Furetchen's Highly Opinionated and Probably Inaccurate Ratings

[Scarlet]

Yeah, Neimi is certainly better than a 3.5. Really. I mean, yes, her start does suck; but it wears off surprisingly quickly. She starts out with "only" 6 Spd, but she has a freaking 60% Spd growth and a good Exp gain despite not having an enemy phase. Actually, all her offensive growths are quite good - 45% Str, 50% Skl, 60% Spd and 50% Luk (well, luck isn't exactly offensive, but whatever) to top it off aren't bad by any means; so if you level up, her offense on player phase is actually going to be pretty epic. She can even OHKO all those flying annoyances that like to appear in large numbers in mid-game, namely wyverns, pegasus knights and gargoyles.

And really, promoting her also solves her biggest problem, being that she's locked to bows - she can just become a ranger to get an amazing horse and swords, which means - ZOMG SHE SUDDENLY HAS ENEMY PHASE. She can maul something in player phase with her bows and then just have some other dude trade her a sword into the first slot to allow her to counter in Enemy Phase.

She only has D swords upon promotion, but really, if you use her seriously, that rises so fast it's not going to be too much of an issue; she only needs 40 WExp to raise it to C, which means killing edges, and killing edges are all she really wants for a good enemy phase.

I generally find Neimi to be underappreciated, actually. While she does start out bad, so do many other units in earlygame, but she improves quickly. She's worse than the mages offensively, but better durability-wise because she has a higher Avd growth (actually one of the highest in the game) than them and can get WTA against axes after promotion for even better durability.

[Integrity]

What the hell?

Neimi has support?

By people who aren't me?

My life was just validated.

[Rewjeo]

Lute only has Player Phase as well, since her Enemy Phase sucks forever. Same for Artur. Are Lute and Artur going to be levels 9 and 10 in Chapter 11? Unless you want to glue Moulder to them and throw them into groups of enemies, their enemy phase doesn't exist either. Lute's player pase isn't knocking anyone down either until Lute/Artur gets going.

They DO have an enemy phase. They have 1-range and aren't OHKOd. It isn't much, but it's better than Neimi's. They also get more EXP thanks to better offense against most enemies. Neimi wins against, like, mages, who she doesn't want to fight anyways. They win with everything else (well, soldiers take a few chapters, but...) and ALSO can potentially attack twice as often. That means they'll grow a lot faster.

Edited April 19, 2010 by Slize

[Scarlet]

Neimi wins against, like, mages, who she doesn't want to fight anyways.

Longbows exist. She can just grab one and laugh at the mage because it can't counter her despite having 1-2 range. With the exception of Innes, nobody else can do this unless you count busting out Bolting, of which you only get one (and only very late as well; chapter 19 IIRC), and the only potential competition she has for longbows is, like, Innes.

Edited April 19, 2010 by Raymond

[Anouleth]

They DO have an enemy phase. They have 1-range and aren't OHKOd. It isn't much, but it's better than Neimi's. They also get more EXP thanks to better offense against most enemies. Neimi wins against, like, mages, who she doesn't want to fight anyways. They win with everything else (well, soldiers take a few chapters, but...) and ALSO can potentially attack twice as often. That means they'll grow a lot faster.

Sure, if you don't mind gluing Moulder permanently to Lute she can fight 1 enemy per turn on enemy phase, but why should I constantly heal her just so she can beat Neimi? As long as Lute gets to have her own personal priest, well, I can give Neimi her own personal Garcia to weaken stuff so she can kill, so even if Neimi only attacks once a turn she can always kill. Best thing is that Moulder > Garcia by a wide margin, so when Lute is hogging the attention of a Top Tier Neimi just hogs the attention of a Lower-mid Tier

[dondon151]

You don't have to "glue" a healer to a mage for the mage to function on enemy phase. You don't have to assume that the mage will be facing multiple consecutive enemy phases. Remember what we assumed about the tier player not shooting himself in the foot?

[Anouleth]

If Lute is attacking 'twice as often' as Neimi, that implies that she does face consecutive enemy phases. I know that she can take the odd attack and counter, which is an advantage since it's a bit more efficient to expose her on enemy phase, but to claim that Lute is attacking twice as often as Neimi is wrong.

[dondon151]

OK, so she isn't attacking twice as often, but she's still gaining EXP faster.

[Anouleth]

Maybe she'd have a single level over Neimi, but I can't see any more. I suppose that Lute's inferior speed is enough motivation to feed her more experience to get her doubling earlier, but there's also motivation to feed Neimi exp so she can double with Steel.

And eventually it's an irrelevant question because Neimi will get Swords.

[dondon151]

She gets D swords upon promotion. I suppose having access to Steel Swords is better than being locked to Iron Swords, but I honestly don't see much use for swords for Neimi. It helps on enemy phase against enemies locked to 1 range, but it's bad enough that I'd rather just not have Neimi participate on enemy phase at all. I'd only go ranger for the extra movement.

[Anouleth]

So when Neimi only has 2-range, it's a flaw and she'll get less exp because of it because most enemies are 1-range, but when she gets 1-range weapons it's not much use and not worth going Ranger for because most enemies aren't 1-range?

[Scarlet]

She gets D swords upon promotion. I suppose having access to Steel Swords is better than being locked to Iron Swords, but I honestly don't see much use for swords for Neimi. It helps on enemy phase against enemies locked to 1 range, but it's bad enough that I'd rather just not have Neimi participate on enemy phase at all.

For all I care, if a steel sword isn't enough, give her an iron blade. It weighs her down a lot, but she has enough Spd to not care about it much against anything that isn't ridiculously fast to begin with (like Mauthe Doogs or Myrmidons, but those aren't even exactly common in FE8), and it also halves the amount of time Neimi needs to get to C swords.

Also, she has about 15 Str after promotion. That's 23 Atk with a steel sword, or 24 with an iron blade. Then add anything to that she gets from supports, and she even has two full Atk ones (Colm is Fire x Light, Garcia is Fire x Fire). She can easily get 4 more Atk from her supports, making that 27/28 Atk. Hell, that's quite exactly as much as Hero!Gerik will have right after promotion with an iron axe. Unless you'd call Gerik's offense bad, Neimi's offense with a sword certainly isn't either - especially once she does get killing edges, as she also has a lot of support options that give her full Crt (all her supports except the one with Artur).

[Integrity]

Way I see it, promoted!Neimi is a rather good unit. 8+, probably. She's just weighed down by the time before the promotion. Rather like L'Arachel in that debate I'm not getting to. >>

How much do you penalize her for having a poor early-game? Obviously she gets points for guaranteed supporting of Colm who will be deployed most of the maps forever, but...

[Rewjeo]

Thanks for ignoring "can potentially" there. That means something very different from "will always without a doubt be entering combat twice as often and will never ever dodge". And if you're going to say "she can promote later" then she has to deal with her sucking for longer.

Note: I DO think she should go Ranger ASAP. I think what dondon's saying is that D swords isn't all that good, but it's a lot better than only bows.

Edit: Also, 12/1 Neimi only has 20 ATK with an Iron Blade. With 9-10 AS. She probably has 3 at best from supports, maybe 4 ATK. Thats 24 ATK and 10 AS at best. Supportless 13/0 Franz (Hey, he only got one more level than her!) with an Iron Blade has 10.5 AS (.9 more than her) and 21 ATK. C Forde/C Seth gives him 24 ATK. Of course, she's on a horse, Colm's a thief, and Garcia could easily not be in play. So it could turn into a 4 ATK advantage for him as well as his 1 AS advantage. And this is with levels way skewed in her favor.

Edited April 19, 2010 by Slize

[Anouleth]

Thanks for ignoring "can potentially" there. That means something very different from "will always without a doubt be entering combat twice as often and will never ever dodge". And if you're going to say "she can promote later" then she has to deal with her sucking for longer.

A potential that will never happen is pretty worthless. Neimi is potentially really good, but it's clear that her earlygame performance hinders her.

Note: I DO think she should go Ranger ASAP. I think what dondon's saying is that D swords isn't all that good, but it's a lot better than only bows.

D Swords is quite good. At least, I see no reason for Neimi to prefer any Bow except Nidhogg over the Killing Edge.

I may be in the wrong here, though. Neimi's strength is very underwhelming... and her speed lead over Lute is very narrow for a while. Looking quickly over chapter 8, Neimi is 1-rounding mages and shamans and Soldiers, while Lute can 1-round the Archers, Knights and Soldiers. I guess Neimi might eventually start doubling enough that she has an advantage, but Lute's magic goes up so fast and there are some enemies she'll never beat Lute on, like Armours or Cavaliers. So I guess their situations aren't really comparable.

Oh, and the 3.5 score is fine, somebody needs to get the low scores and it should probably be Neimi.

[Parrhesia]

*Looks shellshocked*

Arright, who next?

[BK-201]

Uh.... Colm

[dondon151]

So when Neimi only has 2-range, it's a flaw and she'll get less exp because of it because most enemies are 1-range, but when she gets 1-range weapons it's not much use and not worth going Ranger for because most enemies aren't 1-range?

Slize got it mostly right. The problem with having bows and swords is that you're still range locked, which is still not good for enemy phase. Enemies will attack range-locked units over non range-locked units, and the simple fact is that having Neimi participate in an enemy phase and diverting 2-range attackers as well as 1-range attackers is worse than having Ross do the same with Hand Axe equipped (all other parameters equal).

[Parrhesia]

COLM

Colm is like Matthew, but better in combat in every way. Colm is surprisingly strong for a thief, with good Luck and still manages to cap Speed handily before 20/0. Also, Colm can become a Rogue. Also, this game's Legault wannabe sucks.

He also steals very valuable things. MANY valuable things. He'll be your primary chest opener and has the best chance of taking things in the desert level. And can steal. He also has Light affinity and great supports. At promotion he has the choice of occasional instadeath against those who...don't really need to be instadeathed, or he can go Rogue, which has no downsides and looks cooler. Go Rogue, because then you can lug around more Vulneraries instead of 'picks. Either way, he can definitely fight by then, despite being locked to swords. He'll double anything. He should kill most things with Steels and Lancereavers. He's not a killing machine, but damn can he fight.

Yeah, I know I've been kinda longwinded about the others, but really, Colm steals everything for 60% of the game, is probably stealing everything for the other 40% of the game, AND he's good at fighting. So yeah.

For saving me time writing a longer review, Colm gets a

9.5/10

[Parrhesia]

And I still need someone to rate next.

[Rewjeo]

Knoll. I wanna see how this one goes.

[Parrhesia]

Knoll sucks.

[/thread]

Okay, seriously, I'm gonna have to bring my full analyst to bear on this guy. First, he's your best non-hacked Dark Magic user out of two, but Dark Magic's mediocre beyond Flux now that Luna's nerfed. Anything that touches him will cause death. I'm not joking. He has 22 HP, 2 Def and NO luck at base and with stats like those he ain't getting that far BEYOND base. And he's level 10. Gerik showed us what a level 10 should be like. Knoll showed us why that is so.

His level is a mixed blessing. On one hand he has terrible bases (as well as the aforementioned loldefences, he got 13/9/8 in the offensive department). However, he can earlypromote, preferably to Summoner, where he... well, he can use his only non-Res good stat to heal things and summon meatshields that won't be all that useful but can at least whittle things down a slight.

The pain continues. He has Dark affinity, and nobody wants him except maybe Natasha, which is his fastest support at 10+2. His growths are nothing special, apart from 10% Def growth. And he has competition. LOTS of competition. And they're all better than him. If you need a mage, turn to ANYONE WHO ISN'T KNOLL OR EWAN. PLEASE.

You know, in the Moulder review, when I was talkin' about people who might get tomes and staves before him? And I sarcastically mentioned Ewan? I don't think I mentioned Knoll. This review should tell you why, as well as his rating of

2.5/10

ARRIGHT who's next?!

[Junkhead]

Very good.

Now...try...GARcia.

[Parrhesia]

GARCIA

Garcia is a straightforward character who is really easy to review. This is a relief.

He starts off awesome, with C Axes and a solid 8/8/7 in the offensive department, with 28 HP. And he's level 4. The Marcus effect hasn't hit him all that hard. He's mostly fighting axemen, then monsters and soldiers later on, so he's not screwed by the weapon triangle, like say Vanessa is. His growths are good, if a little cripplingly overspecialised. His HP is massive, as is his strength, but he pays for it with a 20% speed growth. So he may actually be doubled. *GASP* Still, he's got enough durability to shrug it off.

He has a really fast FireXFire with the only plausible trainee, Ross, and three other good supports with Dozla, Seth, Gilliam and Neimi...granted, Neimi isn't exactly a stellar character, Dozla at average support speed is a stretch, and Seth doesn't want him, but Gilliam doesn't really have anyone better that he matches speed with (save double GK promotions from him and Franz. Which you should do, if you use both.) So he's bound to get good supports that keep his midgame alive. If you do, he's a highly competent axe guy with one strong hit.

Do yerself a favour, become a Hero. Gerik and Joshua will certainly promote before him, but after them his only competition is Ross, if he didn't become a Pirate, and Marisa, who is lol. So he's got a good chance at getting there. The Speed will keep him plausible for endgame, although his virtues are starting to fall through by then. However, if you do get him there, he is arguably the best candidate for Garm, and certainly a top contender.

Garcia, a generic Mighty Glacier who has defence to spare and one BIG hit. Preferably with a Steel Axe. He will be a reliable warrior early on, and with a little work a reliable warrior lategame too. A stellar combatant, so he gets a

6.5/10

I may be willing to drop this down by a half, but I don't think he merits the same value as Eph route Eirika XD

Next!

Edited April 25, 2010 by Furetchen

[Junkhead]

I don't see Garcia getting doubled by anything other than Swordmasters as a Hero, yet, I even doubt he gets doubled by most of them. As a Warrior...he's just missing on Swords and +2 Spd, not good, although he's getting that one big hit or simply doing massive damage thanks to that Str cap. I mean, it's not like mounted units or monsters (aside mauthedoogs) double him, SMs barely make an appearance, we see them mostly running around Ch 19.