Lord of Azure Flame: Chat

[Ether]

And that is where the difference between our world and an RP world, as well as Damian and other noble-types, comes into play.

For one, as evidenced in troops, etc, women hold a higher place in RP society than in medieval Europe, or what have you. Men still have more power in this setting, but not to the extent of our own history.

This discourages multiple wives for the sole purpose of more kids and more people to make sandwiches.

As well, Damian isn't haughty, like most nobility. He was raised as a fighter from a young age, so he never indulged in the posh lifestyle or environment. He doesn't see others as lesser than him as nobility often do.

And here lies the crux of it. While a noble sees no need to "love" something he views as a tool(and it was mostly nobility who partook in polygamy, as poorer folk couldn't support that many people), Damian doesn't view Aiya and Esphyr as tools for children as prestige, he looks at them as two people he cares for.

[Inactive Account]

No current supports in position to update, then?

[-Cynthia-]

You make good points of why multiple wives shouldn't exist given the setting. So...why does a nation have polygamy then? Nations don't just arbitrarily develop marriage policies that don't make sense.

[Psych]

Nope. :/

Pary hasn't talked to Charlotte since she came back, I don't think. Viveka isn't there yet.

Cess and Rita might be going if I decide to get them to talk about something. They'll probably go quicker than others, but I gotta work on that.

And Rita and Eric haven't done much lately either, Kelas is , and Iso is :/

[Ansem]

Eh. I was hoping you were gonna be more hostile about it. I was wrong.

Anyways the whole DamianXAiyaXEsphyr is a whole train wreck. I would ask if you would except another person into a relationship but i know the answer.

And here lies the crux of it. While a noble sees no need to "love" something he views as a tool(and it was mostly nobility who partook in polygamy, as poorer folk couldn't support that many people), Damian doesn't view Aiya and Esphyr as tools for children as prestige, he looks at them as two people he cares for.

A noble sees no need to love? Where did you hear that?

And Damian isnt the issue. He will forever remain a failure next to Helios. Its Aiya. She is practically his slave. Sure Damian saved her from some butcher guy that was gonna kill her but for fucks sake let me ask the question that has been on everyones mind at one point of time.

Does Aiya have a fucking conscious?

@ Purg: Then Stfu kindly.

@ Cynthia: Because Snowy is a lousy mod and handwaved it like he did to everything else.

Goddamn has anyone kept count on how many times we argue about this?

[Phoenix]

Irina has a lot more support options. There both Wyvern riders? Arrin is a mage! Helios is a mage! Dani is a goddamn mage! DO they have supports with each other? No. They rarely interact with each other too. That one time they rode together was the only thing that was taken into account.

You haven't given me even one logical reason to consider abandoning the support. Come back when you do.

@ Helios: I dont give a fuck if you havent gotten it through your thick skull yet. He will never have any support options unless i make one. One of the reasons is because he is ignored. I dont care about this much either because it will make little or no difference.

Actually Helios is mostly ignored because he's horribly portrayed. Half the time you're using him as an OOC plot device, and the other half, you're using him to talk to people like Morgan, who are only good for maybe one or two replies. Think about it. Is it not your fault that you're either dicking around with him or making bad interaction choices? Hell, sometimes you have Helios run off to be on his own at the perfect opportunity for interactions.

Lastly I wasn't bringing any of this up to suggest supporting Helios with anyone. I honestly don't care. I'm simply saying that it's all on your head. People ignoring Helios is 100% based on how he's been presented. It takes time to fix screw ups like that.

[Snowy_One]

Erm, no I didn't actually. I gave a reason. I can't help it if you were too ignorant to actually read it.

Edit: This may also sound shocking, but the idea of one man/one woman is NOT a old idea. It's actually fairly recent and started with the Reformation and took off with the colonial period. Before then, quite a few cultures had them, but only a noble could support more than one wife. Granted, a common side effect was that one woman would be favored over the other, causing problems, and Esphyr more or less has been voicing that exact problem! King Solomon from biblical times had so many wives and concubines that he could have had a threesome every day of the year and not have had to deal with the same woman twice. The simple fact is that polygamy DOES work.

Cynthia is not incorrect either. When it happened, women had a lot less rights as well. With the rise of woman's rights, polygamy suffered a sever blow. However, this is something key to remember. While the world is more or less liberal in rights, sexism exists still. This is not our world. The question that should be asked is not 'why does Halton allow marriage' but rather 'why do you think the other nations don't?'

Edited August 10, 2010 by Snowy_One

[Ansem]

Erm, no I didn't actually. I gave a reason. I can't help it if you were too ignorant to actually read it.

Im not Bal. I dont remember a quote from page X when we are on page 1116

Post it again.

Actually Helios is mostly ignored because he's horribly portrayed. Half the time you're using him as an OOC plot device, and the other half, you're using him to talk to people like Morgan, who are only good for maybe one or two replies. Think about it. Is it not your fault that you're either dicking around with him or making bad interaction choices? Hell, sometimes you have Helios run off to be on his own at the perfect opportunity for interactions.

Lastly I wasn't bringing any of this up to suggest supporting Helios with anyone. I honestly don't care. I'm simply saying that it's all on your head. People ignoring Helios is 100% based on how he's been presented. It takes time to fix screw ups like that.

Time that wont even last as long as this RP. I cant believe i havent said this before. This could have been used in so many arguments.

Personality: Prime example of a person who does not speak unless spoken too. Helios is a very silent person. He is a very calm and social person. he finds it easier to do stuff himself then recieve help.

He is in character.

....

Damn i lost what episode i was on. Rangiku was asking Toshiro about the new captain. What episode is that?

Edited August 10, 2010 by Solf J. Kimblee

[Phoenix]

Personality: Prime example of a person who does not speak unless spoken too. Helios is a very silent person. He is a very calm and social person. he finds it easier to do stuff himself then recieve help.

He is in character.

A silent social person? Dude, Helios never shuts the hell up, what part of that is in character? You're blaming this on him being in character when you never stick to that anyway. No, sir, I call bullsh*t XD

[Ansem]

Again? You said it yourself and yet you need me to remind you?

Damian: Is not that great with the ladies

Iso: Is not that great at blowing sh*t up

Arrin: Is not that hungry

Helios: Is not that annoying

Eric: Is not that unlucky (for f*ck sake, he was revived)

About that Bleach episode.....

Edited August 10, 2010 by Solf J. Kimblee

[Ether]

I didn't say they saw no need to love, just that they saw no need to love a tool. If someone views something as a tool to gain power, they have no reason to love that tool.

And when has Aiya acted like a slave? If anything, Damian has tended to her more than she has tended to him. Yes, she has her own thoughts, and I'm trying to branch her out, but I can't do it all at once. Give it some time.

As for Cynthia's point, there are still plenty of jerkass nobles who will take multiple wives for prestige, etc. It's just that more often than in our own history, the women actually have a say in different things, and it is more common for love to actually be shared.

They are different, but not implausible. As for why Halton would allow it, there are enough people who would still partake in it, especially in the upper classes, that there is a strong pull for it to be allowed, with no real benefit for the emperor in outlawing it. People do do it, it doesn't really harm anyone, since most of the women involved either are given compensation of some kind( you are technically nobility, and don't need to die in the plague because you aren't living in the slums anymore), or are assertive enough that they avoid it, and while some people disagree with the concept, there aren't uprisings over something like that, so there would be no reason in outlawing it.

[Ansem]

And when has Aiya acted like a slave? If anything, Damian has tended to her more than she has tended to him. Yes, she has her own thoughts, and I'm trying to branch her out, but I can't do it all at once. Give it some time.

I lol'd

Give it time. Im sorry i think i have. The words "Give it time" is a sign of weakness. It will never happen. I wont be appeased until Damian only has one women, not two. Something i am positive you will never go for.

Im serious about that bleach episode though....

[Phoenix]

@ Helios

He's not that annoying. He's also not in character half the time according to your own quote.

[Ether]

Sorry that I don't RP to please Kai. I RP to have fun, which is why I don't get all of these nitpicks people make, where they bring up something over and over again. Is it that significant? Are you losing sleep at night over the fact that polygamy =/= Banhammer'd? If so, I think you need to get yourself checked first of all, and second, you really need to chill.

[Ansem]

How can he be out of character when he has none? :/

IDK man. Character means nothing. He can do anything he wants. You know those manipulative people that hide behind a weak person image?

....

They turn me on.....

@ Ether: Above means nothing to you?

Not to mention, "You need to chill" Is also a sign of weakness too.

Edited August 10, 2010 by Solf J. Kimblee

[Phoenix]

How can he be out of character when he has none? :/

IDK man. Character means nothing. He can do anything he wants. You know those manipulative people that hide behind a weak person image?

....

They turn me on.....

Yeah, this is where the problem lies. It's almost like you want Ian and Mark back or something, because Helios has at least three different personalities. I recommend either finding a balance(giving Helios one personality), or adding yourself a second character(which should balance Helios out in theory).

Also ... what the hell was that?

Edited August 10, 2010 by Phoenix

[Ansem]

I strayed from the topic....... I couldnt hold it in. Now i forgot the point i wanted to make.....

[Snowy_One]

Actually, you do need to chill. When I made these nations, I tried to make them at least semi-accurate to the time frame that was going on (yes, the medival era had a form of credit cards. Very different from what we know today, but they still had them. I'd rather not waste a post right now for other reasons). While things are FAR from perfect, they are still good. Besides, polygamy is still around today (though in a much more diluted and weaker form).

Anyways, I need to go out right now to handle some things. BBS.

[Purg]

Polygamy bad, Kai/Helios good?

[Ansem]

Polygamy bad, Kai/Helios good?

No Kai/Helios bad. Purg needs to GTFO

@ Snowy: This again?

Not to mention, "You need to chill" Is also a sign of weakness too.

BBL. Watching bleach. Enjoy the quiet while im gone.

Edited August 11, 2010 by Solf J. Kimblee

[Phoenix]

Ummm "GTFO" is a sign of weakness, Kai ...

[-Cynthia-]

.

Edit: This may also sound shocking, but the idea of one man/one woman is NOT a old idea. It's actually fairly recent and started with the Reformation and took off with the colonial period. Before then, quite a few cultures had them, but only a noble could support more than one wife. Granted, a common side effect was that one woman would be favored over the other, causing problems, and Esphyr more or less has been voicing that exact problem! King Solomon from biblical times had so many wives and concubines that he could have had a threesome every day of the year and not have had to deal with the same woman twice. The simple fact is that polygamy DOES work.

It's not the issue of polygamy not working, but it's not working like any historical examples, which I dislike.

Also, historical failure here. For example, the Roman Empire (which Halton is supposedly based on btw) was historically monogamous. The Roman Empire obviously predates the Reformation.

[Phoenix]

Funny how Kai's old argument is suddenly valid again.

[Ansem]

Ummm "GTFO" is a sign of weakness, Kai ...

Telling the person who is instigating/getting in the way/fucking around isnt.

Anyways really glad that Rukia doesnt have feelings for Ichigo.

My old point was handwaved by mister lousy mod. Maybe if Cynthia revives it, Snowy will listen.

[Phoenix]

*goes off to do a Bal*

Here it is, though Kiryn shot it to pieces in like two seconds.

Hey Ether. Think of it as payback for all those disgusting posts last chapter

Halton: Possibly the strongest nation in military might, Halton is a calm, overall simple nation to live in. It is a simple nation overall, with little going on... except for a seeming thirst for more land. Currently subdued, it constantly craves smaller nations, though it doesn't always take them by force. It isn't evil, mean, or nasty about it; just desiring to constantly grow. RL equivalent: Rome

Source

The Roman Catholic Church clearly condemns polygamy; the Catechism of the Catholic Church lists it in paragraph 2387 under the head "Other offenses against the dignity of marriage" and states that it "is not in accord with the moral law." Also in paragraph 1645 under the head "The Goods and Requirements of Conjugal Love" states "The unity of marriage, distinctly recognized by our Lord, is made clear in the equal personal dignity which must be accorded to man and wife in mutual and unreserved affection. Polygamy is contrary to conjugal love which is undivided and exclusive."

Eh, never mind. It's not actually that valid since the entire focus is on religion.