Fire Emblem Tier List

[Fruitloop Multipuck]

Yeah I don't know how that happened. Erk > Lucius no doubt.

Adding my agreement here.

Also agreed with Hector > Harken, aswell as Hector going into High. I think Eliwood vs Hector is also clearly in Hector's favor. Hector wins until Eliwood promotes, at worst, and Eliwood promotes at Ch 26. This gives us 8 chaps max of Eliwood winning. 10 if you assume Eliwood goes to 30 and 32x. And this is also assuming that he's still winning after Hector promotes. Whereas 11 up through 25 is......unless I'm miscounting, 20 chaps if you go to 19xx, 19 otherwise. Twice as many. Sort of a blowout, really, I think.

Yes. Eliwood also might get the second Heaven's Seal if we're playing Lyn, in which case he can have fun winning Cog of Destiny.

What about Pent? He has like 1.5 chapters over Harken, and he gets points for high staff level, but I believe Harken is better at combat after he shows up. IMO wherever Harken goes, Pent should join him, maybe staying in the space right above him.

Makes sense I suppose.

Also, wondering if Farina has any hope of rising, though not out of her tier. Her cost apparently doesn't matter (see: Dart), she could plausibly get a B support with Florina, and last I checked nobody liked Heath anyways.

[CATS]

Farina probably won't be able to rise too much. She's just not there long enough to do anything. I guess she does have 3 chaps on Jaffar, who is just slightly above her, though I don't know whether it's a good idea to keep fielding her after Ch 25, either.

Looking at the current FE8 tier topic, though, we apparently have pretty strong support for the "units are tiered based on being fielded in every chapter, regardless of how inefficient this may be, and negative utility does not exist" mindset. But if we take that mindset, then this whole tier list needs to be re-written. For example, there's no way in hell Rebecca or Bartre should be any less than Upper Mid, considering that they join in Ch 12. Indeed I'd easily argue them over people like Pent and Harken if negative utility does not exist, as they're helping for what......19, 20 chaps before Harken even shows up? Not much of a contest. So as long as those two stay in lower mid, I'm assuming that negative utility exists, regardless of how much outrage there might be towards it.

Now, to see how much Exp Farina can gain in Ch 25. Judging by the recent Guy vs Erk/Lucius debaet, it's also quite obvious that we're considering money to be effectively infinite, and Farina joins with A Lances, so we can hand her an Axereaver and send her to fight that lower left axe section. They have mostly 15 Wt weapons (Steel Axes and Halberds; 5 AS loss) and 9-10 Spd, while base Farina w/ Axereaver is 8 AS, so she's already borderline for doubling (doubling reliably after just a couple level ups), while easily 2HKO'ing and being perfectly fine on the defensive side (faces like mid-20's displayed hit from those Steel Axes). And that section is blanketed with forests, so even if others were much better at fighting here, they can't get there to do it, while Farina has unlimited mobility across that whole part of the map. So this is free, easy Exp for her which doesn't even lower efficiency at all.

How much Exp? Well, they're all L11, while Farina joins at L12, so she gets 27 Exp for a kill. 7 Pirates starting on map, and there's a good number of reinforcements. I'll say 6 reinforcements. This is about 3 level ups, and if she kills the Warrior, that's another one. Throw in whatever else she might be able to kill by the end of the chap: she's basically invincible against those Monks in the upper right, and after some levels can one-round with the Javelin, and she can directly cross the map in 3-4 turns thanks to flying. I'll say 2 more for killing Monks. And she can now promote with no issues, since there's only one flier who has a decent chance to get used.

18/1 Farina

15 Atk, 16.7 Spd----33.5 Hp, 13.5 Def, 15.8 Res, 46.1 Avo

Has she made herself worth using? Good question. Let's compare to 23 Florina:

15.4 Atk, 19.9 Spd----34.6 Hp, 9.1 Def, 13.3 Res, 57.3 Avo

Pretty impressive imo. I'd say we can keep using her, especially considering Ch 26 gives you alot of slots and fliers are useful (tons of peaks obstructing movement). So when Jaffar shows up in 28x......

18/5 Farina

17 Atk, 18.5 Spd----36.5 Hp, 14.5 Def, 17 Res, 51.5 Avo

Base Jaffar

19 Atk, 24 Spd----34 Hp, 15 Def, 11 Res, 58 Avo

Eh. Jaffar wins in raw stats, but he's locked on swords and Farina flies. Pretty close. I'd say flying takes the cake for Farina. I mean, just look at 28x. Then the next chap is CoD where Farina's 6 Res lead suddenly becomes extremely relevant.

Edited September 2, 2009 by CATS

[Dat Nick]

For example, there's no way in hell Rebecca or Bartre should be any less than Upper Mid, considering that they join in Ch 12.

It's not worth describing how ridiculously retarded this is with just words.

Edited September 2, 2009 by Joker

[CATS]

Do explain. Obviously positive utility exists if Marcus is ranked over Harken. Thus, if negative utility does not exist, and taking up a unit slot doesn't matter, then Rebecca and Bartre's actions before Harken joins can only be considered a positive for them.

Edited September 2, 2009 by CATS

[Mekkah]

If there's only positive utility possible, and Upper Mid+ is only for people with positive utility, then yeah. Unfortunately, this puts like everyone in Top/High/Upper Mid, so I don't think this is a good idea. Either go with negative utility exists, or put people in Lower Mid/Low if they have much less positive utility than others.

Why did Guy just drop into Upper Mid anyway? Why is Harken above Eliwood in High tier? Why is Harken a tier above Geitz? Guy, Erk and Lucius all belong in High imo.

Dart looks a bit high right now considering his bad start, but after you move those three up I don't think it's that bad anymore.

[Jaybee]

Lol.

I think Raven pushed Guy below Erk, making him fall kinda far.

[Florete]

Hm...Lucius does have a notable C staff rank on promotion in comparison to Erk's E. I could see Lucius > Erk, but I'm more inclined to agree with the opposite.

Edited September 2, 2009 by Red Fox of Fire

[Fei Mao]

Stats CATS here are the stats for 27(Jerme) to Endgame (I couldn't get 28x though)

[Colonel M]

Eh, I have a feeling if Pent | Harken are that high... Geitz should see to it to rise a little.

[Fruitloop Multipuck]

Eh, I have a feeling if Pent | Harken are that high... Geitz should see to it to rise a little.

Seems likely at this point that Pent and Harken are moving down to top of Upper-Middle and Hector passes them on his way up, and then Erk/Guy/Lucius also have a shot at High. At which point the only units separating Geitz and Pent/Harken are Dart and Florina anyways.

Have a feeling CATS may have overdone it a little with Farina's level, but Farina > Jaffar looks good to me. Farina > Rath, too?

[CATS]

Thanks, Cyas. Now I just need to go and do 25, 26, and 28x and we'll have a full set. Although, did you get VoL (32x)?

Also, agreed on Erk/Guy/Lucius/Hector to high, and Harken/Pent out of it.

Oh, and yeah, Farina > Rath sounds good at first glance. Rath has what before Farina joins? 22, 23, 23x, 24. 23 and 23x have very few unit slots, and none of these chaps are kind to him (23 is the desert, 23x has nothing but promoted magic users, I guess 24 has some Wyverns which he might be able to double with the Steel Bow by now), while Farina's join chapter is very nice to her. I'd say Rath might be looking at a 2 or 3 level lead when Farina joins, at best, and that by the end of Ch 25 he won't have a lead anymore.

Edited September 2, 2009 by CATS

[Fei Mao]

Thanks, Cyas. Now I just need to go and do 25, 26, and 28x and we'll have a full set. Although, did you get VoL (32x)?

Also, agreed on Erk/Guy/Lucius/Hector to high, and Harken/Pent out of it.

Yeah I managed to get 32x.

[Fruitloop Multipuck]

Also thinking Florina > Dart? Seems like most of what he has going for him is an offense lead after he gets going, but Florina has availability lead, is definitely better than him when he joins, has flight, and a major durability win against magic.

Why is Priscilla above Serra?

Edited September 2, 2009 by Destiny Puck

[CATS]

Could easily agree with Florina > Dart. Remember infinite money, so by the time Dart has an offense lead, Florina can just use Killer Lances and one-round everything anyways.

As for Priscilla vs Serra, the general opinion seemed to be that 2 move > joining earlier/level lead/earlier promotion. I did/still do disagree, but it's a matter which is quite difficult to objectively prove one way or the other, so w/e.

Edited September 2, 2009 by CATS

[Fruitloop Multipuck]

Alright, adding all the changes together for High and Upper-Middle we get:

-High-

Ninian/Nils

Matthew

Sain

Kent

Lowen

Oswin

Hector

Eliwood

Lucius

Erk

Guy

-Upper Mid-

Pent

Harken

Florina

Dart

Geitz

Dorcas

Hawkeye

Canas

Legault

Lyn

With Eliwood vs. Lucius/Guy/Erk possibly being something we need to work out, but this should do for now; they're at least in the right tiers.

And Farina to above Rath.

[Fruitloop Multipuck]

I may be half-crazy here, but does anyone think Isadora has a chance against Lyn?

[Colonel M]

Isadora's 6 Con is her only weakspot. Might as well glance at it.

28 HP | 13 Str | 12 Skl | 16 Spd | 10 Luck | 8 Def | 6 Res

Well, not very durable unforunately. She does come with a free Angelic Robe, but her Def is more of the pressing issue. Though to compare... I'd say Lyn is about Level 12 at worst:

23.7 HP | 8.4 Str | 13.6 Skl | 15.6 Spd | 11.05 Luck | 4.2 Def | 3.3 Res

If it's any higher, dunno. Her Con is 5 though.

So more review on Isadora instead, weapons:

Steel Sword - 22 Atk, 12 AS

Killing Edge - 22 Atk, 15 AS

Silver Sword - 26 Atk, 14 AS

Killer Lance - 23 Atk, 13 AS

Javelin - 19 Atk, 11 AS

Iron Axe - 21 Atk, 12 AS

Hand Axe - 20 Atk, 10 AS

So it all pends on how high the enemy's AS is, and probably what supports Lyn got. Later date: 20/1 vs. --/5

Lyn - 32.3 HP | 13.6 Str | 20.4 Skl | 20 Spd | 15.45 Luck | 8.8 Def | 10.7 Res | 6 Con

Isadora - 31 HP | 14.2 Str | 13.4 Skl | 18 Spd | 11.8 Luck | 8.8 Def | 7 Res

So now they're fairly close on durability and Lyn has that Str gap closed in. Meanwhile, Isadora has the better weapons of choice (Killer Axes give decent Mt and weigh her down to 13 AS, which is fairly close to the average Spd needed to double if I'm not mistaken).

Guess it all pends on the supports given, which both have a good list of.

So, perhaps if I can take a look at the snapshots when CATS has them I can make a safer assumption. Though he's not that far in the game so he could shed more light into the subject.

[CATS]

I've got up through Ch 27 now. I'm not taking snapshots, just recording stats and weapons. I can post what I already have if you want, but I was planning to wait until I had the full set and then just post it all at once.

Anyways, Lyn has a pretty big disadvantage which I think is being atleast somewhat overlooked--late ass promotion. Eliwood's High Tier and he uses the same promo item as Lyn. When you use them together, now you have promotion issues. One of them has to promote at 28x, which is pretty damn late. It's only 2 chaps before Hector's promotion. If Lyn has to wait until 28x to promote, then Isadora has 8 chapters before she's facing a promoted Lyn, which is enough for her to gain more than just 4 levels, I would think. She's L5 at the start of Ch 27 in my current run, and it's still two more chapters before Lyn's promotion, so I'd peg Isadora's level as more like --/7 when Lyn is 20/1.

Too lazy to draw up stats atm but I think it's pretty clear that Isadora is superior while Lyn's still unpromoted. I mean, not just one but two extra weapon types over Lyn, along with 3 more move? Lyn would need a crushing victory in pure stats to overcome that.

Then we have 8 chaps of Isadora vs unpromoted Lyn, as compared to only 4 chaps of Isadora vs promoted Lyn (since neither is particularly likely to go to the 2-3 deployment slot chaps, 30 and 32x).

Edited September 4, 2009 by CATS

[Swordsalmon]

Isadora also has several good support options. I'm sure Marcus would take a B support with her for the full Avoid, and she's likely both Geitz and Harken's best options.

Lyn... Has possibly Florina, and maybe Kent. Assuming both of them aren't supporting Fiora, of course. ^_^

[Mekkah]

Swordsalmon, we're done past the idea where supports can build up in any reasonable time in FE7 unless they're REALLY fast. Like, Hector/Eliwood or Sain/Kent type match-ups, which float well in both movement, viability of being in play and of course support speed. Each of the options you suggested sucks in at least one of these categories. I'll leave it to you to figure out the problem areas.

[CATS]

Well, do give him some credit. Lyn x Florina is 42 turns to A. Move gap or not, 42 turns is 42 turns. That's really fucking fast. They reach A rank before Kent x Sain even gets B Rank (purely turnwise, ofcourse). And then Kent's support with Lyn is only 4 turns slower than his Sain support, and Kent doesn't exactly have anything better to be doing with his B support slot. So I'd imagine that Lyn can indeed get some supports. I don't really see it as helping her very much though, since all the supports do is boost her Atk, and her problem has always been garbage durability.

[Florete]

Well, A/B Florina/Kent gives Lyn +2 Def when both are around for what it's worth. Although only +5 avoid doesn't help her much.

[Mekkah]

+2 def might change some swordie/mage #RKO rates (and this is only after she has a B with BOTH and they're in range), but she'll still get 2HKO'd by Steel Lances.

[Colonel M]

So what happened to closing the Geitz | Pent / Harken gap?

[CATS]

Raven not checking the topic very often, I guess.