Furetchen's Highly Opinionated and Probably Inaccurate Ratings

[Parrhesia]

I'm mostly getting the needstonotgetdoubled thing from seeing it somewhere in an argument between Hero and Warrior Garica.

I think myrms and mercs overall would often double (from what I can remember, they'd often have enough speed), the latter of which are always prevalent.

Edited April 25, 2010 by Furetchen

[Anouleth]

That +2 AS on Hero Garcia also allows him to double some unpromoted units and helps him double monsters. Many Wights in C20 hover around 8-9AS, so Warrior Garcia would need to be 20/15 to Hero Garcia's far more palatable 20/05. Maelduins are faster, but Hero Garcia can double the Steel Axe carriers. Cyclops have 12-14AS, which initially seems to be beyond Garcia irrespective of his promotion, but Garm puts Hero Garcia in range to ORKO them. Speedwing!Hero!Garcia doubles Elder Baels, and he can even double the slower ones without the Speedwing. Obviously Deathgoyles and Gwyllgis are a billion miles beyond Garcia, though.

Also, 20/05 Warrior Garcia has 11AS. This is doubled by C19 Swordmasters, Heroes, Rangers, and some Mage Knights, it doesn't double anything except Generals and Druids... and even against them he's embarassingly borderline.

[Junkhead]

Also, 20/05 Warrior Garcia has 11AS. This is doubled by C19 Swordmasters, Heroes, Rangers, and some Mage Knights, it doesn't double anything except Generals and Druids... and even against them he's embarassingly borderline.

Those are the enemies that most appear in Ch 19, looking at his Res...you won't even want to dare do that with him as a Hero. I mean, I actually do find this overrated, it's not like you see these enemies often.

[Rewjeo]

Knoll is, without a doubt, the best candidate for promoting. Yeah, Lute's better, but 20/0 Lute is maybe a 7 at this point, and promoted is ~8-8.5. Knoll unpromoted is, like, 1.5, and promotes to a ~5-6. He gets a lot more out of it, so he's promoting.

Also, Marisa.

[Junkhead]

That, too...Knoll's performace: It's pretty overrated. Why are you wasting a Master Seal on him when the only good use comes in this Chapter? I mean, it could be useful for Chapter 19 too, but it's just a waste otherwise, the only good use you get out of him is the Phantoms, but the only thing they do is become decoys that get killed in one hit to protect him, a bad unit. And why would you need decoys otherwise? You will be having strong characters by now.

[Rewjeo]

Again, Knoll gets more out of promoting than anyone else. Plus, you don't seem to understand the usefulness of his phantoms. Either that, or I'm overrating it. I don't think it's been thoroughly tested. Maybe when I have more time, I can continue my playthrough.

[Junkhead]

I do know the usefulness of the Phantoms, I've used them before, but since I'm not going for effiency (in my usual playthroughs) I take my time to train the characters I'm using, Knoll's phantoms come best in handy in Ch 15.

[Integrity]

Seconding Marisa next.

[Junkhead]

I'm going with the Marisa bandwagon, also. It's about time.

[Rewjeo]

I definitely agree that on a non-efficiency playthrough, phantoms lose a lot of usefulness.

[Junkhead]

Can you tell me their exactly useful use?

[Anouleth]

I definitely agree that on a non-efficiency playthrough, phantoms lose a lot of usefulness.

I can't say I ever found them particularly useful in efficiency. When it came to choosing between Saleh and Knoll for Endgame, I didn't have to think very hard.

[Parrhesia]

Really, all you get from promoting Knoll are distractions and E (or D?) Staves, and a unit who STILL can't fight.

I'll do Marisa (hur hur) in about eight hours. Anyways, I'll use this post as a plug for the GK runthrough.

[Junkhead]

Really, all you get from promoting Knoll are distractions and E (or D?) Staves, and a unit who STILL can't fight.

I'll do Marisa (hur hur) in about eight hours. Anyways, I'll use this post as a plug for the GK runthrough.

He gets an E, he needs other use than Phantoms, I see them as decoys or as units that do chip damage to later let others kill. Not very useful for a 6 or even a 5.

Lucky.

[Rewjeo]

Because phantoms couldn't EVER do ANYTHING. Like, make anyone invincible from at least one enemy, or have a huge attack range, or allow us to distract a specific, very threatening enemy. For example, Lyon/Morva/etc. can do a lot of damage to you, but, in the event that they do too much damage to someone, Knoll can make sure they don't attack on their phase. Knoll would be a lot better if Gleipner did effective damage. IIRC, he'd have, like, 63 ATK. Seriously, I think IS made dark magic so crappy in this game to prep us for no dark magic in PoR.

[Junkhead]

Because phantoms couldn't EVER do ANYTHING.

Being able to do something is not somerthing useful. You're pretty much wasting it on an early promotion that isn't worth it.

Like, make anyone invincible from at least one enemy, or have a huge attack range, or allow us to distract a specific, very threatening enemy. For example, Lyon/Morva/etc. can do a lot of damage to you, but, in the event that they do too much damage to someone, Knoll can make sure they don't attack on their phase.

I don't recall if the enemies AI will always make them easy prey, so I guess that should be able to save them. But what's so good of it with the many healers you have? Especially when two gain easy access to a Phychic staff, I doubt you're in trouble when you can heal a character from getting killed by a powerful enemy, and besides, Lyon and Morva don't move from their positions.

Knoll would be a lot better if Gleipner did effective damage. IIRC, he'd have, like, 63 ATK. Seriously, I think IS made dark magic so crappy in this game to prep us for no dark magic in PoR.

Yes he would, but with the ton of babying he requires...? We could have other characters that won't do as much damage, but actually reliable enough as to kill many enemies, they might as well double enemies with S rank tomes, since they aren't as heavy as Glepnir.

[Rewjeo]

But they CAN do useful things.

They are highest priority on Enemy Phase. And why do I care if someone doesn't get access to physics if I don't need them to thanks to phantoms? Plus we've already got Saleh, Moulder, Natasha, and maybe Artur who could already potentially use them.

As for Lyon/Morva: If someone is 2HKOd, you can attack without risk of death. Also, phantoms let you run past the dracozombies at endgame.

Okay, if Gleipner did effective damage and there was an efficient way to get Knoll to S Dark, he'd be a lot better.

[Junkhead]

Dracozombies are lol thanks to effective weapons and Bishops.

What sucks is that Knoll has that sole use one he promotes, and that's it, he's mediocre in combat, and healing is redundant.

[Anouleth]

Well, even so, Knoll takes such a hefty AS penalty that it's dangerous for him to equip Gleipnir.

Warp lets me run past the endgame dracozombies. So does Syrene rescue-dropping. So does any flier.

And your description of Phantoms as 'making 1 character invincible' is wrong. Phantoms distract 1 attack (their avoid is bad enough that you can't rely on them to dodge). That's it.

Besides, Lyon and Morva have enough attack that you should be killing them and/or seizing in 1 turn. You shouldn't let them get an enemy phase in.

[Integrity]

Morva? Lyon? Innes/Neimi/maybe!Gerik/maybe!Garcia/probablynot!Ross can SOLO Morva in a reasonable amount of time with no chance of being countered with a Longbow. Why do we need Phantoms for immobile bosses?

Dracozombies, maybe, except you fight two of them. ever. and they're completely without support.

Unless we're talking CC, that is.

[Junkhead]

It'd take forever with a Longbow, bot to mention it has low Hit too, just take Niddhog and feel the magic.

[Integrity]

Sure, but the argument was that the Phantoms could soak hits. Innes can 3RKO Morva with a Longbow moderately reliably if I recall correctly, and be totally impervious to counterattacks.

Or he could run in, fire Nidhogg twice, get danced for and healed, and do it again for a one turn kill. :P

EDIT: Point being, I'm agreeing with you.

Edited April 27, 2010 by Integrity

[dondon151]

Innes has 31 HP at base. Morva has 36 atk on NM (37 or 38 on HM IIRC) and ignores def. Innes needs to be at least --/9 to survive the NM version - being a promoted sniper, 8 levels is fairly difficult to get.

[Integrity]

Wut?

Assuming Eirika's mode, you're assuming that Innes can't get 8 levels in 10 chapters? Even Ephraim's, he only needs 5 in 5 chapters.

Especially given the ramping up of mobs' levels later (Rausten Court comes to mind, where he can pick off promoted units behind safe lines) that he can plink at, a used Innes will easily be --/9 by C20.

[dondon151]

Why are you stalling out chapter 20? Kill Riev and end the chapter quickly.