FE6 HM Tier List

[Dr. Tarrasque]

She joins very close to one and then there are two more, as well as Archers, nearby. Then reinforcement Mercs/Archers show up where she joined and she can camp with a Javelin behind someone that won't die.

If she goes out of that area where she comes in, the Archers will do her in.

@Bold: Like? Most of your units are heading for Leygance and Barth would require a healer and perhaps a couple other units in order to help him tank. If you're bringing either Zealot or Marcus over there just to help Wendy feed kills, you're doing it at the cost of efficiency. Also, Wendy isn't entitled to these mooks.

Then in the next chapter it won't take long for people to outrun Wendy unless you go out of your way to rescue drag her to fight enemies. Following that, you have the Western Isles.

[Inui]

Okay, she can hit the units. Wonderful. Now we have two big problems:

- Getting to the enemies

- Actually doing damage to them that's accurate.

Most of the team is ORKOing loldiers anyway. Archers, if they can't double Wendy, must have about 6 AS tops. She can't counterattack with the Javelin because she gets doubled, so she has to move up close. Their 5 Def makes Wendy do 3 damage with Slim. ... 12 Dieck has 12 Atk with his A Lot support and Iron Sword. That does 14 damage. Steel Sword adds 3 Atk. That does 20 damage. Iron Blade adds one more. That does 22. So Wendy can't kill them unless she wields Steel Lance, which rocks a whopping 69 Hit against the Archer's 17 Avoid. This means she has a 52% Chance to Hit, and she requires a unit to trade with her or she's getting doubled by non Soldiers / Armor Knights. She can't dent Armor Knights, which IIRC consist of a lot of the map here as well. Mages double and ORKO her.

So it's hard to even get her to reliably kill an Archer unless you seriously are telling me we're going to field Bors as well (the Triangle gives her 100% accuracy) but then I'd just laugh my ass off completely because fielding Bors is like trying to make a rock float in water.

You only need to do 1 damage to gain EXP. Her offense is horrible. That was never denied. The point I made is that she can gain EXP and Sophia can't.

She needs 50 Hits, or 25 Kills, to even hit C Lances. To do this in two chapters is nigh impossible. Not to mention Chapter 8X has two things. One, it has Mages and Fighters. I don't need to re-state that Mages ORKO her. The Fighters I am not sure about their equipment, but if they wield Iron / Hand Axe she's as good as dead. She also damages the Mercenary for 5 damage with the Javelin... not to mention this little rule that I made specifically for a reason:

You still gain WEXP when you miss.

Mages ORKO her. Everything ORKOs Sophia. EVERYTHING.

Too bad only two of them have low deployment counts, and 8x isn't one of them.

With 2 range on top of it, which means her attacking is only a liability if the enemy wields a 2 range weapon. With Wendy, it's either tickling the enemy with a Javelin or whiffing in general. Not to mention Sophia has full Mov in the desert, which makes positioning her a bit easier than Wendy as is.

If she misses that Mage, she dies, and the kill needs to be set up for her. Wendy doesn't need kills set up. She can putz around and poke things since she has Hit that is over 50.

The day Wendy actually is 10/1 is the day Percival is a Bottom Tier unit.

Uh... Okay? How is this relevant to discussion? If you're using this logic, we may as well put EVERYONE that isn't ALWAYS optimal deployment into bottom tier.

Wendy actually can be leveled to promotion. Sophia can't because she can't hit things and dies instantly from anything.

She's being used as a real unit in that chapter.

To do what? Miss against everything?

So are we going to sandbag Thieves because they have to select a command to get an item, or are we going to start comparing Thieving to recruiting a character?

No. You're just going to not credit Sophia for walking to a spot and getting an item if you're not going to credit other units for getting you items only they can obtain.

[grandjackal]

Wendy joins with 79 Hit with Iron and 64 with a Javelin, with 11 and 10 Atk respectively. Even with the Javelin, she's got more than 50 Hit against loldiers, which are plentiful. She has about 60-65 on Steel Bow Archers with Iron. Loldiers only have 2 Def and Archers have a bit more but also less HP. None of those enemies double her at all.

10 con, 11 weight javelin, reducing her to 2 AS.

http://fe.dead-end.biz/fe6hmch8.html

Archers would double her on the counter with 18 might. 8 Def, 19 HP. GG

So, you are already wrong on one notion.

Secondly, explain the short term benefits. So we waste our time with her 10 might (6RKO on archers, so even if she didn't die on the retaliation, she still now needs a healer glued to her. If she also kills the thing on enemy phase, another will move in and kill her, 5RKO on "loldiers", as much as the joke is lost on Wendy), inaccurately trying to hit at things. Ok great. Let's assume she gets kills.

....What is your point? She does not become good, useful, or necessary any time soon. At least with Sophia, a promotion nets us another staff user. What does training Wendy do? Give us a combat unit who sucks at combat who has the worst move type with no good supports. We're wasting time on nothing, why would we even bother. With Sophia, we at least have incentive.

In the next chapter, there are Mercs. Even if the Mercs are rockin' 30 Evd, she has 46 Hit with a Javelin. Just tossing Javelins here and there and poking-

Stop. Did you just act like 46 hit is just nothing? It's below 50, the real hit is now working against you thanks to 2 RNs.

Go back to start and try again.

things with Slim/Iron like loldiers and Archers lets her gain EXP and weapon levels. She can eventually use an Axereaver.

Ok great, she can "get kills" (and by "get kills", I mean "Fail to get kills due to pisspoor damage and accuracy, and we're on a time constraint due to efficiency so I don't give a rat's ass to bother waiting around to train up a unit who will just suck forever"), now what? Do you mind showing us the results? I can tell you right now that no matter how you spin it, Wendy will suck, and that if I'm going to have to deal with this sort of suck, it better at least do something. Sophia's magic damage and eventual staffs is "something". Wendy sucking is nothing.

Then again, you handwaved 46 hit displayed like it was nothing and failed immediately at the first stat comparison at Wendy's start, so maybe my hopes are too high.

When Sophia joins, she has 75 Hit with her most accurate weapon against enemies with double the avoid of the ones Wendy was facing. Even if she attacks a 40 Evd Merc from afar, she's got very shitty Hit on it. 35? Yeah, GL w/ that Sophia. She can walk up to an Archer up close and have like 45-50 Hit, while Wendy could do the same earlier with 60-65 Hit.

That's right, put Wendy in the desert, genius. Brilliant play. Ignore the fact that at least Sophia can do 12 damage on a wyvern, of which Wendy would need a silver lance at 20/0 to do, followed promptly by a vigorous assraping on the counter, of which Sophia can safely ignore. Also, let's walk past how her leveling speed is 15 on the hit and 77 exp on the kill. 2 hits and a kill is already a level. Even with her crap aim, I could get her to promotion level reletively quick, as it's not hard to do sizeable damage when you're packing magic.

This isn't BS. It's fact.

It's a fact that this argument is a lot of BS?

[Inui]

If she goes out of that area where she comes in, the Archers will do her in.

No. The Steel Bow ones do not double her. The Iron Bow one does 8x2, which doesn't kill her.

@Bold: Like? Most of your units are heading for Leygance and Barth would require a healer and perhaps a couple other units in order to help him tank. If you're bringing either Zealot or Marcus over there just to help Wendy feed kills, you're doing it at the cost of efficiency. Also, Wendy isn't entitled to these mooks.

You have a million deployment slots. Saul or Ellen can't hang back? That's going to hurt efficiency? Not really, since they're left in the dust a lot anyways. Barth can sit back there and she can poke with a Javelin. There's no reason not to. As you said, everyone else is going to Leygance, right? She can just...not. And thus her horrible Mov means little.

Then in the next chapter it won't take long for people to outrun Wendy unless you go out of your way to rescue drag her to fight enemies. Following that, you have the Western Isles.

Why can't she be rescued and then dropped like everyone else? Also, she can fight the enemies to the left or something. Merc and a Myrm she can actually hit. Then she can just catch up eventually or never. Thany can get her. Whatever. The point is, she can gain EXP, Sophia can't.

10 con, 11 weight javelin, reducing her to 2 AS.

http://fe.dead-end.biz/fe6hmch8.html

Archers would double her on the counter with 18 might. 8 Def, 19 HP. GG

So, you are already wrong on one notion.

Wendy is now attacking Archers from afar with a Javelin. Brilliant sandbagging. Or she can not have that weapon equipped and hit the Archer up close.

Secondly, explain the short term benefits. So we waste our time with her 10 might (6RKO on archers, so even if she didn't die on the retaliation, she still now needs a healer glued to her. If she also kills the thing on enemy phase, another will move in and kill her, 5RKO on "loldiers", as much as the joke is lost on Wendy), inaccurately trying to hit at things. Ok great. Let's assume she gets kills.

....What is your point? She does not become good, useful, or necessary any time soon. At least with Sophia, a promotion nets us another staff user. What does training Wendy do? Give us a combat unit who sucks at combat who has the worst move type with no good supports. We're wasting time on nothing, why would we even bother. With Sophia, we at least have incentive.

There is none. Wendy is horrible.

My point, as it has been from the start, is that Wendy can gain EXP and Sophia can't, at least nowhere near reliably at all. Sophia needs to fight to get to 10/0 before promoting. How does she do this?

Stop. Did you just act like 46 hit is just nothing? It's below 50, the real hit is now working against you thanks to 2 RNs.

Go back to start and try again.

Sophia has like 35 Hit against the Mercs in her situations. That is much worse. Wendy has a realistic chance of hitting. Also, that 30 Evd number was pulled out of my ass. It could be less. Wendy's level could be higher. I don't know, and I don't care. The point is, it's much better than what Sophia can get.

It's a fact that this argument is a lot of BS?

There was no argument made. It was numbers displaying the Hit chances of Wendy and Sophia when they join. Those numbers are facts.

[dondon151]

Sophia smacks around the WKs pretty hard (at least, compared to Wendy). WKs and WLs have 2 res, although what's even more hilarious is that they have 22-28 avo, which means that Sophia is pulling slightly better hit rates and getting a lot more EXP per kill.

Also, it is extremely likely that Wendy will face 0 enemies in chapter 8. Making good use of mounted units means that you'll actually get to their position before they enter the map, and the only EXP Wendy might get is from hitting a reinforcement archer. That's about it.

[Colonel M]

Okay, I'll tell you what. I have the greatest idea here, and this will help me see Wendy > Sophia.

Show me, in video form, that Wendy is being a positive to an efficient team and that she can actually get kills without being a major hog. Oh, also describe when she is hitting Level 10 and the major opportunity cost to getting a Knight Crest on top of it. Not to mention lol4 Mov, which means it is difficult to reach an Enemy on the Player Phase. Have fun with that. You can also set up kills easier with Sophia than you can with Wendy. Wendy has to have the enemies nearly dead in order to kill them.

You only need to do 1 damage to gain EXP. Her offense is horrible. That was never denied. The point I made is that she can gain EXP and Sophia can't.

Well, you just basically stated the directions for Sophia to gain EXP: she only needs to do 1 point of damage.

You still gain WEXP when you miss.

Mages ORKO her. Everything ORKOs Sophia. EVERYTHING.

Too bad only two of them have low deployment counts, and 8x isn't one of them.

8X has 10 deployment slots. We also don't want to waste any time with this chapter either because, again, we're still attempting to beat this game in an efficient pace. Then what? Do we leave those two Mercenaries for her that do 16 damage per round at her? Then the Mage just creeps up and ORKOes?

Okay, Sophia is ORKOed by everything. Point taken. But that's besides the point. First off, she's being used in her forced time period, not when she is taking up a deployment slot. Secondly, she can avoid most of the enemies since not all of them have 2 range (hey look Mercenaries have 1 range) and Wendy is still being a detriment with her lol4 Mov in this chapter. To assume 50 hits in two chapters is borderline impossible. There isn't even 50 turns total for C8 and C8X in most playthroughs of mine.

If she misses that Mage, she dies, and the kill needs to be set up for her. Wendy doesn't need kills set up. She can putz around and poke things since she has Hit that is over 50.

If she can actually reach the units on time, maybe. Then again, all Sophia has to do is chip something and she gets EXP. In the Western Isles she just gets assraped by Hand Axe bufoons and she can't wield a Steel Lance without being doubled, which means she's left doing rofl 4-5 damage. Not even Fir can setup the kill against these things, so she's just left chipping them for piss poor damage and getting hit back for a lot more damage. Oh, and the Mage situations are indifferent for either of them.

Uh... Okay? How is this relevant to discussion? If you're using this logic, we may as well put EVERYONE that isn't ALWAYS optimal deployment into bottom tier.

Wendy actually can be leveled to promotion. Sophia can't because she can't hit things and dies instantly from anything.

Wendy cannot be leveled to promotion because her shitty Mov disallows it whatsoever. Not to mention her gay damage can't even set up kills for another unit. That's fucking pathetic.

To do what? Miss against everything?

Since she's a forced unit, she has little negative cost to using her. So yeah, just doing about that.

No. You're just going to not credit Sophia for walking to a spot and getting an item if you're not going to credit other units for getting you items only they can obtain.

You can barely compare Guiding Ring to joining items. How can you compare recruitment to her getting the Ring? Can we not credit Matthew for getting the Silver Card while we're at it?

You have a million deployment slots. Saul or Ellen can't hang back? That's going to hurt efficiency? Not really, since they're left in the dust a lot anyways. Barth can sit back there and she can poke with a Javelin. There's no reason not to. As you said, everyone else is going to Leygance, right? She can just...not. And thus her horrible Mov means little.

Which means all that's left to protect her is Barth and OJ. And, you know, not reach an enemy until they spawn as reinforcements and she just dies to two of them.

Why can't she be rescued and then dropped like everyone else? Also, she can fight the enemies to the left or something. Merc and a Myrm she can actually hit. Then she can just catch up eventually or never. Thany can get her. Whatever. The point is, she can gain EXP, Sophia can't.

Because Rescuing and dropping another unit can have other benefits. What's the benefit of rescuing Wendy? Wasting our time? That just adds insult to the injury:

Breaking News: Wendy needs to be carried to get CEXP.

More news at 11.

There is none. Wendy is horrible.

My point, as it has been from the start, is that Wendy can gain EXP and Sophia can't, at least nowhere near reliably at all. Sophia needs to fight to get to 10/0 before promoting. How does she do this?

So does Wendy. How does she do this?

Sophia has like 35 Hit against the Mercs in her situations. That is much worse. Wendy has a realistic chance of hitting. Also, that 30 Evd number was pulled out of my ass. It could be less. Wendy's level could be higher. I don't know, and I don't care. The point is, it's much better than what Sophia can get.

Unless she uses the Javelin and plays Tickle Me Elmo with the Enemy, Sophia can do it safely in that point.

There was no argument made. It was numbers displaying the Hit chances of Wendy and Sophia when they join. Those numbers are facts.

Getting Wendy to 10/0 realistically isn't a fact. It's almost impossible without major favoritism.

Edited March 9, 2010 by Tyranel M

[Inui]

I can't get anywhere with this because you people somehow think Sophia can gain EXP when she really can't, lol. Colonel M seems to be under the impression that Wendy needs to kill all the time to gain EXP and needs kills sets up or whatever when she can do 1 damage and still gain EXP.

Hey guess what buddy? Wendy is horrendous. Sophia is horrendous. Repeating this over and over is getting annoying. Of course Wendy doesn't contribute positively. She is bottom tier. Sophia existing on maps is only going to create suck as well. However, if you choose to use Wendy, it appears to be possible. Sophia? Uh........

The Guiding Ring has nothing to do with Sophia beyond her stepping on a spot. It has nothing to do with her performance as a unit at all.

Sophia steps on spot. Obtains item.

Lalum steps near Percival. Talks. Obtains items and a new unit.

What's the difference? Nothing, yet you insist there is one out of convenience. Sigh.

I am done discussing this matter.

Edit: I just had Wendy gain one level as soon as she joined. Zealot didn't one-round the loldier with a hand axe, then it attacked Wendy as soon as she came out, and it died. Oujay lured in the Archer, Marcus hit it and didn't kill it, and then Wendy killed it. HOW CAN YOU EVER DO THAT WITH SOPHIA!? I don't understand, lol.

Edited March 9, 2010 by Inui

[grandjackal]

Wendy is now attacking Archers from afar with a Javelin. Brilliant sandbagging. Or she can not have that weapon equipped and hit the Archer up close.

Considering she's attacking everything else with a javelin because otherwise she gets a firm deathstick rammed up her ass, it means I have to trade her out.

By the way, you're the one who suggested to have her attack at the reinforcements who come from the north. The only way for her to attack with safety or without messing up the trap is with a javelin. Archer moves in, swing and a miss.

This means I have to have someone sit around and trade her out. Then if an archer takes the place and starts taking potshots at Wendy, that same person has to plug up the trap while she runs away form doing what she needs to do to level up.

You can't win this.

There is none. Wendy is horrible.

So you're saying this entire argument erupted, and your point is nothing?

Speedy, am I allowed to report this as trolling? Because that sounds textbook.

My point, as it has been from the start, is that Wendy can gain EXP and Sophia can't, at least nowhere near reliably at all. Sophia needs to fight to get to 10/0 before promoting. How does she do this?

A safer way than Wendy through magic damage, at range, with a far faster leveling speed, through soon-coming steel-weight pirates of 14x, steel cavs in 15, anima punks in 16, needing far less effort to help gum down her kills, I don't know...

Again, Wendy getting EXP is pointless on the basis of she becomes nothing worthwhile. At least with Sophia, I get magic chip and staffs. Unless you show what point there is to give Wendy kills to level up, other than "just for shits and giggles", you might as well be arguing we give lances to Echidna to use as weapons.

That being, it's a stupid pointless waste of time.

Sophia has like 35 Hit against the Mercs in her situations. That is much worse. Wendy has a realistic chance of hitting. Also, that 30 Evd number was pulled out of my ass. It could be less. Wendy's level could be higher. I don't know, and I don't care. The point is, it's much better than what Sophia can get.

On wyverns, it's 55, next chapter with it's steel pirates it's 56. Not all enemies are those mercs, and if Wendy is free to get away with kills on that, then so is Sophia. 3 kills is already two level ups. The speed is another reason why Sophia requires far less effort.

There was no argument made. It was numbers displaying the Hit chances of Wendy and Sophia when they join. Those numbers are facts.

So you admit there was no point in this? Fine, then this Wendy vs Sophia discussion is over, since you seem to admit that arguing Wendy over Sophia is pointless.

[Florete]

No. You're just going to not credit Sophia for walking to a spot and getting an item if you're not going to credit other units for getting you items only they can obtain.

You know, I did make this post:

Just because they might get credit for those doesn't suddenly mean they'll shoot up. For example, Lalum/Elphin get those Silver weapons in 15 and they're buyable in 17 anyway on Sacae. On either route Killer weapons are also already available, as well as one of each Silver weapon having been acquired earlier in the game. In the end, getting those weapons doesn't actually have a big impact.

As for Lilina, the Steel Axe and Hand Axe are virtually useless to her case for what should be obvious reasons and Devil Axe is only really good for raising weapon levels fast, but somehow I don't see it having a large enough impact to make Lilina much better.

[Rewjeo]

WTF @ training Wendy not being a negative. Training her at the rate you suggested requires AT LEAST FIFTEEN TURNS PER CHAPTER. And then I showed that Sophia gains experience at almost exactly the same rate as Wendy thanks to being so underleveled. So, yeah, Wendy's not easier to train up. Not only that, but Sophia can eventually promote and get staves WITHOUT requiring me to take AT LEAST FIFTEEN TURNS PER CHAPTER. I can't do that with Wendy.

[dondon151]

I am done discussing this matter.

So you concede, great. It's not like your argument was drowned immediately after you posted it anyway.

Edit: I just had Wendy gain one level as soon as she joined. Zealot didn't one-round the loldier with a hand axe, then it attacked Wendy as soon as she came out, and it died. Oujay lured in the Archer, Marcus hit it and didn't kill it, and then Wendy killed it. HOW CAN YOU EVER DO THAT WITH SOPHIA!? I don't understand, lol.

What's up with Marcus not killing the archer?

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Edit: I just had Wendy gain one level as soon as she joined. Zealot didn't one-round the loldier with a hand axe, then it attacked Wendy as soon as she came out, and it died. Oujay lured in the Archer, Marcus hit it and didn't kill it, and then Wendy killed it. HOW CAN YOU EVER DO THAT WITH SOPHIA!? I don't understand, lol.

Just to erase doubts, Sophia after killing a Wyvern or Mage:

Possibilities being:

1. Wyverns. As Dondon mentioned, Sophia will hit these harder than Wendy can and could probably hope to. The more damage you do, the easier it is to net kills and the more kills you can get, the faster you may level up. Also helps to have that +1 MOV lead over her.

2. Mages. Barrier staff + weakened mage = unfortunate mook.

3. Every other enemy that isn't packing Merc avoid.

Hopefully this discussion is never touched again >_>.

Edited March 9, 2010 by Speedwagon

[Colonel M]

This almost reminds me of GJ's days when he tried to hype Wendy as a good unit over IM. At least he sort of learned...

I hope so at least.

[Inui]

If you are under the impression that I view Wendy as anything but the second worst unit in the game, you are mistaken.

Also you guys assumed too much stuff and misinterpreted me, which made this annoying.

[Reikken]

If you discount the Guiding Ring, Wendy > Sophia because she can actually do stuff in her joining chapter, while Sophia can't. What kinds of things? Stick an iron/slim lance in something to weaken it or finish it off (for example, an average 11/0 Lance with C/C is 2-5 damage short of one-rounding with an iron lance for just about every soldier on the map, 4-10 damage short on archers), or block off archer/merc reinforcements from those south towers (things can get messy there if you're trying to advance while they're still pouring out, and 8 def is enough to live through either of them; you don't even need a healer or someone else to come kill it right away if you pop a vulnerary). Also, if something happens and Wendy dies, no worries. However, if Sophia dies, you miss 14x, so no only is she 500x more fragile, but also you can't take any risks with her at all.

If we're using them all the way to promotion and beyond? Now that requires a bit more discussion.

also, sad fact: some of the mages in 8x don't double base level Wendy

Edited March 9, 2010 by Reikken

[Colonel M]

If you are under the impression that I view Wendy as anything but the second worst unit in the game, you are mistaken.

Trust me, we've been over this one many times with GJ. Everyone but him basically agreed to it, and now he even agrees to it.

If you discount the Guiding Ring...

While I am not taking your post out of context, I am not ready to discount the Guiding Ring yet as nothing has actually convinced me otherwise.

also, sad fact: some of the mages in 8x don't double base level Wendy

Unless they are reinforcements, I count all but one with 8 base Spd, and that one is near your units.

Edited March 9, 2010 by Tyranel M

[Inui]

I don't consider the Guiding Ring at all and never will unless all items obtained by units through strange events or storyline stuff also count.

[Florete]

Is the reason no one is even acknowledging my posts on characters getting credit for items from recruited allies because everyone agrees with me?

Edited March 9, 2010 by Red Fox of Fire

[Inui]

The tier list doesn't reflect it except in the case of thieves and Sophia.

[Reikken]

While I am not taking your post out of context, I am not ready to discount the Guiding Ring yet as nothing has actually convinced me otherwise.

Well don't direct that at me. I'm just saying that if you do, then blah.

If you don't, then Sophia is obviously better--and better than a number of other units too; being able to promote another of Lugh/Ellen/Saul/Clarine 3-4 chapters earlier is w1n--so it's not even worth talking about.

[Florete]

The tier list doesn't reflect it except in the case of thieves and Sophia.

Example of where it would change something?

[Colonel M]

Well don't direct that at me. I'm just saying that if you do, then blah.

If you don't, then Sophia is obviously better--and better than a number of other units too; being able to promote another of Lugh/Ellen/Saul/Clarine 3-4 chapters earlier is w1n--so it's not even worth talking about.

Yeah don't worry, I was just stating that because that's where part of your argument was going (and it was fine, it was a valid argument). I also double checked those Mages: all but one have 8 Spd in C8.

[Reikken]

Is the reason no one is even acknowledging my posts on characters getting credit for items from recruited allies because everyone agrees with me?

In my case, yes. For example, Clarine/Roy gets you a Silver Bow. However, that's not worth much for either because either of the two can do it, and even once you have it, it's worth no more than it sells for unless you have Klein in play to actually use it; no one else can use it.

Roy gets you a Brave axe on A route. However, generally your units don't make very good use of this weapon because it's SO heavy and inaccurate. It does have its moments, but meh.

I also double checked those Mages: all but one have 8 Spd in C8.

8x

X

Edited March 9, 2010 by Reikken

[Florete]

In my case, yes. For example, Clarine/Roy gets you a Silver Bow. However, that's not worth much for either because either of the two can do it, and even once you have it, it's worth no more than it sells for unless you have Klein in play to actually use it; no one else can use it.

Roy gets you a Brave axe on A route. However, generally your units don't make very good use of this weapon because it's SO heavy and inaccurate. It does have its moments, but meh.

Now if Inui would read this we might be able to get somewhere.

[Inui]

Echidna is right above Lalum. Lalum adds her Steel Axe and then Percival's two Silver weapons to your arsenal as well as contributing towards getting a Knight Crest which is very awesome. Is that enough to put her above Echidna? Probably.

I'd say Lilina should be raised...because I assumed she'd be below a much better unit like Garret or Zeiss, but I guess not, lol.

Roy gets you tons and tons of shit, ranging from crappy weapons to the Brave Axe. He should be moved up.

Also wtf @ Garret being below Lilina on any list ever.