Efficiency Tier List?

[grandjackal]

Allen went from ORKOing on the isles to ORKOing on the isles, Lance went from 2RKOing to 2RKOing, Noah went from crap to unsalvageable crap. They may have shinier stats, but it didn't actually help their overall performance. In exchange, I gave them slower leveling speeds which essentially dooms them later on.

Where's enemy stats for this game?

http://fe.dead-end.biz/fe6hmstats.html

Half-assed I know, but it's all we got.

On teh front page, I should rework the links for everything else...

EDIT: All links fixed.

Edited September 19, 2009 by Kuja

[CATS]

Okay, so looking at those samples, where did you get the idea that Allen and Lance's offense is unchanged by promo gains? I'm seeing 9 Spd on the Ch 9 Axe enemies, and Allen doesn't reach 13 Spd until L16-17. Maybe they all have Steel Axes or something, but even then Lance is still definitely benefitting. L12 Lance has 9.4 Str, so even w/ Steel and +2 Atk support, he fails to consistently 2HKO these axe enemies (30-32 Hp and 4-5 Def).

[grandjackal]

Okay, so looking at those samples, where did you get the idea that Allen and Lance's offense is unchanged by promo gains? I'm seeing 9 Spd on the Ch 9 Axe enemies, and Allen doesn't reach 13 Spd until L16-17. Maybe they all have Steel Axes or something, but even then Lance is still definitely benefitting. L12 Lance has 9.4 Str, so even w/ Steel and +2 Atk support, he fails to consistently 2HKO these axe enemies (30-32 Hp and 4-5 Def).

Realistic levels for the cavs appear to be 12. Allen doesn't get 13 speed from the knight's crest. As for Lance, I could promote Barth and be doing just the same without supports or the effort of training Lance.

On top of this with the slower leveling, Lance will get strength at a slower pace, Allen speed. It might have marginal benefits now, but it screws them in the long run, especially Allen.

You're better off just giving Lance an Energy Ring and Allen a Speed Wing. Besides, it's not like they suck then anyways. At least Barth becomes substantially more useful instantly from it's use. It's an option he has. I mean come on, with instant use and becoming this good in performance, you honestly think RAY is doing better?

...Then again, I do think Ray is underrated anyways, so perhaps I'm a tad mixed up. Fine, better than Garret?

[CATS]

Realistic levels for the cavs appear to be 12. Allen doesn't get 13 speed from the knight's crest. As for Lance, I could promote Barth and be doing just the same without supports or the effort of training Lance.

On top of this with the slower leveling, Lance will get strength at a slower pace, Allen speed. It might have marginal benefits now, but it screws them in the long run, especially Allen.

You're better off just giving Lance an Energy Ring and Allen a Speed Wing. Besides, it's not like they suck then anyways. At least Barth becomes substantially more useful instantly from it's use. It's an option he has. I mean come on, with instant use and becoming this good in performance, you honestly think RAY is doing better?

...Then again, I do think Ray is underrated anyways, so perhaps I'm a tad mixed up. Fine, better than Garret?

"Without supports or the effort of training Lance?" As if neither Lance nor his supports should be used?

"You're better off just giving Lance an Energy Ring and Allen a Speed Wing?" As if the opportunity cost of a Knight Crest can be denied by allocating items which have even bigger opportunity costs?

What sort of arguments are these?

"Allen doesn't get 13 speed from the knight's crest"--Actually, he does. L12 Allen has 11 Spd and his promo gain is 2.

"it screws them in the long run"--Those lowered Exp gains apply to Barth too. He's also gaining stats at a slower pace. If making the tradeoff of lowered Exp gains for higher immediate stats is worthwhile for Barth, then presumably it's worthwhile for others aswell.

[grandjackal]

"Without supports or the effort of training Lance?" As if neither Lance nor his supports should be used?

Wrong, as things can go awry. What if Lance gets screwed? We'd need a safety, right? What if I don't want to use Allen (as likely as it is)? Again, only reason he's got "durability" (in avoid) and offense is because of his supports. Barth at the least takes no effort and no supports.

"You're better off just giving Lance an Energy Ring and Allen a Speed Wing?" As if the opportunity cost of a Knight Crest can be denied by allocating items which have even bigger opportunity costs?

It gives us the same exact results, difference being it only makes them even better in the long run as opposed to worse.

"Allen doesn't get 13 speed from the knight's crest"--Actually, he does. L12 Allen has 11 Spd and his promo gain is 2.

He has 10.

"it screws them in the long run"--Those lowered Exp gains apply to Barth too. He's also gaining stats at a slower pace. If making the tradeoff of lowered Exp gains for higher immediate stats is worthwhile for Barth, then presumably it's worthwhile for others aswell.

Allen stopped doubling, Lance doesn't hit hard enough, Barth doesn't really change as the growths he specializes in are utter overkill. You also keep dodging hte fact that this does in fact make him all the better in the isles, of which helps him get to lategame anyways. Otherwise, he wasn't even gonna see it. Now he has a fair reason to be there. Sacae for example. Do tell me what good promoting Allen and Lance does there? Allen is most likely getting doubled now. Lance isn't doing dicklick. Barth...Is still invincible, still hits back hard enough. You seem to underestimate how good these boosts are to him.

It's sort of like Thany. Promoting her early she went from fast though perhaps weak to fast and perhaps weak now with better weapon control and ranks. Not everyone benefits equally from an early promo. Tate for example for that. Noah is another, same with Treck, Lou, you get the point.

Edited September 19, 2009 by Kuja

[CATS]

I was going to counter your post, but then I realized that you're seriously trying to defend the position of "just slap a stat booster on Allen/Lance and it's all good, problem solved."

Edited September 19, 2009 by CATS

[grandjackal]

It seems to be the entire point of you arguing for their early promotion, as those stat boosters get basically the same results. By no means was I arguing it, but rather saying to use the crest to basically get slower level gains in exchange for what basically a single stat booster would do for the same results.

So you would prefer to basically use the knight's crest to get returns so marginal they're barely noticeable along with screwing them out of a good lategame...Than give it to someone who actually changes substantially? You're basically saying the knight's crest should go to Allen or Lance because it's fun to watch the numbers flash.

Edited September 19, 2009 by Kuja

[dondon151]

1 route has no ring and speedwings in the middle of ch11, which is too late, so to speak.

[grandjackal]

Does this all change the fact that it's possible to get such a performance out of Barth while the paladins hardly have changed in exchange they are now worse off for later in the game? Why do it for the paladins when they just become slightly better but in exchange become significantly worse later on?

Fine, it's useless to argue it. Apparently having worse units later on doesn't matter for some mysterious reason, all in the name of keeping Barth in low. Seriously he can just use this and bam, he's suddenly able to do his job properly. Like for example, I have no idea why he's below Garret. All this because it's a sin to promote people later despite how much they'd prefer to do so.

Shall I drop him because doing anything with him is a pure waste of time?

[Mekkah]

Alan and Lance also don't have to promote early to benefit from the Knight Crest gotten in Ch8. They might want to promote at 16/0, for example, which is possibly still in Ch12 or Ch13 or so. But if Barth takes the crest, they can't promote at all until Ch16, and fuck that.

Wrong, as things can go awry. What if Lance gets screwed? We'd need a safety, right? What if I don't want to use Allen (as likely as it is)? Again, only reason he's got "durability" (in avoid) and offense is because of his supports. Barth at the least takes no effort and no supports.

"What if Lance gets [spd] screwed beyond belief" is the only way Lance can really become so bad that he's likely to get dumped, or at least not worth promoting. That's about as likely as Barth not getting str at all or something. Because Lance/Alan/Roy support + WTC is something they will have regardless of RNG, which is essentially enough to survive and hit hard always.

And the other side of the coin of having (taking? you mean like requiring? wtf) no supports is that Barth doesn't benefit anyone with them.

Allen stopped doubling, Lance doesn't hit hard enough

Your numbers please?

You're basically saying the knight's crest should go to Allen or Lance because it's fun to watch the numbers flash.

No, that's not what he ever said.

And your avatar is still awful.

[Colonel M]

Well your avatar doesn't exist. [/sarcasm].

How did Fa go over Niime again?

Edited September 20, 2009 by Colonel M

[Dat Nick]

Inb4 Jackal IMs me thinking he's convincing people...

Well your avatar doesn't exist. [/sarcasm].

I miss the fat lady falling down the stairs D:

How did Fa go over Niime again?

...I concur

Staff utility>Fa, at first glance anyway, and isn't Niime OHKOing Mamkutes with Apocalypse or something?

Edited September 20, 2009 by Joker

[Mekkah]

She is, but she "can't use it" as in she's literally never getting to S dark. Well, maybe if you expose her a LOT while having Nosferatu equipped, but then she's just hindering your offense too much for it to be a positive trade-off when she could have been just using staves. imo using staves and occasionally countering with Nosferatu whenever you absolutely have to expose Niime >>>>> using it a lot, hindering your offense in many earlier chapters just to have an extra Mamkute killer is a bad deal. Especially since almost everyone you're bringing into the final can ORKO Mamkutes and their density is low (3 per room at most), so usually you'll want someone else to attack and Niime to heal anyway.

Doesn't mean she's worse than Fa though. Fa can't even one-shot Mamkutes iirc.

[grandjackal]

Alan and Lance also don't have to promote early to benefit from the Knight Crest gotten in Ch8. They might want to promote at 16/0, for example, which is possibly still in Ch12 or Ch13 or so. But if Barth takes the crest, they can't promote at all until Ch16, and fuck that.

If we're waiting that long anyways, we might as well wait for chapter 16. By then, the isles would be over anyways, which is plenty of time missing where I COULD have had a unit performing far better than usual.

"What if Lance gets [spd] screwed beyond belief" is the only way Lance can really become so bad that he's likely to get dumped, or at least not worth promoting. That's about as likely as Barth not getting str at all or something. Because Lance/Alan/Roy support + WTC is something they will have regardless of RNG, which is essentially enough to survive and hit hard always.

1. This is ignoring the fact that Barth is always as good as he is at that time while Lance is not garunteed to be, so Barth in a way can be considered a safety unit. I'm serious when I say "Think Horace".

2. If that's all Lance needs, why does he need an early promotion ANYWAYS?

And the other side of the coin of having (taking? you mean like requiring? wtf) no supports is that Barth doesn't benefit anyone with them.

True, but there is such a thing as being dependent on them. I believe it's what got Miledy her position, and what dropped Echidna from hers.

Your numbers please?

Fair enough.

12/3 Allen

35 HP, 14 Str, 11 Skill, 13 Speed, 8 Luck, 11 Defense, 4 Res

17 Allen

34 HP, 14 Str, 10 Skill, 13 Speed, 9 Luck, 10 Def, 1 Res

I'd estimate this by the bridge. Performance is nigh identical. Considering I have no reason to field him in the desert, he should hit level 20 by chapter 16 anyways. So far, you have basically just changed him little on the isles, and he would compare the same by now anyways. To compare then.

12/5 Allen

36 HP, 15 Str, 12 Skill, 14 Speed, 9 Luck, 11 Def, 4 Res

20/1 Noah

39 HP, 13 Str, 14 Skill, 14 Speed, 11 Luck, 12 Def, 5 Res

20/1 Allen

40 HP, 17 Str, 13 Skill, 16 Speed, 10 Luck, 12 Def, 4 Res

The former struggles to double Ilian steel lance pegasi, while the latter has a chance to double javelin pegasi. The former cannot double hand axers at the start of Ilia route, can't double javelin cavs. The former can double these things. The former gets 2RKOd by 22 mt mages, the latter 3RKOd. The former gets doubled by 18 AS nomads in Sacae, of which is pretty much the weakest there. With 16 mt, they would 3RKO him, turning him into swiss cheese. They need to land 10 on the latter. Again, that's just the bare weakest. The former cannot ORKO the 41 HP 14 Def Wyverns even with a silver lance and all his supports around, and cannot double the javeliners. The former can double them no matter what. For fuck's sakes, Noah's doing better than the former. So far, you have reduced Allen to lower mid performance.

Fastforward to level 21.

12/12 Allen

42 HP, 18 Str, 14 Skill, 17 Speed, 11 Luck, 13 Def, 5 Res

20/7 Allen

45 HP, 20 Str, 16 Skill, 19 Speed, 13 Luck, 14 Def, 5 Res

The latter is able to ORKO wyverns with a silver lance with his supports around, while the former has no possible way to do so. The latter is a point away from doubling wyvern lords. The former cannot double paladins and sages. The former can't double javelin wyverns.

In fact, if the former is screwed out of a point of speed, he will be doubled by heroes in 22, which could spell potential doom for him if those happen to be the bravers. Noah again is very comparable.

Basically you made him a smidgeon better for the isles and in exchange you gave him the performance of a lower mid guy starting in chapter 16.

Lance it's the same, though instead he's doubling some more but remove 3 Str. There are things even early on he fails to ORKO even with silver, sometimes even with his supports. Inf act, level 12/5 Lance actually fails to double 13 AS paladins with his 16 speed at the start of Ilia route. Could have avoided doubles from troopers in Sacae, but not anymore. 3RKOing paladins with silver and having around 50-60 hit with supports considered to deal considerable damage to troopers who double you (low 50's if we want to counter with javelin) is not what I'd call top tier performance.

What has Barth changed? Well, he still hits hard, though not as hard as he would have if we waited, making him suck through the isles. He's still invincible in Sacae, he still laughs at silver. He wasn't gonna double a damn thing anyways. But, he was far better in the isles with the huge boosts armors get from promotion. Hmmm, who benefits more...

No, that's not what he ever said.

I know, that's what I think of what he said.

And your avatar is still awful.

You are tasteless, good sir.

Edited September 20, 2009 by Kuja

[Quasar]

I don't mind posting a counter comparison to Lot and Thany, but it'll take until next Saturday or so but it's not like it can't wait.

Sophia's ring. I expect this will be the final time I need to bring this up and if "okay I can ignore this until he forgets" is your last line of defense feel free to undo the change in tier positioning. Otherwise please state a valid reason for not taking it into account.

Fa

[grandjackal]

I told you, it's because it's more a scenario than something to be accounted for.

Counter with the thief deal, I'll just say I probably think I shouldn't credit them then, since I can just replace them with keys.

In fact...I just noticed most thieves don't stop doubling generally all enemies WAAAAYYY until chapter 22 save Sacae and Ilian Falcos..

These chapter 22 enemies happen to be Heroes. Otherwise, Thieves doubling is basically fine throughout the game.

Maybe I'm going about this wrong. To get this idea that Armors are deserving of Low and nothing higher, I give you this.

Garret base

55 HP, 20 Str, 15 Skill, 11 Speed, 13 Luck, 10 Def, 5 Res 37 crit, 35 avoid, 43 hit

Douglas Base

49 HP, 19 Str, 13 Skill, 8 Speed, 11 Luck, 20 Def, 5 Res. 6 crit, 27 avoid, 37 hit

10/7 Barth-A OJ

37 HP, 18+1 Str, 10 Skill, 9 Speed, 3 Luck, 21+1 Def, 4+1 Res. 5+7 crit, 21+7 avoid, 23+15 hit.

http://fe.dead-end.biz/fe6hmch17a.html

Doug can't double the armor knights weird enough. BUT, Garret's not doubling anything they aren't. On the other hand, Barth has access to plenty of axes and A Lances, and Doug has ultimate weapon choice. Steel lancers do 14 damage to Garret, 4RKO. He's not even reducing their hit below the 60s, despite WTA. On the other hand they do a grand total of 4 damage to Douglas, a 13RKO. They only do 2 damage to Barth, 19RKO. Barth can just one shot most of them with a horseslayer, and so can Douglas.

The paladin does 19 damage to Garret, 3RKO. If he has anything heavier than a handie, he's getting doubled. the others are doubled, but Doug only faces..Actually, 18 damage. 3RKO regardless. Barth? Only 14 damage. 3RKO. Weird. Oh well, I'd risk Barth and Douglas first, considering their superior durability to virtually everything else. Axers do the same with steel, though this time they don't double the generals, so cut those numbers in half. Only thing Garret fights well is mages, and even then I wouldn't exactly be prepared to let him have at 'em either. But let's get to the meat of Ilia...

http://fe.dead-end.biz/fe6hmch18a.html

First thing I notice is the hit rates. Pegasi here seem to have 99 hti, so Garret reduces it to 54, still not reliable avoid. They do 14 damage a shot to him, 4RKO. Mercs double for 12x2, 3RKO. The Falco with her silver lance doubles him at 70 displayed hit. This is 31 mt, so basically 20 damage a shot. Holy crap, that is fucking dangerous. They only do 9x2 to Barth, and 11x2 to Douglas. Douglas can take 3 volleys, Barth can too. So again, all Garret's got on them is crit, as they easily outsurvive him so bad it's not even funny.

Sacae? Oh jeez, don't even get me started. First off, the generals are nigh invincible and have a more accurate lobbing weapon. Secondly, your average every day nomad does 8x2 to Garret, a 4RKO. Then Nomads with their steel swords tear his ass up, while the generals just laugh it off, and skewer them. Weird part is? I'd actually say Sacae is SAFER for him.

Bern? No fucking dice, Garret needs 7 levels to avoid being doubled by the wyvern lords and their 40 mt. If he's not at that very level, every wyvern lord can put him to sleep indefnitely. Even at the level I just gave, the armors can take a volley.

On top of this, Douglas has some awesome supports that work with his affinity, while Barth could potentially bring Lillina for the +3 Def instead of Aing OJ (real no benefit to the A). Garret has supports that want him...but don't get him until a late time as they are all ass slow. Either way, they have ways to further up their durability, while Garret doesn't. Garret's speed growth also does terrible things to him, as he practically has armor knight speed. Basically the only lead he ever has on them is crit. However with how fast he dies, Id take their durability over that.

Basically same case for the mages up there. They have range, but they never die.

Edited September 21, 2009 by Kuja

[CATS]

Oh, noticed this:

He [L12 Allen] has 10 [spd].

http://www.serenesforest.net/fe6/average/allen.html

http://fea.fewiki.net/fea.php?character=allen&game=6

Base Spd = 6, growth = 45%

11 levels * .45 Spd gain per level = 4.95 Spd gained by L12

6 + 4.95 = 10.95

[grandjackal]

Oh, noticed this:

He [L12 Allen] has 10 [spd].

http://www.serenesforest.net/fe6/average/allen.html

http://fea.fewiki.net/fea.php?character=allen&game=6

Base Spd = 6, growth = 45%

11 levels * .45 Spd gain per level = 4.95 Spd gained by L12

6 + 4.95 = 10.95

Looks like a 10 to me.

Anyways, no thoughts on the above? If you don't agree with Barth due to opportunity cost bullshit, what would you think of Doug?

[CATS]

What? You can't just ignore decimals. I notice that your numbers in the comparisons you posted are similarly wrong. You gave Allen's 12/3 Str and Spd as 14 and 13, when in reality it's 14.85 and 13.85.

[Quasar]

I told you, it's because it's more a scenario than something to be accounted for.

How is it any more of a scenario than someone visiting a city? Both are certain rewards yet both are missed if you don't visit them.

the thief deal

I assume you're referring to where I pointed out that by your logic Chad doesn't get credit for opening chests in Chapter 3 because he's forced? I still don't see you countering that one anyway.

I shouldn't credit them then, since I can just replace them with keys.

It's becoming constantly more apparent to me that every memory you have of this game has been eroded by FEDS.

Yeah if you don't want to use decimals you could at least round them properly. You can read 10.95 as 5% chance of being 10. That's about the same as the chance of an Armor actually seeing combat in a random chapter! High five, guys!

[irtikliwT]

Just wondering if you're aware you can click the stats on FEA to bring up the actual chances of each possibility at each level? To take level 12 Allen's speed, he has a 13% chance of 9, 21% chance of 10, 24% chance of 11, 19% chance of 12 and so on.

[grandjackal]

How is it any more of a scenario than someone visiting a city? Both are certain rewards yet both are missed if you don't visit them.

The point is I don't have to use her in any actual way. It's not like she took up a unit slot for this purpose, she's just there to be moved.

I assume you're referring to where I pointed out that by your logic Chad doesn't get credit for opening chests in Chapter 3 because he's forced? I still don't see you countering that one anyway.

I shouldn't credit them then, since I can just replace them with keys.

It's becoming constantly more apparent to me that every memory you have of this game has been eroded by FEDS.

What now? Suddenly keys don't exist? I mean in exchange, I don't have to waste a slot fielding an otherwise shitty combat unit.

Besides, wouldn't this only serve to help your case?

Yeah if you don't want to use decimals you could at least round them properly. You can read 10.95 as 5% chance of being 10.

If I rounded decimals up just because they're the proper rounding number, plenty of the cast would have technically 100% growths in areas. I'm not just gonna assume it just because of the "come on officer, can't you just let me go?" excuse.

Edited September 21, 2009 by Kuja

[Scarlet]

How is it any more of a scenario than someone visiting a city? Both are certain rewards yet both are missed if you don't visit them.

The point is I don't have to use her in any actual way. It's not like she took up a unit slot for this purpose, she's just there to be moved.

The point is that this point is pretty damn retarded, honestly. Just because a unit is there regardless of whether we would like field it or not (or in other words, is forced), everything it does isn't worth anything? Athos, Gotoh etc 4 bottom of bottom then plz

Seriously, this doesn't make any sense whatsoever. If anything, it should be a positive that a unit is forced, since it then cannot possibly take a slot from another unit. Also, we must move her to that specific point to get that ring, as there is no other way to get it, so she doesn't even have to share that positive with others (which, for example, is why villages usually aren't credited to anyone in particular). How can that possibly be "not using" her? Not using her would mean that we don't even move her, but if we do that, she not only dies to the bandit reinforcements, but we also don't get that ring then.

Sophia absolutely deserves the credit for the ring. Next time, define in the rules of the thread what "using" a unit actually is.

Yeah if you don't want to use decimals you could at least round them properly. You can read 10.95 as 5% chance of being 10.

If I rounded decimals up just because they're the proper rounding number, plenty of the cast would have technically 100% growths in areas. I'm not just gonna assume it just because of the "come on officer, can't you just let me go?" excuse.

Excuse me, but this is plain bullshit. Not only does rounding a unit's stats correctly not automatically make its growths 100%, but always rounding a unit's stats down also gives a false impression on how it fares, since this displays it as worse than it actually is. If a unit has 12.7 SPD, for example, then there basically is a 70% chance that said unit has 13 SPD, and a 30% chance that it remains at 12. Both cases should be accounted for if they happen to notably influence a unit's performance; you can't just assume that the 30% case will always be true.

[Quasar]

The point is I don't have to use her in any actual way. It's not like she took up a unit slot for this purpose, she's just there to be moved.

Yes you do. You're using her by moving her to get the ring. Alternatively you can choose to move her elsewhere and not receive the ring.

What now? Suddenly keys don't exist? I mean in exchange, I don't have to waste a slot fielding an otherwise shitty combat unit.

I was hoping, for your sake, that I didn't have to spell this out for you but I guess I was too optimistic.

-They don't in Chapter 3. You use Chad or you leave the shit in chests right there. Chad gets credit for said shit and it should be pretty obvious.

-This isn't FEDS. You don't have infinite money at the beginning. Buying multiple chest keys is outright dumb when you have perfectly usable thieves.

-This isn't FEDS. Chad and Astol are both not shitty combat units. Unlike Armors, right?

-This isn't FEDS. Your thieves can actually STEAL things. In fact the best way to get chest keys early on is stealing them in Chapter 8. You'll still need to buy one set at Chapter 7 though. Let's drive this point one more time. Thief utility exists in this game (unlike in FEDS).

Hey since I got started let's push it to limit. Walk along the razor's edge, right?

-This isn't FEDS. Barth isn't Wolf.

-This isn't FEDS. Knight's Crest isn't a scenario similiar to Master Seal.

If I rounded decimals up just because they're the proper rounding number, plenty of the cast would have technically 100% growths in areas. I'm not just gonna assume it just because of the "come on officer, can't you just let me go?" excuse.

What you said makes no sense. 10.95 isn't 11 and it definitely is not 10. IF, and I will say this again, IF you want to use numbers without decimals round them properly.

Edit: Let me rephrase that. You don't know what 10.95 means. Look into it.

Edited September 21, 2009 by Quasar

[Florete]

The point is I don't have to use her in any actual way. It's not like she took up a unit slot for this purpose, she's just there to be moved.

You need to stop using the unit slot thing when it comes to the Ring.

That said, I do agree with not giving Sophia credit for the Guiding Ring, or at least not enough to raise her higher than she already is. It's just like recruiting a playable character, and we don't credit units for that. If we did, Ike would probably be Top tier.

If I rounded decimals up just because they're the proper rounding number, plenty of the cast would have technically 100% growths in areas. I'm not just gonna assume it just because of the "come on officer, can't you just let me go?" excuse.

This has already been addressed twice, but I'll add my input as well.

What you're saying is nonsense. You don't round 0.4 up, CATS was mentioning rounding 0.95 up and you pretty much said it shouldn't. It's like, what if Volug leveled up and didn't get HP? That's right, his level 16 average is 49.95. If you simply cut the decimal off, you're assuming a 1/20 chance, and that's not right. Either round properly, or don't round at all.

Also, if you cut the decimal off, with the exception of any characters with 100+ growths, every character would have their bases after their first level, and sometimes their second. Is that right?

Edited September 21, 2009 by Red Fox of Fire