Esau of Isaac Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 New spoilers Aizen kills Stark, then decides that Halibel is too weak and finishes her off. He then sends Gin and Tosen to battle. No, I am not kidding. Fuck you, Kubo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuuda Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Look on the bright side. At least Aizen does something. Finally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esau of Isaac Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Look on the bright side. At least Aizen does something. Finally. That's like coming home to find dead bodies in your house, then noting that "at least the weather's nice today." I'd say this development is unprecedented, but it's not, sadly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zkirsche Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Aizen kills Stark, then decides that Halibel is too weak and finishes her off. He then sends Gin and Tosen to battle. Eh? There's nothing in 475 about Stark being killed by Aizen, he was killed by Kyoraku's attack. You're right about Halibel. Also, he never sends those two into battle officially in the latest chapter. Unless spoilers are coming out a week early now. In other news: It appears Stark is a natural arrancer, considering in his flash backs he lacks a mask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pride Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 That was ass on an unprecedented scale. Seems like the Espada were a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esau of Isaac Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 Aizen kills Stark, then decides that Halibel is too weak and finishes her off. He then sends Gin and Tosen to battle. Eh? There's nothing in 475 about Stark being killed by Aizen, he was killed by Kyoraku's attack. You're right about Halibel. Also, he never sends those two into battle officially in the latest chapter. Unless spoilers are coming out a week early now. In other news: It appears Stark is a natural arrancer, considering in his flash backs he lacks a mask. Spoilers tend to lack accuracy sometimes. He still killed Halibel for no fucking reason. And they officially followed him into battle at the last panel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonBladeSniper Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 WHAT THE FUCK?! HE JUST KILLED HER?! That means it's like a bunch of captains and vezeroids V.S. Tousen, Gin and Aizen... Yet the latter will still probably beat them. T.T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esau of Isaac Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 So I saw Bleach: Fade to Black, and I must say I was pretty impressed. It's easily the best of the movies, and probably the best thing that's come out since the beginning of the Hueco Mundo Arc. I had a fun time watching more of Shunsui and Ukitake fighting together, and Ichigo's short little battle with Komamura for once emphasized that he's actually around their strength. More of Urahara using Benihime was also pretty neat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunny: spider bitten Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Wow, Kubo. Way to make it obvious that Aizen has better soldiers than the Espada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamer7625 Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 Kensei went straight to Bankai yay! The way Mashiro sounded she was about to die. I do feel sorry for Hyori looks like she won't be kicking people anymore... >_> She'll probably survive though I doubt Kubo would kill her now as he's killed no other good character!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunny: spider bitten Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 On the one hand, the quick trigger there makes it hard to see them all staying dead. However, I still think all of them dying is a continuously growing possibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Cold Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 *explodes from the spoilers* anyway, somewhere someone mentioned that Orihime might die in blablabla, but wouldn't see be likely to turn into a Shinigami, since she has high spirit power (for a human) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGV Posted October 11, 2009 Author Share Posted October 11, 2009 Holy shit. Is....*cant remember name.... fuck* really gonna die? It looks like it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pitbuller26 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 You mean Hiyori? Well if she has Rangiku's(nearly half of her right side was slashed from her) plot armor then she'll survive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightBow Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Makes me wonder who was thinking that it would be a good idea to leave the 4th division at home and sending it's captain AND her lieutenant to Huerto Mundo, leaving the front lines without any medical support. The Goto 13 should fire their tactician. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esau of Isaac Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Ah, forgot to relay the spoilers: Yammy has beaten Renji and the gang, and he's about to kick Rukia's ass, when Ichigo suddenly appears and --despite being informed that Yammy is now a lower number than Ulquiorra-- engages the horned mask he was wearing at the time of the Ulquiorra battle as he would his normal mask; it appears that the power-up is now solidified. All of this would have actually been awesome had it happened over the course of like fifty chapters and been a bit more explained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunny: spider bitten Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Well, it won't be bad if someone points it out. Doing so would hopefully mean that it'll be explained eventually. I'll be pissed if it's just accepted, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esau of Isaac Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Well, it won't be bad if someone points it out. Doing so would hopefully mean that it'll be explained eventually. I'll be pissed if it's just accepted, though. I don't think it'll ever be explained. Kubo has a habit of not giving any real explanation to most of his increases in strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eltoshen Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 Actually, he does, for the most part. It seems like Ichigo's just advanced his hollow powers into the next stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esau of Isaac Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 Actually, he does, for the most part. The number of times when his increases in power have been at all explained can be counted on one fucking hand. Try and explain to me how he went from being able to hold his hollow mask for ten seconds to maintaining it several minutes. Tell me how he went from not even getting close to equaling the total power of Grimmjow in his masked form when his opponent was not using their Resurreccion, to being their equal after it, to then fighting on a fair plane against someone two numbers below him that the aforementioned individual could not possibly defeat, in the space of a few hours at the absolute most. Explain all of this cogently, with explicitly stated information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightBow Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 (edited) Well, I will give it a try: Try and explain to me how he went from being able to hold his hollow mask for ten seconds to maintaining it several minutes. Well, there was his kido-training with the Shiba-silblings in the volumes 9-10, where he was the only one of his group not to get the hang of it quickly. This was quite strange, after all Ichigo was introduced as a child prodigy for everything Shinigami related with growths higher then Wolf and Sedgar combined. So why would he fail on a test that everyone of his comrades was able to master easily? Well after Ganju helped him out he got the hang of it quickly. It caused an explosion but he got it right. And when he tried to learn Bankai, on the second day of his training Yoruichi commented in chapter 132 that while his fighting abilities got better and better, there was no notable increase in his spiritual power and therefore his chances to succeed were rather slim. While we never saw the outcome of the training, we do know that he managed to master Bankai after all despite his slow progress up to this point. And while he trained to use his hollow mask, Hyori was taunting him for his rather below average performance, being only able to maintain the mask for 10 seconds after a full month of training. Ichigo is probably just a slow starter who has trouble to get the hang of things that require a rather calm mind since he is such a hothead. It doesn't help that he has such a gigantic amount of spiritual energie since that means he needs to control it even better then your average Shinigami with decades of training because otherwise he would end up blowing stuff up, as seen in the above mentioned kido-training example. And Ishida mentioned in chapter 49 that Ichigo instinctively suppresses his spiritual power because he has just that much energy and now idea how to actually control it. So he definitely has his fair share of excuses for being such a slow learner but once he gets the hang of something, he masters it immediately and leads it to a whole new level as to be expected from a child prodigy. And in the case of the hollow mask the moment which allowed him to get the hang of it just happened to be the battle against Grimmjow. He would probably have an easier time if he had regular Shinigami-training in order to be able to control his energy but there was never time for it. Tell me how he went from not even getting close to equaling the total power of Grimmjow in his masked form when his opponent was not using their Resurreccion... Ichigo transformed at the end of chapter 280 and Grimmjow transformed immediately afterwards at the beginning of chapter 281. The only time when Ichigo fought Grimmjow without his Resurreccion while wielding his hollow mask was before Huerto Mundo and back then Grimmjow got pretty much destroyed by Ichigo until his mask disappeared and that was definitely more then a few hours before his fight with Ulquiorra. ...to then fighting on a fair plane against someone two numbers below him that the aforementioned individual could not possibly defeat, in the space of a few hours at the absolute most. To be honest I have no idea. Ulquiorra does have a few ideas in chapter 340 but all of them seem rather hard to buy. And chapter 341 threw even more ideas into the room: Ichigo might have become "more Hollow" or Ulquiorra might have become "more human". I do admit it's a bit hard to buy but if Ichigo became "more hollow" his increase in power might have been the result of being close to transform again. Not a good explanation but it is at last possible. And don't underestimate Grimmjow. In chapter 278 he did fight against Ulquiorra and was able to deal with him without even drawing his sword and he got away with only a few bruises. So they might not be THAT far apart. In the end the reason will probably be: Ichigo got pushed past a "level" while fighting Grimmjow and being able to somehow survive against Nnoitra while still being exhausted and injured. And therefore after he was restored he was stronger then before he fought Grimmjow or some other bullshit like that. However perhaps Ichigo wasn't even much stronger then Ulquiorra during his first fight with him and the second and final. In chapter 340 Ulqi was impressed that Ichigo proved to be able to block his ceros without wielding his mask which means he was able to increase his spiritual power. And it seems like if Ichigo actually DOES increase his spiritual power by a notable amount it pretty much shots through the roof. And even back in chapter 193 Ulquiorra already stated that Ichigos energy fluctuates and while on it's strongest was already higher then his own. So Ichigo didn't need to become stronger, he just needed to learn how to actually use the power he already possessed in order to rival Ulquiorra. So again, he just needed to get "the hang of it". And this can happen pretty much any time but most likely when he has his back against the wall because: 1. For dramatic effect; 2. People DO learn quick if their lives depend on it. So "raising a level" is not even that hard to imagine in Ichigos situation. And he was able to keep track with Ulquiorra's movements, unlike in his first battle with him as seen in chapter 341. However I think that with all those battles he went through during that time that it is rather easy imaginable that his senses adapted to it. Kind of funny how I wrote all of this down because I think you are damm right. For example... ...we never learned where Ichigo'S inner hollow came from. Most people will probably assume that this was a side effect from Uraharas rather dangerous training methods which almost caused Ichigo to transform into a hollow. But if this was the time Ichigo's hollow was born then what it that possessed him during his first fight with Renji in chapter 55? In other words, the origin of his hollow mask is left unexplained for over 35 volumes now, if we take consider whatever happened to Ichigo during said fight as the work of his hollow. We also never saw him actually finish his Bankai training. And we don't know what it was that took the form of Kenpachi while he was fighting his hollow in his inner world in chapter 220. The part of Ichigo's soul that is responsible for fighting? Maybe the same part that Zangetsu ordered Ichigo to find during his Bankai training? As far as I know there is no actual explanation to this whole mess. And his most recent transformation dosn't make it easier. So there definitely are lots of open questions in regard to Ichigo's power and after all this time I'm doubting that Tite Kubo will ever explain them. Btw... Does anybody have an idea how Ichigo plans to leave Huerto Mundo? After all Aizen closed all the gates which the Shinigami captains used to get in. Edited October 17, 2009 by BrightBow-User Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esau of Isaac Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Well, there was his kido-training with the Shiba-silblings in the volumes 9-10, where he was the only one of his group not to get the hang of it quickly. This was quite strange, after all Ichigo was introduced as a child prodigy for everything Shinigami related with growths higher then Wolf and Sedgar combined. So why would he fail on a test that everyone of his comrades was able to master easily? Well after Ganju helped him out he got the hang of it quickly. It caused an explosion but he got it right. I'm not sure what this has to do with his hollow mask. And while he trained to use his hollow mask, Hyori was taunting him for his rather below average performance, being only able to maintain the mask for 10 seconds after a full month of training. And then, not even a week later, he was suddenly capable of maintaining it for minutes. Ichigo is probably just a slow starter who has trouble to get the hang of things that require a rather calm mind since he is such a hothead. It doesn't help that he has such a gigantic amount of spiritual energie since that means he needs to control it even better then your average Shinigami with decades of training because otherwise he would end up blowing stuff up, as seen in the above mentioned kido-training example. And Ishida mentioned in chapter 49 that Ichigo instinctively suppresses his spiritual power because he has just that much energy and now idea how to actually control it. This doesn't explain why he goes from skill enough to only hold it for ten seconds to being capable to hold it long enough for an entire battle. So he definitely has his fair share of excuses for being such a slow learner but once he gets the hang of something, he masters it immediately and leads it to a whole new level as to be expected from a child prodigy. And in the case of the hollow mask the moment which allowed him to get the hang of it just happened to be the battle against Grimmjow. He would probably have an easier time if he had regular Shinigami-training in order to be able to control his energy but there was never time for it. This doesn't make sense at all, however. It's an increase in strength that is senseless; there was no explanation for why it occurred, he was just suddenly able to do it. Ichigo transformed at the end of chapter 280 and Grimmjow transformed immediately afterwards at the beginning of chapter 281. The only time when Ichigo fought Grimmjow without his Resurreccion while wielding his hollow mask was before Huerto Mundo and back then Grimmjow got pretty much destroyed by Ichigo until his mask disappeared and that was definitely more then a few hours before his fight with Ulquiorra. Grimmjow had been surprised. After Ichigo lost his mask the injuries were shown to be relatively superficial, with Grimmjow not appearing at all flagged until the appearance of Shinji. And the difference between Ichigo's battle with Grimmjow in Hueco Mundo (which was what the other portion of the sentence was referring to) was at most hours before the one with Ulquiorra. To be honest I have no idea. Ulquiorra does have a few ideas in chapter 340 but all of them seem rather hard to buy. And chapter 341 threw even more ideas into the room: Ichigo might have become "more Hollow" or Ulquiorra might have become "more human". I do admit it's a bit hard to buy but if Ichigo became "more hollow" his increase in power might have been the result of being close to transform again. Not a good explanation but it is at last possible. And don't underestimate Grimmjow. In chapter 278 he did fight against Ulquiorra and was able to deal with him without even drawing his sword and he got away with only a few bruises. So they might not be THAT far apart. Ulquiorra and Grimmjow are entirely far apart, such that Grimmjow purposely used his cube to seal him away because he knew he would not be able to put him down. Moreover, Ichigo was instantly killed by Ulquiorra by a single strike, after which he fought on equal ground with Grimmjow. The gulf between them is undeniably large. However perhaps Ichigo wasn't even much stronger then Ulquiorra during his first fight with him and the second and final. In chapter 340 Ulqi was impressed that Ichigo proved to be able to block his ceros without wielding his mask which means he was able to increase his spiritual power. This is already after Ichigo has crossed a gap of strength unrealistically. And even back in chapter 193 Ulquiorra already stated that Ichigos energy fluctuates and while on it's strongest was already higher then his own. So Ichigo didn't need to become stronger, he just needed to learn how to actually use the power he already possessed in order to rival Ulquiorra. And Ichigo gaining the experience needed in a few hours to defeat someone he couldn't even track with his eyes doesn't make any sense. It has never been explained. So again, he just needed to get "the hang of it". And this can happen pretty much any time but most likely when he has his back against the wall because: 1. For dramatic effect; 2. People DO learn quick if their lives depend on it. So "raising a level" is not even that hard to imagine in Ichigos situation. It's extremely hard to believe that an enemy who killed him with his bare hands earlier in the day was suddenly incapable of doing so without drawing his sword. And he was able to keep track with Ulquiorra's movements, unlike in his first battle with him as seen in chapter 341. However I think that with all those battles he went through during that time that it is rather easy imaginable that his senses adapted to it. How is it easily imaginable that he went from being incapable of tracking him to finding him easy to follow? Does anybody have an idea how Ichigo plans to leave Huerto Mundo? After all Aizen closed all the gates which the Shinigami captains used to get in. He's probably going to rip a hole through it with his bare hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eltoshen Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 (edited) Actually, it's even simpler than that. Apparently Ichigo's power fluctuates drastically at different times and depending on the situation. I remember a statement being made about this somewhere in the anime. Edited October 18, 2009 by Eltoshen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunny: spider bitten Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 (edited) Ulq said it after he took Orihime. He said he was stronger than him at peaks, but had so much power he can't control it. Assuming this all makes sense to Kubo and this was planned. His Bankai is supposed to condense his total spiritual pressure. I imagine that's to make the highs more effective - So that power peaks are X times more effective. That said, there is no reason to ignore the mask. Maybe a few people won't notice the change in the mask because they are generally oblivious, but it's obviously different. And while I don't agree with it, after some thought, if Ichigo's mask has multiple stages(whether he can use them or not), then a really short allowance of time for his mask at level 2 will validate how quickly the mask time lengthened and how much more powerful it made him when using his level 1 mask. Even though technically, there wasn't a time frame given, and if the first one use was considered 13 seconds, I'd say most subsequent uses have only been a minute at most. As for Ichigo, Urahara will save them with his gate. Edited October 18, 2009 by bunny: Now with Pancakes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evalcin Posted October 23, 2009 Share Posted October 23, 2009 Update: Ichigo can't seem to be able to use his mask even though his mask is at level 2. While in the middle of nearly being crushed, Byakuya and Kenpachi enter the scene. About damn time. And ditto to what Eltoshen said, thinking of it any deeper than that will just make your head explode Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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