FE9 Tier List

[Dat Nick]

K, but i'm pretty much fed up of you already

[Inui]

You will continue to troll and flame.

I won't.

And who will be the last one standing? ;)

[Rodykitty]

And who will be the last one standing? ;)

Not me, because I will be sitting on the throne, sipping well aged wine, with maidens fanning me with plastic gigantic leaves, while I watch MacGyver on an HD Plasma Screen TV, and surfing the internet on a laptop beside me.

[Dat Nick]

You will continue to troll and flame.

I said%2

Edited February 26, 2010 by Fred Fuchs

[Inui]

lol @ FE3 Player

That's fine, Fred. I'll just keep reporting stuff. XD

[Dat Nick]

That post was hardly report worthy, but if you want to keep acting like a child, fine.

Edited February 26, 2010 by Fred Fuchs

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Enough of this. Stick to FE9 discussion and cease the trolling, flame baiting and derailing.

[CATS]

On the subject of Volke vs Mist, is there a chance that Sothe wouldn't be recruited? In this case Volke might be considerably more valuable, though I guess chest keys still exist.

I suppose you will have to PM me if you wish to keep attacking me, Interceptor. I personally don't care enough to PM you a response to that post.

[-Cynthia-]

In theory I guess we could say "No" to reruiting Sothe, though that's really pushing the limits of how theoretically dumb the player is.

[CATS]

Yeah, I don't know the specifics of Sothe's recruitment, it was just a thought on how the comparison might be different here.

[Progenitus]

sothe can be obtained with a base convo, so it's very easy to recruit him.

So guys... Volke > Mist?

Better combat, and healing is devaluated by Rhys' existence, as well as units having high durability. Thief utility is a plus, and is most likely going to be used more than Sothe.

Mist has the Sonic Sword, but Volke is not reliant on one-time weapons in order to have solid combat. Volke can also steal Physic staves in one chapter.

Better combat?

20/1 Mist

28.5 HP, 9.65 str, 17.5 mag, 9.75 skl, 17.6 spd, 17.4 lck, 7.85 def, 16.6 res

20/1 Volke

33.5 HP, 19.5 str, 1.5 mag, 21.5 skl, 21.5 spd, 10.5 lck, 11 def, 6 res

Mist has literally the best support list in the game (Titania, Jill, Mordy, Boyd), which means it's very easy for her to get full supports. Volke only has lolbastian.

After supports, durability is pretty easily in Mist's favor. At the very least she will tie def, with more than a double digit res lead compared to Volke's 5 HP, with similar avo (more avo if she supports Jill).

Volke does win offense, but keep in mind that Mist, at the very least, has ACCESS to some kind of forge. You can never forge knives.

[Narga_Rocks]

Yeah, I don't know the specifics of Sothe's recruitment, it was just a thought on how the comparison might be different here.

Oh, Sothe's a base convo. I think we can at least agree that our theoretical scrub will go to all the base convos.

What are we assuming about the tutorial (and whether the scrub reads it)? This is HM, but I think PoR had the tutorial on every single mode, unlike RD. It gives a fair amount of information, including supports I think. It certainly talked about base convos. So one would think Sothe is recruited. However, Volke is "cooler" and has generally better stats, so you could possibly make an argument that Sothe is only deployed in places like chapter 13 where the player can clearly see a need for multiple thieves. Maybe later on down the line with the indoor maps that have chest rooms, too, since by that point in the game our scrub should know that many of those rooms have chests inside.

Also, I asked before, but:

What playthrough is this for the player? Is this like first go-around? How much and how badly (s)he is likely to screw up is correlated to how many playthroughs.

[Interceptor]

On the subject of Volke vs Mist, is there a chance that Sothe wouldn't be recruited? In this case Volke might be considerably more valuable, though I guess chest keys still exist.

Of course there's a chance. You can say "no" during his recruitment conversation, and I'll interpret this as meaning the Ignoramus randomly chooses one of the options, resulting in Sothe not existing at least half of the time. He's pretty sketchy, honestly.

I personally don't care enough to PM you a response to that post.

Color me surprised.

Mist has literally the best support list in the game (Titania, Jill, Mordy, Boyd), which means it's very easy for her to get full supports. Volke only has lolbastian.

That's only a small advantage for Mist, considering that that Ignoramus has no idea what good supports are, and is terrible at keeping units together on purpose for the bonuses regardless.

Volke does win offense, but keep in mind that Mist, at the very least, has ACCESS to some kind of forge. You can never forge knives.

Forges? I'm not sure how much they matter, considering the likelihood that she'd even be given a forge, never mind the likelihood that the forge is any good to begin with. I'd say that 43% of the time, she has a forge that doesn't even have max mt.

[CATS]

Color me surprised.

Not that I don't have a response, it's just that I do not intend to post further off-topic material, especially when mod attention has clearly been drawn to this topic. Although the fact that I really just don't care is also a contributing factor.

What are we assuming about the tutorial (and whether the scrub reads it)?

I would likely assume that the scrub reads the tutorial; the condition was that the scrub has access only to the information contained on the game disc (or perhaps in the manual that comes with it), and I believe this is on the game disc, so it would safe to assume that he has access to this information and would utilize it to some extent.

What playthrough is this for the player? Is this like first go-around? How much and how badly (s)he is likely to screw up is correlated to how many playthroughs.

The assumption is that the player is not entirely stupid and clueless, so I would assume a 3rd or 4th playthrough rather than the first time through. Some prior knowledge of the game, but not to the extent of the people who post here.

Think I should put these in the OP?

[Narga_Rocks]

That's only a small advantage for Mist, considering that that Ignoramus has no idea what good supports are, and is terrible at keeping units together on purpose for the bonuses regardless.

Well, lots of people go "eww, laguz. I don't like gauge" so Mordy has a good chance of not helping Mist. People might simply kill Jill in chapter 10. Hey look! an enemy I can't recruit. DIE! They don't know how long supports take, so Titania might go with Ike and Boyd/Rhys, since I'd assume they'll gather up whatever comes first. I think the manual or the tutorial says 5 max, so I'd assume Scrub knows that much and thus may decide he wants an AB set up so Mist can't really get anything if Titania already goes with Ike and Boyd. I have no idea if Mist gets credit for chapter 9. I'd assume so, since she appears before the first turn starts. If so, Mist may get Boyd. In fact, I think it is somewhat reasonable to assume Mist gets A Boyd, B Rolf, or A Rolf, B Boyd. It seems to me that this is the most reasonable pairing, and that these are the units most likely to stay within 3 squares of her anyway.

At A Rolf B Boyd (A Boyd takes forever in comparison. Scrub may not want to wait) Mist gets +3 mt, +2 def/res, +12 hit, +7 avo. I don't know how much that helps against Volke.

Personally, I like Mist > Volke just based off healing vs. stealing. I'm not sure of the tier gap though. Then again, certain items are probably not obtainable for scrub. Like, those sleep staves and silence staves that I love getting and probably some long range tomes. Maybe even some of the physic staves, though I really don't see why you wouldn't notice those and get them.

I have no idea what thief utility Volke is left with. Nor do I know about Mist. Scrub may promote a mage early and compare their offence and healing to Mist and decide to scrub her. Are we assuming that the unit being tiered is always deployed for the purpose of tiering? If so, Scrub might still have Soren/Ilyana do most of the healing since they can fight and heal now that they've been promoted.

Forges? I'm not sure how much they matter, considering the likelihood that she'd even be given a forge, never mind the likelihood that the forge is any good to begin with. I'd say that 43% of the time, she has a forge that doesn't even have max mt.

Well, I'd have to say that on average a forge would have around +3 mt. I think that's what I did first time except on characters I really liked. I'd expect Scrub would play a bit cheaply and so not max out forges. I don't know if he'd waste money of crit for units that don't benefit much by it.

Oh, and may as well put it in the OP. I think the game disc stuff was edited out. As for what to say, something about has access to tutorials and manual information and doesn't ignore it. As for playthroughs, has played enough that he has a reasonable understanding of the game, but not excessively so. Probably don't need to nail it down to a specific number, though that is an option.

Edited February 26, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[Interceptor]

Although the fact that I really just don't care is also a contributing factor.

It is the only factor; a PM is a Private Message, freed from the prying eyes of meddling mods.

I would likely assume that the scrub reads the tutorial; the condition was that the scrub has access only to the information contained on the game disc (or perhaps in the manual that comes with it), and I believe this is on the game disc, so it would safe to assume that he has access to this information and would utilize it to some extent.

This is a terrible assumption to be making. True story, a friend of mine recently bought this game used, on a recommendation from yours truly. It came with a case, but there was no manual. His understanding of the game is entirely by the seat of his pants, he is not reading the tutorials (I asked). He liked using Shinon in Ch7 to block a doorway.

Think I should put these in the OP?

The OP is sorely in need of all sorts of guidance and/or clarification.

[Narga_Rocks]

This is a terrible assumption to be making. True story, a friend of mine recently bought this game used, on a recommendation from yours truly. It came with a case, but there was no manual. His understanding of the game is entirely by the seat of his pants, he is not reading the tutorials (I asked). He liked using Shinon in Ch7 to block a doorway.

Well, we can enforce it.

But in the case of normal humans, yes, many will go into it without reading the manual (if they got one) and without the tutorial.

In order to actually have discussion without guessing about everything, you might as well assume some things are known. Also, even without the tutorial, assuming 3rd or 4th playthrough should fix some of the really dumb things that Scrub could do.

[Interceptor]

Well, I'd have to say that on average a forge would have around +3 mt. I think that's what I did first time except on characters I really liked. I'd expect Scrub would play a bit cheaply and so not max out forges. I don't know if he'd waste money of crit for units that don't benefit much by it.

I'm not sure about that, crits are pretty satisfying, and if people aren't inclined to crunch the numbers that may be enough to push crit rate forward. As evidence, I submit the Kieran Gamble thread as Exhibit A.

So I would agree that players don't always max mt, even assuming that they remember to forge in the first place, and will probably prioritize +crit to some significant extent.

[General Spoon]

I'm not sure about that, crits are pretty satisfying, and if people aren't inclined to crunch the numbers that may be enough to push crit rate forward. As evidence, I submit the Kieran Gamble thread as Exhibit A.

Exhibit A is received.

[Anouleth]

I know that on my first playthrough, I didn't recruit Jill/Stefan/Shinon/Tauroneo. (I stole his Occult though.)

[Narga_Rocks]

I know that on my first playthrough, I didn't recruit Jill/Stefan/Shinon/Tauroneo. (I stole his Occult though.)

I missed Marcia. I never talked to her in the first boat chapter. Oops. Also missed Shinon.

You missing Taur is similar to me missing Marcia. If you don't talk to them, it doesn't happen. They are both listed under where it says to which units you can speak, but sometimes stuff happens.

[Anouleth]

I missed Marcia. I never talked to her in the first boat chapter. Oops. Also missed Shinon.

You missing Taur is similar to me missing Marcia. If you don't talk to them, it doesn't happen. They are both listed under where it says to which units you can speak, but sometimes stuff happens.

Well, I saw Kasatai, and I assumed they were both just mid-chapter bosses.

(I really, really like the idea of multiple bosses in a chapter, and I think it's a shame that it's so rare in most of the newer FEs. I mean, I hear FE4 had chapters with like 20 bosses.)

[Narga_Rocks]

Well, I saw Kasatai, and I assumed they were both just mid-chapter bosses.

(I really, really like the idea of multiple bosses in a chapter, and I think it's a shame that it's so rare in most of the newer FEs. I mean, I hear FE4 had chapters with like 20 bosses.)

I suppose you could count the last chapter as having 29 bosses, but many of them really shouldn't count as bosses, they are just named enemies really. Like the 12 dark warriors surrounding the final castle. Also the 3 dark bishops guarding castles that are easily ORKOd by Celice with Tyrfing + Power Ring and they barely damage him back. That arguably cuts it down to 14 real bosses, which I suppose is still a lot even for something that size. Still, with 5 castles on that map it's more like 3 per castle, which isn't really all that much.

Also, like my mistake with Marcia, there isn't really much excuse for not initiating all conversations in fe9. Now, in fe4, the game didn't list conversations between PCs and enemies, just between two PCs. So there is certainly an excuse to not talk to various enemy units in fe4 and thus miss them.

[Inui]

Well, I saw Kasatai, and I assumed they were both just mid-chapter bosses.

(I really, really like the idea of multiple bosses in a chapter, and I think it's a shame that it's so rare in most of the newer FEs. I mean, I hear FE4 had chapters with like 20 bosses.)

Chapters with multiple bosses are cool. FE 7 had Cameron and Maxime as sub-bosses, but that's it. Damien doesn't count since you're not supposed to fight Fargus which makes him the real boss anyways. FE 4 starts off with only one boss per castle (a castle can be considered the length of a GBA/GC chapter), but then sub-bosses start to become more common, and you even get two recruitable ones thrown at you in the second chapter.

[Narga_Rocks]

FE 4 starts off with only one boss per castle (a castle can be considered the length of a GBA/GC chapter), but then sub-bosses start to become more common, and you even get two recruitable ones thrown at you in the second chapter.

With no indication of how to recruit them at all. Seriously, take the castle without killing her and then talk to her with Sigurd? And the next one gives no hints but is easier to recruit. But seriously, why doesn't it say when your characters can talk to the enemy? At least Jamka would be easier to recruit (if you didn't already know) if you could pull up the list of your units and see that one of your characters can have a chat with him.