Robert Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Thats called Empty Bluster. It's when you say something with out any supporting evidence. Your two posts were inconsistent. Thank you for finally showing some semblance of logic instead of spouting off useless crap. I can infer just fine. But again, this isn't FFtF, and as such, stupid one-liners from safety PSAs don't further the discussion. Either post like you have a brain or don't post. The prior post goes against the latter post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crystal Shards Posted August 3, 2009 Author Share Posted August 3, 2009 (edited) Thats called Empty Bluster. It's when you say something with out any supporting evidence. Your two posts were inconsistent. The prior post goes against the latter post. Actually it's not. When you finally posted something useful, I thanked you. Your prior posts were pretty void of any kind of logic or reasoning, which is what the second quote is referring to. You first quoted a PSA, meaning you didn't even use your own words or an argument (talk about Empty Bluster) and then you continued to be an ass for the sake of being an ass, not contributing to the conversation, even though I kept trying to pull it from you. Anyway, I'm done. Continue being an asshole if you want, that's cool, but I actually want to know what people think about the subject, and so unless you actually have something to contribute to the conversation I'll be ignoring you. Edited August 3, 2009 by Crystal Shards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuuda Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Robert, I should remind you not to spam, especially in this section. In the future, try writing more than a single phrase for a post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Right, next time I'll spell it out for the slow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Right, next time I'll spell it out for the slow. If you make another spam post or otherwise unrelated to the topic, you'll be suspended. Consider this your final warning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der Kommissar Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 No one should have to clean your semiliquid remains up off the road if you get in a high speed accident, so I have little problem with seatbelt enforcement. If you're going to grouse about your freedoms, there are actual ones you can grouse about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quanta Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 (edited) No one should have to clean your semiliquid remains up off the road if you get in a high speed accident, so I have little problem with seatbelt enforcement. If you're going to grouse about your freedoms, there are actual ones you can grouse about. A man after my own heart. Seriously, though, can anyone provide me with a good reason why you have a right to not wear a seatbelt? Edited August 4, 2009 by quanta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix Wright Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 A man after my own heart. Seriously, though, can anyone provide me with a good reason why you have a right to not wear a seatbelt? No. There is no logical reason to be less secure when driving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superbus Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 I'll tell you why laws like this became mandatory: because people got tired of cleaning bodies off the interstate. I fought in one actual fire as a volunteer firefighter in 2004. The rest of my time was spent cleaning up accidents, and I had a couple fatalities. Every fatality was the same: 1) no seat belt, or 2) motorcycle. People get sick of cleaning up bodies, so they mandate stuff like this. However, as shitty as it was to clean up these accidents, it was much shittier for the families of those involved to have lost a loved one. Ultimately, it was their decision, and in what some would call a monumentally short-sighted decision on my part, to this day, I almost never wear a seatbelt, unless I know I'm coming up on a checkpoint (it's law in Connecticut to wear a belt). I just feel better without one, and furthermore, I hate having that thing strapped across my shoulder; it makes me self-concious, and even when I wear one, I don't wear it properly (I tuck the shoulder strap under my arm). As a former firefighter, I would *recommend* everyone wear a belt. As a citizen, I don't want the clumsy, ineffective government regulating my decisions behind a wheel that don't hurt anyone but me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteor Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 I don't care if adults want to leave off their seatbelts. That's just begging for something wrong to happen, and I have no sympathy for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
California Mountain Snake Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 If your going to actively complain about the big bad government making you wear a seat belt then I think you need a slap, but as far as I'm concerned it's a person's choice not to wear a seat belt, and considering the number of deaths from flying unbuckled bodies is minuscule compared to say, the amount of cellphone related collisions and fatalities, I'd say holding up the safety argument for why this law should happen before many other safe driving laws is a thin argument. Basically, what 'Bus said. I'm just glad that Vermont still lets people ride in the bed of a pickup if all the seats in the cab are filled with buckled passengers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 To be honest, I can't imagine life without wearing a seatbelt. It's mandatory all-round in Australia. While I do recognise the argument that we need to worry more about reckless driving, I don't think it's a BAD idea to implement mandatory seatbelts as a safety precaution. Besides, what do you lose by wearing a seatbelt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jyosua Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 I'm just curious, but does nobody think about the mental trauma you cause to the other passengers in the car, when during an accident you go flying out the windshield and die because you decided to be the cool kid and not wear a seatbelt? I mean seriously, unless you have a death wish, what's the problem with wearing a seatbelt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 I'm just curious, but does nobody think about the mental trauma you cause to the other passengers in the car, when during an accident you go flying out the windshield and die because you decided to be the cool kid and not wear a seatbelt? I mean seriously, unless you have a death wish, what's the problem with wearing a seatbelt? My thoughts exactly. I don't see where 'Bus is coming from, since seatbelts feel fine to me It's more than likely that I'm just used to wearing it, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 I can see the point of these laws, but the question exactly is how well can this actually be enforced? If someone's gonna be enough of a moron to drive unbuckled anyways, how's this gonna stop them? At best, it's gonna just nab money before cleaning their bodies off the street anyways. Not that I see a problem with this. I know people that see a cop in the vicinity, and will pretend to pull their satbelts downa nd hold them to seem like they're buckled, then let go and drive unbuckled regardless. Some people are just stupid, end of story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
California Mountain Snake Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 I'm just curious, but does nobody think about the mental trauma you cause to the other passengers in the car, when during an accident you go flying out the windshield and die because you decided to be the cool kid and not wear a seatbelt? I mean seriously, unless you have a death wish, what's the problem with wearing a seatbelt? Yeah, it's awful. People who don't wear seatbelts are making a stupid choice for themselves and a selfish choice for their family and loved ones. But that doesn't mean it should be a law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jyosua Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 I think it should, because people who make that stupid choice would then be funding the government with money that right now, it desperately needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esau of Isaac Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 I'm just curious, but does nobody think about the mental trauma you cause to the other passengers in the car, when during an accident you go flying out the windshield and die because you decided to be the cool kid and not wear a seatbelt? I am sure many do. However, there is not an incredibly large amount of illogic in the idea of driving at times without a seatbelt. Areas with good visibility, low traffic, and short times on the road are events in which many will forgo the extra couple moments to fasten themselves in, especially if (as 'Bus has earlier related) their belts are uncomfortable for them. I mean seriously, unless you have a death wish, what's the problem with wearing a seatbelt? Anyone can come up with some kind of meaningless or trifling reason; either way, the crux of the opposing argument is more one of convenience than safety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuuda Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 that don't hurt anyone but me. it was much shittier for the families of those involved to have lost a loved one. Sorry, but aren't you sort of contradicting yourself, Superbus? To be frank, this all seems rather pointless. On the one hand, I doubt a law is going to make people who don't wear seatbelts start putting them on. Most people know why they should wear a seatbelt, and do. It is a waste of energy to try and save stupid people from themselves. On the other hand, there are far more important freedoms worth defending than your right to not follow sensible safety measures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Spoon Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 For those of you concerned about your image, I have a story to tell you. About two years back, only five miles from my house, a girl I know wasn't wearing her seatbelt, and was flung threw the windshield of the car when the driver hit a field approach. She was airlifted to the hospital, and stayed there longer than the other people who were in the car. She lost several teeth, and wore a cast for the rest of the schoolyear. The other people in the car were wearing their seatbelts, and they were only bruised up a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
California Mountain Snake Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 For those of you concerned about your image, I have a story to tell you. About two years back, only five miles from my house, a girl I know wasn't wearing her seat belt, and was flung threw the windshield of the car when the driver hit a field approach. She was airlifted to the hospital, and stayed there longer than the other people who were in the car. She lost several teeth, and wore a cast for the rest of the schoolyear. The other people in the car were wearing their seat belts, and they were only bruised up a bit. My Grandmother was a diabetic, and while driving home one day on a twisty Vermont mountain road some years ago, she passed out. Her car flew off the road at 60 miles an hour and hit a tree head-on in mid-air. When she left the road her body was thrown into the passenger side seat because she wasn't wearing a seat belt, and when she hit the tree the steering wheel on the drivers side, back in the day before steering wheels collapsed on impact, was shoved backwards with such force that it cut the drivers side seat in half. Had she been wearing her seat belt, she would have been dead. Does this mean not wearing your seat belt is a good idea? No. It's just an anecdote, and anecdotes don't prove much in terms of statistical analysis. I think it should, because people who make that stupid choice would then be funding the government with money that right now, it desperately needs. The government deserves to collect revenue from fines on stupidity? That makes a lot of sense, especially since one could argue the government only needs money because of past stupidity right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix Wright Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 (edited) I'm just curious, but does nobody think about the mental trauma you cause to the other passengers in the car, when during an accident you go flying out the windshield and die because you decided to be the cool kid and not wear a seatbelt? I mean seriously, unless you have a death wish, what's the problem with wearing a seatbelt? You really don't even have to die for the other person to get trauma. If a person feels bad about hitting you, they are going to feel bad for quite some time. When I got hit on my bike last year, I haven't tried to do much with a bike ever since that incident. I still ride (when I feel like it), but it's usually DIRECTLY across my street and I go slower than a slug. My brain doesn't let me pedal fast. XD Edited August 6, 2009 by Old Snake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jyosua Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 I think it should, because people who make that stupid choice would then be funding the government with money that right now, it desperately needs. The government deserves to collect revenue from fines on stupidity? That makes a lot of sense, especially since one could argue the government only needs money because of past stupidity right now. This is true. Fine, I'll give you a better reason. Safety regulations exist for pretty much everything. Why should a seatbelt in a car be any different? 98% of the time, it will minimize your injuries in a crash, so it makes sense to enforce it's use. Logically, the only real way to enforce this in a manner in which the majority will respond positively, is to make those who violate the law, incur a fine. Their logic is sound, and thus there is no reason why this should even be up for debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aitherion Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Their logic is sound Our government actually acts out of logic now?! When did that happen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 (edited) Again making comparisons to Australia, since America is obviously a shit country. In Australia wearing a seatbelt has been heavily drilled into our brains; the government uses shock images of mutilated bodies shown during TV primetime (see and related videos) to reinforce the fact that not wearing a seatbelt can and most likely will cause some horrible damage. On top of this, it's been law for quite some time, and it's taught in schools that wearing a seatbelt is the proper thing to do, along with parents enforcing the same onto their own children. If it is implemented as a law somewhere in the US and is enforced onto the next generation, it may not make changes now, but it will certainly change things for the future and, as the cliche lines go, for our children. Edited August 6, 2009 by Angelix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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