Shouzou Kaga leaving, good, bad, or neither

[Mousefire]

He made the series, but he left after Thracia. Do you think the series became better, worse, or stayed about the same after that?

I can't really decide.

and If you're going to vote, be sure to have played at least 2 of the games made under him

[Icon of Sin]

I view Tear Ring Saga much better than I view the GBA FEs since I know there was a lot of potential with it. Of course, it was easy and abuseable, but take those out of the game and you have a lot of gameplay elements that FE should take note if it didn't already.

[Hero]

Certain aspects of the series certainly improved a lot after Thracia 776, but I think that the improvement could have been all-round if Shouzou Kaga had stayed at the helm.

FE6 and FE7 were pretty conservative design-wise, and a big part of that I think is because IS was afraid of being too ambitious while working on a new system and without the help of many of the big names behind the earlier series, Kaga not least. Because of that I'd say that his leaving was a setback and voted "it got worse", even though I think FE6 and its successors are fine games, better even than some of Kaga's work!

Edited January 27, 2010 by Hero

[Momo]

The games are just a different flavor from the first 5. I can't really view them as being better or worse.

[Aquilae]

The games were certainly better from a balance and gameplay standpoint. With Shozou Kaga at the helm, I don't think balance is one of their priorities. TearRing Saga's unique mechanics had a lot of potential, but they were too easily abusable and the game too easy as a result. The later FEs may be less interesting but they did offer better gameplay and character development (to some extent), and given the earlier FEs and TRS, I can't see Shozou Kaga matching the level of challenge and balance the later FEs had.

[VincentASM]

I don't think its fair to consider TRS as Kaga's only game after FE5. In his blog (if it does belong to him), he mentions how he was focusing on the story and didn't give as much attention to the gameplay.

However, this was rectified in TRS's "sequel" Berwick Saga. I've only played half of it, but it's much more balanced than TRS and less abusable. I've also heard from people who've played it all the way that it's an exceptional game. I think somebody (burning_phoenix from FESS?) mentioned how it's much easier the second time round, but I can't remember if that impacted their overall judgement of the game.

Edited January 27, 2010 by VincentASM

[Original Alear]

I voted "it stayed about the same" but that's really because I think the good is roughly equivalent to the bad in the before and after (I think some things are better and some things are worse). That's about the most specific I can get.

I never played FE1 or 2.

[Ike-Mike]

FE6 and FE7 were pretty conservative design-wise

Indeed.

What I like about Kaga's FEs is that each FE added something new to the mix and every change felt like very natural expansions to the overall gameplay structure. The same can be said about TRS too.

Meanwhile the FEs after that either reused these additions or the new and original additions don't really 'stick' to the gameplay structure as well.

So yeah, I voted "It got worse" because of the above reason and because the later FEs just didn't make as much of an impact as the SNES ones did.

Edited January 27, 2010 by Ike-Mike

[BrightBow]

In terms of design I really must say that I liked the games with Shouzou Kaga better. The atmosphere on the SNES games was just amazing. In FE4 with all the enemy armies moving in formation and the seizing of castles as well as defending them right away from counterattacks and the superweapons (except Holsety, for gamebreaking reasons) really gave me the feel of an epic struggle deciding the fate of the entire world. And FE5 felt really, really tense. I got hocked from the moment the player phase music in chapter 5 played. For once the music really made you feel close to the action unlike the flowerfield music in most other games which while good compositions, never gave you a feeling of a immediate treat and the possibility of death on every turn but in Thracia the music really tells you how the situation looks. And in the chapters after 5 you where on the run most of the time, trying to break through the enemies and avoiding to get overpowered from the enemies all around you, this proved to be a really good thing. Not to mention that the gameplay also shined here. Escape missions actually meant something here (Not to mention how more satisfying it was, once you got the opportunity to counterattack in later chapters. I love this "We are back, bitches!" feeling.) Either way, when they returned in PoR they weren't different then the usual "size the throne" maps since the enemies deployed, where completely unable to overpower you, so why bother changing your strategies? Not to mention that it also killed all the tension a chasing scenario might have created.

What I don't like in FE during kaga's time were the main Lords. They pretty much had all the same personality. They definitely became more interesting after Roy. Also there are the gloomy dark girls which usually end up in a main character role. (Chiki, Yuria, Sara, Idoun, Ninian, Myrh, Micaiah) The difference here is that they are still used. It's not like it's a bad kind of character but they are just soo overused on the series. However I do like the variations they putted into these characters namely Idoun and Micaiah.

I also feel the world of FE6 is a bit underrated. Sure Roy is kinda like Marth, we have a similar Dragon war in the past like in the first game, the Pegasus Knights were like them, Diek is Ogma's twin brother etc... but this doesn't make it a bad design, considering that it probably was supposed to look familiar. They probably did use the same kind of "opera-commercial" as the first game for a reason. It was supposed to feel familiar. Kinda like the Megaman 9 and 10 Box art. But here it just served as aset up to really flip you of once general Fire Emblem rules became reversed. Somebody who played the previous games was probably quite surprised to see that Shamans were suddenly using dark magic, as a non-spoiler example. However I still think that it was kind of a halfhearted attempt. They could have used it as some kind of backstory for the Dragons of Akaneia or something like that. And they never explained the origin of the Sword of Seals which was quite a let down. If you don't want to explain something, don't bring it up in the first place. But it did have the best feature of any Fire Emblem game. You could use it to skip the tutorial part of FE7.

The next 2 games were nothing special. However FE7 did a good job at teaching you in around 10 chapters everything you could have learned in around 10 minutes of game play. Thx for wasting my time there IS. They also did the same thing with the Nintendo Wars series when they brought the series past the pacific under the name Advance Wars. (Seriously, who needs separate missions to figure out how to produce planes, ships and land-units?) A Tactician was also included. Good thing both series dropped that guy. Who thought tutorials in this form were a good idea anyway? If I pick up a game I want to play it, and not to limit myself to pressing certain buttons when the game tells me, for several hours, only motivated by the shallow hope that I might eventually be allowed to play and have fun. If the tutorials would have included information about the relationship between attack speed, weapon weight and build, it would have been actually worth the time, but it doesn't even tell you which requirements are need to be meet in order to double attack. It really doesn't tell you anything you wouldn't figure out by yourself.

FE8 was nothing special. I like the Lords though.

FE9 is my favorite game in the series for a reason. The game had a similar tense atmosphere as Thracia 776 except Ike is a somewhat more interesting Hero then Leaf and during the first few chapters all of the playable characters got some screen time and interacted with each other made which it easier to see the Greil Mercenaries as a whole for the rest of the game. Info conversations also helped that matter. There were way more boss conversations then in the other games and this time every boss responded to the main character. The game was also quite skilled with leaving open the possibilities of a sequel as well as possible plot points without making it a cliff hanger or leaving some kind of dissatisfaction for winning the game. The only thing which killed the atmosphere for me was the voice acting. Not generally though, the voices are all cheesy, sure. However since English is not my main language, I have a hard time to spot such things. However something that can't be overseen is the Black Knight's voice. Why would he sound like Darth Vader?! He is a normal human with a garbage can on his head. He is not a freaking demon. And the name change from Dark Knight to Black Knight was bad, since he is in a army where every soldier wears black armor. While would soldiers used to wear black armor and with pride to the nation represented by those colors nickname an mysterious, creepy dude ,like the Burger King, as the "Black Knight"? It doesn't make any sense. Oh well, I blame Batman. And good job at using 2 names which were already used in Sacred stones, namely Mia and Titania. Like the BK example this is a issue that only popped up during the localization. While I'd personally rather have a name like Tiamat or Wayu then having the same name twice, I don't get why they didn't simply use a name they hadn't used already.

This is of course mostly nitpicking but this is because the game has otherwise little to complain about. IS really showed here that they can create a awesome world and a awesome game without Kaga.

Everything working well + great atmosphere = my favorite Fire Emblem.

About Radiant Dawn, it seems like every time I talk about this game it ends in a rant longer then this post so I will limit myself to say that I don't get how you can screw up balancing like that.

And FE11 was just a remake of FE1 but I think think they really did a good job with it. It brought a lot of new features to the old game, but the cool thing about them is that they are optional so you can still play the game similar then in the original game. You want to use brave weapons? They weren't in the game back then, but hey, you can have them anyway. You want Falcon Knights? No problem, but by default Pegasus will promote to Dragon Knights. You don't like class swapping? Then don't use it. It's not needed. And if you use those things and are afraid they make the game to easy, check out our 5 new flavors of hard mode. I also like how they recreated the dark atmosphere of the original. Wait thats wrong. The original game tried to make the game look dark, but didn't really pulled it off and neither did the SNES version remake. The DS version really is the only one that in my eyes that really managed to have Akaneia look dark in a way that feels natural. But then again, I made simply have been to annoyed by the controls of FE3 to really catch the atmosphere. And most importantly, it improved the controls to the point were I could actually play the game and have fun with it. This makes it better for me then FE1 and FE3 by default. Either way this game is a remake in the best meaning of the word.

In conclusion, I really like most Fire Emblems after Kage's time but in the end I'd rather spend my time in Akaneia and Jugdral then in Elibe, Magvell and even Tellius and those are the worlds that were created by him. Sure the later games played better but those things would likely not have been affected by Kage's work anyway, so I can't really use that against him. So Shouzou Kaga leaving made the series become less better then it would have become otherwise. But since that option isn't available I will choose: "It became worse".

Edit: Several fixes. However of special note is that I replaced the "didn't" with a "did" in the opera-commercial line.

Edited January 27, 2010 by BrightBow-User

[Original Alear]

Meanwhile the FEs after that either reused these additions or the new and original additions don't really 'stick' to the gameplay structure as well.

I do think that the support system of FE6-9 was expanded to give a lot more characterization to characters who would have had little or no dialogue in a game like Fire Emblem 4. Additionally, the support system seems to be something that people pay a lot of attention to - I know that it did exist in more rudimentary forms in earlier FEs, but it seems like even when it was brought back in FE9 and 10 (bond supports) it was a fairly insignificant thing compared to affinity-based supports.

Additionally, I think the laguz were a pretty interesting class addition.

They probably didn't use the same kind of "opera-commercial" as the first game for a reason.

What are you talking about? They did use an opera commercial for Fuuin, in fact Fuuin and FE1 are the only two I've seen opera commercials for. I mean fuck, they even had the horse neigh at the same time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAJhN5n9nBE

Shamans were suddenly using dark magic

Is the japanese word for dark magic users in FE6 the same as the word for the diadora and julia class in FE4?

They also did the same thing with the Nintendo Wars series when they brought the series past the pacific under the name Advance Wars. (Seriously, who needs separate missions to figure out how to produce planes, ships and land-units?)

They didn't have a tutorial mission for building planes and ships. They taught you how to use bases, and then in the "extra" tutorial mission (1 turn long) they showed you that airports and ports existed (but didn't go over them in detail).

I do agree that FE7 and AW tutorials were teh suck though.

And good job at using 2 names which were already used in Sacred stones, namely Mia and Titania.

Which characters in sacred stones were named Mia and Titania? (or tiamat and wayu?)

[VincentASM]

Is the japanese word for dark magic users in FE6 the same as the word for the diadora and julia class in FE4?

Yeah, and it's also the same as the Light Priestess class in FE10.

Which characters in sacred stones were named Mia and Titania? (or tiamat and wayu?)

I think it's Kyle's sister and Vanessa's pegasus. They're really minor references.

[BrightBow]

What are you talking about? They did use an opera commercial for Fuuin, in fact Fuuin and FE1 are the only two I've seen opera commercials for. I mean fuck, they even had the horse neigh at the same time.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=BAJhN5n9nBE

I accidentally wrote didn't instead of did. I wanted to point out that both games used a similar commercial and are the only ones I know who did that, In order to support me saying that the similarities between the original and FE6 were indeed intended. I'm going to swap out the 2 words then.

Is the japanese word for dark magic users in FE6 the same as the word for the diadora and julia class in FE4?

What Vincent said. However while I didn't checked myself. However I was sure about it because the orginal name of the "Nosferatu" spell was "Rezire" the same name as the life-sabbing light-magic spell from FE4. I thought that this was a bit too much of a coincidence to consider that the words might be different after all.

Which characters in sacred stones were named Mia and Titania? (or tiamat and wayu?)

What Vincent said. However I do admit that nitpicking ain't even too big of a word to complain that little lack of imagination of the guys doing the localizations and it probably wasn't intentional anyway, given that both names are quite common. It just was something that got in my head while writing my post and did in fact not deserve any mention.

Also, Tiamat = Titania, Wayu = Mia

Edit: Completely rewrote my response to the first quote. And I accidentally posted my own quote which is now fixed.

Edited January 27, 2010 by BrightBow-User