Blackbird Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 (edited) Cord - Doubles with Axes Indeed =P. Would you care to elaborate on Bord a bit? I'm curious now. I'm guessing we can do something with early B axes; Bord's first to the Silver Axe, if we kept him as a Fighter for some reason. @tehnnikil: Kashim = Castor. The name is different depending on the translation. Bord does need to be fielded to give Cord and Barts support, yes. He's pretty mediocre by himself, but keep in mind he also benefits from those supports. With 3x A support and a Killer Weapon, he's got 40% crit. As a horseman, he might have a substantial claim on Killer Bows. He's making Cord and Barts better, too. Edited October 28, 2009 by Blackbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted October 28, 2009 Author Share Posted October 28, 2009 Position has nothing to do with supports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Tarrasque Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Only unit that had their position affected in the SLIGHTEST by support is just Jake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tehnikhil Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Er... could you just tell us what the C word is please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted October 28, 2009 Author Share Posted October 28, 2009 I said it was the letter C, not a word that starts with C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tehnikhil Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Well, I can't really figure it out. Could you please just tell me your argument so I can quickly decide if I am going to argue with it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted October 28, 2009 Author Share Posted October 28, 2009 C Axes. And Bord makes just as good a Hunter, if not better than Kashim. C Axes helps his flexibility since he can afford to go different class setups and return to Warrior if he wants, though I believe Hunter -> General is advocated for both him and Kashim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tehnikhil Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Ah, I see. I will take a quick look at the stats of those tomorrow and then decide if I will debate with you. Thank you for telling me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted October 28, 2009 Author Share Posted October 28, 2009 Only stat Kashim really wins, and this is over time as they level up, is speed (similar bases). While Bord starts with E Bows, he doesn't care when compared to Kashim because his 2 Str lead pushes him to only have 1 less Atk than Kashim with Steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Position has nothing to do with supports. Why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted October 28, 2009 Author Share Posted October 28, 2009 Position has nothing to do with supports. Why not? Why? Do you want it to be?I'm sure it's a factor, I just don't know how big of one it actually is. I am just saying Bord's particular position doesn't have anything to do with supports like people seem to think at first glance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Tarrasque Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Position has nothing to do with supports. Why not? Other than Jake, no support has been shown to make any significant difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 (edited) 10 hit/10 avo doesn't make a difference? And over at the FE6 boards we had people killing themselves over just 1 level of support equivalent to 2 hit/5 avo/5 crit. Edited October 28, 2009 by dondon151 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 In this game, PC/enemy hit is so high that it barely makes a difference. The only way to achieve GBA level avoid is like sticking Cord in a forest with all his support partners in range while having WTA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 (edited) Honestly HunterGeneral is just if we're going to try to use Bord longterm. I'd stick him on Fighter if you just want to use him for utility, which is what a lot of people do anyway. ....Bord does honestly kind of look high, though. And I'm going to Grandjackal myself if I argue him down, aren't I? [see sirius's sig, For some reason I remember arguing up] Edited October 28, 2009 by BBblader Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 In this game, PC/enemy hit is so high that it barely makes a difference. The only way to achieve GBA level avoid is like sticking Cord in a forest with all his support partners in range while having WTA. Higher avo is still beneficial even if it's not reliable avo, but I'm not too concerned about that anyway. I focus on more hit, which does make a difference when you're talking about Hand Axes and stuff (since people seem to complain a lot about that). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbird Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 (edited) Other than Jake, no support has been shown to make any significant difference. I'd argue that the Cord/Barts etc. support makes a difference; it helped a lot on my recent H5 run, and you don't need to do anything special to achieve it, just field units you normally would. The only unit I really went out of my way for was Bord, but looking at the tier list, he's the worst in the group, and still an upper mid tier character. Early on, 3x C support makes accuracy better before everyone gets A axes. 100% hit rate with Hand Axe is good, I get pissed if I need to hit a 70 and whiff it. Later, A support lets you ignore WTD against swords if you want. Having more crit makes you more likely to oneshot tougher enemies on the player phase and avoid taking a counter. The avoid helps too; avoid is actually pretty reliable if you can get a terrain bonus somehow (of course, this game sucks in that regard; tons of empty castles and fields with no cover to speak of). Also, supported Cord can laugh at Killer Bow Snipers and kill them with a Hand Axe. Normally you'd want a General for that kind of thing. I doubt it will do anything to the tier order though; it just makes good characters better. I think, at least, support should be accounted for when it takes little or no effort to get. Abel and Cain + Marth, Shiida + Marth, etc... I'm not gonna cry if Abel gets 10 free crit. Edited October 28, 2009 by Blackbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tehnikhil Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 (edited) Since other people seem to want to debate Bord, I think I will let them :P. I am kinda lazy after all XD. I have another question, though: How come Minerva>Jagen? Both are prepromotes and more or less utility. I know how Minerva can become pretty decent with her speed growth being pretty good and all, but really, Jagen's utility is pretty awesome. Jagen is pretty essential to your team from chapters 1-5. His usefulness begins to end once you get Hardin, but the hardest H5 chapters are the earliest ones, where, IIRC, he can take 3 hits before death by some and then make them eat a heavy counterattack with that awesome silver lance, so others can finish it. Plus, he can still do a few things, even when Hardin is there, since there are 2 silver lances that you will get by chapter 6 (the one wiht Rickard). Granted, once one of the lances breaks, he will have to find another way to be useful, but he still may not exactly be dropped till later on. Minerva comes when your team should already be established. Her stats are pretty comparable to the rest of yoru team otehr than speed, but I am assuming it is that axe that gets her so high. The thing is this: when will that axe be more necessary? In chapters 10-19, aren't those considered the easiest chapters of H5? And then, the braves come into play after and give you hell. So, in otehr words, Minerva comes in at a time when a short term utility character like her is unessecary. Jagen is there when he is necessary. Come the brave chapters, Minerva should be outclassed now. Oh, and also, why is Horace so high? I mean, tanks are great in H5 and all, but since you already have Sedgar/Wolf and a few others who make pretty decent tanks, why bother with someone who doesn't turn out good? Edited October 29, 2009 by tehnikhil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Francis York Morgan Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 (edited) Minerva has decent enough stats/ranks to begin with. I've used her and while she is outclassed by others the key here is she is still useful and dracoknight allows for all sorts of weird and effective strategies. Oh, and also, why is Horace so high? I mean, tanks are great in H5 and all, but since you already have Sedgar/Wolf and a few others who make pretty decent tanks, why bother with someone who doesn't turn out good? Sedgar/Wolf exist. Why bother tiering anyone else then? You can't do that in a tier list. It denies 80% of the cast the very right to exist. It would just be a best characters topic. And horace has an actual strength stat as well as good lance rank on top of decent enough speed/hp. He can pull tanking pretty good for a while and we don't need a promo item for him. Edited October 29, 2009 by Lancelot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tehnikhil Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 (edited) XD. I kinda forgot about taht about Sedgar and Wolf. Thanks for reminding me XD. Also, Jagen is actually essential, while, after Minerva breaks her axe or continues on the chapters while everyone catches up, she is pretty bad and loses a lot of her use. Also, could you please tell me a wierd and effective strategy that Minerva can do? I mean, it is difficult for me to compare these two because they are never used together, but, I would say that for a few chapters, after Jagen breaks his lance (or he can change into a draco and still have B lances, even better), he could also class change into a draco and do your "wierd and awesome" strategies. Edited October 29, 2009 by tehnikhil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candlejack Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 XD. I kinda forgot about taht about Sedgar and Wolf. Thanks for reminding me XD. Also, Jagen is actually essential, while, after Minerva breaks her axe or continues on the chapters while everyone catches up, she is pretty bad and loses a lot of her use. Also, could you please tell me a wierd and effective strategy that Minerva can do? I mean, it is difficult for me to compare these two because they are never used together, but, I would say that for a few chapters, after Jagen breaks his lance (or he can change into a draco and still have B lances, even better), he could also class change into a draco and do your "wierd and awesome" strategies. Jagen Rotation for me is: Jagen-Wendell-Minerva. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tehnikhil Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 That is how it is for many I believe. But, a lot of people use Wendell and Jagen at the same time. Hell, until one of the silver lances break (and maybe for a little bit after), even Hardin and Jagen. But, the early Jagen is more necessary because of his ability to make enemies eat heavy counterattacks. Plus, Draug and Ogma are your only other guys who are solid enough to take 2/3 hits (Draug may get doubled though, and Ogma can't do that aganist some, although Jagen may not either). Jagen and Ogma give heavy counters (Ogma doubling, Jagen silver lance), but Ogma can't be everywhere. That is where Jagen comes in. Plus, that insane 10 move is actually very helpful in pinch situations, and his ability to nearly 1 shot many early on can help when something like a missed hand axe attack which puts someone into danger of enemy counter death. Jagen probably will be able to reach whatever the issue is, no matter where it is (barring Hardin and Co in chapter 5) WHat it seems to boil down to is this: Minerva's slight Jageness when not 100% needed+okayish figher vs. An incredible early on fighter who sucks terribly later on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted October 29, 2009 Author Share Posted October 29, 2009 (edited) People stopped putting so much weight on necessity awhile back. In fact, you should be thanking me that Jeigan is still in Upper Mid, and kissing my feet that Oguma is still as high as he is. Edited October 29, 2009 by FE3 Player Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbird Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 after Minerva breaks her axe or continues on the chapters while everyone catches up, she is pretty bad and loses a lot of her use. I ran Minerva til endgame in my recent H5 game as a Sniper, and she did well enough. She never really got above average, but she's viable for the rest of the game, which is more than you can say about some of the prepromotes in the game. Decent character + needs no promotion item/less cost makes her pretty playable in my book, given the competition for master seals in this game. Minerva's not essential like Jeigan, though. Beating the first few chapters without Jeigan would be really tedious, your team is significantly worse without his ability to take more than 2 hits =). I fell into the "Jeigan and Wendell" camp, too. You can extend Jeigan's use a lot by reclassing him into Dracoknight for C4, and even to Sniper after that. Come to think of it, I benched Jeigan about the time I got Minerva =P... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candlejack Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 People stopped putting so much weight on necessity awhile back. In fact, you should be thanking me that Jeigan is still in Upper Mid, and kissing my feet that Oguma is still as high as he is. Oguma is an awesome unit on his own; necessity doesn't really apply to him since he's incredibly useful for combat. And Jagen is Jagen; in H5, he is your godsend of a wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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