Stuff they shoud add in the next game

[Krevin]

Brawl is a fighting game marketed as a party game.

tl;dr version:

It has fighting game elements, but it sucks as a competitive fighter, kinda like SC3 and MK vs. DC are.

This is why Brawl is a fighter, just not a competitive one:

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=...mp;postcount=45

Two main points:

Push and Pull: Yeah that's the spacing between enemies, but it still applies to FFA with items on games. You want to try to hit the next guy without getting hit yourself. This can be done with utilizing the stage, items, and the like to gain an advantage against your opponent.

For example: I am up against three people on Hyrule Temple. I suck, and the three I am playing against are good. It's a stock match and I am down to my last stock. If I want to gain some more control in the match and have a shot at winning, I can go on the bottom of Hyrule, since it's tough to kill me because of its walls. I have now utilized the field to my advantage.

Now that I am down in the bottom, I want to gain a shot at beating them off. I can turn the tide if a hammer appears in front of me. Or if they are extremely aggressive, I can shield/roll away from them, then hit them when they are vunerable. That right there is Punishment.

Main Point?

Mario Party is a party game because it is random. Rolling my die is random and that is the deciding factor whether you win or lose, because it determines how far I move, how many events I can partake in, or how items I get. The only skill-based thing in Mario Party is the minigames, but even that has some luck elements in it, since it's not exactly constant.

Brawl is not. Party games are almost 100% luck-based.

I stopped here. Brawl IS a party game because it was marketed to engage a large number of players and allow them to enjoy the game regardless of skill level. Now, I'm not trying to say that it's not a fighting game or that skill can't throw the match or anything of the sort, but things like items and FFAs and the like change the need for skill. If I'm playing 1v1 or 2v2, no items and no ridiculously unbalanced stages, then I can say "I won because of a combination of tech skill, character matchups, mindgames, and stage advantages", or that I lost because of those things. If I'm playing a 4-player match on Rumble Falls with items on, I can no longer say that it was only the controllable variables that were in my favor, but instead it becomes "I won because I got the smash ball and killed everybody twice each" or "I lost because one of my enemies threw a pitfall at me and another enemy followed up with a bob-omb". And since nobody has control over where the items will spawn, and because certain levels limit the need for tech skill and alter the metagame, Brawl can turn from a semi-competitive platform fighter into a lolzy party game. Not that there's anything wrong with either way of playing, itemfests can be jolly good fun but are usually shortlived, and competitive play seems to be more rewarding while having less immediate gratification.

[Clonez]

The market has nothing to do with how the game plays. Melee was marketed the same way Brawl was.

Yes it is different from say a Mario Party game. It does take skill to grab that smashball or throw that pitfall, but just nearly not as much as pillaring with Falco or waveshining with Fox.

It takes skill to hit that smashball and get it. You have to know how to attack numerous times in the air. You have to keep the smashball away from other people who are trying to do the same thing. Even if you get it, there's people trying to get that smashball off of you, so you have to press that B button asap.

It also takes skill to pillar with Falco because you have to first know JC shines to dair to utilt and the like, but you're a Melee player and that's a given.

There is still that skill element that is still the basis of smash. Mario Party is a party game because the main deciding factor of the game is 100% random (a die), while Smash still requires skil.

If M2K went against Person#47 and decided to go on Rumble Falls and play with items high, even though Person#47 will take some stocks/matches off of M2K, M2K will still probably win the majority of the matches.

Also if Person#47 went against Person#86 and Person#86 has never play the game and thus doesn't know the basic controls, Person#47 will probably win the majority of the matches, even though he's not on the same level as M2K because he knows the controls.

Mario Party is different. All you need to do is press A when a die pops up and you already have a shot at winning. Unless you don't know where the A button is, I think it's safe to say that most people that pick up the controller have a fair shot at winning.

Edited January 28, 2009 by Clonez

[Krevin]

The market has nothing to do with how the game plays. Melee was marketed the same way Brawl was.

No. Melee was marketed as a fighting game first, party game second. Brawl was marketed as a party game first, adventure game second, mini-game game third, and a fighting game fourth.

Yes it is different from say a Mario Party game. It does take skill to grab that smashball or throw that pitfall, but just nearly not as much as pillaring with Falco or waveshining with Fox.

It takes skill to hit that smashball and get it. You have to know how to attack numerous times in the air. You have to keep the smashball away from other people who are trying to do the same thing. Even if you get it, there's people trying to get that smashball off of you, so you have to press that B button asap.

In that sense, it takes skill to hit the dice block, or to plan out how you're going to get the star before everyone else, and it takes skill to win most of the minigames in Mario Party. And considering Ike is one of the most popular characters among non-tourneyfags, it doesn't require you to attack numerous times in the air. One of the other people will hit it lightly and it'll float over to you, and then fair breaks it right open. It might take a small amount of skill, but it's such an insignificant amount that all you really need is a basic idea of how the game is played.

It also takes skill to pillar with Falco because you have to first know JC shines to dair to utilt and the like, but you're a Melee player and that's a given.

I never said it didn't take skill to pillar. In fact, I was getting at the exact opposite.

There is still that skill element that is still the basis of smash. Mario Party is a party game because the main deciding factor of the game is 100% random (a die), while Smash still requires skil.

Once again, Mario Party has minigames, the majority of which are NOT 100% random. If they were 100% random then the computer players wouldn't have different difficulty levels.

If M2K went against Person#47 and decided to go on Rumble Falls and play with items high, even though Person#47 will take some stocks/matches off of M2K, M2K will still probably win the majority of the matches.

Did you even read my post? My point wasn't that "Items make it a game that doesn't require skill", it was that "items decrease the need for skill". Of course a skilled player is always going to have the advantage of being a skilled player, but items, multiple enemies, and a few stages DECREASE the need for skill. They don't get rid of the need altogether, mind you, they just make it easier for Person #47 to beat M2K.

Also if Person#47 went against Person#86 and Person#86 has never play the game and thus doesn't know the basic controls, Person#47 will probably win the majority of the matches, even though he's not on the same level as M2K because he knows the controls.

No shit, that's a given in ANY game. Learning the controls is a basic requirement to winning.

Mario Party is different. All you need to do is press A when a die pops up and you already have a shot at winning. Unless you don't know where the A button is, I think it's safe to say that most people that pick up the controller have a fair shot at winning.

You also have to learn what items to use when, as well as how to play each mini-game.

And "Mario Party is easier to learn than Brawl" isn't sufficient evidence to prove that "Brawl is not a party game".

[General Spoon]

Digimon.

[Raven]

Digimon.

Digimon Rumble Arena.

As for Brawl, even the guys who I live with at Uni often want a good fight on Brawl. They don't own Wii's or Brawl themselves, so it means that Brawl appeals to many people, even outside of the fanbase. I see it as a party game and a fighting game, because we can all Brawl for hours and not get bored of kicking shit out of eachother, because it's fun. Even if one of us does Thunder spam with Pikachu alot.

[Rei Rei]

Downloadable features, like new attires ie:Blood Falcon's outfit for Captain Falcon, Shiny "outfit" for Pikachu...

[Media Junkie]

Downloadable features, like new attires ie:Blood Falcon's outfit for Captain Falcon, Shiny "outfit" for Pikachu...

Except there's been a Blood Falcon outfit since 64.

Also, leaderboards and ranked matches need to be added

[Rei Rei]

Except there's been a Blood Falcon outfit since 64.

Also, leaderboards and ranked matches need to be added

But it's just the colors, he still has the little Falcon in his helmet.

I wanted him to have the spiked shoulder pads, the skull in the helmet and shits.

Or maybe a

Ryu Suzaku/Rick Wheeler Cap. Falcon outfit(it's a little different)

[Fox]

Also, and I think someone just mentioned this, more in-depth changes to character skins would be nice. Last-minute recolors of character models are boring and last-minute. That way you could still slip in characters like Dr. Mario without them occupying that extra roster spot. They did this with Wario, and I'd like to see it incorporated a little more extensively in a possible future release. And when are they going to change Samus' Varia Suit to resemble the one from the Prime series, instead of the one from Super Metroid?

[Ragnell]

I would like to see Dark Samus, Hector, and several new stages. I was thinking a stage based on the Fracktail fight in Super Paper Mario, where you fight on the ground, then on the dragon, then flip to a different view (3D) would be cool. And I really want to see more than 9 FE trophies. How is it that a series with about 50 playable characters per game gets less trophies than Mario, which has about 10 characters total?

Oh, and more alternate costumes like Wario's. I really, really wanted to play as lord Ike. Or Vanguard... really.

Edited February 7, 2009 by Urvan

[Rei Rei]

They did this with Wario, and I'd like to see it incorporated a little more extensively in a possible future release. And when are they going to change Samus' Varia Suit to resemble the one from the Prime series, instead of the one from Super Metroid?

Or the one in Zero Mission for that matter. Chozo Suit would be good too, and Samus 1st Suit in Super Metroid.

Also an Edit Mode on the skins would be good, like 1 or 2 slots for your personal skin...

[Media Junkie]

You know what, they should put Aiai from Super Monkey Ball in the next Smash Bros, if not as a character, then at least as an assist trophy.

[Florete]

Needs more Fire Emblem characters *was originally hoping for Micaiah*.

Also, I can't see Ridley working as a playable character. It just does not seem right to me. And I'm a hardcore Metroid fan.

Also, tougher unlockables. lolStickers.

[Masu]

LLoyd.Fucking.Irving.

[DeSu]

LLoyd.Fucking.Irving.

WORD.

Also, EXTRA FRICKING COSTUMES GODDAMMIT!

They need to add Megaman X as well. He's pimpin' AND the original X was SNES. X iscooler than normal Megaman too >_<. Or at least ZX, for the GBA series.

And NEEDS MOAR STAMINA MODE.

[Starwolf_UK]

Also, and I think someone just mentioned this, more in-depth changes to character skins would be nice. Last-minute recolors of character models are boring and last-minute. That way you could still slip in characters like Dr. Mario without them occupying that extra roster spot. They did this with Wario, and I'd like to see it incorporated a little more extensively in a possible future release. And when are they going to change Samus' Varia Suit to resemble the one from the Prime series, instead of the one from Super Metroid?

That is what I came in to say. I've been saying it since when Melee first came out.

As for stuff to add. Well more options Turn off stage hazards would be much welcome. Spear Pillar might be enjoyable then rather than "Oh god the controls reversed and...I'm dead...again" or "I've died more times to Creselias razor blades of doom than I have to you".

Edited February 11, 2009 by Starwolf_UK

[Liz]

As for stuff to add. Well more options Turn off stage hazards would be much welcome. Spear Pillar might be enjoyable then rather than "Oh god the controls reversed and...I'm dead...again" or "I've died more times to Creselias razor blades of doom than I have to you".

that was the only reason i liked that stage!

:(

[Krevin]

Turn off caves of immortality and Spear Pillar would be fun.

[Herr Wozzeck]

As for stuff to add. Well more options Turn off stage hazards would be much welcome. Spear Pillar might be enjoyable then rather than "Oh god the controls reversed and...I'm dead...again" or "I've died more times to Creselias razor blades of doom than I have to you".

Actually, I like stage hazards since they add to the element of "WTF" that's inherent throughout Smash. Plus, they had stage hazards in the previous two installments (Saffron City, the Mushroom Kingdom, and most of the Melee stages say hi), so it wouldn't make much sense for them to take out stage hazards in any future installments.

[TripleJ]

No. More. Third. Party. Characters. It's a Nintendo fighting game.

I disagree, it may indeed be a Nintendo fighting game, but it would also be nice to have third party characters like Sonic in, Even if Sonic is too weak...

Edited February 15, 2009 by Vero711

[General Spoon]

I disagree, it may indeed be a Nintendo fighting game, but it would also be nice to have third party characters like Sonic in, Even if Sonic is too weak...

Togemon!

[TripleJ]

Togemon!

I actually had to use Google to figure out what Digimon you were talking about; The image didn't load,

and I don't exactly know much about Digimon anymore.

But back on topic.

Here's some stuff they should add in the next game:

Shadow as a playable character, as long as he isnt a Sonic clone, he'll be great.

Mewtwo must return, even if dosen't get any improvements; I'd use him anyway.

If Mewtwo does return, they should either give him a new Side Special/Down Special, or improve them.

Make the CPU's AI mor like Melee's

(In Brawl they act a lot like it's a team match, and don't get me started on custom stages).

Gannondorf; give him a useable sword(or, at least give him an alternate moveset where he uses his sword).

They should at least weaken Metaknight to a small degree, but please don't Nerf him.

I know they'll do it anyway.

Give Wolf unique Neutral Special, Side Special and Down Special moves.

Add a third Fire Emblem character; preferably a non-sword user, but please, don't replace Ike.

Allow more customizeabillity to custom stages(I hate how I can't put two 'Structures' right next to eachother, how is it they take up so much space?).

[Leyla Garcia]

I generally agree with what most people are saying here. I'd like there to be at least three characters from each series. In Fire Emblem's case I'd really like a third character. Even if it is *twitch* Micaiah *twitch. Even though it won't happen, I wouldn't mind seeing Lyndis or Roy as playable characters.

More random stages ^^ Spear Pillar is so much fun. I laugh my head off whenever I see people get Shoop'd on that stage or when the stage is flipped upside down.

More third party characters: Not that I play non Nintendo things anyway, but I still enjoyed having Sonic and Snake? Snake! Snaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaake! in Brawl.

Downloadable content: Like music, costumes, characters, etc. And speaking of music I'd like for there to be a way to add your own custom tracks....won't happen but yeah. This was inspired by an awesome remix of some Pokemon music I found on youtube.

I generally suck at getting tougher unlockables. Say what you will about me but I still haven't unlocked Toon Link or Jigglypuff, and there are three events I just can't beat even on easy mode. So I don't actually have Spear Pillar or Hanenbow yet ;.;

[Leyla Garcia]

I generally agree with what most people are saying here. I'd like there to be at least three characters from each series. In Fire Emblem's case I'd really like a third character. Even if it is *twitch* Micaiah *twitch. Even though it won't happen, I wouldn't mind seeing Lyndis or Roy as playable characters.

More random stages ^^ Spear Pillar is so much fun. I laugh my head off whenever I see people get Shoop'd on that stage or when the stage is flipped upside down.

More third party characters: Not that I play non Nintendo things anyway, but I still enjoyed having Sonic and Snake? Snake! Snaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaake! in Brawl.

Downloadable content: Like music, costumes, characters, etc. And speaking of music I'd like for there to be a way to add your own custom tracks....won't happen but yeah. This was inspired by an awesome remix of some Pokemon music I found on youtube.

I generally suck at getting tougher unlockables. Say what you will about me but I still haven't unlocked Toon Link or Jigglypuff, and there are three events I just can't beat even on easy mode. So I don't actually have Spear Pillar or Hanenbow yet ;.;

[TripleJ]

Downloadable content: Like music, costumes, characters, etc. And speaking of music I'd like for there to be a way to add your own custom tracks....won't happen but yeah. This was inspired by an awesome remix of some Pokemon music I found on youtube.

Being someone who dosen't have Wifi.

NO

I would like to see more customizeable content though, like importing music, or maybe a Character creator?

Then again music importing could end up with horrid custom stages with even worse songs playing on them.

Character creation would either be hard to do or just end up with horrid clones or broken characters.