normal at all?

You wouldn't, that's why it's funny. The tier list is about potential, let's rank the "potential" of a transfer Sothe with average/fixed stats.

While I see where you're coming from, I must note that even in the realm of unreasonable actions there are certain things a sane player just won't do. Using PoR resources to make a character worse in the end is akin to boss abusing a unit that already has every stat capped (and can't promote either).

I mean, I could put it on as a joke, but I don't want to have too many joke characters, especially among the real characters, and Normal Transfer Sothe would not fit in Epic or Phail tier. Unless you want a joke tier between High and Upper Mid called Hyper Mid.

I am not anti-Sothe. I have a great deal of respect for his character design, background and...

Oh fine, I hate his guts and think he and his stupid belly-shirt should die in a fire. I use him in Part 1, and then throw him aside like a used handkerchief. Most of the time I'll deploy him in 4-E-5 just to get him killed in purpose.

I just don't understand why so many people hate Sothe...I'm used to characters being overloved, like Soren, not overhated.

[grandjackal]

I STILL think he should be top, considering he's Volug with range, if not his mobility and durability.

[NinjaMonkey]

I just don't understand why so many people hate Sothe...I'm used to characters being overloved, like Soren, not overhated.

Let's see shall we? His weapon of choice happens to be the weakest type in the game, his Mastery skill is complete rubbish, his forced promotion is really late in the game, he's practically useless in the endgame (which he is forced to participate in), his stealing ability is relatively worthless (since most enemy units only have one weapon (and occaisionly a vulneary).

And that's just for starters...

I STILL think he should be top, considering he's Volug with range, if not his mobility and durability.

What durability? One hit, and he loses half his HP...

Edited October 5, 2009 by NinjaMonkey

[Florete]

I just don't understand why so many people hate Sothe...I'm used to characters being overloved, like Soren, not overhated.

Let's see shall we? His weapon of choice happens to be the weakest type in the game, his Mastery skill is complete rubbish, his forced promotion is really late in the game, he's practically useless in the endgame (which he is forced to participate in), his stealing ability is relatively worthless (since most enemy units only have one weapon (and occaisionly a vulneary).

And that's just for starters...

Wtf does that have to do with people hating him (Despite the fact some of it isn't even true)? People still like Lyre despite the fact she's pure shit as a unit. Same goes for a lot of bad units.

What durability? One hit, and he loses half his HP...

Your proof is amazing.

[NinjaMonkey]

I just don't understand why so many people hate Sothe...I'm used to characters being overloved, like Soren, not overhated.

Let's see shall we? His weapon of choice happens to be the weakest type in the game, his Mastery skill is complete rubbish, his forced promotion is really late in the game, he's practically useless in the endgame (which he is forced to participate in), his stealing ability is relatively worthless (since most enemy units only have one weapon (and occaisionly a vulneary).

And that's just for starters...

Wtf does that have to do with people hating him (Despite the fact some of it isn't even true)? People still like Lyre despite the fact she's pure shit as a unit. Same goes for a lot of bad units.

I can't speak for everyone, but the reasons I stated are why I hate Sothe.

[Dat Nick]

Yes, totally skip over his nearly required for some chapters part 1, why don't you?

What durability? One hit, and he loses half his HP...

We're talking part 1 here....

Edited October 6, 2009 by Athena's Chest

[NinjaMonkey]

Yes, totally skip over his nearly required for some chapters part 1, why don't you?

Why not? Everyone else skips over his atrocious Part 4...

Edited October 6, 2009 by NinjaMonkey