Getting a Tier List on this bad boy

[CATS]

I don't see what levelling speed has to do with anything. Healers don't need combat stats in order to be helpful, and thus their contribution is not dependent on their level.

[Colonel M]

The problem isn't that CATS. It's reaching promotion, really. I mean I wouldn't call a 10/1 Moulder good on the offensive side of the spectrum:

27.9 HP | 8.8 Mag | 10.5 Skl | 11.8 Spd | 2.4 Luck | 6.75 Def | 8.75 Res

While their staff contribution shouldn't be ignored, their offense should also matter in some areas since, for example, we have Moulder all the way in High Tier.

[Progenitus]

Pretty sure I showed somewhere that Moulder was comparable to Forde in combat, which is freaking good for a healer.

I mean you could've even given Forde a few levels. It wouldn't really matter.

[Candlejack]

Smash, you can't compare offense with a Priest and a Cavalier.

[Colonel M]

Pretty sure I showed somewhere that Moulder was comparable to Forde in combat, which is freaking good for a healer.

I mean you could've even given Forde a few levels. It wouldn't really matter.

I've searched in this tier list and haven't found a signle Moulder and Forde comparison anywhere.

[Candlejack]

It's in his ranking topic.

[Colonel M]

That's not really a "comparison", perse. Then again what did we agree that units would be promoting at... around Level 16 or before that?

[CATS]

There's nothing at all wrong with Moulder's offense. Just posting his 10/1 stats doesn't prove anything.

It takes Kyle until L17 to reach 10/1 Moulder's Spd, and the Def-Res gap compensates for Kyle's Atk lead against most of the enemies that matter (Cavs, Knights, etc). Moulder also has Slayer which gives him an auto-win on offense for Ch 11 and 12. And oh, look, Kyle is high tier.

Edited November 7, 2009 by CATS

[Colonel M]

That's not what I mean CATS, again. The question is if his not-gimped levels (as in the slightly lower Speed that it takes to get him to 20/1) hurting him or doing absolutely nothing.

[CATS]

You're going to have to explain your question in clearer terms.

[Colonel M]

How much clearer do I need to be? Supposedly people in this topic (IOS and IIRC Mekkah) mentioned that Moulder was lower in levels in comparison to their combat units, hence it would affect comparisons such as smash's.

EDIT: Ironically it's in smash's rating topic.

Edited November 8, 2009 by Colonel M

[Rewjeo]

I don't mind them dropping. And any thoughts on Saleh up? Currently, he's at the top of Upper Mid, but I think he could easily move up. I could even see him>Lute, maybe.

[Colonel M]

I don't mind them dropping. And any thoughts on Saleh up? Currently, he's at the top of Upper Mid, but I think he could easily move up. I could even see him>Lute, maybe.

That was shut down by smash, so I'd take a look at his post and see if you can find something wrong with the comparisons.

[CATS]

Yeah, if you're gonna drop them, give some evidence. I already wrote up a bit on Moulder vs Kyle, a high tier character, and keep in mind that Moulder's around for 5 chapters more than Kyle, while being your only available healer in 3 of those chapters.

[Colonel M]

Well if you already did a stat comparison, and look at IOS's levels Kyle and Moulder seem dead on (the difference is like a level for Kyle).

20/2 Kyle

42.4 HP | 19 Str | 13.4 Skl | 15.4 Spd | 9.2 Luck | 15 Def | 5.2 Res

B Forde / B Ephraim

Killer Axe - 32 Atk, 46 Crit, 15 AS, 42 HP | 17 Def | 7 Res

Hand Axe - 28 Atk

20/1 Moulder

34.9 HP | 12.8 Str | 15.5 Skl | 15.8 Spd | 4.4 Luck | 9.25 Def | 11.25 Res

A Vanessa

Shine - 22 Atk, 16 AS, 14 Crit, 35 HP, 12 Def, 14 Res

The enemy would have to have a huge disparity in Def - Res in order for Moulder to even come close to that kind of offense, or if Kyle holds the Hand Axe. This was about Ruled By Madness, pretty close to the levels you had as well.

Knights - About an 11 Def - Res difference, but Kyle can also pull out Hammer and whomp these guys too.

Cavaliers - 6, one with 4. Neither have trouble KOing.

Shamans - Oneshotted.

So I could keep going with the unpromoted enemies, but you get the picture. So what about promoted enemies?

Great Knights - Bishop Moulder actually fails to KO these guys with Divine unless he gets a lucky critical hit. For Kyle, he can switch to Hammer and easily KO them.

Warriors - Technically they have a Def | Res gap of 5, so Moulder would only lose with the Hand Axe by 1. It wouldn't matter anyway since the ~5 Res these guys pack force him to do about 34 damage per round. Meanwhile a Killer Axe!Kyle can plop 46 damage on the average Warrior with crit banking a chance to kill.

Heroes - About a 6 point difference. Killer Lance only has -1 Mt w/WTA, so technically Kyle can still win the attack here. 17 damage at the worst case scenario and 15 for Moulder.

Sages - Not bothering since obviously offensively Kyle will win this.

Druids - See Sages.

Swordmaster - 2 Def | Res gap. Kyle 2RKOes while Moulder 3RKOes. Kyle wins.

Then looking defensively:

Kyle - 42 HP | 17 Def | 7 Res | 54 Avoid

Moulder - 35 HP | 12 Def | 14 Res | 49 Avoid

Kyle is winning by a ridiculous amount. The only thing Moulder has on him is Res. I don't think I really need to do stat comparisons to tell which is better, since you could technically add +15 to Kyle's Avoid due to WTC.

The only other advantage would be staff utility, which isn't bad but even so.

---

So I don't see the tier gap between these guys at this point, so either Kyle should rise or Moulder should drop. We'd have to put a significant weight on Moulder's staff utility over the course of 6 chapters, and about 3 of those chapters have Natasha in them.

Edited November 8, 2009 by Colonel M

[Progenitus]

I see no Colm support, which would already be +2 att/def, +5 avo (and 5 crit, lolz).

I also see that you made Moulder into a bishop and then took a map that didn't have monsters. Bro, Moulder easily wins all the monster maps, and he's already comparable to Kyle in non-monster ones. Switch him to a sage for Elfire and now you have to give him 4 more att (lolz), though he doesn't auto win monster maps anymore.

You also failed to realize that the higher rank staves start showing up, which gives Moulder tons and tons of exp. Kyle has a level lead? lol, no longer

And I like how 5 def/5 avo is suddenly "ridiculous" (7 HP and 7 res are about equal, HP slightly better but w/e). Especially since it's actually supposed to be only 3 def and 0 avo in reality (lolcolmsupport). Especially since Moulder is attacking at 2-range, while Kyle switching to a hand axe loses his supposed offense lead.

Also, you're heavily overrating WTC. Yeah, all 3 weapons is nice but he can't always have WTA, like if there's an axe and lance enemy nearby, he can't get WTA on both at the same time. Not to mention he only has 5 slots. I have no idea what you're going to load him with, but if you're going to do something like hammer + killer + hand axe, that's already 3 slots.

And you're missing the point. Moulder is a healer. The fact that he's actually comparable to high tiers in combat means taht his actual value is >>> that. Unless you're suggesting we're better off without our... 10th best fighter or whatever Kyle is, over our best healer who ends up about as good as said 10th best fighter in combat after promotion. rofl

[Candlejack]

You also failed to realize that the higher rank staves start showing up, which gives Moulder tons and tons of exp. Kyle has a level lead? lol, no longer

Considering how much EXP healing staves give, "tons and tons" of EXP is a downright hyperbole.

[Progenitus]

Warp is 85 exp. Fortify is 60. Rescue/hammerne are 40. sleep is 35. silence is 30. physic is 22. restore is 20. The other staves like torch and mend can be used whenever there are no nearby enemies. Getting like 6 exp > getting like 0.

Yeah, these values are all halved if Moulder is promoted. That doesn't really matter. It's still a lot of exp Moulder can draw from that pure fighters like Kyle can't.

[Rewjeo]

I don't mind them dropping. And any thoughts on Saleh up? Currently, he's at the top of Upper Mid, but I think he could easily move up. I could even see him>Lute, maybe.

That was shut down by smash, so I'd take a look at his post and see if you can find something wrong with the comparisons.

He completely ignored staff utility and, for whatever it's worth, B light for better tomes to use against monsters with WTA. WTD Elfire vs. WTA Shine

Divine

Mt 9

Hit 100

Crit 10

+1 DEF

+15 AVO

Elfire

Mt 9

Hit 70

Crit 0

-1 DEF

-15 AVO

Of course, if she goes Sage, then she can use light tomes, but lightning instead of divine.

Anyways, I don't really mind if Saleh<Lute, but a whole tier below Forde?

[Colonel M]

I see no Colm support, which would already be +2 att/def, +5 avo (and 5 crit, lolz).

A Thief support. Really? Nevertheless at a jawbreaking 0+2 Speed. That's terrible even if it makes it somehow by this point of the game.

I also see that you made Moulder into a bishop and then took a map that didn't have monsters. Bro, Moulder easily wins all the monster maps, and he's already comparable to Kyle in non-monster ones. Switch him to a sage for Elfire and now you have to give him 4 more att (lolz), though he doesn't auto win monster maps anymore.

He looks severely underwhelming on the normal maps to me. Those with monsters... well it'd be about C17 at the earliest, but take a look at a random Gorgon:

32/23/10/11/9/9/17

9 Def and 17 Res. Hm... Moulder likely has an extra Str point by now, so I'll give it to him. Divine is also likely so it's about 40 Atk. Not that it freaking matters because both Kyle and Moulder are ORKOing these buffoons anyway.

I'd say they're about 20/9 by Darkling Woods.

Kyle - 48.7 HP | 22.5 Str | 16.2 Skl | 18.2 Spd | 10.6 Luck | 16.75 Def | 6.6 Res

Moulder - 40.5 HP | 16 Str | 19.5 Skl | 19 Spd | 6 Luck | 11.25 Def | 13.25 Res

The bonuses should be obvious by now defenisively, but Killer Axe!Kyle has 35 Atk while Moulder w/Divine has 43.

So at first you'd say Moulder would win single shots, but look at the AS on this map as none of the enemies really hit enough AS to not be doubled by both Kyle and Moulder (The Deathgoyles are weighed down by the Steel Lances so it's -2 AS).

Lesse, the toughest Melee Maeldun is 47 HP | 14 Def for Kyle to take on. There's also 8-9 Res on these, though I'll clearly admit Moulder wins... well, only a certain % of the time. Recall those Crit bonuses, which would be ~73% of the time Kyle can tie (If I did this right, that is if he lands a critical hit). Though I'll admit that Kyle does have the disadvantage here, the critical chances are bankable to help him out. By Endgame he can possibly swipe one of the three legendary weapons: Garm, Vidofnir, or Audhumla, which would make Moulder's wins a little less significant overall.

So it's possible for Moulder to win in C20, but by Endgame a legendary weapon is more than bound to fall into Kyle's hands, so Moulder isn't likely beating Kyle at that point.

You also failed to realize that the higher rank staves start showing up, which gives Moulder tons and tons of exp. Kyle has a level lead? lol, no longer

Let's see. There's Hammerne by C14, but that isn't likely used until later on so it's reserved for legendary weapons. Physic is C16. Warp and Silence are 15. Rescue is in 17. Notice how all the "good" staves don't come until later on in the game. Then considering that Moulder's level would be inflated higher than Kyle's beforehand? I don't think so. A Torch use is a little higher than Mend, but that's only for certain chapters (C11 Ephy, C10 Eirika I believe? and then C19). Etc, etc. You'd have to hand a lot of favoritism in order to give Moulder a level lead. Perhaps it can happen later on, but there's also Saleh who can use Staves and possibly Artur | Lute if somehow her Staff rank went way the hell up there (though I doubt it really).

And I like how 5 def/5 avo is suddenly "ridiculous" (7 HP and 7 res are about equal, HP slightly better but w/e). Especially since it's actually supposed to be only 3 def and 0 avo in reality (lolcolmsupport). Especially since Moulder is attacking at 2-range, while Kyle switching to a hand axe loses his supposed offense lead.

If we really want to play dirty, Kyle technically has +15 Avoid and +1 Def on any physical enemy. Oh, and you'll have to explain a Thief support.

Also, you're heavily overrating WTC. Yeah, all 3 weapons is nice but he can't always have WTA, like if there's an axe and lance enemy nearby, he can't get WTA on both at the same time. Not to mention he only has 5 slots. I have no idea what you're going to load him with, but if you're going to do something like hammer + killer + hand axe, that's already 3 slots.

3 Killers, Hand Axe, Hammer. Wow, that was hard. Theoretically he could at least gain neutral on one enemy and WTA on the other though, so the chances of him being under the weapon triangle are rare.

And you're missing the point. Moulder is a healer. The fact that he's actually comparable to high tiers in combat means taht his actual value is >>> that. Unless you're suggesting we're better off without our... 10th best fighter or whatever Kyle is, over our best healer who ends up about as good as said 10th best fighter in combat after promotion. rofl

Yeah, what a great fighter Moulder is... only on Monsters and non-promoted enemies, the latter which almost anyone can kill.

Edited November 8, 2009 by Colonel M

[Progenitus]

A Thief support. Really?

Not a thief support. Really?

Sorry dude, but the burden of proof is you on. I mean, we can go "no u" back and forth, but you're the one trying to sandbag move Moulder down.

Nevertheless at a jawbreaking 0+2 Speed. That's terrible even if it makes it somehow by this point of the game.

According to this site, 160 points are needed to get to a B. That's 80 turns for a 0+2 support. So liek 6-7 turns a chapter (if he wants a B by chapter 16). For reference, you were assuming that Kyle was next to Eph about 6 turns a chapter. So unless the Eph support is going at an unreasonable speed, I see no reason why the Colm one wouldn't.

So it's possible for Moulder to win in C20, but by Endgame a legendary weapon is more than bound to fall into Kyle's hands, so Moulder isn't likely beating Kyle at that point.

If the monster chapters don't matter (or don't matter enough), why did you make Moulder into a Bishop?

Let's see. There's Hammerne by C14, but that isn't likely used until later on so it's reserved for legendary weapons. Physic is C16. Warp and Silence are 15. Rescue is in 17. Notice how all the "good" staves don't come until later on in the game.

No shit they come later in the game. Did I ever say they came early? The comparison you made was around chapter 16, and I simply pointed out that by then Moulder will get lolmassiveexp from staves, and I'd be surprised if Moulder didn't pull ahead in levels.

If we really want to play dirty, Kyle technically has +15 Avoid and +1 Def on any physical enemy.

Hmmm, avoiding the counter entirely vs still taking a counter.

3 Killers, Hand Axe, Hammer. Wow, that was hard.

Huh. was thinking something else. w/e

On a side note, GKs only start with D axes, so they can't use killer axes immediately.

Theoretically he could at least gain neutral on one enemy and WTA on the other though, so the chances of him being under the weapon triangle are rare.

Never said he would face WTD, but he's not likely to get WTA on everything.

Yeah, what a great fighter Moulder is... only on Monsters and non-promoted enemies, the latter which almost anyone can kill.

Yeah, miss my point. Moulder does not have to actually beat Kyle in fighting to stay > Kyle (unless you think healing is worthless, lulz). Do I need to keep saying this or are you just going to troll some more?

[CATS]

Considering how much EXP healing staves give, "tons and tons" of EXP is a downright hyperbole.

Warp is almost half a level per use, there's only two units who can realistically use it and you may not be using them in conjunction, and it's pretty clearly one of the best candidates for Hammerne uses.

Let's look at the lategame.

Ch 15: GK Kyle has 1 move in the desert.

Ch 18: Warp is absurdly useful in a chapter where the whole point is to move foward as fast as possible, so this is certainly an auto-win for Moulder.

Ch 19: Moulder provides you with a Torch Staff user, and Warp is once again essential if you want to try and end the chapter early by killing Riev.

Ch 20 and 21: Assuming you made Moulder a Bishop (which is what seems to be the general opinion), this is another auto-win for him, or at least, Kyle can't claim a decisive victory here. Moulder + Divine is able to 2HKO anything on the map. Ofcourse, keep in mind that once again using the Warp staff can drastically reduce your turncount here.

By Endgame he can possibly swipe one of the three legendary weapons: Garm, Vidofnir, or Audhumla, which would make Moulder's wins a little less significant overall.

I suppose you forgot that units can only S Rank in one weapon type, not three. Kyle is not, in fact, at all likely to get a Sacred Twin. He's almost certainly going to S Rank in Lances and Vidofnir is likely the most highly contested Sacred Twin; Seth, Franz, Vanessa, Cormag and Forde will all be looking for it.

So Moulder rides through 5 of the 7 lategame chapters without even really needing to consult a detailed statistical comparison. I'll re-state that Moulder is also present in 5 more total chapters than Kyle, and is your only healer for three of those. That's half the chapters in the game right there.

Edited November 9, 2009 by CATS

[Colonel M]

A Thief support. Really?

Not a thief support. Really?

Sorry dude, but the burden of proof is you on. I mean, we can go "no u" back and forth, but you're the one trying to sandbag move Moulder down.

Think about this further. Their utility roles are completely different. If it was combat, then maybe I could see it happening. There are also instances where Colm has the possibility of not being fielded if Chests | nothing noteworthy to steal | FoW are absent.

Nevertheless at a jawbreaking 0+2 Speed. That's terrible even if it makes it somehow by this point of the game.

According to this site, 160 points are needed to get to a B. That's 80 turns for a 0+2 support. So liek 6-7 turns a chapter (if he wants a B by chapter 16). For reference, you were assuming that Kyle was next to Eph about 6 turns a chapter. So unless the Eph support is going at an unreasonable speed, I see no reason why the Colm one wouldn't.

Again, see the comment that their roles are so completely different that it's not THAT EASY to pair them together. The only exception is with 2 healers, and now you face the burden of splitting levels between the two of them.

So it's possible for Moulder to win in C20, but by Endgame a legendary weapon is more than bound to fall into Kyle's hands, so Moulder isn't likely beating Kyle at that point.

If the monster chapters don't matter (or don't matter enough), why did you make Moulder into a Bishop?

I assumed this was his "best route", unless you're attempting to tell me that Sage is, in which case I have no issue changing the comparison.

Let's see. There's Hammerne by C14, but that isn't likely used until later on so it's reserved for legendary weapons. Physic is C16. Warp and Silence are 15. Rescue is in 17. Notice how all the "good" staves don't come until later on in the game.

No shit they come later in the game. Did I ever say they came early? The comparison you made was around chapter 16, and I simply pointed out that by then Moulder will get lolmassiveexp from staves, and I'd be surprised if Moulder didn't pull ahead in levels.

Moulder isn't the only person that can use these Staves either. Okay, he might have a level lead, but there are still others that can use it. Remember Artur who starts at C Staves upon promotion? Saleh who starts with C Staves as well? Lute who also starts with D Staves (though she's the least likely to get it out of the 4). Then Natasha. I understand this slightly bites into the legendary weapons, but the point is it is possible for Kyle to at least have 1/3 legendary weapons.

If we really want to play dirty, Kyle technically has +15 Avoid and +1 Def on any physical enemy.

Hmmm, avoiding the counter entirely vs still taking a counter.

Wow, taking a counter. Someone call the presses on this one.

Great Knight w/Silver Lance in C16: 95 Hit (9x2 + 5/2 + 75) - 54 regular avoid = 41 Hit, 26 w/WTA for Kyle.

Hero w/Silver Sword in C16: 117 Hit (17x2 + 7/2 + 80) - 54 regular avoid = 63 Hit, 48 w/WTA for Kyle.

His only real "danger zone" is something with ridiculous amounts of Skill like Heroes and Swordmasters. To add insult to the injury does 12/42 damage, which isn't even a 3RKO. Not to mention he still theoretically has 1-2 range (oh wow trading and convoy, are we going to sandbag with this now?). And aren't you the same person that stated that 1-2 range was overrated anyway?

3 Killers, Hand Axe, Hammer. Wow, that was hard.

Huh. was thinking something else. w/e

Hand Axe vs. Javelin. Nothing that hard to accomplish w/trading or the convoy either.

On a side note, GKs only start with D axes, so they can't use killer axes immediately.

I'm also assuming that he likely promoted by C15. Before you say "HALT!" Ephraim Kyle can still function in the south side of the desert. Assuming he doubles with the Steel Axe he would have to enter in combat 10 times and he theoretically has the C Rank in Axes (40/2/2). Fatal hits speeds this up. There's also the Devil Axe for a last resort where he could just use it against a Mercenary for +8, though I'm not carrying that argument very far myself.

Theoretically he could at least gain neutral on one enemy and WTA on the other though, so the chances of him being under the weapon triangle are rare.

Never said he would face WTD, but he's not likely to get WTA on everything.

Which is why I didn't add the +1 Def and +15 Avoid in the comparison.

Yeah, what a great fighter Moulder is... only on Monsters and non-promoted enemies, the latter which almost anyone can kill.

Yeah, miss my point. Moulder does not have to actually beat Kyle in fighting to stay > Kyle (unless you think healing is worthless, lulz).

I didn't say that Moulder can't be over Kyle. The question is if such a tier gap exists?

Do I need to keep saying this or are you just going to troll some more?

Please, not only does it take one to know one this isn't the place to be pointing fingers, especially since you have been claimed as one many times by Interceptor and others.

I suppose you forgot that units can only S Rank in one weapon type, not three. Kyle is not, in fact, at all likely to get a Sacred Twin. He's almost certainly going to S Rank in Lances and Vidofnir is likely the most highly contested Sacred Twin; Seth, Franz, Vanessa, Cormag and Forde will all be looking for it.

What ever do you mean? Did you forget he theoretically has the Sword rank as well which is still easy to gain with Blades? Weapon Ranks aren't that hard to build throughout in this game. >_>; I didn't say he can have all 3 of them, the statement is the chances of him getting one are increased with 3 options (possibly 2, Axes could be a bit difficult to pull off unless he early promotes).

So Moulder rides through 5 of the 7 lategame chapters without even really needing to consult a detailed statistical comparison. I'll re-state that Moulder is also present in 5 more total chapters than Kyle, and is your only healer for three of those. That's half the chapters in the game right there.

Huh, what do you mean without really needing to consult a detailed statistical comparison? You ASKED for one, and I gave you one. Unless like smash there's going to be whining about the petty thief support, allow me to re-iterate this for the last time: I am not, I repeat, - NOT - saying Kyle > Moulder. I am merely stating that it is possible that a tier gap isn't 100% justified if his combat isn't much better than the units in here.

I'm not ignoring healing. I understand it exists, I understand its advantages. I've argued in the FEDS tier list where everyone and their mother can be a Curate | Bishop and have agreed to rise characters such as Maria over cruddy offensive units such as Mishalen and Raddy. Though, is such a tier gap justified with the theoretical 3 chapters of him being alone and 5 chapters (remember 5X still exists) of the little extra healing time when the game isn't... as difficult, perse. The game only picks up in difficulty around C9 IIRC (unless you're Ross, then it still starts early on).

[CATS]

What ever do you mean? Did you forget he theoretically has the Sword rank as well which is still easy to gain with Blades? Weapon Ranks aren't that hard to build throughout in this game. >_>; I didn't say he can have all 3 of them, the statement is the chances of him getting one are increased with 3 options (possibly 2, Axes could be a bit difficult to pull off unless he early promotes).

Kyle's Lance rank starts one letter higher, Lances have a WT advantage vs two types while Swords have a WT advantage against only one, Lances contain Kyle's 1-2 range option, and Lances are better for general use than Swords thanks to higher Mt. Basically, Kyle wants to have a Lance out against any enemy that isn't wielding an Axe. Lances get the S Rank by a very large margin under normal circumstances. S Ranking in Swords would require you to use them in situations where a Lance or Axe would be preferable. I guess you can do that if you want, personally, I wouldn't.

Maybe if it gave him unrestricted access to Audhulma, but it doesn't as there are indeed other units who will S Swords naturally. So in other words, it's not worth it and it doesn't help his case.

Huh, what do you mean without really needing to consult a detailed statistical comparison? You ASKED for one, and I gave you one. Unless like smash there's going to be whining about the petty thief support, allow me to re-iterate this for the last time: I am not, I repeat, - NOT - saying Kyle > Moulder. I am merely stating that it is possible that a tier gap isn't 100% justified if his combat isn't much better than the units in here.

The point is that Moulder's non-combat features alone are nearly enough for him to beat Kyle. The Warp staff probably makes a bigger impact in the lategame all by itself than anything that Kyle does during that time. Warp is helpful in reducing turncounts for every single chapter after it appears, and its effects on some chapters (18, 20) are very pronounced. That's without even considering the additional utility of Physic/Mend, Barrier, Restore, Torch, Hammerne and Fortify/Latona. Kyle, on the other hand, is just another combatant among many, and he doesn't particularly stand out at that task, especially considering that he doesn't get a Sacred Twin. So when you add in the fact that Moulder is indeed a competent fighter, I find a tier gap to be more than justified.

Edited November 9, 2009 by CATS

[Dat Nick]

Think about this further. Their utility roles are completely different. If it was combat, then maybe I could see it happening. There are also instances where Colm has the possibility of not being fielded if Chests | nothing noteworthy to steal | FoW are absent.

Colm isn't Julian/Chad/Sothe here. He is perfectly capable of combat.