Kriemhild Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 I'm not sure about seeking only the pleasures of the afterlife. There are passages from the Koran that say God has made the world for our enjoyment, so we shouldn't be isolating ourselves from it. You're faltering if you only focus on this world. Enjoying what this world has to offer while also planting seeds for the other is the way to go.In fact, I think isolation from the pleasures of this world is a sin. Sorry about that. It was a mistake. The word "only" shouldn't have been there. It was either in the Quran or the Hadith where it was clearly stated that we can still enjoy anything in this world provided we don't transgress the Islamic laws. If I actually believed we weren't allowed to seek worldly pleasures then I wouldn't be in a forum about a video game franchise right now. Isolation from worldly pleasures isn't a sin as far as I remember. But having no desire for worldly pleasures is actually good since you'll be resistant to the corruption. Uh, yes you can. The same way if a Christian slaughters a bunch of innocents, they're still Christian, if a Buddhist rapes dozens of women, they're still Buddhist, and so on. I think what he meant was that they aren't true Muslims, since they're violating the laws of Islam. Nightmare pretty much explained it. They can call them Muslims and even have the belief about one God and everything but they still won't be Muslims if they intentionally kill an innocent person until they repent. And they won't repent unless they know that what they did was wrong. So if they claim it was for their religion, then they won't be Muslims until they realize what they really did. I don't know too much about this subject though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esau of Isaac Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 (edited) Nightmare pretty much explained it. They can call them Muslims and even have the belief about one God and everything but they still won't be Muslims if they intentionally kill an innocent person until they repent. And they won't repent unless they know that what they did was wrong. So if they claim it was for their religion, then they won't be Muslims until they realize what they really did. I don't know too much about this subject though. So essentially, they could say they were Muslims, and they would not be true Muslims As has already been shown recently, in this topic or another. Edited March 3, 2009 by Esau of Isaac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YokaiKnight Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 I think what he meant was that they aren't true Muslims, since they're violating the laws of Islam.Then this makes the vast majority of what we'd consider Muslims actually unaffiliated, since most members of a religion have broken some tenet or another at a point in their lives.Nightmare pretty much explained it. They can call them Muslims and even have the belief about one God and everything but they still won't be Muslims if they intentionally kill an innocent person until they repent. And they won't repent unless they know that what they did was wrong. So if they claim it was for their religion, then they won't be Muslims until they realize what they really did. I don't know too much about this subject though.Again, if any Muslims have broken some part of their religion and haven't repented for it, then they aren't Muslims as well, which is silly. You're Muslim if you fall under the general set of beliefs and practices; you're not suddenly "un-Muslim" if you don't follow just any one of them.Don't think I'm trying to blame Islam for murderous actions; I'm not. I'm just saying that being a murderer isn't a "get out of Islam free" pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriemhild Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Then this makes the vast majority of what we'd consider Muslims actually unaffiliated, since most members of a religion have broken some tenet or another at a point in their lives.Again, if any Muslims have broken some part of their religion and haven't repented for it, then they aren't Muslims as well, which is silly. You're Muslim if you fall under the general set of beliefs and practices; you're not suddenly "un-Muslim" if you don't follow just any one of them. Don't think I'm trying to blame Islam for murderous actions; I'm not. I'm just saying that being a murderer isn't a "get out of Islam free" pass. You really don't get this, do you? It's not the fact that they commited the crime, or whether it was intentional or not, or even whether they repent or not, but the important thing is that they think that what they have done is acceptable by Islam. Not just acceptable but they think they HAVE to do it as an Islamic law. They are twisting our religion. But I agree with Esau of Isaac. They're just not true muslims. It was even said that when a Muslim leader that rules with Islamic law adds even one innovation to the law, then the people should overthrow him. Even if this leader follows and encourages every other practice and rule of Islam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inactive Account Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 I think the main problem concerning religion is that people don't actually follow the values they claim to believe in. For example, in Christianity, we are taught that one of the most important things in life is to love our neighbors as ourselves, yet there are poor souls out there trying to claim that God hates certain groups. People tend to think themselves infallible because of their religion, and look down on people who do not belong. Of course, this is usually the opposite of what their religion teaches. The problem is not the religion, but peoples' closed minds, which do not require a religion or a lack of religion to cause problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jyosua Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Die Religion ist der Seufzer der bedrängten Kreatur, das Gemüt einer herzlosen Welt, wie sie der Geist geistloser Zustände ist. Sie ist das Opium des Volkes. That said, I believe religion acts as a safety net for those who are to afraid to even conceptualize the possibility of there not being anything more to life than just living and dying. However, I also believe it is impossible to prove or disprove God, thereby making it foolish to try to do so. Religion is based on faith, which in itself means believing without knowing. faith –noun 2. belief that is not based on proof That said, when one takes religion and confides in it as a hardbound fact, they tend to stray down the wrong path, in many cases straying from the very beliefs of the faith they call their own. My own beliefs are firm agnosticism, however I believe in hoping for something more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doom103 Posted March 3, 2009 Author Share Posted March 3, 2009 I disagree, it doesn't not make them true Muslims, it just makes them hypocritical. Different things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jyosua Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 I didn't say they weren't muslims. I was calling them hypocritical. And I didn't even refer to muslims, though that's one example. Hmm. I think you were replying to me, but you didn't quote anyone, so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmare Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 In other words, they're only Muslim by name, not by heart, if you get what I mean. Or basically, what Esau posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YokaiKnight Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 You really don't get this, do you? It's not the fact that they commited the crime, or whether it was intentional or not, or even whether they repent or not, but the important thing is that they think that what they have done is acceptable by Islam. Not just acceptable but they think they HAVE to do it as an Islamic law. They are twisting our religion.Like Doom said, that makes them hypocritical instead.They're just not true muslims.Maybe I'd be less hung up on this if you said ideal rather than true. Minor point though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der Kommissar Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Am I going to have to break out the No True Scotsman fallacy again? Surely you know better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriemhild Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 In Islam, the worst people are the hypocrites. They are even worse than those who don't believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolDeath Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Yeah, and we get killed for it, lmao. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriemhild Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Yeah, and we get killed for it, lmao. I said this before. Killing an innocent person is violating the laws of Islam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esau of Isaac Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Am I going to have to break out the No True Scotsman fallacy again? Surely you know better. Already did :V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der Kommissar Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Already did :V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolDeath Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 I said this before. Killing an innocent person is violating the laws of Islam. I did not say otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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