FE4 2nd Gen Tier List

[General Spoon]

Top

Arthur!Levin

Shanan

Aless

Sety!Levin

High

Celice

Laylea

Altenna

Leaf

Amid

Upper Middle

Oifaye

Hawk

Yuria

All Favals go around here?

Middle

Dimna

Tristan

Janne

Fin

Linda

Lower Middle

Mana

Johan

Radney

Roddlevan

Johalva

Asaello

Low

Sharlow

Pit of suckstoobadlytocare

Femina

Daisy

Hannibal

Block of text.

Another block of text.

Shanan and Arthur!Levin's holy weapons both give them massive avoid. However, Holsety is 1~2 and hits resistance.

Edited July 1, 2009 by Miror B.

[Dat Nick]

...I know I said Linda shouldn't be that low, but she sure as hell shouldn't be that high, either...above Fin is just dumb

Edited July 1, 2009 by GreenHairedDraco

[Renall]

Shanan and Arthur!Levin's holy weapons both give them massive avoid. However, Holsety is 1~2 and hits resistance.

Holsety is the better weapon. I don't, however, see "Holsety" anywhere as a character on this tier list. Shanan is the better character, which is what we are ranking.

[dondon151]

That logic doesn't make sense. If I were to compare Sanaki to Calill assuming that Cymbeline gave +20 spd, I wouldn't say Calill > Sanaki because Cymbeline is a weapon and not a character.

[Vykan12]

Why are Oifaye and Fin so low? Oifaye in particular is hilariously better than upper-mid.

Oifaye base lvl: 40 hp, 16 str, 17 skl, 16 spd, 17 def, 8 res, 8 lck

Skills: Pursuit, Critical

Amid base lvl: 29 hp, 11 mag, 10 skl, 14 spd, 4 def, 9 res, 6 lck

Skills: Continue

Pwn’t. In particular, look at that huge gap in concrete durability (11 hp/13 def). Hell, even if Amid had better stats than Oifaye, he’d still be winning thanks to pursuit and a mount alone. And when does Amid beat Oifaye in stats exactly?

Oifaye base lvl: 40 hp, 16 str, 17 skl, 16 spd, 17 def, 8 res, 8 lck

Amid lv 16: 42 hp, 17 mag, 17 skl, 20 spd, 7 def, 12 res, 9 lck

That’s 14 levels I gave Amid to Oifaye’s 0 and he’s still losing concrete durability pretty badly. The mag and AS lead would only matter if he had pursuit or if he could 1HKO enemies.

For that matter, what is Amid doing so high in the first place? Does he get pursuit upon promotion? Does he acquire the holsety? I honestly don't know since I've never used a sub besides Femina, and that was by accident (a pairing didn't occur in time).

[Mekkah]

Amid is a horribly overrated substitute. His only way of ORKOing is Continue, and until he can buy Elwind he is stuck using Wind which likely 3RKOs things, so even a Continue won't help there. He is a slightly better version of Azel before promotion, but he turns Mage Fighter instead of Mage Knight, which means he never solves his mobility problem (it becomes average rather than mediocre, but that still isn't good). Sure, he'll be able to 2HKO things as time passes by, mostly because of Elwind and good mag (I don't think he can use Tornado), but he needs Pursuit Ring to be anything good.

Amid down to below Linda, imo. I consider Amid's contributions pre-Linda near negligible, and Linda has access to Tron off the bat, plus she has Wrath + Elite. Amid's durability is likely slightly better, but when neither get attacked on enemy phase (likely considering the amount of units that you can send out at once to wall things off), Linda's damage output is so much better. She can easily force herself at 1HP through the arena and just OHKO things with Wrath. Oh, and unlike Amid, she gets staves. I don't know why male Mage Fighters don't get staves while female ones do, but it's the sad truth of it. And she gains Continue, which was one of the few things Amid had over her.

[Yojinbo]

When I said that Amid should be rather high I was talking about him in comparision with the other subs not that he should be high tier. He is a decent sub and he's better than any Arthur except Levin!Arthur and Azel!Arthur.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

On Shanan vs. Arthur... man, you really won't give this up. Arthur has no right to the Pursuit Ring. In fact in instances where manufactured Wrath + Holsety is safe (which isn't always), it would be pretty stupid to do it. But Shanan never even needs to consider the Pursuit Ring at all.

Oh? I didn't exactly entitle it to him, it was just a suggestion in the event that you really want Arthur to double 100% of the time and doesn't purposely have Wrath, which apparently was an issue for you. I also don't recall any1 saying Shana needs it... the only thing I said he needs is the Leg ring to make up for the fact that promoted Arthur is obviously seeing more combat. Pointless sentence is pointless.

Shanan is also a prepromote, so his unmounted status (and bear in mind Arthur's unmounted too for quite a long time, certainly not going to promote before Shanan is around) is balanced by the fact that he's got better bases and a higher level.

That's already been noted since you know, it's fucking obvious. A wrath activated Arthur is 1RKOing just like Shanan, with less weapon use at that. What Shanan has above him during the time Arthur is unpromoted is greater concrete durability and MOV by 1. But again, how the fuck does this make up for the more action Arthur is doing in C7 and after promotion? Also, being at a higher level means either less EXP or earlier promotion but he's already promoted so it's obviously just the former in this case. Oh and higher chance at activating Big Shield but which of them has it in this game? Neither.

He's good out of the box, he doesn't need massive amounts of experience funneled his way to reach his potential, and although he does get Balmung-dependent by the final chapter, I don't see why you wouldn't be using the hell out of your holy weapons at that point.

Oh look, so does Celice and just about every1 else, not to mention that Arthur is more of an asset and not a detriment in the slightest so I don't see why him needing EXP like many other units is an issue. The second bit is just... what the hell does this counter? I don't recall saying Shanan should be measured on how well he can use other weapons. Sheesh.

Early on, Shanan's overkill offense is so obscene that he can easily kill with weaker weapons and not worry about survival too much (he still has lots of SPD and some DEF, something Arthur doesn't). So he's able to use his maxed-out gold for whatever he needs. And he doesn't need much... so he could probably pass it to his lover. And what with Patty being predestined, Shanan could become a gold funnel for everybody else. He's got lots of uses even when he's not getting to the party as fast as everybody else.

Actually, he isn't exactly maxing out his gold unless he's got the Thief ring on him and seeing lots of action (which I doubt) and in an efficient playthrough, Bargain ring is more likely inherited by some1, thus Shanan is not likely to have it and the cost to repair his weapon does exist since he'll have to use his Balmung to survive and fight those enemies near him efficiently. Let's see how that goes:

Every enemy except the 4 Dark Mages near the Swordfighters will be killed in 2 hits. The Dark Mages that are killed in 1 have 41 HP and 7 DEF while Shanan has 48 ATK, Swordfighters have 42 HP and 8 DEF and the 3 Dark Mages surrounding the shrine have 47 HP and 7 DEF. I can prove this if you think I'm bullshitting.

4 Swordfightes that are killed in 2 hits. That's 8 total so far.

4 Dark Mages that are killed in 1 hit. That's 12 total so far.

3 Darks Mages that are killed in 2 hits. That's 18 total so far.

Dark Bishop that is killed in 2 hits. That's 20 total.

The Arena would only grant him 17500 and he starts with 5k. To repair those 20 uses, He has to spend 20k out of 22500 so he's actually ending up with half the gold he started: 2500. Maxed out gold ain't likely. He needs the Thief ring and yeah he's the best candidate for it.

that argument is pretty much what I would suggest to put him above Levin!Sety since they both have the same movement and Sety only has 1-2 range. But Arthur has 1-2 range AND more MOV which is quite a significant lead.

Also, no1 was arguing Holyn!Ayra children vs Lex!Ayra children. It's vs Jamka!Ayra.

Edited July 1, 2009 by Sirius

[Just call me AL]

On Holyn vs. Lex for Ayra's kids... don't underrate Elite here. Foot units are getting to the battle later in some cases. Elite helps this out a good deal. Skasaha not getting swords from his dad is rectified rather quickly by having Lakche sell him one of hers as soon as he can afford it. Not as simple as just getting it from Holyn, but still. Also, I would consider the Balmung glitch totally invalid, as it's an exploit of a game oversight.

Exactly the point I was trying make here when someone was trying to argue that inherence from HolynXAyra gives a bit of an edge over JamukaXAyra. I would also say Adept shouldn't be underrated here here, seeing as Adept > Luna here. (Lakche gets it anyway from promotion, but Sakasher doesn't. JamukaX Ayra helps rectify that by passing down Adept to not only Lakche, but to Sakasher as well.)

[Dat Nick]

Oifaye>>>>>Amid

All for bumping Oifaye into high tier if he can be proven better or just as good to somebody actually there, since Mekkah's advocating Amid down [which I agree with]

[Rei Rei]

Ehh, again, not all x!Faval are lower than Hawk or Yuria, nor higher than Fin[wtf] or even Tristan.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

All for bumping Oifaye into high tier if he can be proven better or just as good to somebody actually there, since Mekkah's advocating Amid down [which I agree with]

Oifaye's the best in chapter 6 and his Growths aren't anything like Jeigan plus his base Mag actually makes a good Magic Sword user so he'll be able to counter-attack 1-2 range pretty well. And then... there's Leaf who has a slow start... Ofaiye's definitely comparable to Leaf that's for sure.

[Mekkah]

When I said that Amid should be rather high I was talking about him in comparision with the other subs not that he should be high tier. He is a decent sub and he's better than any Arthur except Levin!Arthur and Azel!Arthur.

I disagree. I'd say he's also worse than Claude!Arthur, and any Arthur that gets Pursuit (Midir, Beowulf, Alec, Fin) and any Arthur that gets Ambush (Lex, Ardan). That really just leaves big jokes like Holyn, Jamka, Dew and Noish, and Jamka and Noish at least still have more skills to boost their power output. Remember that Arthur always has Wrath, and attacking twice with mediocre mag > attacking once with good mag.

For example, Amid at 15/0 with Wind has 24 atk and 17% Continue, whereas Midir!Arthur at 15/0 has 18 atk, doubles everything with 15 AS or less, and has Charge + Wrath. An enemy with 1 res takes 23 damage from Amid, and 2x17=34 from Arthur even without Arthur's better skillz. Even with 10 res, Amid does 14, while Arthur does 2x8=16.

And after promotion, I'd say it's not even arguable in any way for Amid anymore due to Arthur getting a horse.

Edited July 1, 2009 by Mekkah

[Renall]

that argument is pretty much what I would suggest to put him above Levin!Sety since they both have the same movement and Sety only has 1-2 range. But Arthur has 1-2 range AND more MOV which is quite a significant lead.

He loses MOV for half the second gen. You can't just pretend his before-promotion time doesn't exist, or that it isn't a significant chunk of time.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

He loses MOV for half the second gen. You can't just pretend his before-promotion time doesn't exist, or that it isn't a significant chunk of time.

He loses MOV to Shanan by 1 for Chapter 7 (which I've shown that he's actually getting more action than Shanan despite that) and C8. He's easily promoted by C9 since Elite Ring is easier to toss around. Not to mention that Arthur COULD start with the Elite or Leg ring while Shanan can't. Yes, those 2 are resources every1 would like but the point is simply: Arthur has access to them: Shanan doesn't.

Shanan Loses MOV by 3 for Chapters 9, 10 and Final. You're the one pretending the MOV lead isn't significant.

Edited July 1, 2009 by Sirius

[Renall]

If he's promoted by ch9. I can see it, but it depends. And ch8 is huge for Shanan, he can rape nearly everything of any consequence there and has lots of forests to fight in invincibly.

ch9 you're fighting Hannibal's giant army first thing, and it's like 20 feet away from you. MOV is not that important. You get rushed by wyverns, camping on the mountains is viable. Arthur is useful for rushing ahead to help rescue Corple/Sharlow. Big whoop. He's good vs. the guys that come south from the NW corner, but Shanan could've easily reached that canyon by then. They both aren't that helpful rushing through the ballistas, but Shanan will have more HP and DEF. Arion is dangerous for both but less so for Shanan since he can start at full HP because he doesn't need Wrath (of course you should just Berserk him if you can).

ch10 you have an early rush to get the children and fight the boss, horseys win there. Then they rush west to take that castle while the foot units gather in the center to fight that army in the north forests. Shanan has no difficulty here, and it's the hard part. Arthur's good against Ishtar if in Wrath range, as long as she doesn't strike first. Alvis is a nightmare for everybody. Not seeing a massive MOV win here.

Final chapter you don't need to move that fast. You'd like to have as much offense to bring to bear as possible. Both are useful here.

And then Shanan is buttraping Arthur in ch7 and ch8. Yep, he's better.

[Mekkah]

Arion is dangerous for both but less so for Shanan since he can start at full HP because he doesn't need Wrath (of course you should just Berserk him if you can).

Arion has Nihil, so Arthur cannot crit, and Shanan cannot Meteor Sword. However, Arthur avoids a counter, and does a lot more damage in general.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

If he's promoted by ch9. I can see it, but it depends. And ch8 is huge for Shanan, he can rape nearly everything of any consequence there and has lots of forests to fight in invincibly.

Guess what, so can Arthur. Not to mention that many of the Wyverns there have Javelins. What the fuck is Shanan doing against those that indirectly attack him? Also, what the fuck is he doing against the Hero Bow Armors? Arthur's either doing the same Shanan is doing or weakening the enemies.

ch9 you're fighting Hannibal's giant army first thing, and it's like 20 feet away from you. MOV is not that important. You get rushed by wyverns, camping on the mountains is viable. Arthur is useful for rushing ahead to help rescue Corple/Sharlow. Big whoop. He's good vs. the guys that come south from the NW corner, but Shanan could've easily reached that canyon by then. They both aren't that helpful rushing through the ballistas, but Shanan will have more HP and DEF. Arion is dangerous for both but less so for Shanan since he can start at full HP because he doesn't need Wrath (of course you should just Berserk him if you can).

If camping on the mountains is viable as you say then guess what, Arthur is still better since he too can move on those mountains and he's counter-attacking Javelins.

Arthur can move far ahead and deal with the ballistaes as they have about 80% accuracy so they won't even bother attacking him and then there's some mountain terrain he can cross and use to take out every single ballistae and the boss before the others get there. Mekkah already covered why Arthur's better for Arion. Shanan > Arthur against Arion is complete bullshit.

ch10 you have an early rush to get the children and fight the boss, horseys win there. Then they rush west to take that castle while the foot units gather in the center to fight that army in the north forests. Shanan has no difficulty here, and it's the hard part. Arthur's good against Ishtar if in Wrath range, as long as she doesn't strike first. Alvis is a nightmare for everybody. Not seeing a massive MOV win here.

No1 has difficulty with the Westernmost castle in this chapter so just sending Celice and 2 other capable mounted units is quite sufficient so Arthur doesn't need to go there and once again... he'll end up with a MOV lead.

As for Alvis, Lvl 30 average Shanan has 59.6 HP and 4.9 RES and Alvis has 70 ATK that TARGETS RES while average lvl 30 Levin!Arthur has 67.4 HP and 12.2 RES. Can we say, backfired?

Final chapter you don't need to move that fast. You'd like to have as much offense to bring to bear as possible. Both are useful here.

Lol. Arthur helps fight against the nearby dark mages and mounted units. Once those are gone, Celice with Tyrfing nukes Edda by himself so then we have Brian and his failures easily killed. Then we get Scorpio and company and need I remind you that they're freaking Bow users? Then we've got the bitch witch Hilda with Bolganon and a shitload of Barons using Tron and Silver Lance. Followed by Ishtar, some Swordfighters and Sages oh and the Falco trio with EARTH SWORD and Nihill. Siding with Shanan in a C10 argument is the epitome of failure.

And then Shanan is buttraping Arthur in ch7 and ch8. Yep, he's better.

C7, I already explained. Yes, Shanan is statistically better than Arthur and much better offensively but again, due to the chapter flow, Arthur will see more action.

C8, this one I already conceded before you even brought it up but uh...

If either Shanan or Arthur take on the mounted units, Arthur wins since they have Javelins and the leader has Magic. The 3 Mage Sisters? Same shit.

If either Shanan or Arthur join the foot people in fighting the Armors, alright, Shanan's doing great against the direct attack ones but what's the situation with those that are ranged? "Buttraping" isn't the right way to put it.

Arthur wins in more chapters. To continue arguing this is pointless.

Edited July 1, 2009 by Sirius

[Vykan12]

I also think Oifaye should be > Leaf, though I wouldn't push it beyond that (Altenna and Julia are insanely good).

It's pretty much the same case as Amid. Oifaye beats Leaf in raw stats when he joins, and continues to do so until the level gap is closed by ~13.

Oifaye 15 (base lvl): 40 hp, 16 str, 17 skl, 16 spd, 17 def, 8 res, 8 lck

Oifaye lv 20: 45 hp, 18 str, 19 skl, 18 spd, 19 def, 9 res, 10 lck

Leaf lv 1 (base lvl): 32 hp, 12 str, 10 skl, 9 spd, 10 def, 3 res, 8 lck

Leaf lv 14: 49 hp, 20 str, 17 skl, 15 spd, 17 def, 4 res, 11 lck

If we focus on the second set of comparisons (Oifaye lv 20 vs Leaf lv 14), you’ll notice it’s hard to call either side a winner. On offence, it’s 2 str vs 3 spd, and durability-wise, we have 4 hp vs 2 def, 4 res and slightly better avo. I’d say Oifaye is still statistically comparable to better than Leaf until he reaches promotion.

But once again, Oifaye’s other advantages manage to offset that. From a skill perspective, Oifaye’s pursuit + critical >>>>> Leaf’s continue + critical, then Oifaye has a mount, meaning he can reach enemies before Leaf can, save villages sooner, switch his weapon after attacking, etc. Oh, and 2 weapon types > 1.

Now you’ll get no argument from me that Leaf is clearly superior post promotion (assuming he gains pursuit), but how long does that last? 2 chapters? I wish Paperblade would re-post his enemy stats so I could show Oifaye doesn’t really have any trouble killing even lategame, whereas Leaf certainly had trouble both killing and surviving earlygame.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

I assume you mean switch his weapon AFTER attacking.

[Dat Nick]

though I wouldn't push it beyond that (Altenna and Julia are insanely good).

I'd agree if Narga came earlier. As it stands, I see Julia needing to go way down.

[Vykan12]

Resire gives her both very good offence (doubling while targetting res is great in a game where enemy res is nonexistent) and also makes her pretty much invincible (healing effect). That, combined with staves and the eventual narga rape are pretty good reasons for having her in high. There is that whole movement issue, though.

Edited July 1, 2009 by Vykan12

[Dat Nick]

Resire gives her both very good offence (doubling

whut

[Dr. Tarrasque]

whut

I just had an 11 SPD Julia (-1 AS) double a 9 SPD Dark Mage (-3), it seems negative AS is considered. C7 has plenty Lance users and so do the other chapters.

Edited July 1, 2009 by Sirius

[Mekkah]

On offence, it’s 2 str vs 3 spd

This really is a no brainer on the str side (Leaf), if both were to have the same skills/weapons. Of course, Oifaye has access to higher might and he actually makes use out of AS through doubling rather than just Continue's % based activation, so this is a landslide for Oifaye either way. Never mind his ability to move again.

Edited July 1, 2009 by Mekkah