Best GBA warrior

[Anouleth]

I picked Garcia, since I assume you want the units' performances in their own games to be compared. Garcia just contributes more than any other Fighter, even if he's not statistically better. Unless you aren't taking Garcia's multiple class choices into account, that is. Hero Garcia is by far the best on this list, though I could still see him as a Warrior making some kind of argument.

Hero Garcia is not a Warrior, therefore he can't be the best GBA Warrior.

I think that Garcia probably contributes the least. I mean, he needs to compete with FE8 dudes. He and Ross are pretty much the worst characters in the first ~10 chapters, and they only stop being in that position when Amelia and Tana join.

[Tangerine]

Hero Garcia is not a Warrior, therefore he can't be the best GBA Warrior.

Doesn't mean we don't take it into account. It's possible he wants the characters compared themselves and not just as Warriors. If that's the case, no argument needs to be made because Garcia is the clear winner.

I think that Garcia probably contributes the least. I mean, he needs to compete with FE8 dudes. He and Ross are pretty much the worst characters in the first ~10 chapters, and they only stop being in that position when Amelia and Tana join.

Garcia's competition doesn't mean much at all when the others (except Dorcas) are facing the same type of competition. Besides that, he is not worse offensively than Gilliam, Ross, Eirika, Franz or Neimi when he joins. He's better than almost all of your units defensively.

Edited February 1, 2010 by Tangerine

[Junkhead]

I was indeed reffering to him as warrior only, as a Hero he will get Spd and the ability to use swords, but this disscusion is about Wariors only.

That's right, Garcia isn't dong bad at all in his joining time, he will even double a couple of enemies, not all, but some like archers, soldiers and some fighters that get slowed down by some heavy weapon.

He at least gets +1 Spd here at FE8, the enemies are even more pathetic, especially monsters, which he will be onerounding...

I would say Dorcas does almost as good if it weren't for HM's enemies, he also starts with -1 Spd, same growth, -2 Def and gets no Spd bonus, the only good thing are a few of his supports, mostly Bartre because both of their affinities are good, their support is fast and they join at the same time.

[Florete]

Doesn't mean we don't take it into account. It's possible he wants the characters compared themselves and not just as Warriors. If that's the case, no argument needs to be made because Garcia is the clear winner.

How is Garcia the clear winner? I'll admit I haven't really looked into his performance, but having such low Spd on a team full of awesome units can't be a good thing. That, and he's only Upper Mid on our tier lists, which is the same as Geitz (And Geitz is slightly higher comparatively). Even if you call him the winner, I don't think Geitz would be far behind.

[Tangerine]

I was indeed reffering to him as warrior only, as a Hero he will get Spd and the ability to use swords, but this disscusion is about Wariors only.

That's right, Garcia isn't dong bad at all in his joining time, he will even double a couple of enemies, not all, but some like archers, soldiers and some fighters that get slowed down by some heavy weapon.

He at least gets +1 Spd here at FE8, the enemies are even more pathetic, especially monsters, which he will be onerounding...

I would say Dorcas does almost as good if it weren't for HM's enemies, he also starts with -1 Spd, same growth, -2 Def and gets no Spd bonus, the only good thing are a few of his supports, mostly Bartre because both of their affinities are good, their support is fast and they join at the same time.

Dorcas and Garcia are similar. The big difference is that Garcia is in a game where the enemies just don't threaten him, where Dorcas might end up in a bit of trouble every now and then. He can even one round often mid and late game because they're weak and weigh themselves down. I think with Geitz it's close if we don't consider Hero Garcia, but overall I'd still give it to Garcia based on early join time and horrible enemies in FE8.

Dorcas, Garcia and Geitz are the only ones who really deserve to be in this competition. I think it should've just been rounded down to them with the obvious losers eliminated. Of course, characters like Dorcas and Garcia are not going to get votes either way because people think they suck despite tier placements.

How is Garcia the clear winner? I'll admit I haven't really looked into his performance, but having such low Spd on a team full of awesome units can't be a good thing. That, and he's only Upper Mid on our tier lists, which is the same as Geitz (And Geitz is slightly higher comparatively). Even if you call him the winner, I don't think Geitz would be far behind.

17/1 Hero Garcia has enough speed (12) to double a good amount of things in FE8 at promotion time thanks to the generally horrible and horribly equipped enemies. The ones he has trouble doubling (Promoted enemies and the usual speedy unpromoted ones), he has the stupid variety of axe weapons to make up for (Halberd, Swordreaver, Garm). Combined with his join time and usefulness in the early game, he's a pretty clear cut winner as a Hero. I don't think their relative placements matter much anyway, considering how much lower Nino is than Lilina and how that went down.

I think it's close between Warrior Garcia and Geitz. Dorcas' early game contributions may even beat both of them depending on how much you believe difficulty is worth.

Edited February 1, 2010 by Tangerine

[Junkhead]

Like I said...I don't think Garcia or Dorcas suck, I just felt that Geitz does a little better due to his Spd, sure, he's not doubling much unless he encounters enemies with around 10 AS or less (He can oneround those pirates and wyern riders with ease).

Dorcas is more of a armour killer, his Str is good, the only way he could do as good as Geitz would be with a Brave Axe, problem is, you on get one from chapter 21/22.

[Tangerine]

Like I said...I don't think Garcia or Dorcas suck, I just felt that Geitz does a little better due to his Spd, sure, he's not doubling much unless he encounters enemies with around 10 AS or less (He can oneround those pirates and wyern riders with ease).

Dorcas is more of a armour killer, his Str is good, the only way he could do as good as Geitz would be with a Brave Axe, problem is, you on get one from chapter 21/22.

Well, ultimately it depends on how much you care about join time and overall worth. This will always be subjective because you can't really give join time a value. Okay, Garcia is useful for 10 more chapters in his game than Geitz is in his, but how much weight do you put on that? FE8 is also shorter than FE7, but I don't think FE7 characters should get points for that because FE8 characters literally cannot compete if we do.

There are too many variables when comparing between games, so I prefer to keep it to the basics.

Edited February 1, 2010 by Tangerine

[Florete]

17/1 Hero Garcia has enough speed (12) to double a good amount of things in FE8 at promotion time thanks to the generally horrible and horribly equipped enemies. The ones he has trouble doubling (Promoted enemies and the usual speedy unpromoted ones), he has the stupid variety of axe weapons to make up for (Halberd, Swordreaver, Garm).

How does that "make up" for it? Is he suddenly OHKOing these enemies? And who said he's entitled to Garm?

Combined with his join time and usefulness in the early game, he's a pretty clear cut winner as a Hero.

I wouldn't say so. As far as I can see, he doesn't really excel anywhere and is either on par or worse than the rest of the team for a majority of the game. Geitz is good (the team might not even be promoted when he appears) and his game is mostly harder. I'd give him the win for being mostly similar compared to the team but contributing in a harder game. There's also the part about him being a prepromote, which makes him much less likely to get screwed.

Even if you think Garcia still wins, I don't see how you can say clear cut at all.

I don't think their relative placements matter much anyway, considering how much lower Nino is than Lilina and how that went down.

And I was never sure about that.

[Tangerine]

How does that "make up" for it? Is he suddenly OHKOing these enemies? And who said he's entitled to Garm?

He OHKOs all of the enemies on horses and Myrmidons, though it doesn't help for Mercs/SMs/Heroes apart from the avo. This is assuming he doesn't have supports, though he does have some good ones.

I wouldn't say so. As far as I can see, he doesn't really excel anywhere and is either on par or worse than the rest of the team for a majority of the game. Geitz is good (the team might not even be promoted when he appears) and his game is mostly harder. I'd give him the win for being mostly similar compared to the team but contributing in a harder game. There's also the part about him being a prepromote, which makes him much less likely to get screwed.

I don't see how this is making his join time moot. Not excelling at anything doesn't matter if it's not effecting his performance in comparison. I don't see how the difficulty matters when they're performing relatively the same either. I don't think difficulty matters at all in this situation; it would matter if they were in the same game like Dorcas vs Geitz or if the difficulty was holding one unit back, but it's unfair to just give Geitz points for his game being harder. It's like giving him points for his game being longer.

Even if you think Garcia still wins, I don't see how you can say clear cut at all.

Well, it's clear to me. When two units perform similarly well in their games and one is present longer, that's a clear win for me. Maybe "by far" is what I said that confused you; I apologize for that in any case. They're close enough that join time wins it.

And I was never sure about that.

Isn't that all that needs to be said then?

[Florete]

I don't think difficulty matters at all in this situation; it would matter if they were in the same game like Dorcas vs Geitz or if the difficulty was holding one unit back, but it's unfair to just give Geitz points for his game being harder. It's like giving him points for his game being longer.

It makes perfect sense to me. Both perform similarly well against enemies, but one is in a tougher game, meaning Geitz's team won't perform as well against enemies as Garcia's team will.

Isn't that all that needs to be said then?

How so?

[Defeatist Elitist]

I don't see how this is making his join time moot. Not excelling at anything doesn't matter if it's not effecting his performance in comparison. I don't see how the difficulty matters when they're performing relatively the same either. I don't think difficulty matters at all in this situation; it would matter if they were in the same game like Dorcas vs Geitz or if the difficulty was holding one unit back, but it's unfair to just give Geitz points for his game being harder. It's like giving him points for his game being longer.

Geitz is more VALUABLE. Garcia has other units that can easily take his place. He doesn't shine. Geitz has fewer units who can do so. That's basically what is means when people say Geitz's game is harder.

[Tangerine]

It makes perfect sense to me. Both perform similarly well against enemies, but one is in a tougher game, meaning Geitz's team won't perform as well against enemies as Garcia's team will.

That makes more sense. It's the same as join time for the most part though; how do you give it a value?

How so?

If a unit can be bottom tier in her game and you don't think the unit in lower-mid tier of her game is instantly better, the relative tier placements can hardly be given much weight, especially in this situation where they're in the exact same tier.

Geitz is more VALUABLE. Garcia has other units that can easily take his place. He doesn't shine. Geitz has fewer units who can do so. That's basically what is means when people say Geitz's game is harder.

I don't think this matters at all in a direct comparison between two games. If Garcia is capable of performing just as well in his game, he shouldn't lose just because he has more units capable of replacing him. This is Geitz vs Garcia and both are being used regardless because of it.

Edited February 1, 2010 by Tangerine

[Florete]

If Garcia is capable of performing just as well in his game, he shouldn't lose just because he has more units capable of replacing him.

Um...Yeah, he should. If one unit is more easily replaceable than another, how can the former win?

In fact, this is what makes someone like Nolan in FE10 a full tier up on Boyd. Both have relatively similar performance against the enemies they face, Boyd possibly being even better at times, but while Nolan only has a few units at a time better than or equal to him, Boyd always has multiple units either similar or better.

This is Geitz vs Garcia and both are being used regardless because of it.

This feels like Gross thinking again. If I were to say the same thing about Lilina vs. Nino, suddenly Lilina looks like the winner.

[Tangerine]

Um...Yeah, he should. If one unit is more easily replaceable than another, how can the former win?

Because that unit is still just as good as the other unit. That just means more characters are equal to or better than Geitz and Garcia in FE8, it doesn't make Garcia less good compared to Geitz.

This feels like Gross thinking again. If I were to say the same thing about Lilina vs. Nino, suddenly Lilina looks like the winner.

It isn't gross at all.

Edited February 1, 2010 by Tangerine

[Defeatist Elitist]

Because that unit is still just as good as the other unit. That just means more characters are equal to or better than Geitz and Garcia in FE8, it doesn't make Garcia less good compared to Geitz.

It isn't gross at all.

But it does. Geitz is more important for completing his game than Garcia is. He helps complete the game more than Garcia does.

As for the second part Gross with a capital G, not gross. She is referring to a system of thought regarding the worth of characters. ie. Gross vs Net

Edited February 1, 2010 by ZXValaRevan

[Tangerine]

But it does. Geitz is more important for completing his game than Garcia is. He helps complete the game more than Garcia does.

Geitz isn't more important and doesn't help beat it any more than Garcia does.

As for the second part Gross with a capital G, not gross. She is referring to a system of thought regarding the worth of characters. ie. Gross vs Net

Err, I'm really not someone you need to explain this to.

[Hero]

Geitz is more VALUABLE. Garcia has other units that can easily take his place. He doesn't shine. Geitz has fewer units who can do so. That's basically what is means when people say Geitz's game is harder.

I've been thinking about this question in terms of the best performing GBA warrior, not the most valuable. I'll concede your point, I don't see any good argument against it, but we've got to set our standards straight if this conversation is going to make any sense.

[Tangerine]

It will never make any sense because you can't assign a value to either argument; neither of them are concrete.

Edited February 1, 2010 by Tangerine

[Candlejack]

Geitz is, without a doubt, the best one here. Auto Killer Bow, a base SPD that isn't a complete joke with an equal accompanying growth of 40%, and surprisingly good growths for a prepromote. Only disappointments are 20% DEF with 12 base and the lack of a quick support to make up for that weakness.

He's kind of like Largo with bows. That and his only real competition, Lott, is stuck as a sixth rung fighter with some DEF problems and the lack of a good support partner that actually WANTS him.

Everyone else on here is either average (Garcia and Dorcas) or just lol (Ross, Bartre, and Wade).

So yeah, Geitz. Unless you are a DEF whore, in which case, KNIGHTS ARE THAT-A-WAY

[Momo]

He's kind of like Largo with bows. That and his only real competition, Lott, is stuck as a sixth rung fighter with some DEF problems and the lack of a good support partner that actually WANTS him.

But Lot's anima, everyone on his list would love a piece of that. Dieck's thunder gives them both a swell Def, crit and avoid bonus, Ward's fire gives them accuracy, avoid and crit, Thany gets full Atk, Lance gets sexy double Anima (though its speed makes it undesireable).

Gonna have to say Geitz, even though

.

[Jaybee]

Geitz, mainly because he can get HM bonuses and stays good for the whole game.

[riariadne]

Geitz is probably the best. Warriors in general aren't that good, but Geitz really shines. He starts off promoted, which is a nice plus since that helps the funds rank by a ton, and he doesn't need favoritism to be good (that shoots down Ross and Batre right there, actually, and sort of Ward). He also can actually HIT with stuff and he doubles MUCH more often than most fighters (I'm ooking at you again, Batre, Ross, and Ward... Garcia too. Dorcas also has this problem, but it's not quite as bad). Actually... IIRC Batre gets DOUBLED by the mercs in his HHM joining chapter, which kinda shows how FAST he is.

So I'm going with Geitz.

[Junkhead]

IIRC Batre gets DOUBLED by the mercs in his HHM joining chapter, which kinda shows how FAST he is.

So I'm going with Geitz.

HHM? They need 7 Spd to double him, they have around 8-9 Spd on NORMAL MODE.

[Inui]

Geitz and his HM boosts and Evd/Crit boosting supports = h4x.

[Just call me AL]

But Lot's anima, everyone on his list would love a piece of that. Dieck's thunder gives them both a swell Def, crit and avoid bonus, Ward's fire gives them accuracy, avoid and crit, Thany gets full Atk, Lance gets sexy double Anima (though its speed makes it undesireable).

Gonna have to say Geitz, even though

.

Crit evade bonus, not critical rate bonus. Anima gives partial critical rate bonuses when paired with an affinity that gives critical rate bonuses.

Not that it would matter anyways, just felt like correcting you.

Edited February 1, 2010 by LittleAl