Best GBA warrior

[El Rey León]

All GBA Fighters suck so Geitz wins by default since we never see him as a crappy Fighter. HM bonuses don't hurt either.

And for some reason I imagine him speaking with a Liverpool accent. Don't know why.

[Ansem]

Personal Experience means nothing, especially in Hector Hard Mode where he will suffer too much with his speed problems, keep in mind he gains no Speed bonus upon promotion, Geitz will also bear +3 Spd at his joining level.

And Geitz's B rank in bows comes in handy for a Brave Bow, Steel Bow or Killer Bow for taking out wyern lords with ease.

Your right it doesnt

I never mentioned my experience though

I was also gonna change my vote to Ross

So now i will average them out

Ross lv 20

HP:55

STR:25

SKL:22

SPD:20

LCK:24

DEF:17

RES:14

Now lets average Geitz

Gietz lv 20

HP:54

STR:25

SKL:17

SPD:19

LCK:16

DEF:14

RES:6

The thing with prepromotes is they seem good but their growth rate sucks

Mediocre stats dont help

You my friend probably dont like spending the time training weaker units

We have the arena for that

[Just call me AL]

You don't know much about either ranked or efficient gameplay, do you Vivek?

Edited February 1, 2010 by LittleAl

[Bryan]

I just gave Ross a little more love. :)

[Gergeshwan]

A raw statistical comparison means nothing. The biggest problem is that people don't reach max level anyway in a reasonably efficient runthrough, and spending a bunch of turns in the Arena/Tower is an invalid method of comparison because it benefits everyone. Anyone can use the arena and become overpowered to the point that stats hardly matter anymore. You have to consider how useful Ross is throughout the game (not very, but he could be worse) compared to Geitz (great from the moment you get him). There are also enemy stats, supports, and other factors to consider when comparing units. This especially applies to enemy stats, which are different because you are comparing characters from different games.

[Ansem]

You don't know much about either ranked or efficient gameplay, do you Vivek?

I just train my units that are not promoted and bench the prepromotes

No matter how "good" they are

There will always be a better unit

Not Jaffar cause he is broken

[Inui]

@ BlazingSwordsman. I thought your species died out already, but I see they are alive and well at places besides FEFF...

Jaffar is good to you, but the other prepromoted units aren't? Are you aware that Jaffar is typically rated in the lowest or second lowest tier? Even Marcus, who has the worst stats, is crushing him terribly in durability and only losing offense against units he can't double that Jaffar can (not many) and often Marcus's one hit will do more than his two (Slayers/Silvers).

Geitz is amazing right when you get him and he never gets bad. His growths aren't mediocre at all. I believe he has an 80% in HP, 50% in Str, and 40% in Spd. Pretty good.

Harken is the one with horrible growths, but his level 8 Hero base stats are insane. He's already beating Raven's 20/20 Def, Luk, and Res, IIRC. He's nearly capped in Str.

Pent's 20/6 bases vastly exceed Erk's 20/6 stats and Pent actually ends up winning in several stats even at the end, most notably Skl and Def and a small win in Mag.

Edited February 2, 2010 by Inui

[Junkhead]

Your right it doesnt

I never mentioned my experience though

I was also gonna change my vote to Ross

So now i will average them out

Ross lv 20

HP:55

STR:25

SKL:22

SPD:20

LCK:24

DEF:17

RES:14

Now lets average Geitz

Gietz lv 20

HP:54

STR:25

SKL:17

SPD:19

LCK:16

DEF:14

RES:6

The thing with prepromotes is they seem good but their growth rate sucks

Mediocre stats dont help

You my friend probably dont like spending the time training weaker units

We have the arena for that

Right, you weren't. But you WERE saying Bartre ends up better, in this case, it's Ross, the thing is it doesn't matter which one ends up better because you use that criteria when it comes to Nino, and with that same criteria, the three trainees would be top tiers, yet, they aren't, to get to top tier, that unit has to be actually useful, and not getting 2RKO'd (i.e Ross) doesn't make you useful.

I just train my units that are not promoted and bench the prepromotes

No matter how "good" they are

There will always be a better unit

Not Jaffar cause he is broken

Being promoted doesn't mean your growths will be crappy, Geitz has similiar growths to Bartre, lower and high in some spots.

Jaffar is not "broken", he only gets to be that way if you equip him a Kiling Edge, otherwise his critical won't be so high and he won't be activating Silencer so often.

Edited February 2, 2010 by Alan Rainsworth

[CATS]

Bartre imo.

FE6 fighters can't hit, and Ward is slow anyways. Insta-fail. I would say FE6 Bartre might have a case, but then I realized the flaw in that argument. Regardless I'm referring to FE7 Bartre.

What is this crap about Geitz? I heard someone mention supports? Supports that he won't have because he joins late. Who would he support anyways? Dorcas goes with Oswin and Bartre, there is no room for Geitz here. Dart is mediocre and costs a million dollars to use. Karel joins even later and kills Harken. The Fiora support takes a century to hit A. Isadora is the only remotely viable option, but it's not fast and starts over halfway through the game. They'll be lucky to get more than a C, and the C bonuses are shitty. +5 Avo is all there is to care about, it doesn't even give any Def or Atk.

Bartre on the other hand is ballin along with a rape Dorcas support and a solid Canas support, and all 3 of them have good affinities, arguably the game's 3 best. Anima, Fire, Thunder. Indeed Bartre has one of the strongest support situations in FE7.

Base Geitz: 19 Str, 6 Crit, 14 Spd, 13 Con----44 Hp, 12 Def, 4 Res, 38 Avo

20/1 Bartre, A Dorcas, B Canas: 21 Str, 26 Crit, 10.2 Spd, 15 Con----47.3 Hp, 15.4 Def, 10.5 Res, 54.8 Avo

Geitz has more Spd. Awesome. He loses at everything else. He only wins offense against enemies where the Spd gap matters, whereas Bartre wins offense against enemies that either both double or neither double, and rapes Geitz on defense in general. I don't see why everyone thinks Geitz is so good.

The FE8 Warriors are similar I guess. Ross is worse for sure with his shitty start. Garcia might have a case, but as has already been pointed out, he's worse relative to his team. Notably, the % of enemies that are promoted in FE8 lategame is much higher than in FE7, and in FE7 Bartre can rape those crappy unpromoted enemies the same as anyone else. Garcia's bad Spd is made more notable by the fact that he's facing a smaller % of failure enemies against which low Spd doesn't matter.

[Inui]

Bartre is better than Dorcas?

[Junkhead]

No, he isn't.

[CATS]

Apparently Geitz > Dorcas, since I saw a lot of nods to Geitz for best, but almost none for Dorcas, so I figured I'd nail Dorcas as well by association. But.....

Bartre has higher Str and Def right from the start. Dorcas's only important win is Spd, but it takes a long time for Dorcas to double anything besides loldiers/knights or other horribly slow enemies, alot of which Bartre can get too after a few levels. Meanwhile, later in the game Bartre has higher Spd, making him better at doubling during a time when both will have a better shot at doubling enemies in general.

I'm sure someone will point out "but Bartre gets doubled by Brigands in the chapter he joins!" In reality most of the Ch 12 Brigands have 6 AS, there is only one L3 Brigand who may or may not have 7 AS, and Bartre is out of doubling range of almost all Brigands after his first few levels. Ch 13x is the only chapter where getting doubled is a serious problem for Bartre, since it's the only one during earlygame to feature a large number of sword enemies and Nomads which are difficult to avoid (Pirate Ship has alot of swordies but Bartre just goes to the left side and doesn't care). Meanwhile everyone forgets that Bartre is better than Dorcas at not getting doubled by NTs, Heroes and Valks later in the game.

And again, Bartre maintains better Str and Def throughout the game. I guess Dorcas can have a cookie because his Oswin support starts earlier than Bartre's Canas support, but at the same time Oswin has low move and Dorcas isn't a priority support for him, whereas Bartre is Canas's only option, so meh. Bartre's affinity is better than Dorcas's too. Def > Atk on units that 2HKO normally or OHKO on a crit almost always.

Also, this is assuming pure HHM. If you tack LHM on, then Dorcas now has a case because of big initial level and such, but imo then it's no longer a run and evaluation of the game's hardest mode and greatest challenge. You added on the easiest mode out of any GBA FE and it bolsters your performance when you get to the actual hard part. Either way though, it's not Geitz.

[Inui]

I'd assume LHM is played. It takes about 30 minutes and makes Lyn usable and makes Kent and Sain good. Otherwise they are not good at all. It's part of the game, brah.

Dorcas is better than Bartre in that case, and I'd still give the nod to Geitz due to Atk Spd and not needing a promotional item.

[Candlejack]

:/

I'm disappointed CATS.

@Vivek:

The case is usually that bases are more important than growths. If not, then why are units such as Pent, Percival, FE7 Marcus, Echidna, Harken, Duessel, Seth, Dagda, Rutgar, Dieck, Sigurd, Oifey, Sirius, Gandalf the Grey, Gandalf the White, Monty Python and the Holy Grail's Black Knight, Volug, Janaff, Arum, and Altenna are rated highly?

And then look at characters like Est, Corpul, Nino, Sofiya, Zeiss, L'arachel, Miranda, Sara, Patty, and Cath.

[CATS]

"It's part of the game" is a self-contradictory argument. Why is LHM recognized as viable, but not ENM, EHM or HNM? Especially when LHM is easier than any of those 3 modes, and HHM is apparently singled out because it's the hardest. Playing a stupid easy mode that makes HHM easier (when it is chosen because it is hard) does not make sense to me.

Either way, I showed Bartre > Geitz, so even if Dorcas > Bartre, Geitz isn't the clear winner. Promo items are no issue. You get 3 Hero Crests and an Earth Seal by the time Geitz joins.

I'm disappointed CATS.

I guess you are not able to explain why.

Edited February 2, 2010 by CATS

[Junkhead]

I'd assume LHM is played. It takes about 30 minutes and makes Lyn usable and makes Kent and Sain good. Otherwise they are not good at all. It's part of the game, brah.

Dorcas is better than Bartre in that case, and I'd still give the nod to Geitz due to Atk Spd and not needing a promotional item.

I like your reasoning, because it's actual reasoning. Some just don't include it, but really, Lyn's mode SHOULD be included.

[Inui]

HHM is singled out due to it having more content, CATS. It has 5 additional chapters and 2 additional units. Why bother playing less of a game?

I don't see how you proved that Bartre is better than Geitz. You proved he's better if you're fielding three Warriors, but why would we do that when there's already so many awesome axe users around (Paladins/Hawkeye) and Harken is going to join soon?

Bartre has to go through a period of fail and consumes a promotional item. Geitz does not.

Oh, and starting with a B in bows is hot.

[Candlejack]

"It's part of the game" is a self-contradictory argument. Why is LHM recognized as viable, but not ENM, EHM or HNM? Especially when LHM is easier than any of those 3 modes, and HHM is apparently singled out because it's the hardest. Playing a stupid easy mode that makes HHM easier (when it is chosen because it is hard) does not make sense to me.

Either way, I showed Bartre > Geitz, so even if Dorcas > Bartre, Geitz isn't the clear winner. Promo items are no issue. You get 3 Hero Crests and an Earth Seal by the time Geitz joins.

I guess you are not able to explain why.

For Bartre, it most certainly IS an issue. Wait, nvm, you are going for FE6 Bartre.

Well, one of Bartre's bad points is that he negates getting Echidna and the slightly better dancer, who are considered to be some of the best characters in the game.

Who does Geitz negate? lolWallace and a slightly easier boss to fight in his joining chapter.

Not to mention nobody is going to want to support Bartre except maybe Fir but that STILL doesn't solve his HIT problems throughout the game. Base 11 SKL one less than Dieck's base SKL. Yeah, pretty much every single one of his base stats except HP and STR are going to suck by EPIC proportions. 10 SPD is just lol and 10 DEF is just godawful. AND GUESS WHAT? Nearly every single problem stat he has is going to have lol20% except SPD, which is meh30%.

It's nice that he has A axes; if only he could actually HIT SHIT WITH THEM; you know, since this is one of the few FE games where enemies aren't a complete joke? At least Geitz isn't eating enemy cock with a B rank in bows while actually keeping a goddamn defensive game. And while we're on supports, it'd be safe to say that Geitz is safely securing a Dorcas support, giving him an ACC bonus as well as +5 AVO on a C, since Dorcas only has lolFE7 Bartre, Osw1n, lolVaida, and lolFarina. So at worst, Geitz is definitely getting at least a B with Dorcas which will still warrant a nice HIT boost.

Edited February 2, 2010 by Merlinus the Jew

[Junkhead]

HHM is singled out due to it having more content, CATS. It has 5 additional chapters and 2 additional units. Why bother playing less of a game?

I don't see how you proved that Bartre is better than Geitz. You proved he's better if you're fielding three Warriors, but why would we do that when there's already so many awesome axe users around (Paladins/Hawkeye) and Harken is going to join soon?

Bartre has to go through a period of fail and consumes a promotional item. Geitz does not.

Oh, and starting with a B in bows is hot.

Again, I love your reasoning...not to mention one of those axe users is Raven, who is one to most likely use the Hero Crest rather than Bartre who is doing alot worst and getting doubled by many enemies.

[Tangerine]

I like it when people randomly capitalize words in their sentences. Makes me believe them more imo.

[CATS]

So you can explain the fact that HNM is ignored with that reasoning?

Three Warriors? No one said Geitz is getting used at the same time as Dorcas and Bartre. I'd do the opposite myself. The number of axe users available to you is irrelevant to anything. By this logic Eliwood sucks cause you already have alot of sword users.

Bartre is bad in one chapter during the earlygame, 13x. He's not bad in any others. With his Str + the Mt of Axes, has high Atk and concrete defenses during a time where most units are unable to consistently double or dodge, thus devaluing his weaker stats (AS/Avo). At base: +7 Atk/+11 Hp/-1 Def against Eliwood, +3 Atk/+6 Hp/-3 Def against Lowen, +2 Atk/+10 Hp/-4 Def against Hector, +2 Atk/-1 Hp/+1 Def against Dorcas, raep against Rebecca.

In Ch 14, comparing a L6 Bartre against a L6 Eliwood.

Bartre: 11 Str, 4.6 Spd----32.4 Hp, 5.2 Def

Eliwood C Hector: 7.25 Str, 9 Spd----22 Hp, 7.5 Def

Iron Bow Archer: 13 Atk, 6 AS----23 Hp, 4 Def

Neither one doubles. Bartre's Hand Axe 2HKOs it w/ the ability to counter, Eliwood's Steel Sword 3HKOs. Bartre is 4-5HKO'd. Eliwood is 4HKO'd.

Iron Lance Cavalier: 14 Atk, 7 AS----25 Hp, 8 Def

Neither one doubles. Bartre's Iron Axe 3HKOs it, or the Hand Axe can 3HKO from range, while Eliwood's Rapier is a 3HKO. Bartre is 4-5HKO'd, Eliwood is 3HKO'd.

Iron Lance Knight: 15 Atk, 0 AS----20 Hp, 11 Def

Both double. Bartre's Iron Axe does almost exactly the same damage as Eliwood's Rapier, and both reduce it to under 5 Hp, but Bartre as usual has the option to hit it from range with the Hand Axe and do essentially the same thing, while Eliwood does not. Bartre is 4HKO'd, Eliwood is 3HKO'd.

Iron Lance loldier: 13 Atk, 0 AS----25 Hp, 1 Def

Both double. Bartre's Hand Axe one-rounds from range. Eliwood must attack at melee range with the Steel Sword in order to one-round. Bartre is 5HKO'd, Eliwood is 4HKO'd.

You might criticize me for focusing on lance enemies, but, that's the way that the game is. Lance enemies are significantly more common than sword or axe enemies. The only chapter I can think of before Geitz's jointime with a significantly larger number of sword or axe enemies than lances (besides the aforementioned 13x), is Pirate Ship, which still has an entire side of nothing but Shamans and Pegs where Bartre can rape (and indeed does better than Eliwood since he has 1-2 range for those Shamans) without ever running into a swordie. Almost all other chapters have more lances than swords or axes. Thus at worst, Bartre is clearly not "failing" or "sucking" or anything like that. He's significantly underrated imo.

[Inui]

Good post. You proved Bartre isn't that terrible, which I'd agree with. I don't think he's better than RNG-proof, prepromoted Geitz with his good Spd.

[CATS]

RNG-proof is meaningless, lol. You know this. Bartre can get screwed and be worse than Geitz, he can also get blessed and rape him. Every deviation below average is matched by a similar chance to be the same amount above average.

Higher Spd is cool when you don't lose at literally the rest of everything. Refer to my earlier comparison. Here are the stat leads on each side.

Geitz: +3.8 Spd

Bartre: +2 Atk, +20 Crit, +2 Con, +3.3 Hp, +3.4 Def, +6.5 Res, +16.8 Avo

[Candlejack]

Bartre actually only has +1 CON over Geitz.

[CATS]

http://serenesforest.net/fe7/char_base.htm

http://serenesforest.net/fe7/promo.htm