A Questionable Archetype: The Shitty Bowman

[Big Klingy]

The gba games also seem to have a mini Archetype of prepromoted snipers who join with a silver bow and a white gem.

That would be the Jeorge archetype.

It's not just the GBA games, every FE except 2 and 5 has them.

Actually, I would say there's more basis for a Jeorge archtype than there is a Gordin one. That's because the 'Jeorge' characters have more things linking them than class. Namely:

-They all join relaively late

-They nearly always come with a Silver Bow

-They are almost always of royal/noble decent. (Jeorge is of Akanien nobility, Briggid is the successor of Jungby, Klein is the son of Pent, Louise is married to a Eutorian noble and Innes is the prince of Frelia. Actually, the only one who isn't of noble blood is Shinon)

For Gordin, other than "they're the first Archer you get" it basically boils down to "they're shitty" which is hightly debatable and mostly subjective. I suppose you could argue it on the basis that they're often one of the already established (or earliets joining) members of your main Lord's "group", but I think that's a little shakey. I'd probably say this and the Lena, Julian and Draug archtypes are basically just "the first member of X class you get" whereas the Jeorge archtype, as I've already stated, has other basis.

Edited October 20, 2009 by Big Klingy

[Ϲharlie]

Late response, but...

It counts. I mean, how many times has Boyd said things outside of his supports in PoR?

The point I was trying to make is that Darros is hardly loud or obnoxious in his recruitment conversation.

[Big Klingy]

I'm trying to explain that Ballista are more useful than Archers. You'll actually FIELD Snipers but Archers? If you had a choice, you really wouldn't.

I think people are forgetting that you need to train Archers to make them Snipers. (except in SD) Yeah, people wouldn't want to field Archers, but they have to if they want to field Snipers that aren't pre-premotes.

[Candlejack]

Thing is, there are either good pre-promoted bowmen (Like Shinon or Innes) or somebody that just replaces the class entirely (Shin or Castor).

[Treasure Chest]

I think this is a valid archtype. I've always assumed that my first archer is worthless and I've essentially always been right.

[Phoenix Wright]

Neimi, Wil, and Rolf don't suck. Well, I get RNG blessed with Rolf, but whatever.

Usually this is true though. Rebecca is only slightly better than Wil, because of SPD, AVD, and I think Luck.

Neimi is just badass after she gains ten levels. My most recent playthrough though, "begs to differ." She was level nineteen with fifteen STR (pretty damn good) and seven SPD.

Edited November 10, 2009 by Ben Stein

[Just call me AL]

Thing is, there are either good pre-promoted bowmen (Like Shinon or Innes) or somebody that just replaces the class entirely (Shin or Castor).

But there's also someone with a class that can replace archers, but just plainly and simply can't do the job of doing so. (Dayan, Rath and Sue all come to mind.)

[Paperblade]

Poor poor archers. If only they gave you the overkill skillsets like Jamka...

I'd settle for a weapon that basically has 40 mt and having the unit need just +1 AS in a game where enemies lose 18 AS from axes and various other items but Ichival user loses 3 and probably has a better speed stat anyway. I'm not entire sure Double Bow is actually better. 15 mt less, but 1 range and some of the units in that game that can wield it have 3 range.

He's a "Bow Fighter", though, so I'm not sure if Faval counts as a good "archer" before his promotion or not. He does promote to sniper, though, so that's like archers in other games.

God, the holy weapons was one of the dumbest aspects of that game. Most of the time he didn't even need that, since he starts with a silver bow. The Ichival was more just like "Well this part of the arena is hard and I can't murdinate bosses with normal silver...", then pull out Ichival. Then there's Ares, who's like "I'm the only guy who can kill whoever's packing Thor Hammer in one turn", or Shanan who's like the god mode cheat. The game is pretty much over if Arthur gets Holsety and the Pursuit Ring, especially once he gets his damn horse. Oh well, at least it gives you bosses that actually challenge these beasts. Unlike FE10 where they just hand you god mode units at every turn.

Also, that has to be the most bullshit loophole to the idea I've ever heard.

I understood your first paragraph. Loophole? Wha? And what idea?

I dunno if he means loophole, really, but from what I understand he means "Oh let's not bother to beta test the game to see if it's too hard and give the player clearly broken characters just in case it is"

[dondon151]

Loophole refers to the fact that bow fighters don't count as archers because they're called bow fighters.

[CATS]

Neimi, Wil, and Rolf don't suck. Well, I get RNG blessed with Rolf, but whatever.

Usually this is true though. Rebecca is only slightly better than Wil, because of SPD, AVD, and I think Luck.

Neimi is just badass after she gains ten levels. My most recent playthrough though, "begs to differ." She was level nineteen with fifteen STR (pretty damn good) and seven SPD.

Neimi, Wil and Rolf don't suck? Since when?

I'd say shitty early joining bow user is pretty consistent. Wolt, Wil (or Rebecca, they're both ranked on the lower end of the list), Neimi, Gordin. They're not always members of the main lord's group, though (Wil, Rebecca if you take Hector route, Neimi).

Edited November 12, 2009 by CATS

[CT075]

The gba games also seem to have a mini Archetype of prepromoted snipers who join with a silver bow and a white gem.

That would be the Jeorge archetype.

It's not just the GBA games, every FE except 2 and 5 has them.

Actually, I would say there's more basis for a Jeorge archtype than there is a Gordin one. That's because the 'Jeorge' characters have more things linking them than class. Namely:

-They all join relaively late

-They nearly always come with a Silver Bow

-They are almost always of royal/noble decent. (Jeorge is of Akanien nobility, Briggid is the successor of Jungby, Klein is the son of Pent, Louise is married to a Eutorian noble and Innes is the prince of Frelia. Actually, the only one who isn't of noble blood is Shinon)

For Gordin, other than "they're the first Archer you get" it basically boils down to "they're shitty" which is hightly debatable and mostly subjective. I suppose you could argue it on the basis that they're often one of the already established (or earliets joining) members of your main Lord's "group", but I think that's a little shakey. I'd probably say this and the Lena, Julian and Draug archtypes are basically just "the first member of X class you get" whereas the Jeorge archtype, as I've already stated, has other basis.

*shakes fist*

At any rate, I think this is valid. Although the Archetype would probably be better off as an Archer that looks up to another bow unit, usually a Sniper (Exception being Ryan, who looks up to Gordin)

[Just call me AL]

The Archetype would probably be better off as an Archer that looks up to another bow unit, usually a Sniper (Exception being Ryan, who looks up to Gordin)

Would Neimi and Walt be exceptions to this then? (And IIRC, I don't remember Gordin even interacting with Jeorge in FEDS. I don't know about FE3 book 2 though.)

Honestly, the only archers in the Gordin archetype I can think of that look up to other archers in your group are Rebecca and Rolf, albeit in different ways. If that was the basis of the Gordin archetype, then no one else should even be counted.

[CT075]

The Archetype would probably be better off as an Archer that looks up to another bow unit, usually a Sniper (Exception being Ryan, who looks up to Gordin)

Would Neimi and Walt be exceptions to this then? (And IIRC, I don't remember Gordin even interacting with Jeorge in FEDS. I don't know about FE3 book 2 though.)

Honestly, the only archers in the Gordin archetype I can think of that look up to other archers in your group are Rebecca and Rolf, albeit in different ways. If that was the basis of the Gordin archetype, then no one else should even be counted.

FE1/3/11: Gordin

FE3 Book 2: Ryan, Gordin

FE5: Tanya?

FE7: Rebecca

FE9: Rolf

FE10: Rolf

[Allan's Aokage]

-edit- I'm a moron who should read the full page more often.

Can I ask if a moderator could delete this, as I have no access to the full editor?

Edited November 15, 2009 by Allan's Aokage

[BEST TRYNDAMERE PLAYER]

Ronan is underrated, give him a Baldo scroll and a Hezul scroll and he'll have a reasonable str growth. I also like to consider him a pretty good anti-mage if given the chance with his 50% mag growth.

[Pixels]

I REALLY disagree with that list,

you don't really get enough Archers to COUNT it as an Archetype... and Leonardo is good, and Rolf is better than Shinon in FE9 by a LOT (not in FE10 though)

[Rodykitty]

(And IIRC, I don't remember Gordin even interacting with Jeorge in FEDS. I don't know about FE3 book 2 though.)

You need Gordon to recruit George in Book 2.

[Naglfar]

I hesitate to say that they're all horrible... but the Gordon archetype has existed forever, you know.

If there are good ones you want to separate them from the crappy ones, you could do that. Remember Oifayes, the salvageable counterparts to Jeigans?