Hawk King Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 In any chapter where the objective isnt seize, Marcia can carry someone who isnt Ike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 theres only one chapter where you'd want to do that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Problem is that Gatrie isn't even the second or third best dude for the Boots. More like 20th or 30th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 That's a horrible way to look at it as it means that no item should be given to anyone who doesn't make outright optimal use of it. it is how an economist looks at anything, so deal w/ it imagine how terrible the converse would be, if you could just throw everything that you had on any arbitrary unit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Why not? This is an 'efficiency' tier so Ike not using the skill that he's best with is pretty inefficient. That is, unless, there is a unit around who somehow makes better use of it. Then, and only then, should he not get those skills. No, Snowy. This is where you're wrong. It's not "inefficient" which means that there is only one efficient way. It's just less efficient meaning that giving Ike the skills is optimal but not required. It would be great if you blocked up one of your ears since it seems that every lesson on logic that we give you goes in one ear and out the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliban of Sycorax Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 why would she carry anyone but Ike One carries Ike, the other carries the bosskiller. Unless the other IS the bosskiller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 The only time I had Marcia carry someone other than Ike was in chapter 11. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Sage Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 One carries Ike, the other carries the bosskiller. Unless the other IS the bosskiller. Why have Marcia carry a bosskiller when she can be the bosskiller? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliban of Sycorax Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 that's why I said that if they weren't bosskilling, they would carry the bosskiller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 When are they not boss killing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliban of Sycorax Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I don't fucking know but there are times they might not bosskill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I'd be willing to believe that if you gave examples Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethereal Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Those statements cannot both be true. If the boots go best on the fliers and the fact that they go best on the fliers means Gatrie getting them is a team negative, then they should always BE on the fliers because anything less in inefficient. Your entire post is just you being obtuse. This isn't the way opportunity cost works. People don't believe that any and all negatives must be avoided at all costs. Gatrie using the boots is a HUGE negative because he does so much worse than it than other units. Your entire post is just you being obtuse or misunderstanding and getting mad at others because of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ncknck Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Hi, nice list, i like it. Earlier versions were rather confusing to me, like Boyd>Marcia and ilyana>tormod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy_One Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Your entire post is just you being obtuse. This isn't the way opportunity cost works. People don't believe that any and all negatives must be avoided at all costs. Gatrie using the boots is a HUGE negative because he does so much worse than it than other units. Your entire post is just you being obtuse or misunderstanding and getting mad at others because of it. And your entire tier list is little more than elitist worship of fliers and obsession with LTC. It would be great if you blocked up one of your ears since it seems that every lesson on logic that we give you goes in one ear and out the other. Logic says that, while 3 > 2, both 2 and 3 are greater than 1 and all are better than 0. (Giving the boots to Marcica > Gatrie > Sothe > Not using them at all) Tier logic says that, since both 2 and 1 are less than 3, they are equal to 0. (Anyone not getting the boots who is not Marcia or a flier is a waste and shouldn't even be considered) it is how an economist looks at anything, so deal w/ it Losing the boots is a sunk cost on any unit. It doesn't matter if the boots go to Marcia or Sothe, Jill can't have them and if Jill gets them, Marcia can't have them. Have you even TAKEN a class on economics? Or even thumbed through a cartoon guide? imagine how terrible the converse would be, if you could just throw everything that you had on any arbitrary unit Well why not? Seriously, why not? If we threw everything we had onto a select few units we would get some super-strong units who could breeze through the game with ease. I'm fairly sure you could cut every non-Marcia/Ike/Titania unit, dump all the BEXP you could manage onto Ike/Marcia, then surge through the game while sending BEXP/items to Jill to get her up and running. That seems like a pretty efficient way to beat the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ncknck Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 i gave the boots to Reyson, if he reaches Marcia to refresh, that doubles her range. Im just a new player but so far liking the results. Also statistically speaking 5->7 is a 40% speed increase, while 9->11 is 22% so only half the effect. BootsMarcia must be awesome. However i feel that if she is able to operate 11 tiles from the party away solo she isnt in danger of dying anyway and two extra moves wouldnt significantly enhance her performance, speedruns not including. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momentai~ Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) Why is Tormod the highest rated sage? He joins 12 chapters later than Soren and 8 chapters later than Ilyana (well, maybe 7.5, since when Ilyana's recruited the chapter is half over anyways), with around the same bases. Calill joins 5 chapters later, but is an appropriate level with pretty good bases and weapon levels. Unfortunately she wields knives, so her overall usefulness is limited compared to stave sages. The fact that I almost forgot to include Bastian in this list says it all. xP I think it's safe to say Tormod's join time performance is the worst out of all the (potential) sages in middle tier. Tormod's celerity seems like it'd be more of a detriment than an asset for a while... Should he really be up at the front with the rest of your front liners meeting the enemies until after he promotes? When they're all promoted, Tormod has the edge because he has two more movement, but does it really make up for his performance when he first joins? Also, since he joins so much later than Soren and Ilyana, it's safe to say they'll promote quite a bit before him, but how many promotion chapters do they have on him? Maybe I should try boots Tormod with a long range magic tome. 10 move+ 10 range= attack from 20 spaces away lol. That'd be a pretty impressive physic range too. He could probably even double eventually (?) because he has pretty good strength. How many long range magics are there in FE9 anyways? I know Calill comes with one, but I don't recall any aside from that one. Edited September 12, 2012 by Momentai~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I agree that Tormod should be below Ilyana, Soren and Calill. His Celerity doesn't help him get any necessary extra kills at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Also statistically speaking 5->7 is a 40% speed increase, while 9->11 is 22% so only half the effect. That doesn't really mean anything, though. Giving a Dracoshield to a unit with low def increases that stat by a larger percentage than giving it to a unit with high def, but it's always better to give it to a unit with high def because the damage reduction compounds more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Cynthia- Posted September 12, 2012 Author Share Posted September 12, 2012 There's a Bolting in C16, Calill's Meteor, and a Blizzard in C23. That's it I think, unless you manage to steal one. Tormod's base stats can be fixed with BEXP, the other mages can't get more Mov except for using the Boots (not to get into more opportunity cost Boots shenanigans but we only have one and there are better choices out there). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 There's a Bolting in C16, Calill's Meteor, and a Blizzard in C23. That's it I think, unless you manage to steal one. Tormod's base stats can be fixed with BEXP, the other mages can't get more Mov except for using the Boots (not to get into more opportunity cost Boots shenanigans but we only have one and there are better choices out there). but clearly, in jushiro's tightly constrained world, there are no strategies that exist where tormod's celerity confers any advantage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ncknck Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 That doesn't really mean anything, though. Giving a Dracoshield to a unit with low def increases that stat by a larger percentage than giving it to a unit with high def, but it's always better to give it to a unit with high def because the damage reduction compounds more. m simply stating the benefit amount units with different move speed will receive from using the boots. Were we to have a unit with 100tile speed, it wouldnt benefit from the boots at all ( 2%), and reaching every tile on the map anyway. Same applies to defense really, but defense values fluctuate much more, so its good to have insurance againt hard hitters, while having overkill against weaklings. Im still giving Dracoshield to.. Soren though. It doesnt let him survive the hardhitters, but it does let him survive random flak damage, archers etc. Coupled with Ike's support avoid, he is pretty tanky actually. That and high def units have high def growth and if they max it, that dracoshield is waste, can happen with some bexp help, while it is unlikely Soren will ever max his defense value so it goes to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ncknck Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) As for Ilyana, i really tried, she is a cutie and all, but as much as i like short skirts and hate switching team members midgame she just had to go, cause she wasnt getting any cexp at all and was a drag. Maybe i havent tried hard enough. I think in 7 extra chapters she was there she just managed to be lvl12 and most of it were spoonfed kills and bexp. It was horrible. Tormod gains kills by himself. Maybe not in linear maps where he cant keep up with the awesomeness that is Marcia either. (like ch18) But in maps where there is a little stalling, he is more than capable to reach all the relevant targets, with Reyson's help is necessary. And he is quite cool actually, i was surprised. Def like him. Edited September 12, 2012 by ncknck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aku chi Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 There's a Bolting in C16, Calill's Meteor, and a Blizzard in C23. That's it I think, unless you manage to steal one. A Bolting is dropped in C22. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momentai~ Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) There's a Bolting in C16, Calill's Meteor, and a Blizzard in C23. That's it I think, unless you manage to steal one. Tormod's base stats can be fixed with BEXP, the other mages can't get more Mov except for using the Boots (not to get into more opportunity cost Boots shenanigans but we only have one and there are better choices out there). Oh ya, I do remember one time I had Ilyana dispatch that meteor mage in chapter 17 with bolting. I don't think I've ever used blizzard though lol. But can't the same be said of anyone? I don't really see the bexp thing as an advantage, since Soren and Ilyana have access to the bexp supply before Tormod is recruited, and Calill doesn't really need bexp to be productive. How much bexp would one need to invest to 'fix' his base stats? I don't think there's enough to allow him to blitz the enemy and survive any more enemy exposure than the other mages/sages can at that point in time (plus he'll still need other units to weaken the enemy so he can KO them), so he wont exactly be soaking up battle experience... After he promotes, you have an 8 move staff user (unless you accidentally select knives... does anyone pick knives on purpose?), so it's definitely a boon there. The problem is getting him to promotion so he can make better use of celerity, imo. I think the amount of babying he needs compared to the middle tier mages/sages he outranks outweighs the benefits of having an 8 move sage for the last few chapters of the game. Edited September 12, 2012 by Momentai~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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