Dat Nick Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 I believe Reikken once proved back in the gfaqs days that Clarine doesn't kill EVEN with a crit, but I don't have the exact figures on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted September 4, 2009 Author Share Posted September 4, 2009 If he's willing to dig it up and show it here, by all means. However if she crits and doubles, wouldn't she kill then? Or is that counted WITH the crit? Either way, I'm all ears Reikken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reikken Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 (edited) like 8 luck is pretty average on enemies Anyway, 30% crit is pretty poor when everyone not a magic user routinely has ~50% crit thanks to killer weapons. And yes, on some enemies, mostly promoted ones and magic users, Clarine leaves them alive with a crit and a normal attack. But you have to take into account Clarine's healing. That's the best part of her utility. I did. The others who heal are two tiers lower. and have arguably better offense. What Clarine offers aside from healing and over them has to be worth two tiers to justify that placement. Edited September 4, 2009 by Reikken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Alternatively you could push Ellen and Saul to High, but I find Clarine to High more realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted September 4, 2009 Author Share Posted September 4, 2009 Eh. I could drop her to high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Eh. I could drop her to high. I was about to write up a whole thing to show that Clarine's offense wasn't that bad, but I ended up finding out that Reikken was right. Oh well. Looks like PE bit me this time, me and my 18 Mag 20/1 Clarine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 (edited) I do just want to bring up Clarine's EXP bonus from her class, on the off chance that wasn't previously considered [it's just barely saving Cecilia] Edited September 4, 2009 by Joker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CATS Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 I don't think a slightly higher level will help her much. 2 levels is only +0.6 Mag. Not even close to fixing her offense issues. And the rest of what she gets from levelling is mainly just more overkill Avo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted September 5, 2009 Author Share Posted September 5, 2009 Precisely. Thus she is lowered. Any other business to bring up anyone? Like...Armor knights? ;;>> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fei Mao Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Boris over Douglas possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted September 5, 2009 Author Share Posted September 5, 2009 Sounds appropriate to me, any objections? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ether Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Sounds appropriate to me, any objections? I dunno.Douglas is pretty tank in sacae.I`d like to see soem numbers.You get hyped pretty easily,especially with Boris.I could probably say Boris > Fir and you`d do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted September 5, 2009 Author Share Posted September 5, 2009 Har har. First off, do keep in mind that earlygame he's not a total failure. That in the least, Douglas cannot say the same at all. Then let's compare. http://www.serenesforest.net/fe6/average/bors.html http://www.serenesforest.net/fe6/average/douglas.html Douglas and Boris are basically both invincible in Sacae. However, Boris has a whoping 5 speed lead advantage on Douglas. In fact, one more speed and he can double the speed reduced 10 AS Falcoknights. Douglas on the other hand couldn't double a damn thing. On top of this, Boris could have some form of support at least that boosts his accuracy (ALL Boris's supports boost accuracy), while Douglas is a tad SOL partly due to his Thunder affinity. Since both are invincible, and more defense for Douglas from supports would be more or less redundant, Boris more accurately countering would be a win for him. Looking Douglas over, it's weird the leads he actually has (he does more damage, has more HP). However, Boris is not so route dependant. By the time Bern shows up, Boris still has his offense lead as he can still double wyvern riders and a couple other things by then from the boosts in his leveling through Sacae/Ilia. Douglas however is stuck being tougher and doing basically nothing else (well, aside from being doubled, something Boris doesn't have to deal with). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ether Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Eh,I suppose in Ilia he isn`t as impressive,since being a WTFtank isn`t as necessary.But with Boris` speed lead,Douglas won`t be doubled while Boris is doubling,the lead isn`t that big.Besides,even being doubled doesn`t really effect him to much(and then there`s the thunder affinity,for when he is doubled. Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 The problem with supporting Bors is getting them for him. Lilina, Barth, and Wendy are all bad/terrible, and Astol is a Thief. He might be able to get Oujay, but I don't personally know if Oujay is good enough to be assumed in play. On the other hand, Douglas does have fast Percival and Cecilia supports. Both are tough to lol3 move difference, though Cecilia being mostly a healer should make it somewhat viable. And Bors does suck at the start. Badly. A lot of enemies wield Axes and pwn him, and maps get pretty big pretty fast, which makes his 4 move and heavy armor (terrain penalties) a hindrance to his overall use. I haven't looked very far into their actual performance, but from what I know, I don't see Bors > Douglas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted September 5, 2009 Author Share Posted September 5, 2009 (edited) The problem with supporting Bors is getting them for him. Lilina, Barth, and Wendy are all bad/terrible, and Astol is a Thief. He might be able to get Oujay, but I don't personally know if Oujay is good enough to be assumed in play. On the other hand, Douglas does have fast Percival and Cecilia supports. Both are tough to lol3 move difference, though Cecilia being mostly a healer should make it somewhat viable. And Bors does suck at the start. Badly. A lot of enemies wield Axes and pwn him, and maps get pretty big pretty fast, which makes his 4 move and heavy armor (terrain penalties) a hindrance to his overall use. I haven't looked very far into their actual performance, but from what I know, I don't see Bors > Douglas. Basically if you're saying Boris's earlygame sucks, then Ward's earlygame sucks. I see it as that close. Supports are indeed hard for Boris, but on the other hand he at least has a crapload of time to build them up. Douglas only has supports with people who have 3 move on him. Both are basically standalone units, but Boris at least having an offense lead I'd say counts it in Boris's favor. As a note, Douglas DOES get doubled. Wyvern Knights with their 40 Mt reduce Douglas to 9 HP, while Boris can take shots like a champ because he doesn't get doubled. http://fe.dead-end.biz/fe6hmch21.html Only things that don't double him are basically armors, wyverns with steel, and the mamkutes. Everything else wants a piece of Douglas. Edited September 5, 2009 by Robo Ky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ether Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 The problem with supporting Bors is getting them for him. Lilina, Barth, and Wendy are all bad/terrible, and Astol is a Thief. He might be able to get Oujay, but I don't personally know if Oujay is good enough to be assumed in play. On the other hand, Douglas does have fast Percival and Cecilia supports. Both are tough to lol3 move difference, though Cecilia being mostly a healer should make it somewhat viable. And Bors does suck at the start. Badly. A lot of enemies wield Axes and pwn him, and maps get pretty big pretty fast, which makes his 4 move and heavy armor (terrain penalties) a hindrance to his overall use. I haven't looked very far into their actual performance, but from what I know, I don't see Bors > Douglas. Basically if you're saying Boris's earlygame sucks, then Ward's earlygame sucks. I see it as that close. Supports are indeed hard for Boris, but on the other hand he at least has a crapload of time to build them up. Douglas only has supports with people who have 3 move on him. Both are basically standalone units, but Boris at least having an offense lead I'd say counts it in Boris's favor. As a note, Douglas DOES get doubled. Wyvern Knights with their 40 Mt reduce Douglas to 9 HP, while Boris can take shots like a champ because he doesn't get doubled. http://fe.dead-end.biz/fe6hmch21.html Only things that don't double him are basically armors, wyverns with steel, and the mamkutes. Everything else wants a piece of Douglas. Which means those are the only things Bors pulls an offense lead on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted September 5, 2009 Author Share Posted September 5, 2009 You do realize that Douglas getting doubled basically cuts Douglas's durability in half, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reikken Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 (edited) fffffffffff Edited September 6, 2009 by Reikken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reikken Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 The problem with Bors, or any armor, is in leveling them, especially with efficiency in mind. His offense is poor to begin with, but then he has reduced move, and the early chapters especially are crowded, meaning his spot in getting to attack range of enemies is frequently taken by others with better move and offense, and then in later chapters, you frequently have stretches of people using their full move each turn. The western isles chapters just make things even worse. Douglas > other armors because you don't have to deal with all that crap to get him to a usable state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 (edited) You could make Boris swimmable usable with an early promotion, but then again it'd be criticized of taking Allan | Lance of a Knight's Crest as well (Noah and Treck are likely waiting for a while longer anyway). Also standing by on Douglas > Bors. One needs to be trained to be useful, the other just needs to be fielded... Edited September 6, 2009 by Colonel M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted September 7, 2009 Author Share Posted September 7, 2009 (edited) Damn you people... Fine, Boris won't rise...For now... Actually, I have a question to ask you all. As you all know, Thany rose due to early promotion. This was due to the fact that she hardly changes, and is the only competitor for her promotion item at that time. This much is true. However, this makes me curious about a couple things.... 1. The Guiding Ring. Saul can use it the earliest due to having the higher base level. He will also gain not only combat, but also time to actually build Light rank. His leveling is no problem at all, due to Bishops getting Elite basically, but also staff use. Clarine wouldn't have as good offense anyways and is just meant to be lulzy invincible nce she has supports built (if anything, adding more move to her just makes it harder), and Ellen wouldn't benefit as much due to being crappy combat-wise regardless. 2. Orion's Bolt. I would say something, but it depends really. Who will have the level lead by the time it shows up? Sue's a bit garbage-y, Shin's 5 levels under early promo status, and Dorothy isn't exactly much closer I would think. I hate to say it, but...There's only one guy.... 3. Knight's Crest. Before you hold a magnum to my head for this, ask yourself truly how much the cavaliers would benefit from an early promotion. Lance and Allen are good regardless and can afford to wait. The Ilians need all the levels they can get just to surpass Zealot of all people. So when the cavaliers aren't getting as much out of it...Who's left? You know who's left... Analysis of people who would benefit from early promotion Deick-Seriously, you get the hero crest in chapter 7, he should be around that level by then. As if he weren't hilarious already. Walt-He becomes incredibly similar at levle 14/1 to Klein. He basically only loses Str by 3 and lacks the bow rank. However, a mini-Klein is pretty cool. It sucks he has no support options, he could close the gap to 1 pretty damn easily. For what it's worth, Walt would be more durable for Sacae. Dorothy-Basically when she gets to like level 12 she'll have a speed lead on Klein, losing Str by 3 of which the Saul support closes by 2. However, she has 15% more Str, and the same speed growth so offensively she will soon surpass Klein. This is pretty unique, as it was thought archers never outperformed Klein EVER. Dorothy actually can. Offensively anyways, she is your least durable sniper with this in mind. However, archers shouldn't care about defense normally, so.... Sue-Str sucks too much. Base level of 1, takes a while to build up. Has a better start than Dorothy technically though, but promoting her at level 10? All we get is 9 Str, which is sucky no matter how you split it. Swords are nice, but 14 base ATK with iron swords is pretty blech. If by some miracle she can manage to get to level 10 by the isles... Boris-Would level 14 by chapter 9 be off? Because if not, he can actually double quite consistantly throughout the isles. With the +4 defense, he actually becomes invincible to mercs. Axes help his durability against axers, and now has time to actually build the rank. Axers at worst are doing 6 damage, which would be a 6RKO. He can mitigate this with his newly aquired axes for removing WTD. 11 speed, he can double hand axe pirates, steelers of any class (like archers). Basically only things he's not doubling are mercs, mages, and the berserker (of whom now he can survive a crit). On top of this, he doesn't have move problems anymore, as he's keeping pace with your foot soldiers now. Even more though, he can ORKO these things he can double, 2RKO everything else. Barth-Basically Boris with less luck and speed, but you don't have to train him as much. Won't be hitting as much, won't be doubling, but he'll be 2RKOing anyways, and he'll never be dying. So if you feel you need a hard-ass motherfucker, Barth's a nice alternative. Wendy-Seriously, would you really consider her sucking all the way till level 20? Wendy at level 11 promoted is basically a level 14 promoted Boris with 4 less defense. Being a general doesn't suck, just being an armor knight does. Basically, gauge when she'd get a knight's crest at an appropriate time. Sucks you basically only get 1 all the way until Percival... Fir-You think she'll miss 2 Str? Geese-Well more con, 3 more Str and all the defensive boosts it brings are nice, but he only gets +1 speed. However, he DOES promote instantly. Ray-Plus 2 speed, more con, and huge boosts. You can do this instantly no less, but basically he wants to promote as soon as possible. Making him wait is stupid. At worst, he would only care for 5 levels. Miledy-Basically it's like you have Miledy at 20/1 promoted if she didn't have the hard mode bonuses. That's STILL good though. Sofiya-Well dur, but she still sucks. Promotion gains are sadly garbage. Hue-Dur Everyone else benefits more form the faster leveling speed, or are just so good they don't care. Exception being Deick for the sole purpose of being hilariously too good. Thoughts? Edited September 11, 2009 by Kuja Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fei Mao Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 Well the promotion might help Wolt Dorthy and Saul but the question is when will Dorthy reach level 12 and Wolt reaching level 14? I think you should try your idea on a playthrough if you do play FE6 again and tell us how they fare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted September 12, 2009 Author Share Posted September 12, 2009 I certainly feel I should check it out too, but I just wish to know what everyone else's thoughts on it would be so it could help better solidify the situation. This could help plenty of people move around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fei Mao Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 (edited) With Walt and Dorthy (just a guess from me) they could serve as decent chip damage or maybe Dorthy might be able to double some of the enemies also and Bors reaching 14 by level 9 or 10 would sound reasonable considering if he managed to snag a lot of kills. (Then again I'm not sure how much reduced exp he will get if he outlevels the enemy) Edited September 12, 2009 by Cyas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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