FE9 Tier list v3

[Dark Sage]

What do you think of Elincia going above Janaff?

Elincia may come late, but she has flying, canto, and auto A in staves. That's already a lot more than whatever the hell Janaff's doing in his chapters.

[RNG Princess]

Elincia + Rescue staff isn't such a bad idea for endgame either.

[Zkirsche]

Well, I haven't used Elincia much, but healing isn't so great when we have rhys/mist/any promoted sages, along with the already overpowered team that we sould have, and Janaff also flying but better combat utility to boot (even with gauge, we could at least throw the demi band on him or something).

[Anouleth]

Why bother? Janaff starts with 16 gauge, so he's transformed for the first ~5 turns, which is generally how long you should spend on the average chapter anyway.

But yeah, Janaff's 'combat utility' is a joke. 27 base attack. You want to cut that to 24?

Elincia has staff utility, and more importantly she does it while flying. She probably cuts a turn off Endgame all by herself just because of that.

[Zkirsche]

But yeah, Janaff's 'combat utility' is a joke. 27 base attack. You want to cut that to 24?

Better than Elincia's, at the very least.

She probably cuts a turn off Endgame all by herself just because of that.

ehh, Mist can rescue too, Reyson can vigor etcetera.

[Anouleth]

Better than Elincia's, at the very least.

So what? It's probably higher than Mist too, but we don't see Janaff>Mist because like Elincia, Mist offers something other than combat - staff utility.

ehh, Mist can rescue too, Reyson can vigor etcetera.

Mist doesn't Rescue as well as Elincia, who flies and has 1 more movement. Elincia can fly over the fountain walls, Rescue Ike, then get Vigored, then Rescue Ike again. Elincia is obviously the best choice for this.

Edited October 30, 2010 by Mr. Know-it-all-Anouleth

[-Cynthia-]

Elincia's healing is not terribly useful, because at the point of the game where she shows up our team is usually ridiculously durable due to supports. We shouldn't need more than one staff user, and Mist should have better stats/supports (or a trained Tormod). Rhys/Soren/Ilyana can mimic their utility with Physic staves.

Rescue!Elincia is a fair point, but I'm not sure she should be moved above decent combatants with good availability on this alone.

[Balcerzak]

Hard Mode endgame can be 3 turned without the need for Rescue. There may be some distinct advantages in Rescuing Reyson for added range in some earlier chapters, but I'm not sure exactly how much more use you're going to get out of Elincia doing is as opposed to Mist, as I don't remember any terrain issues in 26 or 27. 28 perhaps Elincia has some serious advantage, what with the large forest in the way, but honestly, I'm more impressed with Janaff's combat at this point.

[Shadow Mir]

Hard Mode endgame can be 3 turned without the need for Rescue. There may be some distinct advantages in Rescuing Reyson for added range in some earlier chapters, but I'm not sure exactly how much more use you're going to get out of Elincia doing is as opposed to Mist, as I don't remember any terrain issues in 26 or 27. 28 perhaps Elincia has some serious advantage, what with the large forest in the way, but honestly, I'm more impressed with Janaff's combat at this point.

Elincia's not available in chapter 28.

[Anouleth]

Elincia's healing is not terribly useful, because at the point of the game where she shows up our team is usually ridiculously durable due to supports. We shouldn't need more than one staff user, and Mist should have better stats/supports (or a trained Tormod). Rhys/Soren/Ilyana can mimic their utility with Physic staves.

How is our team suddenly ridiculously durable? There are many very good characters that we could be using that have durability issues, like Boyd, Sages or Marcia/Tanith. And that's assuming we play 'High Tier Only FE'.

And sure, maybe Mist would have better stats... if you play slowly. I had Mist at only level 10/6 going into chapter 25. Elincia had better stats than her.

Rescue!Elincia is a fair point, but I'm not sure she should be moved above decent combatants with good availability on this alone.

Since when is Janaff a decent combatant? Obviously, he's better at fighting than lolUlki

[Narga_Rocks]

And sure, maybe Mist would have better stats... if you play slowly. I had Mist at only level 10/6 going into chapter 25. Elincia had better stats than her.

Actually, you can't use that argument in fe9. bexp. Now, whether or not it's a good idea to dump bexp on her is obviously up for debate, but playing quickly does not make it impossible to have Mist at a better level. Additionally (about the italics), for all I know you could have abused Ward/Physic/Sleep/Silence on her more than you did to raise her level. Even without adding more bexp it might be easily possible to get her higher.

Edited October 31, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[-Cynthia-]

20/10 Boyd (B Tit B Mist) has 53 HP/16 Def/51 Avo. Avg Ch26 enemy has ~28 Atk, so that 5HKOs Boyd at around ~50 hit. Boyd will rarely need healing,

By C26, Marcia/Tanith should have a B with one another. 20/10 Marcia (B Tanith) has 37 HP/16 Def/74 Avo. She's getting close to 3HKOd, but also at around 30% hit. 30 display is 18.30% true, which leaves her less than a 1% chance of being 3HKOd. Tanith is probably even more durable since she can support Oscar.

Zihark is similarly durable with his +Avo supports, Gatrie/Brom have dying issues etc., so high durability is not a High tier phenomenon. True, Sages are not very durable, but non-Calill Sages can use staves themselves anyway. You should have plenty of Physics at this point, so having Soren/Ilyana/Tormod/Rhys heal the occasional wounded character should work. Healing isn't completely useless at this point in the game, but you should only have to heal rarely and Elincia is one of only 5 possible healers by this point.

[Narga_Rocks]

Two things:

In the case of Marcia, she's durable enough at full hp, yes. However, to maintain that durability you'll want to heal her every time she takes damage.

As for Soren/Ilyana/Tormod having C staves, I find that unlikely. I don't think you can Arms Scroll staves in fe9, and so they need 70 wexp. Assuming you aren't promoting and getting D staves by chapter 14, no Torch. So they only have heal and mend, both giving just 3 wexp. That's 24 heal/mend uses that are taking away from fighting. I suppose maybe if you completely drop Mist and Rhys and completely rely on them then maybe you can get one of them to C, but I have to wonder why you'd do that when Mist and Rhys are fully functional.

[Kaoz]

Two things:

In the case of Marcia, she's durable enough at full hp, yes. However, to maintain that durability you'll want to heal her every time she takes damage.

I dunno, most maps are pretty short, not sure whether you actually need to heal her all that much.

I agree that a C in staves for either of the Mages is unlikely though, so Mist and Rhys would be the prefered options.

[Anouleth]

Actually, you can't use that argument in fe9. bexp. Now, whether or not it's a good idea to dump bexp on her is obviously up for debate, but playing quickly does not make it impossible to have Mist at a better level. Additionally (about the italics), for all I know you could have abused Ward/Physic/Sleep/Silence on her more than you did to raise her level. Even without adding more bexp it might be easily possible to get her higher.

Actually, I did use BEXP on her to get her to a suitable level for promotion. I could have been all 'well, Mist needed BEXP to reach that level so Elincia is 'owed' some BEXP', but I'm also aware that I could have done more with staff abuse to raise her level, so I didn't mention it.

Oh, and staff rank on Sages is indeed hard to come by. I don't think that Tormod was at C even by the time Elincia appeared.

Edited November 3, 2010 by Mr. Know-it-all-Anouleth

[Shadow Mir]

20/10 Boyd (B Tit B Mist) has 53 HP/16 Def/51 Avo. Avg Ch26 enemy has ~28 Atk, so that 5HKOs Boyd at around ~50 hit. Boyd will rarely need healing,

By C26, Marcia/Tanith should have a B with one another. 20/10 Marcia (B Tanith) has 37 HP/16 Def/74 Avo. She's getting close to 3HKOd, but also at around 30% hit. 30 display is 18.30% true, which leaves her less than a 1% chance of being 3HKOd. Tanith is probably even more durable since she can support Oscar.

Zihark is similarly durable with his +Avo supports, Gatrie/Brom have dying issues etc., so high durability is not a High tier phenomenon. True, Sages are not very durable, but non-Calill Sages can use staves themselves anyway. You should have plenty of Physics at this point, so having Soren/Ilyana/Tormod/Rhys heal the occasional wounded character should work. Healing isn't completely useless at this point in the game, but you should only have to heal rarely and Elincia is one of only 5 possible healers by this point.

Soren, Ilyana and Tormod all have to grapple with E staves, and unless you have them forgo fighting entirely, they aren't hitting C rank any time soon. And even if you do, the chance of making it to C staves is still iffy...

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Soren, Ilyana and Tormod all have to grapple with E staves, and unless you have them forgo fighting entirely, they aren't hitting C rank any time soon. And even if you do, the chance of making it to C staves is still iffy...

No, it isn't. Heal staff is 3 WEx per use and to go from E to D is just 30 WEx which you get with just 10 Heal uses and from D to C is just 40 which is just another the same + 4 more heal uses or less if you have them use Torch which is 5 WEx. Early promoted Soren or Ilyana can get C rank around the time you get the first Physic staff from the desert and you're giving up is occasionally player phase and that's assuming they've got something to attack at that time with no other units left to deal with it since, EXP gained from staff use may be greater than kills.

Weapon rank in FE9 is among the easiest things to level up in the series.

Edited November 3, 2010 by Sirius

[Balcerzak]

Sirius, I gotta disagree, at least in part. Instantly promoted Tormod only hit C Staves sometime during Chapter 27 of my Hard Mode draft extension. Granted, I probably could have been healing more with him than I did, and certainly if you're taking chapters slower than an absolute breakneck he'll have more opportunities... But staff rank is and always has been a pain to build up from E, regardless of game.

Edit: There were 59 turns from start of Ch 16 to end of Ch 27. 15 of those turns were turn 1, which is often devoid of damage. The required 24 heals means he's staffing over one half of the time.

Edited November 3, 2010 by Balcerzak

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Sirius, I gotta disagree, at least in part. Instantly promoted Tormod only hit C Staves sometime during Chapter 27 of my Hard Mode draft extension. Granted, I probably could have been healing more with him than I did, and certainly if you're taking chapters slower than an absolute breakneck he'll have more opportunities... But staff rank is and always has been a pain to build up from E, regardless of game.

Edit: There were 59 turns from start of Ch 16 to end of Ch 27. 15 of those turns were turn 1, which is often devoid of damage. The required 24 heals means he's staffing over one half of the time.

Tormod was left un-bolded because I figured later chapters would go faster and with less injuries due to having a strong team then.

[-Cynthia-]

Keep in mind that in the situation presented, Soren/Ilyana/Tormod only need to reach C staves by C26 to mimic Elincia's staff performance. This is over 16 chapters for Soren/Ilyana, so they're obviously getting there unless they aren't healing at all. Tormod may be iffy on Physic, though he has more Mov so he needs it less anyway.

[Dark Sage]

Elincia also has things like Fortify and Sleep and Rescue available to her, something the other sages do not. She also has flying and Canto, making her the better healer.

Two arms scrolls on Elincia can make her a decent (though not stellar) candidate for the Sonic Sword.

Edited November 5, 2010 by Red Magister

[Anouleth]

Keep in mind that in the situation presented, Soren/Ilyana/Tormod only need to reach C staves by C26 to mimic Elincia's staff performance. This is over 16 chapters for Soren/Ilyana, so they're obviously getting there unless they aren't healing at all. Tormod may be iffy on Physic, though he has more Mov so he needs it less anyway.

Rescue. And keep in mind that all forms of wexp are hard to come by. Even playing slowly, you don't get an awful much, and so many chapters can be beaten in 3-5 turns if you feel like it.

Plus, it's not a matter if Elincia > Sages. This is Elincia against Janaff. Is being the second or third string healer better or worse than being Janaff?

Edited November 5, 2010 by Mr. Know-it-all-Anouleth

[Zkirsche]

Plus, it's not a matter if Elincia > Sages. This is Elincia against Janaff. Is being the second or third string healer better or worse than being Janaff?

Depends on how much you rank healing in comparison to fighting. Later on, fighting is more useful IMO.

[rigadoog]

Depends on how much you rank healing in comparison to fighting. Later on, fighting is more useful IMO.

And later on is when you get Elincia.

[General Spoon]

What was the reasoning behind Lethe going up again?