Shadow Mir Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 Rexbolt also has sub-100 hit (95 to be exact). True, but technically, it has 101 hit due to the skill boost. At any rate, Balberith's losing accuracy to all the other SS tomes by at least 20 points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zkirsche Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 Let's not forget their shitty accuracy. Balberith is the only SS tome with sub-100 hit. And it's only 1 point stronger than Rexflame. Whoop-de-freaking-do. Easily solved with a hit support. Pelleas has access to both Tibarn and Elincia heaven supports. I agree that Rexflame > Balberith though. +3 AS is just win. As for the bolded, you can't be serious. Unless you're going to tell me that Fenrir, Gespenst and Gleipnir are anything useless crap. They're not useless crap. Fenrir is useful in killing dragons in 4-5. Then Carreau, Verrine and Worm are better than they're equal counter parts. Verrine has equal atk is Rexaura for goodness sake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Envoy of the Beginning Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 Easily solved with a hit support. Pelleas has access to both Tibarn and Elincia heaven supports. I agree that Rexflame > Balberith though. +3 AS is just win.They're not useless crap. Fenrir is useful in killing dragons in 4-5. Then Carreau, Verrine and Worm are better than they're equal counter parts. Verrine has equal atk is Rexaura for goodness sake. Pelleas comes in underleveled, and Tibarn and Elincia want better support partners. Also, Pelleas couldn't keep up with either two (due to low mobility) to keep support bonuses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 Easily solved with a hit support. Pelleas has access to both Tibarn and Elincia heaven supports. I agree that Rexflame > Balberith though. +3 AS is just win.They're not useless crap. Fenrir is useful in killing dragons in 4-5. Then Carreau, Verrine and Worm are better than they're equal counter parts. Verrine has equal atk is Rexaura for goodness sake. What, you're so desperate that you'd tether a flier to a 6 move unit just to have an argument? And that's ignoring the fact that Tibarn and Elincia don't even care to support him anyway. Especially Tibarn. Gah, I forgot that you only played PoR and RD. If your definition of "better" equals "having a chance to cause a costly "MISS!" to happen", then I pity you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zkirsche Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 (edited) Pelleas comes in underleveled, and Tibarn and Elincia want better support partners. Also, Pelleas couldn't keep up with either two (due to low mobility) to keep support bonuses. Canto is your friend. Underlevelled means gains levels quickly, he does 2-3RKO most enemies on the map. What, you're so desperate that you'd tether a flier to a 6 move unit just to have an argument? And that's ignoring the fact that Tibarn and Elincia don't even care to support him anyway. Especially Tibarn. Tibarn doesn't care whatever the partner - he always rocks. Which is why he should support someone who wants him. Canto is your friend. Gah, I forgot that you only played PoR and RD. If your definition of "better" equals "having a chance to cause a costly "MISS!" to happen", then I pity you. Shame he doesn't miss, then. I pity you for a lot of things, yet I don't go saying it. Edited June 20, 2009 by kirsche Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 (edited) Canto is your friend.Underlevelled means gains levels quickly, he does 2-3RKO most enemies on the map. Other than the fact that if they used most of their move to go attack an enemy, Canto isn't doing diddly-squat. OK....if he doesn't whiff, that is. Tibarn doesn't care whatever the partner - he always rocks. Which is why he should support someone who wants him.Canto is your friend. I said it once, and I'll say it again: Tibarn doesn't need a support partner to rock. You admitted this yourself. In fact, he might be BETTER OFF without one. Edited June 20, 2009 by Jonathan Aulin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Envoy of the Beginning Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 Canto is your friend.Can't see how that helps. Tibarn and Elincia want to move onward and kill enemies/get the chapter done for the most part. Tibarn much more than Elincia Underlevelled means gains levels quickly, he does 2-3RKO most enemies on the map. He fucking gets one-rounded. That's bad. So he's going to have limited Enemy Phase utility. Which is also bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zkirsche Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 (edited) Other than the fact that if they used most of their move to go attack an enemy, Canto isn't doing diddly-squat. When would he ever need to do that? The laguz are all over the place and are easily reached. OK....if he doesn't whiff, that is. He faces ~70% real hit rates. I said it once, and I'll say it again: Tibarn doesn't need a support partner to rock. In fact, he might be BETTER OFF without one. He might, but the team won't. Having 2 great units (Pelleas not missing = good) > Having 1 great unit. He fucking gets one-rounded. That's bad. So he's going to have limited Enemy Phase utility. Which is also bad. That isn't that bad if you're clever. Then there's bexp and an attack on it's own is easy enougth. Reyson is your friend. Edited June 20, 2009 by kirsche Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 (edited) When would he ever need to do that? The laguz are all over the place and are easily reached.Again, I'd want to use Tibarn's move hax to expose him to as many enemies on E. Phase as possible. He faces ~70% real hit rates. With what, Carreau? He might, but the team won't. Having 2 great units (Pelleas not missing = good) > Having 1 great unit. But gimping Tibarn's movement = Bad. That isn't that bad if you're clever. Then there's bexp and an attack on it's own is easy enougth. Reyson is your friend. Other than the fact that Pelleas can't get BEXP before 4-2. And I'd want Reyson to give a good unit another turn. Not a subpar unit. Edited June 20, 2009 by Jonathan Aulin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Envoy of the Beginning Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 (edited) That isn't that bad if you're clever. Then there's bexp and an attack on it's own is easy enougth. Reyson is your friend. Favortism much? The same can be done for other units, some who may not need the favoritsm. And as Jonathan said, he can't use it in 4-2 and Reyson has better units to revitalize for efficiency. Edited June 20, 2009 by Luster Warrior Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zkirsche Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 Again, I'd want to use Tibarn's move hax to expose him to as many enemies on E. Phase as possible. Why? It doesn't really help teh completion of the chapter and this chapter is used to help train units up. With what, Carreau? Yes. But gimping Tibarn's movement = Bad. No it isn't, most of his mov is superfluous. Providing a useful support and being great in combat > being great in combat. Besides, it doesn't really affect his movement at all really: XXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX XXXXPTXXXX If Tibarn and Pelleas use both of thier mov: XXXXTXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX XXXXPXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX So Tibarn still uses his full mov and keep his support with pelleas. And I'd want Reyson to give a good unit another turn It's worth the results though. Besides Reyson can vigor another 3 units transformed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 (edited) Why? It doesn't really help teh completion of the chapter and this chapter is used to help train units up.You're assuming I'm talking about 4-5, are you? Yes. So you admit that if he needs to use something else, then the threat of missing is high. No it isn't, most of his mov is superfluous. Providing a useful support and being great in combat > being great in combat. Besides, it doesn't really affect his movement at all really: XXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX XXXXPTXXXX If Tibarn and Pelleas use both of thier mov: XXXXTXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX XXXXPXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX So Tibarn still uses his full mov and keep his support with pelleas. Other than the fact that Pelleas supporting Tibarn is what's superfluous. Besides, that's only one of several ways to move them. The majority of other ways to move them mean Pelleas loses his support and takes a big hit. And your little diagram is unrealistic anyway. It's worth the results though. Besides Reyson can vigor another 3 units transformed. Other than the fact that to vigor four units requires that I either use elaborate setups or use a lot of Canto units. And the fact remains that Reyson still has better units to give extra turns to. What you're suggesting is sacrificing efficiency for no notable returns. Edited June 20, 2009 by Jonathan Aulin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zkirsche Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 You're assuming I'm talking about 4-5, are you? 4-E has small enougth chapters for that 10 mov to still be superfluous. So you admit that if he needs to use something else, then the threat of missing is high. No, he never faces real hit rates below 60% unless it's a silly dodge tank like an SM. See, Pelleas hits most of the time, contrary to your beliefs. Then, you can give him a forge if he's really behind. A thunder forge, yes, but it'll train him up quicker. Other than the fact that Pelleas supporting Tibarn is what's superfluous. Besides, that's only one of several ways to move them. The majority of other ways to move them mean Pelleas loses his support and takes a big hit. And your little diagram is unrealistic anyway. Superfluous for Tibarn. Not for Pelleas. He appreciates the support. It's what's best for the team as noone else wants a heaven affinity yet. Unrealistic or not, the point was that they can both move their full movement ranges and stay within their support ranges. Anything to the left, and it's the same. Tibarn only starts limiting his movement if they both go right. But even then, he has enougth mov to get to where he wants then canto back into pelleas' range. Other than the fact that to vigor four units requires that I either use elaborate setups or use a lot of Canto units. And the fact remains that Reyson still has better units to give extra turns to. What you're suggesting is sacrificing efficiency for no notable returns. Pelleas gets a kill. How is that not beneficial to teh team. If someone else was vigored then that same unti woudl be killed. The differance? None. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 4-E has small enougth chapters for that 10 mov to still be superfluous.You're dancing around the point. No, he never faces real hit rates below 60% unless it's a silly dodge tank like an SM. See, Pelleas hits most of the time, contrary to your beliefs. At unreliable hit rates. And you're not even taking terrain into accoount. Then, you can give him a forge if he's really behind. A thunder forge, yes, but it'll train him up quicker. Now you're giving Pelleas favoritism. Superfluous for Tibarn. Not for Pelleas. He appreciates the support. It's what's best for the team as noone else wants a heaven affinity yet. Unrealistic or not, the point was that they can both move their full movement ranges and stay within their support ranges. Anything to the left, and it's the same. Tibarn only starts limiting his movement if they both go right. But even then, he has enougth mov to get to where he wants then canto back into pelleas' range. The support is even more favoritism. And besides, being best for Pelleas != being best for the team. It's a one-way support. Pelleas gets a kill. How is that not beneficial to teh team. If someone else was vigored then that same unti woudl be killed. The differance? None. OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zkirsche Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 You're dancing around the point. Which is? At unreliable hit rates. And you're not even taking terrain into accoount. What? 60% is unreliable? Base Pelleas with Carreau: 144 Hit Sword gen lv 4, silver sword: Avo 60 Warrior lv 4 steel poleax: Avo 61 Falcoknight lv 5 silver lance: Avo 69 Might I add that the falcoknight has the most avoid on thsi chapter excluding Valtome. This means that, at negative biorhythm for pelleas and positive biorhythm for the pegasus, he faces 59.95 real hit against them. In fact, the overall worst hit he can face is against Valtome in a thicket (Only possible if you shoved him there) and at negative biorythm and Valtome at best. This is 32.40% real hit. pretty good. See, the odds have to stack up against up against him in order for him to struggle to hit. Now you're giving Pelleas favoritism I hope you're joking. Gold is overflowing in this game. The support is even more favoritism. And besides, being best for Pelleas != being best for the team. It's a one-way support. Yeah, but it's better for Pelleas than it is for the rest of the team. Every support with Tibarn is one-way anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 (edited) Which is?I wasn't talking about any specific chapter. You mentioned a chapter being used to train my units. What? 60% is unreliable? Base Pelleas with Carreau: 144 Hit Sword gen lv 4, silver sword: Avo 60 Warrior lv 4 steel poleax: Avo 61 Falcoknight lv 5 silver lance: Avo 69 Might I add that the falcoknight has the most avoid on thsi chapter excluding Valtome. This means that, at negative biorhythm for pelleas and positive biorhythm for the pegasus, he faces 59.95 real hit against them. In fact, the overall worst hit he can face is against Valtome in a thicket (Only possible if you shoved him there) and at negative biorythm and Valtome at best. This is 32.40% real hit. pretty good. See, the odds have to stack up against up against him in order for him to struggle to hit. Look at Interceptor's arguments about Aran and Javelins, and you'll see why. Besides, what if Carreau isn't strong enough to kill? I hope you're joking. Gold is overflowing in this game. I mean in the sense that Pelleas isn't the only one who wants a forge. Yeah, but it's better for Pelleas than it is for the rest of the team. Every support with Tibarn is one-way anyway. OK, except you're not taking into account how fast (or slow) the support may take to build up. And the fact that it's a severe movement mismatch. Edited June 20, 2009 by Jonathan Aulin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zkirsche Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 (edited) Look at Interceptor's arguments about Aran and Javelins, and you'll see why. Besides, what if Carreau isn't strong enough to kill? Link? Base Pelleas with a forged thunder/Verrine/Carreau: 32/36/34 Warrior lv 4 steel poleax: Hp 44 Res 11 Axe paladin lv 5 steel axe: Hp 42 Res 14 Halberdier lv 4 steel lance: Hp 40 Res 15 Falcoknight lv 5 silver lance: Hp 37 Res 18 He 2RKO's the warriors with Carreau or above. He 2RKO's the pallys and halbs with Verrine, he 3RKO's the pegasii. So that's one out of these 4 enemy types he can't 2RKO. And there's only a couple that I can recall existing on this chapter. So yeah, Pelleas kills enemies. Heck, even Elincia struggles to kill the occasional enemy as she can't double the warriors/halbs with thier 21-22 AS. I mean in the sense that Pelleas isn't the only one who wants a forge. This isn't PoR, you can make mutiple forges in one chapter. Also, it's easy to build up a support with canto. Edited June 20, 2009 by kirsche Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 Link?Base Pelleas with a forged thunder/Verrine/Carreau: 32/36/34 Warrior lv 4 steel poleax: Hp 44 Res 11 Axe paladin lv 5 steel axe: Hp 42 Res 14 Halberdier lv 4 steel lance: Hp 40 Res 15 Falcoknight lv 5 silver lance: Hp 37 Res 18 He 2RKO's the warriors with Carreau or above. He 2RKO's the pallys and halbs with Verrine, he 3RKO's the pegasii. So that's one out of these 4 enemy types he can't 2RKO. And there's only a couple that I can recall existing on this chapter. So yeah, Pelleas kills enemies. Heck, even Elincia struggles to kill the occasional enemy as she can't double the warriors/halbs with thier 21-22 AS. This isn't PoR, you can make mutiple forges in one chapter. Also, it's easy to build up a support with canto. So he has to use weapons with shitty accuracy to kill. gj Pelleas. And why are we even bringing up Elincia, again? I'll give you the forge point. I rarely use it anyhow. I still think you're overrating how "easy" it is to build up a support with Canto. In this case, we're pairing a 6 move unit with a 10 move flier. And since there's terrain in the way in both maps (trees and thickets in 4-2, swamp in 4-5), that just makes it all the harder. And that's ignoring the fact that our friend Tibarn has better things to do than run back just to build a support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 Pelleas faces 70-80s displayed hit, so it's not "shitty accuracy." It's in fact easier to build supports with units that can Canto in FE10 because units that can't Canto must fulfill two requirements to attack while units with Canto can do both with extra movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reikken Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 I hope you're joking. Gold is overflowing in this game. No it's not... Maybe for parts 1 and 2. But after that, you always have more use for more money. You can forge as many times per chapter as you want, and essentially spend as much as you want on each forge. You're only limited by your money, so you need a lot of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zkirsche Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 So he has to use weapons with shitty accuracy to kill. gj Pelleas. And why are we even bringing up Elincia, again? She can weaken enemies for pelleas to kill and the otehr way around. Heck, Elincia can pair up with Pelleas, it's not liek she has good durabiltiy eitehr so she doesn't want to be in teh firing lines tonnes and tonnes. No it's not...Maybe for parts 1 and 2. But after that, you always have more use for more money. You can forge as many times per chapter as you want, and essentially spend as much as you want on each forge. You're only limited by your money, so you need a lot of money. Well, you get 20000 gold in 4-E-1, tonens of gold from the SS tomes we aren't using (It's liekly that we don't use Ilyana or Soren, Calill is iffy, though), then there's the 10000 gold you get from the CRK's in 3-9, the 20000 gold from the GM's in 3-11, a bunch of crappy skills including shriek in 4-5 etcetera. And that's just from base conversations. From sellables you have to include the gems you get in 4-4, all the useless weapons that come with units you don't want to use any more and some of the hidden items - teh white gem, maelstrom, the Ashera icon, a bunch of arms scrolls and a daemon card. In part 4, you have tonnes of cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reikken Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 Yes, 50k just like that plus some other stuff. But ONE max mt max crit +15 hit silver lance costs 15k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zkirsche Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 Yes, 50k just like that plus some other stuff. But ONE max mt max crit +15 hit silver lance costs 15k. And who wants that? Nephenee, Oscar? As if they have hit issues. Then, +15 crit is kinda pointless too, they'd prefer the +30 from a killer, etcetera. I don't know who wants such a stupid forge. Besides, he doesn't even need the forge, as I've clearly shown how he can hit without it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reikken Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 Of course 30 crit would be better. But not at the cost of 9 mt[/b]. The point of a forge is to combine everything good into one weapon. The hit (as it's only +15, not +25), is by far the least expensive part of the weapon. Take that off, and the price doesn't go down all that much. But more hit does indeed help. No, they don't have hit "issues", depending on what constitutes "issues", but it helps against the dodgier enemies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zkirsche Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 Neph has wrath that she can make use of for extra crit. give her vantage and resolve and she'll become a monster. Heck, even Oscar with his great avo appreciates the crit bonues from wrath. if they wanted crit, they'd look at skills for it, not some stupidly expensive forge which just slows down units like Pelleas. And again, he doesn't even need the forge to hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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