Lord of Azure Flame: Chat

[Kanami]

No war. There's enough of that in the rp. Let's keep it there.

I did warn you :/

So this is such a big deal, that the Katie/Iso convo should be deleted/pushed back nine chapters until Morgan's convos catch up? Or can we just move passed this incident and do better in the future?

Moving passed something without actually making a plan to change it, or implementing countermeasures is just a sneaky way of saying "shut up." Nothing has been resolved in regards to supports so "I'll try harder in future" means very little, if at all credible. Furthermore, allowing Katie/Iso may act as a precedent for others who want a "quick and dirty friendship" support conversation. And isn't very fair overall. If there's an issue, ignoring it and moving on is just prolonging the issue.

It's not that I want Snowy to go Palpatine on us. Since he's overworked I also don't mean to put more in his lap. I just want all of our disagreements to be superceded by his final ruling. That's not even really work in the general sense unless something has to be written up. That makes things easier on all of us. Snowy says we do this, we do it. No votes or committees to slow things down.

As said prior, an RP isn't a fanfiction, it's made up of various writers, Snowy does a good job hearing people out, probably a bit too much but I'm not going to complain there. However there is nothing wrong with challenging what he says. In the case of Damian/Katie's engagement, you were the first to blow the whistle, and Snowy also asked for it to be removed, this was fine, but I can understand the plausibile reasoning Ether came up with which was later supported by Balcerzak, if it had been an essential part of Ethers plan for his character then he may have fought harder against the removal, but apparently it was just something he came up with on the spot and didn't really seem to care. I agree that in the end, Snowy decides, but that doesn't mean his words are final, not the first time round at least anyway.

If Snowy says do it, I'll do it. If not, I'm sticking with the current thing.

Snowy says jump of a cliff

Fine ... -_-

I don't see why this'd even be an issue, I mean from your posts you seem to indicate that you don't really even care about gaining "cheap" stats from Supports, so giving everyone a "fair go" at getting exp should be your policy in the first place, assuming that you really are the "Mr Integrity" you paint yourself to be.

I did warn you :/

XD Edited May 8, 2010 by Nadesico

[Phoenix]

1) I counter with Slippery Slope. "It's only level C" is an incredibly weak defense, and shouldn't be allowed to fly. The fact that the _text_ of C conversations in games tends to be fairly introductory is a limit imposed by the format of the games. C level is the first level, and so the conversation has to reflect this. Barring recruitment or some other plot critical interaction between the two characters, it will be the first time they interact, and the conversation has to reflect that. Even so, mechanics-wise it still requires substantial investment in order to build the support.

2) You've not given us any reason to assume otherwise. In-game, supports tend to progress linearly with very few exceptions (e.g. Lyn/Florina). A very quick first support tends to imply a very quick second support, etc. etc. How could you reasonably expect us to assume you're not just going to blitz all down the line, especially after nabbing in very quick succession two supports already (Iri/Iso, Iso/Kat) with the involved parties not even existing until various points in chapter 3.

3) I think you seriously overestimate the amount of "FAIL", and even if there are chronic arguments, disagreements, etc. That by no way precludes bonding. Saul/Dorothy anyone? Any pair of rivals, ever. Supports, disagreements are vital ingredients for learning to see where the other person's coming from, what makes them tick. The fact that we don't always agree or have the same priorities, by no means stops things flat in their tracks.

*sigh* Take it up with Snowy, man ... if he say no, then that means you're right. If not, I hope you'll let it go. The first three chapters of the story have been nothing but arguments and the support convos are actually helping to drag us out of the hell hole. Yes they're a little fast right now, and some of them can be disqualified I guess, but at the same time, you guys seem to think that this is how it's always going to be. There's no indication right now that there'll be any new supports from my characters this chapter, and after this, I don't plan to for another few at least. Can't risk the blow back

Here was my layout for relationship norms in a group like this:

Meeting/Introduction:

Convos: First encounters where interest is established

Support C: Get to know you/Friendship

Convos: Follow up convos for progression (three/four/fiveish?)

Convos:

Support B: Friendship+/BFF

Convos: Follow up convos for progression (six/seven/eightish?)

Convos:

Convos:

Support A: True friendship or Love

Convos: Follow up convos for progression (nine/ten/elevenish?)

Convos:

Convos:

Convos:

Support S: Life Long Bond/Blood Oath/Marriage (unbreakable yadahyadah)

It's not a bad system, but everyone has this idea that I'm weasaling around with the supports for some reason. Maybe it's cause of the Ether thing. I'll probably call that convo off until later or have it marked as "not an actual support" or something if that helps.

Thoughts on my initial progression chart? :)

@ Cynthia

I would mark Iso and Katie's relationship as "prior friendship", personally, but that's not really conflicting with anything other than your conception of relationships in this story. Katie might bond easily, and Iso sympathized with her from the beginning so a support doesn't seem so off the wall to me, not even at this stage :/

@ Everything Nady said ...

What? :/

Edited May 8, 2010 by Phoenix

[Snowy_One]

I say dance the Smooth Criminal Phoenix! :D

Anyways, I do see the complaint. I don't think the convo needs to be removed, and I want it to stay as it allowed a bit of exploration into Katie's backstory. I understand the support complaint, but we should seriously start getting a few C's at least! I don't care as much which way we do it, so long as it's one approved by others here as well.

[Phoenix]

@ Nady

Jumping off a cliff? That wouldn't hurt very much, I can fly.

@ Snowy

See? Your "final say" works just fine. I know it'll bite me eventually, but I can live with that if the rp survives this initial bs :)

I'll go get my Michael Jackson sneakers now .... -_-

[Kanami]

I say dance the Smooth Criminal Phoenix! :D

Anyways, I do see the complaint. I don't think the convo needs to be removed, and I want it to stay as it allowed a bit of exploration into Katie's backstory. I understand the support complaint, but we should seriously start getting a few C's at least! I don't care as much which way we do it, so long as it's one approved by others here as well.

Damn it snowy, as soon as I start flaming the firebird you have to end the whole thing >_<

What options have we got to choose from?

Phoenix's: PM then consolidate and post (think I was the original one to suggest this, can't remember)

Cynthia's: Work at it in game, then once it seems certain friendship has been reached we request for the support rank?

Judges

Phoenix's: Both parties, and Snowy_one's approval

Cynthia's: Some form of judge panel?

Nadeisco's: Both parties, Snowy's approval, plus two others who are not directly related

(Cynthia's isn't really Cynthia's ideas I think, I'm not sure, but either way, I think I got the point across.

[Phoenix]

Cynthia's idea is hardly different from mine minus the committee. We just disagree on the timing of the support convos thus far, I think. That's fine, but my suggestion here is to improve our methods as we go. Snowy's original plans were great but as they say "No plan survives contact with the enemy." Same holds true here. We've got to either tweak our style of rping or tweak the rules to fit with our style.

[-Cynthia-]

Relationships only count as prior friendhips if the characters knew each other prior, what you're describing is a natural inclination, which requires more time IMO. I don't really think it's fair to build uber fast supports with everyone else, jsut because your character "bonds quickly" or somesuch.

WRT arguing, juse because it isn't sunshine and rainbows doesn't mean your relationship doesn't develop. Characters can learn from each other in arguments as well as open sharing. It can also bring up questions 'why does he/she think this way?" "maybe I was wrong etc." I think you're just opposed to arguing because it ended up being finger pointing at Isotov, however it would be incredbily illogical not to finger point given the situation.

Edited May 8, 2010 by -Cynthia-

[Snowy_One]

Aye. That's kind of the reason I want Morgan and Esphyr to talk again soon.

[Balcerzak]

*sigh* Take it up with Snowy, man ... if he say no, then that means you're right. If not, I hope you'll let it go. The first three chapters of the story have been nothing but arguments and the support convos are actually helping to drag us out of the hell hole. Yes they're a little fast right now, and some of them can be disqualified I guess, but at the same time, you guys seem to think that this is how it's always going to be. There's no indication right now that there'll be any new supports from my characters this chapter, and after this, I don't plan to for another few at least. Can't risk the blow back

I understand you might be taking this situation, and the surrounding conversation as a personal attack. Don't. That's not what this is about. If anybody else had done it, I'd have acted the same way.

All I was trying to get across is that, from having skim-followed the previous flow of things, the impression I was under was that characters would interact, plot would happen, occasionally Snowy would pop up in Feedback and say 'X and Y if you want to apply for a support now, you can.' which I saw happen at least a couple of times. Now, all of a sudden with no warning, previous precedent was being set upon its head, standards appeared to have drastically lowered, and things had taken a turn for the confusing. I don't think I'm the only one who was surprised by this and caught off-guard, and other responses tend to support that view. In light of this, I laid out my understanding, as well as why I agreed with it, or thought the way I did.

I can accept if the rules are being changed. I just don't like it when they're changed without forewarning, and people are finding themselves broadsided by something unexpected. If a player-to-player based, low-level C sort of progression is what is ultimately decided on, that's OK. It's not necessarily my vision of how things work, but I can live with a consensus opinion. I would like to just offer my feedback that I see no reason why the "Support Conversations" have to appear off-set or uninterrupted as whole conversations, rather than being built up over time gradually, and would move against drafting a block-chunk in PMs between players then dumping it into the RP, however.

Here was my layout for relationship norms in a group like this:

[chart]

Thoughts on my initial progression chart? :)

I'll give it more thought. I'm not sure I can render an opinion on it just yet.

[Snowy_One]

Well then, what do the other people think as to how supports should be done?

[Phoenix]

Relationships only count as prior friendhips if the characters knew each other prior, what you're describing is a natural inclination, which requires more time IMO. I don't really think it's fair to build uber fast supports with everyone else, jsut because your character "bonds quickly" or somesuch.

WRT arguing, juse because it isn't sunshine and rainbows doesn't mean your relationship doesn't develop. Characters can learn from each other in arguments as well as open sharing. It can also bring up questions 'why does he/she think this way?" "maybe I was wrong etc." I think you're just opposed to arguing because it ended up being finger pointing at Isotov, however it would be incredbily illogical not to finger point given the situation.

When I said prior friendship, I meant they weren't friends YET. Sorry for the way I typed it.

I know about the whole arguing into friendship thing, and I'm not against it. What I was pointing out is that during these fights, all other conversations are snuffed out somehow, and then building supports the normal way is utterly impossible. If this can be avoided, then I have no problem with the groups near homicidal attitudes toward each other.

Iso's not the arguing type. He doesn't stay in convos long that are hostile. Iso wouldn't under any circumstances stand around arguing with anyone unless it was important. It never is -_-

@ Bal

I know this isn't about just me per se. I'm not really offended either. I'm just tired of quoting and posting to keep caught up with replies

How about we try letting everyone know what we're doing? We can post plan and intentions info in our profiles for reference or something. That should take care of any non-plot related surprises :D

@ Snowy

You letting us know who's ready to support is actually a good idea too, and should probably be added to what we're already doing. The PM thing should still stand though because support convos are generally long and need to be compiled.

YAY! We're making progress toward consensus! B)

[Kanami]

That's fine, but my suggestion here is to improve our methods as we go. Snowy's original plans were great but as they say "No plan survives contact with the enemy." Same holds true here. We've got to either tweak our style of rping or tweak the rules to fit with our style.

The thing is, we've made "contact with the enemy" me And it's falling apart, developing things as we go without making amendments is like telling your men to "keep at it" and hold out for reinforcements that might never come. While I think it would be highly preferable for everything to be revised now, at present, no changes have been made, no problem has been solved. So what you're essentially saying is to keep the system unchanged, and hope everything works itself out.

Have to agree on the prior friendships idea, it does seem too quick, like Isotov found his soulmate or something XD From my perspective, it looks as if you isolated Isotov from the group soley to make him build supports quickly. And as for the finger pointing, I directed it XD

I understand you might be taking this situation, and the surrounding conversation as a personal attack. Don't. That's not what this is about. If anybody else had done it, I'd have acted the same way.

Don't listen to Bal, this is personal, I told you to make war, and you tried to make peace.

I haz personal grudge against you now so expect Nady wrath in the near future.

@Snowy, main consensus, Cynthia/Bal/myself, seem to think it should be built naturally in the RP thread, opposed to PM,

[Phoenix]

The thing is, we've made "contact with the enemy" me And it's falling apart, developing things as we go without making amendments is like telling your men to "keep at it" and hold out for reinforcements that might never come. While I think it would be highly preferable for everything to be revised now, at present, no changes have been made, no problem has been solved. So what you're essentially saying is to keep the system unchanged, and hope everything works itself out.

Have to agree on the prior friendships idea, it does seem too quick, like Isotov found his soulmate or something XD From my perspective, it looks as if you isolated Isotov from the group soley to make him build supports quickly. And as for the finger pointing, I directed it XD

Don't listen to Bal, this is personal, I told you to make war, and you tried to make peace.

I haz personal grudge against you now so expect Nady wrath in the near future.

@Snowy, main consensus, Cynthia/Bal/myself, seem to think it should be built naturally in the RP thread, opposed to PM,

Umm ... what?

No no no! I meant to say that they weren't friends YET. YeeeeeeT.

Isolating Iso is a natural occurrence in his situation. Who would willing stay in the middle of these people if they don't have to?

Developing supports wasn't meant to be over PM, only the ACTUAL CONVERSATION itself. Then it was to be compiled to save space in the chapter thread.

Making improvements obviously implies amendments doesn't it? I'm not saying keep going without changes, I'm saying learn what not to do, and improve as you go. That's not even conflicting with what you were trying to say :/

[Balcerzak]

Well then, what do the other people think as to how supports should be done?

Taking a cue from 1001382[/snapback] I'm inclined to go with:

Execution: Cynthia's method

Approval: Nadesico's method

If we're to start retroactively implementing things, I strongly feel that non-involved parties compile a list of supports between characters that are not your own that you think would be reasonable to exist. Lists would be sent to Snowy where he would look to see if there seemed to be a clear trend. If a support exists, it ought to be fairly obvious to the rest of the RPers, and should be able to be pointed at and said, 'Yup, X and Y clearly have some synergy here.'

[Phoenix]

MY STANCE

So we're all clear, and there's no more confusion, here is my stance on ALL current issues.

RP Rule:

Snowy's in charge. He'll be lenient I suppose, but when a decision comes down, we should all immediately stand down and go with it. It will save us time, and keep politics out of the equation altogether. When we want to do something important or effectual, we should always go through Snowy first. A few pms every day won't kill him ... I hope not at least

Supports:

Building supports should take place in the chapter threads

The actual support convo should first be done over PM and then compiled into a single post which will then be posted in the thread at the appropriate time. Better methods should be considered and applied as necessary or as the situation changes, and with final ruling going to Snowy.

Bal's Amendment:

This could easily be used as a system to manipulate approvals(need of uninvolved party approval). I don't think outside parties should have any actual say, but rather mere input, and once again, with final approval in Snowy and involved parties' hands.

Having people confirm relationships is fine, but being able to essentially veto a support is a bit much in my opinion. I still don't like the committee idea. Just slows things down and can be used maliciously.

Iso's disposition:

This is what anyone in Iso's shoes(upbringing) would do. Distancing himself from the group, but staying close to sympathizers is a natural human trait. His approach and personality are going to stay as is.

Iso x Katie:

Not friends yet, but Iso needs those sandwiches, and Katie has benefits too apparently :/

Nady:

... ... .... *sigh* -_-

Hmm ... I thought there were more issues. Kinda feel stupid putting up that big sign now

[Inactive Account]

Crap, I go away to take a final, spend a while angsting over the class I failed, come back some six hours after my last post and OH MAN SO MUCH WHAT HAVE I MISSED.

[Balcerzak]

@ Bal

How about we try letting everyone know what we're doing? We can post plan and intentions info in our profiles for reference or something. That should take care of any non-plot related surprises :D

I dunno if that would work at all, to be honest. I tend to enjoy a lot of spontaneity. I mean, sure, I have some main goals, and some vague plans, but I try not to lock too much in.

Just as an example here, originally I wasn't planning on Tessa having much to do with Arrin at all, I'd been planning on trying to work more on something with Kelas if anything. But then it became obvious that Lacuna had something she wanted to try out, so a quick shift was made. And all of this happened solely through cues picked up in-game; we've never sent each other PMs about it, or posted profile comments, or whatever.

Now I'm not saying this is the only way to do things, by any means. I know when I was a lot less experienced at text RP, I was always nervous about how I should be interacting with others, and would often contact privately for approval saying "I'm thinking of doing this, is that okay?" But that seemed to actually throw them off more than anything, and one even asked if I was irritated with her. Also, perhaps you've noticed, but I tend to be very hands-off as far as actively using other characters in my own posts aside from the lowest level basic and obvious reactions. This is probably still some carry-over as I'm still my no means entirely comfortable taking charge of someone else and controlling them, though I probably shouldn't be as reserved as I am.

...that was actually an off-topic ramble, but where was I?

Oh yeah. I'm not sure I really think it's necessarily a good idea. Also profiles are scattered across the info topic, and people may not update them as situations change, nor remember to frequently check the profiles of others for developing situations either. I dunno. I mean on the one hand, there's some potential there, but on the other hand, I'm not really sure it's needed, and much of it should be able to be broadcast during the normal course of events.

[Phoenix]

Crap, I go away to take a final, spend a while angsting over the class I failed, come back some six hours after my last post and OH MAN SO MUCH WHAT HAVE I MISSED.

LEGION: We are building a concensus. Please try again later.

@ Bal

What I mean by posting plans is simply posting need to know information about things like impending events and current support goals(not necessarily going to happen) only.

It's just an idea to keep people from charging around blindly into other people's agendas and getting us bogged down in retconning.

Edited May 8, 2010 by Phoenix

[Snowy_One]

I'm gonna head to bed early. Come tomorrow, I will make a choice. And I believe there will be a second wave, but I want Tessa to do a bit of healing before it hits.

[Snike]

Depending on the amount of chapters, maybe we can slow the supports to be one a chapter between characters? That way, S-rank isn't too early on in the story. As for the ideas, I like Cynthia's idea of developing it in-story, but also Nadesico's idea of both participants, Snowy AND two others. It helps keep balance.

[Kanami]

Phoenix is gay, Phoenix is scatter brained, Phoneix is... umm err (enter insult here)

*Is going to put personal agenda aside for a bit*

You say you want to make amendments as we learn "What not to do"

Well we've tried it and the reason this discussion even exists is because some people have an opinion of what "not to do"

So rushing off, and saying we'll fix them as they come, doesn't make any sense, since they've already "come"

Hehe someone's come'd

Now I is confused on this point

Umm ... what?

No no no! I meant to say that they weren't friends YET. YeeeeeeT.

Vs

Convos: First encounters where interest is established

Support C: Get to know you/Friendship

You've attained a C? You have a friendship, but aren't friends?

Snowy's in charge. He'll be lenient I suppose, but when a decision comes down, we should all immediately stand down and go with it.

I refuse, I'm the type who'll continue arguing until my point either gets across, or my opposition lines up a good enough reason to go with their stance. My father takes the "Because I say so" stance, and I've smacked him in the face more then once for it. And gotten in a world of trouble.

Supports:

I disagree, it feels unnatural, and wierd with the consolidated post, if it was like Iso/Irina where they move away from the group and communicate, I can understand, but as far as I can tell, I just heard the conversation between you two as well, does that mean I get a C with Katie/Iso? There are times when it's possible, (Eg: Splitting off from the group when searching for Isotov and searching in pairs, heading back to your inn room and talking there etc) I'm not too against posting bulk, but the conversation between Iso and Katie seemed to be... timed very poorly. And I've said this above, but frankly it's like you've been planning Iso/Katie from the sandwich scene, so I disagree with their being no indication, since there was evidence of you trying for one prior. Whether it's worth a C though is another issue. I mean, she's given you a sandwich and you're sharing deep dark secrets, is Katie willing to advertise her sob story in bright neon lights? I felt this was a fault on Katie's (Snowy's) behalf then yours though.

Bal's Amendment:

Frankly, the only valid point I see is that it's an extra obstacle (slow things down) but as Bal(I think) said, a support relation should be obvious for people to see.

I find it hard to believe it'd be used maliciously, since it's not set (Eg a panel of judges) but simply two supporters, if you can't find two people who agree with the support out of the 6 or so players (since 2-Snowy are excluded) then chances are, it shouldn't be happening, or people really hate you. (This one's sure to bite me)

Iso's disposition:

Your character, your choice, however I don't see any chance of him being integrated into the group properly if he's going to take such a stance and personally think his attitude of "Don't like, don't interact with" is rather annoying, and hinders character interaction. I don't know if you did it intentionally, or if it was a coincidence, but removing Irina and Isotov away from the plot (arguments on what should be done after the border town exit) was rather.... counter-productive to character relations. And Isotovs "It's my fault" acceptance, yet failing to do anything to compensate is, kind of portrays him as a liar in my eyes. Irina's don't point the finger makes no sense either, since as Cynthia said, it's clearly his fault, pointing the finger seems only natural. It would have worked had she gotten angry, but again Isotov intervenes and breaks off any character interaction. For some reason I feel as if you're putting too much focus on Isotov and not enough on Irina (Eg: Kamilla recruitment, apparently Irina was standing there watching while the whole thing played out, and didn't utter a word, but Isotov was down stairs hitting on Katie.

@Nady: ... ... .... *sigh* -_-

Keeping sighing boy, I haven't even started with you yet! XD

@Lacuna: Blazing hell! XD

Edited May 8, 2010 by Nadesico

[Balcerzak]

Crap, I go away to take a final, spend a while angsting over the class I failed, come back some six hours after my last post and OH MAN SO MUCH WHAT HAVE I MISSED.

Oh man, bombing tests is never fun. Especially finals. *hug*

Lucky for you, most of the activity has been here in Feedback. (I've been pretty much deliberately holding back on posting anything in the thread until combat issues were resolved [Rolling others or not?], and then by the time that was settled, everybody who hadn't held back had already killed everything.)

I'm gonna head to bed early. Come tomorrow, I will make a choice. And I believe there will be a second wave, but I want Tessa to do a bit of healing before it hits.

Oh, yeah. I guess I probably can and should fit in some healing soon. Also, clarification as far as characters reduced to 0 and healing goes? Obviously they're not dead, because dying sucks and all, but they are knocked out, and a heal will not bounce them back up and into the fight, correct. (This seems the only logical stance, IMO.)

This is kind of awkward, though, as it splits making decisions on who to heal into two categories:

1) Who can contribute to finishing the fight.

2) Storywise you need to tend to the grievously wounded so they don't die.

So, I guess, while tactically unwise, I'll probably be trying to follow #2.

[-Cynthia-]

I like Nady's suggestion as well, if you can find two people in agreement then it probably has enough evidence to make sense.

I think you end up fixing the grievously wounded after battle anyway, I think you can use your turn to heal someone conscious.

Edited May 8, 2010 by -Cynthia-

[Phoenix]

Phoenix is awesom, Phoenix is a genius, Phoneix is... umm err (enter dirty comment here)

*Is going to put feelings aside for a bit*

You say you want to make amendments as we learn "What not to do"

Well we've tried it and the reason this discussion even exists is because some people have an opinion of what "not to do"

So rushing off, and saying we'll fix them as they come, doesn't make any sense, since they've already "come"

Hehe someone's come'd

It works like this. We find a problem. We bring it up here. We toss out ideas until Snowy accepts one, then we get back to the rp. Simple.

Now I is confused on this point

Vs

You've attained a C? You have a friendship, but aren't friends?

Read the chart again "/" this separates two different kinds of relationships. The one on the left says "Getting to know you"(Not friends yet). Get it?

I refuse, I'm the type who'll continue arguing until my point either gets across, or my opposition lines up a good enough reason to go with their stance. My father takes the "Because I say so" stance, and I've smacked him in the face more then once for it. And gotten in a world of trouble.

Well then I guess that makes you a democrat.

Supports:

I disagree, it feels unnatural, and wierd with the consolidated post, if it was like Iso/Irina where they move away from the group and communicate, I can understand, but as far as I can tell, I just heard the conversation between you two as well, does that mean I get a C with Katie/Iso? There are times when it's possible, (Eg: Splitting off from the group when searching for Isotov and searching in pairs, heading back to your inn room and talking there etc) I'm not too against posting bulk, but the conversation between Iso and Katie seemed to be... timed very poorly. And I've said this above, but frankly it's like you've been planning Iso/Katie from the sandwich scene, so I disagree with their being no indication, since there was evidence of you trying for one prior. Whether it's worth a C though is another issue. I mean, she's given you a sandwich and you're sharing deep dark secrets, is Katie willing to advertise her sob story in bright neon lights? I felt this was a fault on Katie's (Snowy's) behalf then yours though.

Katie shared her "dark secrets" with the whole bloody group before the support even started! >_<

Now the play tea thing ... that was epic. She shared that with Iso because she needs someone to talk to. A lot of women do this ... and I mean A LOT

Yeah I was planning, but my support building plans thus far have all been foiled. Nothing stopping that from continuing actually

So far splitting off from the group seems to be the only possible way to build support other than arguing directly with someone, but even that can be foiled by group wide scuffles.

Bal's Amendment:

Frankly, the only valid point I see is that it's an extra obstacle (slow things down) but as Bal(I think) said, a support relation should be obvious for people to see.

I find it hard to believe it'd be used maliciously, since it's not set (Eg a panel of judges) but simply two supporters, if you can't find two people who agree with the support out of the 6 or so players (since 2-Snowy are excluded) then chances are, it shouldn't be happening, or people really hate you. (This one's sure to bite me)

Refine it anyway. It can't hurt. If Snowy approves then what does it matter? We'll use that system, and go about our business. That was just my feelings on the subject.

Iso's disposition:

Your character, your choice, however I don't see any chance of him being integrated into the group properly if he's going to take such a stance and personally think his attitude of "Don't like, don't interact with" is rather annoying, and hinders character interaction. I don't know if you did it intentionally, or if it was a coincidence, but removing Irina and Isotov away from the plot (arguments on what should be done after the border town exit) was rather.... counter-productive to character relations. And Isotovs "It's my fault" acceptance, yet failing to do anything to compensate is, kind of portrays him as a liar in my eyes. Irina's don't point the finger makes no sense either, since as Cynthia said, it's clearly his fault, pointing the finger seems only natural. It would have worked had she gotten angry, but again Isotov intervenes and breaks off any character interaction. For some reason I feel as if you're putting too much focus on Isotov and not enough on Irina (Eg: Kamilla recruitment, apparently Irina was standing there watching while the whole thing played out, and didn't utter a word, but Isotov was down stairs hitting on Katie.

He was hitting on the sandwiches. Katie's antics are a bonus

Irina was basically hired by Morgan, and she doesn't like arguing any more than Iso does. Having her voice her opinion about Kamilla didn't seem appropriate at the time.

I have my own integration plan, and it will work as long as everyone plays along. I have to wait until about another week passes though.(story week)

Iso is the kind of person who has lived through so much, that he would rather be dead than to be in his current situation. He's too tired to care what people think of him, and he's not interested in bonding with anyone that has attacked him thus far. He'll even accept blame if it will pipe someone down. That's only natural. Also, it really isn't his fault if you read the IsoxIrina support convo. That's the situation. It CANNOT change until after my plot event occurs.

Keeping sighing boy, I haven't even started with you yet! XD

@Lacuna: Blazing hell! XD

Edited May 8, 2010 by Phoenix

[Kanami]

I actually enjoyed reading Bal's example with Tessa and Arrin (+Kelas)

It's a prime example of natural flow vs Bulk dumping of information.

Snike, despite being new, may have a point there, a character shouldn't be achieving several supports in the course of one chapter, (developing sure, no problem) An obvious note to make here is that supports don't carry over, (AKA: I didn't have a support in chapter 1~3 so I can have 4 supports in this chapter right? Wrong! <_<)

Technically, Isotov hasn't even known Katie for 24 hours yet. Mind you, they slept in that 24 hour period, and didn't exactly spend most of the time awake together either.

Support developing started with the sandwich basket, and by afternoon you've already developed the support. A bit quick don't you think?

Just to be clear with the two "independants" their response should be

"Yeah they should have a support"

Not

"yeah, whatever, I'll support it"

Though it won't be enforced, if you're unsure then chances are it shouldn't be approved (by that individual)

Fortunately in this group, we don't have major friendship networks for this to become biased "Yeah my friends support me no matter what" so theoretically, it should work.

Speaking of healing, the issue of multiple kills has gone out the window, (Eg Bals player/enemy phase comments, and the overall issue with 2~3 people taking 90% of the kills)

Probably should consolidate a final post for Snowy to read, instead these past.... 3 pages+ or discussion.

Addition: Response to Phoenix's latest post.

We've found a problem, and are discussing it now? I don't know where you're trying to go here, you're saying we discuss problems when we come across them, yet don't seem to acknowledge we've come across one (or several) and hence the point of this discussion.

Chart:

Makes no sense, one side says friends, the other say Getting to know, there's a distinct difference between the two, and frankly Kamilla's getting to know everyone right now (and not liking them) does that mean C with me and everyone else?

What doesn't make sense is you're using the support conversation (which occurs after support points are adequate) to validate the "getting to know part."

The support conversation shouldn't add to your support points, you should have "gotten to know her" before the support was achieved.

Democrat: Anarchist, same thing in my eyes.

Supports: See first paragraph

Refine: Not liking this, "leave everything to Snowy" attitude, it's like watching someone who can't speak for themselves, or make decsision or contribute to a mature discussion.

Iso Disposition: It's his fault from everyones perspective, and his inability to control Proxima is his problem. If he decides to keep his lack of control quiet, then finger pointing is inevitable and hence it "IS" his fault. Again, it's your character, but I'm going to have to ignore your "Don't disturb this" messages if you're going to be counter-productive to the general improvement of the group, since at the moment, I'd diagnose you as ill, suffering from "I love my characters too much"

Overall, you seem to have developed plans and refuse to alter them unless Snowy tells you that it doesn't fit with the world, as said prior, this will feel extremely unnatural. (Even snowy adapts, eg Criminal status)